Ante up anti gunners...what will you allow for normal gun owners, what do you want?

[2aguy]

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

Watch and learn.....

 

[2aguy]

and the only reason it was a law is because you created it......otherwise there is no reason to register the gun as a law abiding gun owner....you specifically created a law, that does not apply to criminals and only puts the law abiding person at legal risk because they did not jump through your bureaucratic hoop....

And who will pay to register guns? Any payment is unconstitional under the 14th Amendment.....equal protection....poor people can't afford it...therfore it is not Constitutional. Just like Poll Taxes on the Right to vote.

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.

3,000 people murdered on 9/11...computers were used to move money, communicate between the terrorists, and to buy the tickets for the killers.........

 

[Al Azar]

No need to jail more people. Increase the jail time for those who aren't getting the message.

Ref earlier mention of machine guns, the penalties for misuse, and the dearth of crimes with machine guns.

It's simple risk/reward calculus.

No.....gang members can't buy guns in the first place...any guns...they still get them...they use pistols because they are easy to conceal and carry and hide in their homes.......

And we now have so many in circulation, they're easy to steal.

See the problem?

Stop being so soft on crime.

Now it's devolved into ad hominem snipes?

You lose.

Ad hominem? When thugs are getting out of jail in 3 or 4 years for armed robbery there is a problem.
You commit armed robbery you should spend 25 years with no parole.

Agreed. In another thread I should tell you about my Major Crime/Minor Crime Theory of Criminal Justice.

 

[2aguy]

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

The Bill of Rights is about protections against the government....as Charles Cooke wrote in National Review..to think the Bill of Rights that defends individual liberties would give a right to the Government to control guns through a militia is a joke.....

 

[Al Azar]

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

Germany? What is your fascination with German history and what is its relevance to the issue in the US today? Is it this Trump fellow in the news that's got some of you thinking a lot about Germany?

If so, stop it.

 

[Al Azar]

I didn't create the law requiring licensing of drivers. We as a body created the law as a matter of public safety.

And there's no reason not to extend that into other areas of public safety.

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.

3,000 people murdered on 9/11...computers were used to move money, communicate between the terrorists, and to buy the tickets for the killers.........

I didn't see a single computer in the footage of the events that transpired.

 

[2aguy]

And here is Charles W. Cooke on the absurdity of the "only militia get guns" argument....

Of Course Hillary Wants to 'Abolish' the Second Amendment, by Charles C. W. Cooke, National Review

 

[Al Azar]

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

The Bill of Rights is about protections against the government....as Charles Cooke wrote in National Review..to think the Bill of Rights that defends individual liberties would give a right to the Government to control guns through a militia is a joke.....

It's not gun control through the militia. It's national defense and providing the justification for the arming members of the militia.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

Germany? What is your fascination with German history and what is its relevance to the issue in the US today? Is it this Trump fellow in the news that's got some of you thinking a lot about Germany?

If so, stop it.

Your trust in government is touching...
But I'll trust in the intelligence of the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights over some clod on the internet thanks.

 

[2aguy]

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

Germany? What is your fascination with German history and what is its relevance to the issue in the US today? Is it this Trump fellow in the news that's got some of you thinking a lot about Germany?

If so, stop it.

Germany registered guns in the 1920s using the same arguments that are now being used here in the United States.......and 10 years later the national socialists used those gun registration lists to disarm their political enemies and the Jews....and then marched 12 million Europeans into gas chambers....since the rest of Europe also disarmed their people...

In the 1990s.......during the Balkan war......unarmed civilians were mass murdered because they did not have guns to stop it.....I posted that thread this week too.....

mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide only happen to unarmed peoples.....

 

[2aguy]

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

The Bill of Rights is about protections against the government....as Charles Cooke wrote in National Review..to think the Bill of Rights that defends individual liberties would give a right to the Government to control guns through a militia is a joke.....

It's not gun control through the militia. It's national defense and providing the justification for the arming members of the militia.

Wrong....

As was observed in Heller’s majority opinion, the revisionists’ interpretation of the Second Amendment is that it protects the right of the people to join a state organization over which the federal government enjoys plenary power. In and of itself, this position is logically absurd and historically illiterate.

But it is also ridiculous on a practical basis. As is clear to anybody who has read the writings of both the colonists and the Founders, who has studied the jurists of the revolutionary era and beyond, who is familiar with the Dred Scott decision and the subsequent fallout, who has looked across the state constitutions, and who has followed the trajectory of the academic debate over the past 60-or-so years, Americans have enjoyed the right to keep and bear arms for all of their history.

Should Hillary get her way, that right would disappear (at least legally), and the government would be freed up to make any policy choice it wished — up to and including a total ban. Who can say with a straight face that this wouldn’t be “to abolish, essentially abolish the Second Amendment”? Who can claim without laughing that a reversal of Heller wouldn’t render the right a dead letter?

Read more at: Of Course Hillary Wants to 'Abolish' the Second Amendment, by Charles C. W. Cooke, National Review

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

The Bill of Rights is about protections against the government....as Charles Cooke wrote in National Review..to think the Bill of Rights that defends individual liberties would give a right to the Government to control guns through a militia is a joke.....

It's not gun control through the militia. It's national defense and providing the justification for the arming members of the militia.

