Ante up anti gunners...what will you allow for normal gun owners, what do you want?

[GaryDog]

Criminals don't obey laws? You think that life in prison for illegal possession of a machine gun isn't effective? How many crimes are being committed by criminals wielding machine guns do we suffer every day?

Or ever?

Save your bumper sticker responses.

How about we jail those actually committing crimes with firearms for around 25 years if used in a robbery, fifty years if you discharge the weapon during said robbery and get your affairs in order if you kill someone in a robbery?
That way we actually punish the ones committing the crimes and not the law abiding.

Certainly nothing wrong with that approach. But we're not doing that either.

We're not doing anything to address this problem because of the influence of those who won't abide any new efforts to control the acquisition and use of firearms.

Nothing else would be needed if we locked up criminals who use firearms for long sentences.
The statistics show it's a small percentage of the population that commit crimes over and over again.
Stop letting em out of prison and we'd see a dramatic drop in firearm related crime.

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

 

[Auld Phart]

They block efforts that would affect law abiding citizens as well as criminals.

Find me a link that shows them approving of straw purchases, felons or criminals owning firearms, back street sales, etc

They oppose background checks for ALL gun purchases. Most NRA members support it. If that's not proof to you, what is?

So do I.

I plan on giving my granddaughter, (19 ), a handgun in a week or so, with her fathers permission.

Under the ridiculous rule you want, I'd have to wait til she turns 21, so she can pass a background check

I have a number of other firearms I plan on giving to family members, or selling to friends at the gun range.

again, though I have known these people for years, your ridiculous rule would require to go to a local dealer, and pay to have a background check done.

So, I am INDEED against it

I plan to help my son buy a car. Under these ridiculous DMV rules, I have to wait until he's licensed, get the car registered, make sure it's insured, etc.

ABSURD! I should be able to give him whatever i want, RIGHT NOW!! WAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!

Go ahead, give it to him.

You don't need a license, insurance, or registration to drive it on your own property.

and driving, last time I looked at the Constitution, driving is not a right

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I'll indulge your wisecrack this one time. The lobbying efforts of the NRA is responsible for arms proliferation in this country and their ready availability.

If you don't like wisecracks, you might as well put me on ignore now, I use a lot of them.

Where did you get the impression that the NRA is behind the proliferation of firearms in this country?

What do they promote, in your opinion, that causes this?

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

No,the racket is liberals and their soft on crime approach because it happens to be minorities doing most of the killing.
The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

The main reason I dont own a fully automatic rifle is the cost.
You're looking at 15k for a halfway decent one not to mention the cost of ammo and licensing.

 

[Auld Phart]

If you don't like wisecracks, you might as well put me on ignore now, I use a lot of them.

Where did you get the impression that the NRA is behind the proliferation of firearms in this country?

What do they promote, in your opinion, that causes this?

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

 

[GaryDog]

They block efforts that would affect law abiding citizens as well as criminals.

Find me a link that shows them approving of straw purchases, felons or criminals owning firearms, back street sales, etc

They oppose background checks for ALL gun purchases. Most NRA members support it. If that's not proof to you, what is?

So do I.

I plan on giving my granddaughter, (19 ), a handgun in a week or so, with her fathers permission.

Under the ridiculous rule you want, I'd have to wait til she turns 21, so she can pass a background check

I have a number of other firearms I plan on giving to family members, or selling to friends at the gun range.

again, though I have known these people for years, your ridiculous rule would require to go to a local dealer, and pay to have a background check done.

So, I am INDEED against it

I plan to help my son buy a car. Under these ridiculous DMV rules, I have to wait until he's licensed, get the car registered, make sure it's insured, etc.

ABSURD! I should be able to give him whatever i want, RIGHT NOW!! WAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!

Go ahead, give it to him.

You don't need a license, insurance, or registration to drive it on your own property.

and driving, last time I looked at the Constitution, driving is not a right

Maybe it should be. Almost everyone in the country needs to drive in order to make a living. Almost no one in the country needs a privately-owned gun to make a living.

 

[Al Azar]

They block efforts that would affect law abiding citizens as well as criminals.

Find me a link that shows them approving of straw purchases, felons or criminals owning firearms, back street sales, etc

They oppose background checks for ALL gun purchases. Most NRA members support it. If that's not proof to you, what is?

So do I.

I plan on giving my granddaughter, (19 ), a handgun in a week or so, with her fathers permission.

Under the ridiculous rule you want, I'd have to wait til she turns 21, so she can pass a background check

I have a number of other firearms I plan on giving to family members, or selling to friends at the gun range.

again, though I have known these people for years, your ridiculous rule would require to go to a local dealer, and pay to have a background check done.

So, I am INDEED against it

You can be against anything you like. You don't need reason nor any logical or factual basis for what you like or dislike.

