Any REAL evidence that Russian weapons were used to down the Malaysian flight or not?

[dilloduck]

Russian separatists ARE Russian military. Where the fuck do you think they are getting their arms? Off fucking E Bay?

Where in the hell do you think the Ukraines got their weapons ?

Same place the thing is the missile was fired from terrority controlled by the seperatist not by the Ukraine military.

Budapest Memorandum

1.Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.
2.Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
3.Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
4.Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.
5.Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.
6.Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.[10]

What the hell was the US doing trying to influence Ukrainian politics ?

Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Camp]

Who will Russia decide to sell or give anti aircraft missiles to next? Obviously the Russians have decided the rules of international law regarding the sale or supplying of these weapons can be ignored by them. Those laws are for other countries, not Russia. Can North Korea now begin sales of these kinds of weapons? How about Iran or any one of a number of countries with "stan" at the end of their name?

 

[dilloduck]

Who will Russia decide to sell or give anti aircraft missiles to next? Obviously the Russians have decided the rules of international law regarding the sale or supplying of these weapons can be ignored by them. Those laws are for other countries, not Russia. Can North Korea now begin sales of these kinds of weapons? How about Iran or any one of a number of countries with "stan" at the end of their name?

I guess they can----just like the US can interfere with the internal politics of any country is feels like. Who cares what kind of agreement we signed ?

 

[Camp]

Who will Russia decide to sell or give anti aircraft missiles to next? Obviously the Russians have decided the rules of international law regarding the sale or supplying of these weapons can be ignored by them. Those laws are for other countries, not Russia. Can North Korea now begin sales of these kinds of weapons? How about Iran or any one of a number of countries with "stan" at the end of their name?

I guess they can----just like the US can interfere with the internal politics of any country is feels like. Who cares what kind of agreement we signed ?

Question is about specific kinds of weapons. Us started with giving stingers to Mujahadeen in Afghanistan to shoot down Russian helicopters and planes. Now Putin is escalating and taking this supplying of dangerous weapons to rebels and civil war freedom fighters to a new level. Will Mexican cartels soon be able to by Buk and Buk level anti aricraft weapons soon? Putin has arbitrarily decided to take arming of non government forces to a new level for selfish, temporary and self serving reasons.

 

[dilloduck]

Who will Russia decide to sell or give anti aircraft missiles to next? Obviously the Russians have decided the rules of international law regarding the sale or supplying of these weapons can be ignored by them. Those laws are for other countries, not Russia. Can North Korea now begin sales of these kinds of weapons? How about Iran or any one of a number of countries with "stan" at the end of their name?

I guess they can----just like the US can interfere with the internal politics of any country is feels like. Who cares what kind of agreement we signed ?

Question is about specific kinds of weapons. Us started with giving stingers to Mujahadeen in Afghanistan to shoot down Russian helicopters and planes. Now Putin is escalating and taking this supplying of dangerous weapons to rebels and civil war freedom fighters to a new level. Will Mexican cartels soon be able to by Buk and Buk level anti aricraft weapons soon? Putin has arbitrarily decided to take arming of non government forces to a new level for selfish, temporary and self serving reasons.

Naturally that is your opinion. Why do you think he resorted to these tactics IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE WEST INTERFERED WITH UKRAINIAN POLITICS ?????

Arbitrarily my ass.

 

[g4racer]

Wake up people, wake up. Look at it as the right have arms on a world level. Is the right now saying that they want gun control for the world except for them? Chances are the weapon was made in Russia. What is the chance it was made in the US? We have been supplying weapons all over the world for decades and US made weapons now exist on both sides.
We love war, we get to wave the flag and talk about how righteous we are and the good we are doing. We lack honesty and ethics; but make up for it with greed.

 

[Politico]

It doesn't matter if Russian weapons were used.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Googling around, seems to be diminishing claims Russia had any direct involvement. Which makes sense. During the Cold War they rarely did anything directly so much as act through proxies (same as the US did.) So while they may have provided the weaponry, someone else pushed the launch button. But then blaming Russia for that is akin to blaming gun manufacturers in the US every time some nut uses one of their firearms in a crime. The button-pushers are responsible, not the weapon makers or even suppliers. US is the biggest arm dealer on this planet, are we then responsible for every use of those weapons?

