Are "Hate Crime" Laws Constitutional?

[Skylar]

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Hold on. Terrorism is constitutional! Who cares what the terrorists motives are , only their actions . We can now throw out all those terror laws .

Terrorism is an act of some sort. Who called for not prosecuting crimes?

Wrong . Terrorism is a motive .

That's an interesting argument. As there is a distinction. The motivation in that case would matter.

Well shit. Now I have to think again.

 

[martybegan]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

I agree. Murder is murder no matter the reason.

This hate crime bullshit is just that. Bullshit. PC bullshit.

I think the rationale of hate crimes is....problematic. As it tries to glean the thoughts of a person. With someone put in the situation of trying to prove they didn't *think* something. Which is a tad too orwellian for my taste.

In my opinion, the only time motivation should come into play is when determining if someone intended to do something. As intent is significant in determining the severity of a crime.

Agreed. For things like murder mental state plays, and motive plays, but going beyond that just seems to be overkill.

Using an asinine example, what is the difference between a guy who blows up a Taco Bell because he hates Tacos, and a guy who blows up a Taco bell because he hates mexicans?

 

[Skylar]

The distinction might be one of organization. Acts of terror are usually associated with enacting a larger goal of some group. While hate crimes tend to be individual. The larger goals of a group are more objectively verifiable. Making for a less 'prove you didn't think this' scenario.

 

[Skylar]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

I agree. Murder is murder no matter the reason.

This hate crime bullshit is just that. Bullshit. PC bullshit.

I think the rationale of hate crimes is....problematic. As it tries to glean the thoughts of a person. With someone put in the situation of trying to prove they didn't *think* something. Which is a tad too orwellian for my taste.

In my opinion, the only time motivation should come into play is when determining if someone intended to do something. As intent is significant in determining the severity of a crime.

Agreed. For things like murder mental state plays, and motive plays, but going beyond that just seems to be overkill.

Using an asinine example, what is the difference between a guy who blows up a Taco Bell because he hates Tacos, and a guy who blows up a Taco bell because he hates mexicans?

Mexicans can feel fear. And if the goal is to run mexicans out of a neighborhood or country by 'making examples', the harm could be far more widespread.

There is a distinction. The question is, should the distinction matter. I'm on the fence. As the terrorism argument is a reasonably compelling one. The motivation makes the difference. I'm much more comfortable with terrorism charges based on motivation than I am say, someone in a fist fight being charged with a hate crime.

I'm not entirely sure why. I think it has to do with organization and objective goals. But its still fermenting.

 

[sealybobo]

H.Res.569 - Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.114th Congress (2015-2016)

...

Text - H.Res.569 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.

...

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Well for now we do care so deal

 

[Timmy]

As a society we judge certain motives to be more heinous .

If you think about it, hate crimes and terrorism are very similar .

You honestly think that spray painting "lakers suck " on the side of a church is the same as painting "Christians suck" ? They should both be treated as petty vandalism ?

 

[Skylar]

As a society we judge certain motives to be more heinous .

If you think about it, hate crimes and terrorism are very similar .

I don't. Terrorism has an overarcing goal. Its part of a larger plan, an affirmed affiliation and ideology trying to impose a specific agenda. Its essentially an act of asymmetrical warfare.

Hate crimes are just a dude.

 

[sealybobo]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

I agree. Murder is murder no matter the reason.

This hate crime bullshit is just that. Bullshit. PC bullshit.

It should be a hate crime if a random black kills a random white too then huh? I would agree.

But not all murders are equal. For example the white guy who shot the blacks in church was a hate crime but the shooter who was defending the babies was different.

The San Bernardino shooters was a hate crime so was the Boston bombers.

 

[Timmy]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

How can you have different degrees of murder? It's all the same, that's your argument . A dead body = murder = death penalty in every case .

because you have different circumstances. Killing your wife and her lover in a fit of rage when you catch them in the act is Murder 2. Killing them 2 weeks later is Murder 1. Why should a person's hate/not hate mental state come into play?

