Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

[Redfish]

does that logic apply to the black panthers and Farrakhan? they both preach hate.

The actual black panthers? Or the boogeyman that conservatives have made up, where they show pictures of the same ONE guy at the same ONE polling station over and over for 3 elections over 4 years?

both

What systematic crimes to terrorize people have the black panther's committed? Specifically. And try and pick something that's occured since hate crime laws came into effect.

that group and Farrakhan (who you carefully left out) have advocated the murder of white people based on skin color, the murder of cops based on being cops. the murder of republicans based on being republicans.

those groups are advocating hate crimes, should that be punished?

Lately?

Yes, Farrakhan said exactly that last week.

 

[SwimExpert]

If it's wrong to do to your neighbor's wife, it's certainly wrong to do to your own wife. The whole category of "domestic violence" needs to go.

So, the same thing should be said of children, right? Abusing your own child should be no different than abusing your neighbor's child. But that then also requires that actions against your neighbor's child be no different than actions against your own child.

So what happens when someone takes it upon themselves to give the neighbor's child a spanking?

 

[Kosh]

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

what about a non-hate crime murder? different parole rules? Why?

I could snap and kill a neighbor. I might get out in twenty. A hate crime should get more

Why? what if you are white and the neighbor you kill when you snap is black? is that a worse crime than if he was white?

Not a hate crime. Find swasticas in my home its a hate crime. Or confederate flag.

See it always about the far left narratives!

It is never about justice, just to silence those that do not agree with the far left!

 

[Redfish]

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

what about a non-hate crime murder? different parole rules? Why?

I could snap and kill a neighbor. I might get out in twenty. A hate crime should get more

Why? what if you are white and the neighbor you kill when you snap is black? is that a worse crime than if he was white?

Not a hate crime. Find swasticas in my home its a hate crime. Or confederate flag.

so if you collect WW2 or civil war memorabilia you are committing a hate crime?

WTF is wrong with you libs? has the defective liberal gene completely destroyed your brains?

 

[Skylar]

The actual black panthers? Or the boogeyman that conservatives have made up, where they show pictures of the same ONE guy at the same ONE polling station over and over for 3 elections over 4 years?

both

What systematic crimes to terrorize people have the black panther's committed? Specifically. And try and pick something that's occured since hate crime laws came into effect.

that group and Farrakhan (who you carefully left out) have advocated the murder of white people based on skin color, the murder of cops based on being cops. the murder of republicans based on being republicans.

those groups are advocating hate crimes, should that be punished?

Lately?

Yes, Farrakhan said exactly that last week.

Can you quote him?

 

[sealybobo]

To make sure they don't get out early. We all see the justice system is messed up. Rapists and killers get out and repeat offend. With hate crimes you assure someone will never get out.

A perfect example is that white kid who shot up that black church. I could see in the past a guy like that may be getting out after 20 or so years for good behavior. Maybe with a hate crime law slapped on him that I was sure he never ever gets out.

Why do you have a problem slapping a hate crime law on someone?

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

 

[Redfish]

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

what about a non-hate crime murder? different parole rules? Why?

I could snap and kill a neighbor. I might get out in twenty. A hate crime should get more

Why? what if you are white and the neighbor you kill when you snap is black? is that a worse crime than if he was white?

Not a hate crime. Find swasticas in my home its a hate crime. Or confederate flag.

See it always about the far left narratives!

It is never about justice, just to silence those that do not agree with the far left!

exactly, this is all about forcing their PC agenda on everyone by force of law.

BTW, the earth is warming, run for the hills, the oceans are going to boil unless we stop driving SUVs.

 

[Kosh]

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

See how the far left wants people that they hate to never get out of prison, nor do they believe that they can change..

Another far left drone wanting to punish others that do not follow the far left religion..

 

[Redfish]

both

What systematic crimes to terrorize people have the black panther's committed? Specifically. And try and pick something that's occured since hate crime laws came into effect.

that group and Farrakhan (who you carefully left out) have advocated the murder of white people based on skin color, the murder of cops based on being cops. the murder of republicans based on being republicans.

those groups are advocating hate crimes, should that be punished?

Lately?

Yes, Farrakhan said exactly that last week.

Can you quote him?

here's an older one, I post the latest when I find a good link to it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1140758/Louis-Farrakhan-delivers-fiery-speech-Ferguson.html

 

[SwimExpert]

Hate crimes are nothing but bullshit.

Murder is murder and it doesn't make one fucking difference whether you hated those you killed or not.

Murder is murder.

Nearly all crimes exist in degrees, and almost every serious crime can meet the definition of a lesser crime. Taking murder as an example, it's already assault. Assault is assault.

I doubt that anyone would agree that murder should be reduced to the same treatment as assault. And that being so, we all seem to agree that criminal actions can and do have degrees of severity based. Even in retaining a distinct category for murder, there are generally three separate degrees of severity. So in fact, murder is not simply murder.

 

[Redfish]

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

that is up to the judge and the jury. They set the sentence based on the facts of the case.

lets try this: lets assume you are black

1. you kill a white guy to steal his money
2. you kill the same guy because you hate whites

both crimes are done with exactly the same weapon in exactly the same way, you didn't know the guy before killing him.

Should you get a longer sentence for 2 ? why?

 

[Redfish]

Hate crimes are nothing but bullshit.

Murder is murder and it doesn't make one fucking difference whether you hated those you killed or not.

Murder is murder.

Nearly all crimes exist in degrees, and almost every serious crime can meet the definition of a lesser crime. Taking murder as an example, it's already assault. Assault is assault.