I'm not discussing personal likes and dislikes. I'm answering the OP's question with well-reasoned opinion.

 

[GaryDog]

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

I see, so a bunch of law-abiding folks registered their cars and had them seized?

You're getting hilariously stomped in this thread. At every turn.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

If you don't like wisecracks, you might as well put me on ignore now, I use a lot of them.

Where did you get the impression that the NRA is behind the proliferation of firearms in this country?

What do they promote, in your opinion, that causes this?

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Another ignorant analogy. Driving is not a constitutional right.

 

[Auld Phart]

How about we jail those actually committing crimes with firearms for around 25 years if used in a robbery, fifty years if you discharge the weapon during said robbery and get your affairs in order if you kill someone in a robbery?
That way we actually punish the ones committing the crimes and not the law abiding.

Certainly nothing wrong with that approach. But we're not doing that either.

We're not doing anything to address this problem because of the influence of those who won't abide any new efforts to control the acquisition and use of firearms.

Nothing else would be needed if we locked up criminals who use firearms for long sentences.
The statistics show it's a small percentage of the population that commit crimes over and over again.
Stop letting em out of prison and we'd see a dramatic drop in firearm related crime.

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

Lanza killed his mother to get one of her guns, the san bernadino couple got theirs from a straw buyer

 

[GaryDog]

Certainly nothing wrong with that approach. But we're not doing that either.

We're not doing anything to address this problem because of the influence of those who won't abide any new efforts to control the acquisition and use of firearms.

Nothing else would be needed if we locked up criminals who use firearms for long sentences.
The statistics show it's a small percentage of the population that commit crimes over and over again.
Stop letting em out of prison and we'd see a dramatic drop in firearm related crime.

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

Lanza killed his mother to get one of her guns, the san bernadino couple got theirs from a straw buyer

What was their criminal background.

Everyone is "law abiding" as you paint them....until they're not.

 

[Auld Phart]

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

I see, so a bunch of law-abiding folks registered their cars and had them seized?

You're getting hilariously stomped in this thread. At every turn.

Not by you.

You seem to be a straight man in a comedy duo.

you MIGHT want to reread the post I responded to

 

[GaryDog]

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

I see, so a bunch of law-abiding folks registered their cars and had them seized?

You're getting hilariously stomped in this thread. At every turn.

Not by you.

You seem to be a straight man in a comedy duo.

you MIGHT want to reread the post I responded to

I'm trying to find a parallel analogy to your absurd situation where law-abiding gun owners have their guns seized.

I can't find one. Because it doesn't exist.

 

[Al Azar]

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Another ignorant analogy. Driving is not a constitutional right.

Where in the constitution is registration prohibited?

 

[Auld Phart]

Nothing else would be needed if we locked up criminals who use firearms for long sentences.
The statistics show it's a small percentage of the population that commit crimes over and over again.
Stop letting em out of prison and we'd see a dramatic drop in firearm related crime.

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

Lanza killed his mother to get one of her guns, the san bernadino couple got theirs from a straw buyer

What was their criminal background.

Everyone is "law abiding" as you paint them....until they're not.

They are law abiding til they aren't.

Next time you walk down the street, try to figure out which people are honest, and which are criminals.

odds are, you'd be wrong 9 times out of 10

but what do you do about that 10th person, until they do something?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How about we jail those actually committing crimes with firearms for around 25 years if used in a robbery, fifty years if you discharge the weapon during said robbery and get your affairs in order if you kill someone in a robbery?
That way we actually punish the ones committing the crimes and not the law abiding.

Certainly nothing wrong with that approach. But we're not doing that either.

We're not doing anything to address this problem because of the influence of those who won't abide any new efforts to control the acquisition and use of firearms.

Nothing else would be needed if we locked up criminals who use firearms for long sentences.
The statistics show it's a small percentage of the population that commit crimes over and over again.
Stop letting em out of prison and we'd see a dramatic drop in firearm related crime.

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

You'll never stop all mass killings no matter what you do.
A large truck did a fine job not to long ago.
And the Orlando shooter was investigated by the feds for terrorist ties yet they did nothing. The San Bernardino couple were muslim terrorist and the wife was let into the country with no vetting.
How about we start complaining about our lax approach to the laws on the books?

 

[Auld Phart]

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

I see, so a bunch of law-abiding folks registered their cars and had them seized?

You're getting hilariously stomped in this thread. At every turn.

Not by you.

You seem to be a straight man in a comedy duo.

you MIGHT want to reread the post I responded to

I'm trying to find a parallel analogy to your absurd situation where law-abiding gun owners have their guns seized.

I can't find one. Because it doesn't exist.

You might want to expand you search into other countries

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

They block efforts that would affect law abiding citizens as well as criminals.