You are contradicting yourself . First you say "murder is murder" then you go on making distinctions to change that based on what the persons mental state and thinking are .

Why should it matter if you kill your wife in the act of cheating , or a week later ? Murder is murder .

 

[martybegan]

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

I agree. Murder is murder no matter the reason.

This hate crime bullshit is just that. Bullshit. PC bullshit.

I think the rationale of hate crimes is....problematic. As it tries to glean the thoughts of a person. With someone put in the situation of trying to prove they didn't *think* something. Which is a tad too orwellian for my taste.

In my opinion, the only time motivation should come into play is when determining if someone intended to do something. As intent is significant in determining the severity of a crime.

Agreed. For things like murder mental state plays, and motive plays, but going beyond that just seems to be overkill.

Using an asinine example, what is the difference between a guy who blows up a Taco Bell because he hates Tacos, and a guy who blows up a Taco bell because he hates mexicans?

Mexicans can feel fear. And if the goal is to run mexicans out of a neighborhood or country by 'making examples', the harm could be far more widespread.

There is a distinction. The question is, should the distinction matter. I'm on the fence. As the terrorism argument is a reasonably compelling one. The motivation makes the difference. I'm much more comfortable with terrorism charges based on motivation than I am say, someone in a fist fight being charged with a hate crime.

I'm not entirely sure why. I think it has to do with organization and objective goals. But its still fermenting.

Menacing is Menacing, property damage is property damage. Prosecute the crime, not the ideas.

 

[Skylar]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

How can you have different degrees of murder? It's all the same, that's your argument . A dead body = murder = death penalty in every case .

because you have different circumstances. Killing your wife and her lover in a fit of rage when you catch them in the act is Murder 2. Killing them 2 weeks later is Murder 1. Why should a person's hate/not hate mental state come into play?

You are contradicting yourself . First you say "murder is murder" then you go on making distinctions to change that based on what the persons mental state and thinking are .

In terms of the severity of the crime, if they intended to do it matters. WHY they intended to do it, not so much.

The distinction is between accident, heat of the moment, or premeditation. With each representing a far different danger to society.

 

[martybegan]

I would just elevate the punishment for all crimes, and make calling said crime a hate crime moot.

Murder is murder.

You are wrong . Motive is the base of almost all our crimes .

Murder is not murder . There's different degrees, and even justifiable homicide .

If you shoot a robber in your house , you get the death penalty ?? After all you murdered him.

How about drink driving death? Death penalty !?

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

How can you have different degrees of murder? It's all the same, that's your argument . A dead body = murder = death penalty in every case .

because you have different circumstances. Killing your wife and her lover in a fit of rage when you catch them in the act is Murder 2. Killing them 2 weeks later is Murder 1. Why should a person's hate/not hate mental state come into play?

You are contradicting yourself . First you say "murder is murder" then you go on making distinctions to change that based on what the persons mental state and thinking are .

Why should it matter if you kill your wife in the act of cheating , or a week later ? Murder is murder .

You are confusing motive with viewpoint.

So in the case of shooting the wife and lover, if the lover is a black dude, and the shooter hates blacks, he should be punished more severely?

 

[Skylar]

Try to actually read into my statement, instead of drive by misunderstanding it.

Yes, there are different degrees of murder, but why make it a difference between planning to kill a guy (murder 1) for his money vs. planning to kill a guy because he is black? Murder 1 is Murder 1.

I agree. Murder is murder no matter the reason.

This hate crime bullshit is just that. Bullshit. PC bullshit.

I think the rationale of hate crimes is....problematic. As it tries to glean the thoughts of a person. With someone put in the situation of trying to prove they didn't *think* something. Which is a tad too orwellian for my taste.

In my opinion, the only time motivation should come into play is when determining if someone intended to do something. As intent is significant in determining the severity of a crime.

Agreed. For things like murder mental state plays, and motive plays, but going beyond that just seems to be overkill.