 

[zeke]

I also want to point out that NO ONE answered with a simple "NO"

stupid fucking thread. Like anyone sitting on their ass (including you) posting on a message board has ANY ability to tell you wtf it is you want to know.

 

[pvsi]

It doesn't matter if Russian weapons were used.

Right. But even that claim has not been proven

 

[g4racer]

I'm curious as to what the thread starter considers evidence?

Why all this defending of the Russians online anyway (across the web)?

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/366750-beware-of-russian-propoganda.html

I don't see anyone defending Russia. I do see that other options exist with a US manufactured weapon being second on the list. I don't see that the US has the image of being the good guys anymore.
We have laws against torture so to get around them we sub contract that aspect of illegal activates and put it on foreign soil it is still not legal. If we supply weapons to 1/2 the world, with many being more corrupt than we are, what are the chance of them getting into the wrong hands?

 

[Peach]

Eyewitness evidence:

What happened? The day Flight 17 was downed

A Buk missile was moving through town:

It had been a noisy day in this eastern Ukrainian town, residents recounted. Plenty of military equipment was moving through. But still it was hard to miss the bulky missile system, also known as a Buk M-1. It left deep tread marks in the asphalt as it rumbled by in a small convoy.

The vehicles stopped in front of journalists from The Associated Press. A man wearing unfamiliar fatigues, speaking with a distinctive Russian accent, checked to make sure they weren't filming. The convoy then moved on, destination unknown in the heart of eastern Ukraine's pro-Russia rebellion.

Three hours later, people six miles (10 kilometers) west of Snizhne heard loud noises.

And then they saw pieces of twisted metal — and bodies— fall from the sky.

The rebel leadership in Donetsk has repeatedly and publicly denied any responsibility for the downing of Flight 17.

Sergei Kavtaradze, a spokesman for rebel leader Alexander Borodai, repeated to the AP on Friday that no rebel units had weapons capable of shooting that high, and said any suggestions to the contrary are part of an information war aimed at undermining the insurgents' cause.

Nevertheless, the denials are increasingly challenged by accounts of residents, the observations of journalists on the ground, and the statements of one rebel official. The Ukrainian government has also provided purported communications intercepts that it says show rebel involvement in the shoot-down.

A highly placed rebel, speaking to the AP this week, admitted that rebels were responsible. He said a unit based in the hometown of ousted President Viktor Yanukovych, made up of both Russians and Ukrainians, was involved in the firing of an SA-11 from near Snizhne. The rebel, who has direct access to the inner circle of the insurgent leadership in Donetsk, said that he could not be named because he was contradicting the rebels' official line.

The rebels believed they were targeting a Ukrainian military plane, this person said. Instead, they hit the passenger jet flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur. All 298 people aboard were killed.

 

[Clementine]

I ask moderators to close this thread after half an hour if no evidence is posted, I am not interested in CNN type evidence along the lines of "But the world community is pointing all fingers at Putin" - does anyone have any REAL evidence that Russian weapons were used to down the Malaysian flight or not?

Liberals don't need evidence when it's them making the accusations.

I haven't read about any evidence being discovered yet.

 

[Camp]

MH17 crash: Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta prints front-page asking Netherlands for 'forgiveness' - Europe - World - The Independent

Not everyone is being blinded by the propaganda ministry. Circumstantial evidence is overwhelming and even Russians know their leader and military have blood on their hands.

 

[RWHeathenGamer]

we have satellites that can watch the Rooskies jerking off in their foxholes....we know all we need to know.

Right on the money, the US Government has the satellite photos. If they proved russian complicity or implicated the separatists they would have made them public already.

 

[pvsi]

MH17 crash: Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta prints front-page asking Netherlands for 'forgiveness' - Europe - World - The Independent

That is NOT evidence. NEXT.

 

[Peach]

MH17 crash: Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta prints front-page asking Netherlands for 'forgiveness' - Europe - World - The Independent

Not everyone is being blinded by the propaganda ministry. Circumstantial evidence is overwhelming and even Russians know their leader and military have blood on their hands.

