Ante up anti gunners...what will you allow for normal gun owners, what do you want?

[Al Azar]

On the contrary, you've ignored it.

I suggest you take another look at post #56

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

Great deflection.

What does that have to do with the right to keep and bear arms?

Different topic. We're discussing regulating those arms.

 

[Al Azar]

On the contrary, you've ignored it.

I suggest you take another look at post #56

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

 

[2aguy]

You're serious? The NRA blocks every effort to keep firearms out of the hands of high-risk individuals. The more guns they can put in anyone's hands, the more everyone else feels they need protection from everyone else.

What a racket.

No,the racket is liberals and their soft on crime approach because it happens to be minorities doing most of the killing.
The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

No.....you arrest criminals when you catch them.....

Do you feel the same about computers...they are used for child porn, sex trafficking, identity theft, stealing national secrets, planning mass shootings, encouraging mass shootings, moving money for terrorists....

Do you see why we should limit access to computers to just cops and the military?

 

[2aguy]

I suggest you take another look at post #56

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

 

[Al Azar]

So if background checks and registration were free, you'd have no objection to them?

Voting is mentioned in our constitution six times. Arms are mentioned but once. Yet we must prove that we are eligible to vote. Why the discrepancy?

I am fine with background checks at gun stores......they should be free however.....background checks for private sales are another issue...they require gun registration .......and gun registration is always used to ban and confiscate guns...they did that in Germany, Britain and Australia........so gun registration..which does not even apply to actual criminals is a non starter....

What exactly do you think gun registration achieves anyway......mass shooters would register their guns, happily....since they plan their shootings 6 months to 2 years in advance....and criminals don't have to register their illegal guns...

So what do they do?

Again, any one of these steps alone is inadequate. Did you miss the third step, severe penalties for possession of a firearm not registered to the bearer?

Why.......say I am a law abiding citizen with no criminal record...why should I get penalized for owning a gun?

I am more than happy to lock up anyone using a gun in a crime....30 years.....

I am more than happy to lock up felons caught in mere possession of a gun...30 years....

But a law abiding person, with no criminal record, who is not using a gun to commit a crime...why do you want to punish them ?

Who brought up penalizing law-abiding citizens?

When you put a penalty on not registering a gun......which criminals do not have to do from the decision in Haynes v. United States.......

Make up your mind. Are we talking about law-abiding citizens or people who break the law by possessing unregistered firearms? Pick on and we'll discuss that.

 

[2aguy]

Why.......say I am a law abiding citizen with no criminal record...why should I get penalized for owning a gun?

I am more than happy to lock up anyone using a gun in a crime....30 years.....

I am more than happy to lock up felons caught in mere possession of a gun...30 years....

But a law abiding person, with no criminal record, who is not using a gun to commit a crime...why do you want to punish them ?

Who brought up penalizing law-abiding citizens?

If I have a gun that is not registered...having broken no law and committed no crime.......you want me punished. For something that is a Right under our Bill of Rights.....

You broke the law by not registering it. It's no different than breaking the law by driving without a license.

and the only reason it was a law is because you created it......otherwise there is no reason to register the gun as a law abiding gun owner....you specifically created a law, that does not apply to criminals and only puts the law abiding person at legal risk because they did not jump through your bureaucratic hoop....

And who will pay to register guns? Any payment is unconstitional under the 14th Amendment.....equal protection....poor people can't afford it...therfore it is not Constitutional. Just like Poll Taxes on the Right to vote.

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

I suggest you take another look at post #56

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

 

[Al Azar]

No,the racket is liberals and their soft on crime approach because it happens to be minorities doing most of the killing.
The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

Stop being so soft on crime.

Now it's devolved into ad hominem snipes?

You lose.

 

[2aguy]

I am fine with background checks at gun stores......they should be free however.....background checks for private sales are another issue...they require gun registration .......and gun registration is always used to ban and confiscate guns...they did that in Germany, Britain and Australia........so gun registration..which does not even apply to actual criminals is a non starter....

What exactly do you think gun registration achieves anyway......mass shooters would register their guns, happily....since they plan their shootings 6 months to 2 years in advance....and criminals don't have to register their illegal guns...

So what do they do?

Again, any one of these steps alone is inadequate. Did you miss the third step, severe penalties for possession of a firearm not registered to the bearer?

Why.......say I am a law abiding citizen with no criminal record...why should I get penalized for owning a gun?

I am more than happy to lock up anyone using a gun in a crime....30 years.....

I am more than happy to lock up felons caught in mere possession of a gun...30 years....