Using an asinine example, what is the difference between a guy who blows up a Taco Bell because he hates Tacos, and a guy who blows up a Taco bell because he hates mexicans?

Mexicans can feel fear. And if the goal is to run mexicans out of a neighborhood or country by 'making examples', the harm could be far more widespread.

There is a distinction. The question is, should the distinction matter. I'm on the fence. As the terrorism argument is a reasonably compelling one. The motivation makes the difference. I'm much more comfortable with terrorism charges based on motivation than I am say, someone in a fist fight being charged with a hate crime.

I'm not entirely sure why. I think it has to do with organization and objective goals. But its still fermenting.

Menacing is Menacing, property damage is property damage. Prosecute the crime, not the ideas.

So why didn't we charge Osama Bin Laden with a crime and try to extradite him?

Clearly we draw a distinction between on motivation and upgrade the act based on motivation. Sometimes. I think the distinction between hate crimes and terrorism is subtle, but significant. As most hate crimes aren't part of a larger goal. Some drunk dude calls someone a 'faggot' before hitting them isn't the enactment of some vast, over arching goal.

 

[Timmy]

You misunderstand hate crime.

Just because someone is of a different whatever or uses a slur , that alone doesn't make it a hate crime .

Don't worry, you can still be awful racists and not be charged with a crime .

That's the real issue here ain't it?

 

[Rustic]

A hate crime is only determined a "hate" crime by political correctness of the day...
Always in a state of flux depending on situational morality.
And As always held up by the spineless progressives...

 

[Claudette]

H.Res.569 - Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.114th Congress (2015-2016)

...

Text - H.Res.569 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.

...

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Hold on. Terrorism is constitutional! Who cares what the terrorists motives are , only their actions . We can now throw out all those terror laws .

Terrorism is an act of some sort. Who called for not prosecuting crimes?

Its terror

H.Res.569 - Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.114th Congress (2015-2016)

...

Text - H.Res.569 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.

...

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Well for now we do care so deal

Oh I'll deal all right. My shotgun works. How bout you???

 

[sealybobo]

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Hold on. Terrorism is constitutional! Who cares what the terrorists motives are , only their actions . We can now throw out all those terror laws .

Terrorism is an act of some sort. Who called for not prosecuting crimes?

Its terror

H.Res.569 - Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.114th Congress (2015-2016)

...

Text - H.Res.569 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Condemning violence, bigotry, and hateful rhetoric towards Muslims in the United States.

...

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Well for now we do care so deal

Oh I'll deal all right. My shotgun works. How bout you???

San Francisco: Man armed with a shotgun near St. Luke's Hospital shot, killed by police

Man with shotgun shot dead by police.

 

[Skylar]

You misunderstand hate crime.

Just because someone is of a different whatever or uses a slur , that alone doesn't make it a hate crime .

Don't worry, you can still be awful racists and not be charged with a crime .

That's the real issue here ain't it?

A hate crime is 'a criminal offense against a person or property motivated in whole or in part by an offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.'

In whole or in part, huh? Using a slur meets that definition elegantly.

 

[TNHarley]

Hellllllllllll nooooooo

 

[Timmy]

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Hold on. Terrorism is constitutional! Who cares what the terrorists motives are , only their actions . We can now throw out all those terror laws .

Terrorism is an act of some sort. Who called for not prosecuting crimes?

Its terror

WOW Talk about a bunch of clueless bastards.

Wonder how the vote will go when the terrorists kill a few hundred Americans???

Just a few hundred? 13,202 have died in the USA this year alone by guns and no one cares. What's a few hundred more?

Gun Violence Archive

Yeah but they haven't been killed by terrorists.

Once that happens no one will give a rats ass about a supposed "hate" crime.

Good God. PC at its best.

Well for now we do care so deal

Oh I'll deal all right. My shotgun works. How bout you???

San Francisco: Man armed with a shotgun near St. Luke's Hospital shot, killed by police

Man with shotgun shot dead by police.

Shot dead? Well charge those police with murder! Murder is murder!