The Russians are a strong, basically good people, they have been abused too long; Putin is only the last in a string of bad leaders. Gorbachev is missed.

 

[pvsi]

we have satellites that can watch the Rooskies jerking off in their foxholes....we know all we need to know.

Right on the money, the US Government has the satellite photos. If they proved russian complicity or implicated the separatists they would have made them public already.

The question here is why is Britain not releasing black box contents all this time, and why did Ukrainian Kiev Authorities not release air traffic control information as requested by Russians. All eyes on axis of democracy which bombed themselves on 9:11 just so they could start the wars in the middle east - ALL FOR PROFIT

 

[pvsi]

The Russians are a strong, basically good people, they have been abused too long; Putin is only the last in a string of bad leaders. Gorbachev is missed.

Once in a while your leaders say what they mean:

 

[NotfooledbyW]

So......how exactly do you sneak a missile in that is the size of a telephone pole? Plus it's launch truck, AND radar control track? No matter if it was Buk or an SA-2 Guideline from the 1960's, there is NO doubt that the missile that brought them down was of Russian origin.

"no doubt" ​

Where have we heard those two words before?

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." President Bush announcing the imminent full scale invasion of Iraq on March 17, 2003.

No one had to 'sneak' a missile in from Russia into Eastern Ukraine. The Ukrainian Army has them. They abandoned and lost perhaps up to a few when the Rebels forced them to abandon a base in June. The Ukrainians clamed to have rendered them inoperable. But we'd have to take the word of the same Ukrainian officials that participated in the violent mob overthrow and coup d'tat of President Yanukovich last February with US and EU backing.

So there is still plenty of doubt about this. Russian 'manufactured make and model' perhaps "YES"... But of Russian "Origin" ... There's no evidence for that as of yet. The origin could have come from Ukraine's inventory that they abandoned.



Here is an interesting line just in from AP through a link from the Army Times:

U.S. and Ukrainian officials say the plane was shot down by a missile from rebel territory, most likely by mistake.

Ukraine launches offensive to retake Donetsk Jul. 26, 2014 - 12:26PM
Ukraine launches offensive to retake Donetsk | Army Times | armytimes.com



It is interesting that 'Ukrainian Officials' are joining US officials int using the phrase, "by mistake". I believe Ukraine's original position was that rebels are terrorists and shot the passenger plane down because that is what terrorists do.

There appears to be some softening of the Ukrainian 'Chocolate' King's position on what happened.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian shelling and bombing of civilians in Donetsk continues for what purpose who knows.

And will the Ukrainians run out of money to keep bombing Donetsk and trying to take it away from the Russian Speaking citizens who live there?

Yesterday's news... The February Maidan Coup government in Kiev has collapsed:

Poroshenko pledged wide government and electoral reforms when sworn into office last month, but many members of parliament are a holdover from the era of ousted president Viktor Yanukovych and are considered resistant to reforms and the loss of influence.

Nevertheless, Yatsenyuk’s resignation threw the government into disarray at a critical juncture.

Finance Minister Oleksandr Shlapak warned parliament Thursday that the military was swiftly running out of money to pay for its offensive in the east, where troops are seeking to regain control of rebel-held territory around Donetsk and Luhansk.

“As of Aug. 1, we’ll have nothing to pay the military,” Shlapak said, according to the Interfax-Ukraine news agency, as he urged parliament to increase tax revenue.

The immediate trigger for Yatsenyuk’s resignation was the decision by the Svoboda and Udar parties earlier Thursday to pull out of the coalition government, which took over five months ago after Yanukovych was driven out of office by sustained protests.

Party leaders said their intention was to force early elections.

But the collapse of the coalition, Yatsenyuk said, means that parliament would be politically hobbled as it tries to pass crucial laws on matters such as the military budget and uncertain energy supplies.

“Who wants to go to elections and simultaneously vote for unpopular laws?” he said in announcing his resignation.

Friday, July 25, 2014 Ukraine’s Prime Minister Resigns As Coalition Falls Apart

Kiev Ukraine News Blog: Ukraine?s Prime Minister Resigns As Coalition Falls Apart