Find me a link that shows them approving of straw purchases, felons or criminals owning firearms, back street sales, etc

They oppose background checks for ALL gun purchases. Most NRA members support it. If that's not proof to you, what is?

So do I.

I plan on giving my granddaughter, (19 ), a handgun in a week or so, with her fathers permission.

Under the ridiculous rule you want, I'd have to wait til she turns 21, so she can pass a background check

I have a number of other firearms I plan on giving to family members, or selling to friends at the gun range.

again, though I have known these people for years, your ridiculous rule would require to go to a local dealer, and pay to have a background check done.

So, I am INDEED against it

I plan to help my son buy a car. Under these ridiculous DMV rules, I have to wait until he's licensed, get the car registered, make sure it's insured, etc.

ABSURD! I should be able to give him whatever i want, RIGHT NOW!! WAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!

Go ahead, give it to him.

You don't need a license, insurance, or registration to drive it on your own property.

and driving, last time I looked at the Constitution, driving is not a right

Maybe it should be. Almost everyone in the country needs to drive in order to make a living. Almost no one in the country needs a privately-owned gun to make a living.

You do know the reason for the 2nd amendment right?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

Law-abiding citizens don't fear background checks, arms registration and severe penalties for misuse.

Registration leads to confiscation.

Really? Where are all those cars and trucks confiscated over the past 100 years we've been registering those?

Police impound lots

I see, so a bunch of law-abiding folks registered their cars and had them seized?

You're getting hilariously stomped in this thread. At every turn.

Thats a pathetic analogy..

 

[Al Azar]

That only leaves about 18,000 suicides, 1,000 accidental gun deaths, etc. Still more than all of Europe combined. (You know, since we're back to "black lives don't matter" or "only thugs kill with guns").

But sure, it's just the bad guys. You gotta be delusional. We're a gun-crazy country that the rest of the world shakes its head at.

Show me some evidence that the average American gun owner uses their firearms to commit crimes.

Adam Lanza had no criminal record. Neither did the San Bernardino couple. Neither did the Orlando shooter.

Lanza killed his mother to get one of her guns, the san bernadino couple got theirs from a straw buyer

What was their criminal background.

Everyone is "law abiding" as you paint them....until they're not.

They are law abiding til they aren't.

Next time you walk down the street, try to figure out which people are honest, and which are criminals.

odds are, you'd be wrong 9 times out of 10

but what do you do about that 10th person, until they do something?

I care less about who criminals are than I do about what criminals with ready access to guns do.

 

[2aguy]

The problem with guns here, is the culture behind it. I was listening to an interview with a Norwegian on their gun culture.

Like Americans, many Norwegians own guns. But according to Seierstad, the culture of gun ownership is very different in the two countries. In Norway, for example, it's uncommon to see guns outside organized settings like gun clubs or during hunting season.


“Yes, there’s a high percentage of gun ownership in Norway," she says, "but those guns are used mainly one week in the year during the hunting of elk season ... the rest of the year it’s locked down and stored.”


Even US and Norwegian law enforcement have different approaches to firearms.


“The police has not been armed in Norway,” Seierstad says. “People in the US could say, ‘Well, isn’t that scary?’ Well when the police is not armed, the drug dealer is not armed, the criminals are not armed, because no one is armed.”

After Orlando, Americans and US lawmakers are arguing over whether to strengthen (or even weaken) gun regulations. But after the attacks in Oslo and Utoya, Norwegian law didn't change.


The Norwegian government did set up a committee that proposed tighter gun laws — including mandatory medical background checks, regular checks on weapon owners and better lists accounting for guns with lead ammunition — but none of these proposals went into effect.


Why? The reason was pretty simple.

“We had quite restrictive laws,” Seierstad explains. "We have very very few gun accidents and gun murders.”​

You don't see testosterone impaired idiots walking around like this:

In my mind common sense gun control would look at changing the culture as much as changing any laws. I'd have no problem with some sort of education course in safe use, legal issues etc before you can purchase gun. I'd also have no problem with having certain types of weapons banned, and the purchase of large amounts of weapons and ammunition causing a red flag to be raised. Universal background checks.

Our gun culture isn't a problem...we have 357,000,000 guns in private hands.......and in 2015 we had 586 accidental gun deaths.

We had 8,124 gun murders. Out of 357,000,000 privately held guns........do you realize how small a number that is in a country with 320,000,000 people? And 90% of those doing the shooting cannot legally buy, own or carry the guns....

Normal gun owners are not the problem....

Think about that.

Americans use guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack and to save lives...many times stopping mass shooters...........

The actual problem that we have is inner city criminals who have been raised for generations by single teenage mothers...creating young males with impulse control problems.......that is the problem....not gun owners or American gun culture.