I doubt that anyone would agree that murder should be reduced to the same treatment as assault. And that being so, we all seem to agree that criminal actions can and do have degrees of severity based. Even in retaining a distinct category for murder, there are generally three separate degrees of severity. So in fact, murder is not simply murder.

true, and the emotion of hate can be present in a murder of any degree. Why does that emotion matter?

 

[sealybobo]

I think they are dumb... I mean, take murder for instance... we've already established that motive matters.

yes, motive, like premeditation vs accidental homicide. But punishing thoughts is wrong. The crime should be punished, not the thoughts of the murderer.

If I murder my neighbor in a fight that's different than if I murder him after robbing him.

Scott Peterson got the death penalty for murdering his pregnant wife. Why? He should have just got life like every other murderer.

 

[sealybobo]

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

that is up to the judge and the jury. They set the sentence based on the facts of the case.

lets try this: lets assume you are black

1. you kill a white guy to steal his money
2. you kill the same guy because you hate whites

both crimes are done with exactly the same weapon in exactly the same way, you didn't know the guy before killing him.

Should you get a longer sentence for 2 ? why?

Yes because its a hate crime.

Do shop lifters go to prison like Bernie Madoff?

 

[Iceweasel]

There are additional penalties for killing children or cops. OP's logic dictates these must go as well.

Wrong. Cop killing is an attack on the law enforcement system. They are doing their jobs and killing them puts undo pressure on the whole system. It has zip to do with hate.

Irrelevant. The fact is that the law creates a special class of crime based on the identity of these types of victims. I think Seawytch stretches a tad far when she says that the OP's logic requires that they be eliminated along with hate crimes (the OP suggests hate crime legislation is unconstitutional and that does not necessarily follow, but then again I didn't see the OP justify that position either). But her point is valid in showing that there are other examples where the law elevates some crimes based on the identity of the victim.

That then leaves us with the question as to when and why it is acceptable for the law to elevate the severity of an already criminal act based on the victim's identity. Happy to hear your thoughts on that.

But yeah, of course the law elevates the crime in the case of some individuals. That's what the law is. That's not in question. What's in question is why if a guy killed a black man because he hated everybody should get a lighter sentence than a man that hated black people. Or why killing a white man wouldn't be as bad. That calls for the operation of someone's mind by people that only know a little about him and judging his soul instead of just the actions.

 

[Redfish]

I think they are dumb... I mean, take murder for instance... we've already established that motive matters.

yes, motive, like premeditation vs accidental homicide. But punishing thoughts is wrong. The crime should be punished, not the thoughts of the murderer.

If I murder my neighbor in a fight that's different than if I murder him after robbing him.

Scott Peterson got the death penalty for murdering his pregnant wife. Why? He should have just got life like every other murderer.

yes,premeditation makes the difference. you could hate your neighbor in either case and it should make no difference to your sentence.

 

[Kosh]

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

that is up to the judge and the jury. They set the sentence based on the facts of the case.

lets try this: lets assume you are black

1. you kill a white guy to steal his money
2. you kill the same guy because you hate whites

both crimes are done with exactly the same weapon in exactly the same way, you didn't know the guy before killing him.

Should you get a longer sentence for 2 ? why?

Yes because its a hate crime.

Do shop lifters go to prison like Bernie Madoff?

More horrid analogies by the far left drones!

See they want anything that is not in the scope of the far left religion to be a "hate crime"..

Yet these irony impaired drones hate anything that is not far left and thinks they should be exempt..

 

[Iceweasel]

So you far left drones do not believe people can change!

Another example why the far left should not be in charge of anything!

If you commit a hate crime I don't care if you've changed. Oh fuck off stupid. Obama should let every murderer off based on your position.

what about a non-hate crime murder? different parole rules? Why?

I could snap and kill a neighbor. I might get out in twenty. A hate crime should get more

Why? what if you are white and the neighbor you kill when you snap is black? is that a worse crime than if he was white?

Not a hate crime. Find swasticas in my home its a hate crime. Or confederate flag.

Exactly. and that's the problem. You are not god, you can't judge souls.

 

[SwimExpert]

Or somebody that believes in our US Constitution where all citizens are supposed be treated equally under the law.

Hate crime legislation does not violate equal protection. If I was subject to prosecution for hate crimes, but you were not, based on the same actions, that would be a violation of equal protection. Or, if I were required to produce a burden of proof in defense of a hate crimes charge, while your own defense required the state to prove a hate crime beyond reasonable doubt, then that would be a violation of equal protection. Hate crime legislation makes it a greater crime to commit a criminal deed because of the victim's race, religion, gender, etc. There are no specifics, so each religion, race, gender, etc is included. It's just as much of a hate crime to assault a person because he is black as it is to do so because he's white. If a white person assaults a white person out of hatred for white people, that's a hate crime too.

 

[Redfish]

See the far left just want hate crimes to label someone and actually not really do anything!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

Then why do you care?

The purpose of hate crimes is to deter people from commuting them. Stop preying on old black gay Jews.

Exactly as I posted, the far left wants it as a label and for no other reason!

Another far left religious narrative shot down!

To make sure you don't walk or get out early.

Do you object to some murderers getting life and some life wo the possibility of parole? The circumstances matter

that is up to the judge and the jury. They set the sentence based on the facts of the case.

lets try this: lets assume you are black

1. you kill a white guy to steal his money
2. you kill the same guy because you hate whites

both crimes are done with exactly the same weapon in exactly the same way, you didn't know the guy before killing him.

Should you get a longer sentence for 2 ? why?

Yes because its a hate crime.

Do shop lifters go to prison like Bernie Madoff?

you are really struggling with this aren't you? shop lifting is a misdemeanor, Madoff committed a felony.

in my question, in both cases you are a murderer and the victim is dead. The crime is the same and should get the same penalty.