Missed post 182 did ya?

 

[Al Azar]

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

Germany? What is your fascination with German history and what is its relevance to the issue in the US today? Is it this Trump fellow in the news that's got some of you thinking a lot about Germany?

If so, stop it.

Your trust in government is touching...
But I'll trust in the intelligence of the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights over some clod on the internet thanks.

It takes far more than intelligence to foresee the society created hundreds of years into the future when a Bill of Rights is prevented from keeping up with the times.

But, again, we're off-topic. We were discussing gun control, not the 2nd Amendment. The right to bear arms is alive and well and under-regulated, which is the subject of the thread.

 

[2aguy]

Except guns are a protected right.........there is no reason to not require a Poll Tax to vote...right? Or a Test to vote..right?

Oh....except for that pesky 14th Amendment...that whole equal protection.....the poor will be negatively impacted by registration fees........on a Right...so a non starter.

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.

3,000 people murdered on 9/11...computers were used to move money, communicate between the terrorists, and to buy the tickets for the killers.........

I didn't see a single computer in the footage of the events that transpired.

Computers enabled the killings.......not one gun was used to kill those people....computers were used to move the money, the terrorists, and to make the deaths happen.....dittos the attack in Nice......84 people murdered, hundreds wounded.....and though the man had a gun...the people were murdered with the truck...but he used a computer.......

 

[2aguy]

it is when it leads to confiscation of a right....also.......criminals do not have to register guns.......registering a gun violates our 5th Amendment protection against self incrimination........so you are wrong.

We registered millions of items in this country. How many of them have been since confiscated? When has anything ever been confiscated?

Where do you come up with these groundless fears?

Groundless....? Germany 1930s.....guns of political enemies of the socialists confiscated. Britain...after the rare mass shooting....banned and confiscated guns. Australia....confiscated guns.....the last 2 within the last 20 years.....

Mass murder, genocide and ethnic cleansing only happen to unarmed people...the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans in the 90s........only happened because the civilian populations were unarmed...I posted a thread about that this week.

Germany? What is your fascination with German history and what is its relevance to the issue in the US today? Is it this Trump fellow in the news that's got some of you thinking a lot about Germany?

If so, stop it.

Your trust in government is touching...
But I'll trust in the intelligence of the framers of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights over some clod on the internet thanks.

It takes far more than intelligence to foresee the society created hundreds of years into the future when a Bill of Rights is prevented from keeping up with the times.

But, again, we're off-topic. We were discussing gun control, not the 2nd Amendment. The right to bear arms is alive and well and under-regulated, which is the subject of the thread.

The 2nd Amendment is gun control......allowing individuals to control guns...not the government.

 

[Al Azar]

Fine. I'll submit an amendment to the Free College for Everyone bill to include free firearms registration.

Now you're on board?

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.

3,000 people murdered on 9/11...computers were used to move money, communicate between the terrorists, and to buy the tickets for the killers.........

I didn't see a single computer in the footage of the events that transpired.

Computers enabled the killings.......not one gun was used to kill those people....computers were used to move the money, the terrorists, and to make the deaths happen.....dittos the attack in Nice......84 people murdered, hundreds wounded.....and though the man had a gun...the people were murdered with the truck...but he used a computer.......

And so did airplanes, and I saw several of those. Those are both registered and highly regulated. But that only reduces the misuse substantially. Nothing can prevent all occurrences of misuse of any material object or technology. We can only minimize it through responsible regulation.

Which is what we're supposedly discussing.

 

[Auld Phart]

Why not?

It would affect every gun owner at some point in their lives, and their families after their deaths.

And I'm sure I'm not alone in being affected by the stop sign at the end of my street. Not just once or twice in my life, but every day.

The horror...

How many times does it have to be said?
Driving is not a Constitutional right.

Nor is registration of anything constitutionally prohibited.

Shall not be infringed.

The commander of your well-regulated militia will explain its application.

Don/t know much about the 2nd, I see

 

[2aguy]

you know.......that was proposed for a gun law in one of the states.......the Republicans wanted to exempt people under a certain income level from paying the fees for background checks, and other fees....the democrats voted it down..........one of the only exemptions for the poor they actively fought.

I await your documentation of that anecdotal report.

3,000 people murdered on 9/11...computers were used to move money, communicate between the terrorists, and to buy the tickets for the killers.........

I didn't see a single computer in the footage of the events that transpired.

Computers enabled the killings.......not one gun was used to kill those people....computers were used to move the money, the terrorists, and to make the deaths happen.....dittos the attack in Nice......84 people murdered, hundreds wounded.....and though the man had a gun...the people were murdered with the truck...but he used a computer.......

And so did airplanes, and I saw several of those. Those are both registered and highly regulated. But that only reduces the misuse substantially. Nothing can prevent all occurrences of misuse of any material object or technology. We can only minimize it through responsible regulation.

Which is what we're supposedly discussing.

And yet every mass shooting, every terrorist attack...had a computer involved in the planning and execution of the event....

 

[Auld Phart]

I think mental health checks could be a slippery slope, who knows but crazies are gunna cray in some way regardless. Lets just raise our kids right.

If they went by prescriptions, I wouldn't have been able to buy a firearm since the late 90s.

I was on version or Wellbutrin to curb smoking