But a law abiding person, with no criminal record, who is not using a gun to commit a crime...why do you want to punish them ?

Who brought up penalizing law-abiding citizens?

When you put a penalty on not registering a gun......which criminals do not have to do from the decision in Haynes v. United States.......

Make up your mind. Are we talking about law-abiding citizens or people who break the law by possessing unregistered firearms? Pick on and we'll discuss that.

Law abiding citizens....registration is unConstitutonal......and creating a brand new bureaucratic hoop....that does nothing to stop crime...since criminals do not have to register their guns via Haynes v. United States....requiring law abiding people to do so is against the 14th Amendment.......as well as the 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination.

 

[Al Azar]

No,the racket is liberals and their soft on crime approach because it happens to be minorities doing most of the killing.
The vast majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens.

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

No.....you arrest criminals when you catch them.....

Do you feel the same about computers...they are used for child porn, sex trafficking, identity theft, stealing national secrets, planning mass shootings, encouraging mass shootings, moving money for terrorists....

Do you see why we should limit access to computers to just cops and the military?

Produce some homicide rates for computer misuse and I'll evaluate them.

 

[Al Azar]

Who brought up penalizing law-abiding citizens?

If I have a gun that is not registered...having broken no law and committed no crime.......you want me punished. For something that is a Right under our Bill of Rights.....

You broke the law by not registering it. It's no different than breaking the law by driving without a license.

and the only reason it was a law is because you created it......otherwise there is no reason to register the gun as a law abiding gun owner....you specifically created a law, that does not apply to criminals and only puts the law abiding person at legal risk because they did not jump through your bureaucratic hoop....

And who will pay to register guns? Any payment is unconstitional under the 14th Amendment.....equal protection....poor people can't afford it...therfore it is not Constitutional. Just like Poll Taxes on the Right to vote.

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

 

[2aguy]

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

No.....you arrest criminals when you catch them.....

Do you feel the same about computers...they are used for child porn, sex trafficking, identity theft, stealing national secrets, planning mass shootings, encouraging mass shootings, moving money for terrorists....

Do you see why we should limit access to computers to just cops and the military?

Produce some homicide rates for computer misuse and I'll evaluate them.

3,000 people on 9/11.....140 in paris.......84...in Nice...all accomplished with the support of computers...........and that is just the start.......computers are used to recruit for al queada and isis......

no need for civilians to have access to uncontrolled computers.

 

[G.T.]

2aguy talks about anti gun crap more than anti gunners talk about anti gun crap

 

[2aguy]

If I have a gun that is not registered...having broken no law and committed no crime.......you want me punished. For something that is a Right under our Bill of Rights.....

You broke the law by not registering it. It's no different than breaking the law by driving without a license.

and the only reason it was a law is because you created it......otherwise there is no reason to register the gun as a law abiding gun owner....you specifically created a law, that does not apply to criminals and only puts the law abiding person at legal risk because they did not jump through your bureaucratic hoop....

And who will pay to register guns? Any payment is unconstitional under the 14th Amendment.....equal protection....poor people can't afford it...therfore it is not Constitutional. Just like Poll Taxes on the Right to vote.

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

 

[Al Azar]

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

 

[2aguy]

2aguy talks about anti gun crap more than anti gunners talk about anti gun crap

Thanks.....I try.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

We have more people in jail than any country on earth, including India or China.

INDIA. OR. CHINA.

But please, preach more about how we need to jail more people in order to have the appropriate "hardness" against criminality.

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

Stop being so soft on crime.

Now it's devolved into ad hominem snipes?

You lose.

Ad hominem? When thugs are getting out of jail in 3 or 4 years for armed robbery there is a problem.
You commit armed robbery you should spend 25 years with no parole.

 

[Al Azar]

Your example of how you would feel inconvenienced is not persuasive.

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

 

[G.T.]

I think mental health checks could be a slippery slope, who knows but crazies are gunna cray in some way regardless. Lets just raise our kids right.

 

[Al Azar]

You broke the law by not registering it. It's no different than breaking the law by driving without a license.

and the only reason it was a law is because you created it......otherwise there is no reason to register the gun as a law abiding gun owner....you specifically created a law, that does not apply to criminals and only puts the law abiding person at legal risk because they did not jump through your bureaucratic hoop....

And who will pay to register guns? Any payment is unconstitional under the 14th Amendment.....equal protection....poor people can't afford it...therfore it is not Constitutional. Just like Poll Taxes on the Right to vote.

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.