CDZ Are Liberals Their Own Worst Enemy?

[oldsoul]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

 

[Arianrhod]

I wish I knew where "troll" came from. Were I to know, I'd take a hammer and beat it back into it's hovel. When did "boor" "palterer," "cosener" or "dissembler" become so insufficient to convey the idea that folks had to resort to using a word that identifies a wholly fictional character?

If I where to venture a guess, I would say it comes from people who are not educated enought to know, or possibly even to care, what the words you sited even mean. FWIW

This is something that, while not unique to this board, is certainly endemic - the absolute lack of curiosity on the part of certain posters. With the whole of the Internet at their disposal, they seem afraid to learn anything new, even to the point, among some of them, of needing to invent new (and usually deliberately inaccurate) meanings for established words.

 

[TRFjr]

THIS IS NOT A RANT AGAINST LIBERALS. It is a question about whether the imposition of liberal policies which conflict with established social norms inevitably breeds a political overreaction which results in an even less liberal society. This has happened throughout history, and is happening right now in many Muslim countries.

Can it happen here? There are a growing number of people who believe that our country is in grave danger not seen since the Civil War. With mounting evidence, they view the agencies of the federal government to be both corrupt and illegal organs of political suppression and intimidation. The ascendance of "anti-establishment" political candidates indicates a serious lack of faith in these institutions.

What will be the result? Will the bare faced political shenanigans of the last eight years be reversed with a vengeance? Will fire be met with even greater fire? The mood of the electorate seems to be favoring more authoritarian rule by one side or another. Will we lose either way?

You can calm down
Liberals have always been in this country....in fact, this country was founded by liberals

Homosexuals being allowed to marry will not end the world as we know it

It will end religious liberty as we know it. It already has

If you think your religion gives you the right to dictate to government what rights others are allowed to have.....then yes, you have lost that liberty

the liberty of practicing ones faith and forcing one to violate that faith is religious persecution

You are free to practice your faith...you just can't force it on others

how is it being free to practice ones faith when you can be forced to violate it?

 

[TRFjr]

When the GOP selects an "establishment" candidate next year, will the OP reconsider his position?

The only way that any GOP candidate can become POTUS in 2016 is if he or she takes a hard turn to the left in the general. This nation leans left.

If that reality has not hit home yet......you've at least got a weak excuse for this thread.

boy aren't you cozy in your little liberal bubble

Americans continue to be more likely to identify as conservatives (38%) than as liberals (23%).

Liberal Self-Identification Edges Up to New High in 2013

 

[Skylar]

You can calm down
Liberals have always been in this country....in fact, this country was founded by liberals

Homosexuals being allowed to marry will not end the world as we know it

It will end religious liberty as we know it. It already has

If you think your religion gives you the right to dictate to government what rights others are allowed to have.....then yes, you have lost that liberty

the liberty of practicing ones faith and forcing one to violate that faith is religious persecution

You are free to practice your faith...you just can't force it on others

how is it being free to practice ones faith when you are forced to violate it?

Depends on the circumstances. If faith allows you to ignore any law you wish, what law couldn't you ignore based on 'free practice of one's faith'?

Could you 'free practice of one's faith' your way around say....paying taxes? If not, why not?

 

[Skylar]

When the GOP selects an "establishment" candidate next year, will the OP reconsider his position?

The only way that any GOP candidate can become POTUS in 2016 is if he or she takes a hard turn to the left in the general. This nation leans left.

If that reality has not hit home yet......you've at least got a weak excuse for this thread.

boy aren't you cozy in your little liberal bubble

Americans continue to be more likely to identify as conservatives (38%) than as liberals (23%).

Liberal Self-Identification Edges Up to New High in 2013

True enough. But self identified moderates and liberals outweigh conservatives by a fair margin. And with conservatives dismissing their own as RINOs, they 'true conservatives' are an even greater minority.

 

[rightwinger]

THIS IS NOT A RANT AGAINST LIBERALS. It is a question about whether the imposition of liberal policies which conflict with established social norms inevitably breeds a political overreaction which results in an even less liberal society. This has happened throughout history, and is happening right now in many Muslim countries.

Can it happen here? There are a growing number of people who believe that our country is in grave danger not seen since the Civil War. With mounting evidence, they view the agencies of the federal government to be both corrupt and illegal organs of political suppression and intimidation. The ascendance of "anti-establishment" political candidates indicates a serious lack of faith in these institutions.

What will be the result? Will the bare faced political shenanigans of the last eight years be reversed with a vengeance? Will fire be met with even greater fire? The mood of the electorate seems to be favoring more authoritarian rule by one side or another. Will we lose either way?

You can calm down
Liberals have always been in this country....in fact, this country was founded by liberals

Homosexuals being allowed to marry will not end the world as we know it

It will end religious liberty as we know it. It already has

If you think your religion gives you the right to dictate to government what rights others are allowed to have.....then yes, you have lost that liberty

Forcing someone to bake a cake against there religious beliefs is indeed an attack on religion.
Go peddle your crud somewhere else.

Homosexuals have suffered much more in our society than being forced to bake cakes

 

[rightwinger]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

No idea what you are babbling about. Why don't you provide specific examples ?

 

[320 Years of History]

Homosexuals have suffered much more in our society than being forced to bake cakes

Kudos! That is probably the first pithy and truly humorous remark I've come by in my short time on this forum.

 

[oldsoul]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

No idea what you are babbling about. Why don't you provide specific examples ?

Only if you cease and desist with the insults. Maybe you could try that again without the insult.

 

[rightwinger]

Homosexuals have suffered much more in our society than being forced to bake cakes

Kudos! That is probably the first pithy and truly humorous remark I've come by in my short time on this forum.

I do realize what tyranny being forced to bake cakes against ones will can be

 

[320 Years of History]

Homosexuals have suffered much more in our society than being forced to bake cakes

Kudos! That is probably the first pithy and truly humorous remark I've come by in my short time on this forum.

I do realize what tyranny being forced to bake cakes against ones will can be

Having been forced on several occasions to prepare Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners, I empathize with you.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

 

[oldsoul]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

How else would you describe corporate bail-outs, ethenol subsidies, solar and wind energy subsidies, ect.? If not corporate welfare then what, pray tell, is it?

 

[LoneLaugher]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

How else would you describe corporate bail-outs, ethenol subsidies, solar and win energy subsidies, ect.? If not corporate welfare then what, pray tell, is it?

Are those businesses job creators? Do they depend on the government for their basic needs? Did these businesses "build that"? Or...are you just a nutbag trying to gain some populist street cred?

Answer the question in my sig line, please. All I need is a number. You may round up to thye nearest million.

Thanks.

 

[320 Years of History]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

Are you implying you don't think there is such a thing as "corporate welfare?" Or might you be suggesting that companies don't avail themselves of "corporate welfare?" Truly, however, I am uncertain how to construe your remark.

• With Corporate Welfare, There's No 'Trickle Down' | RealClearMarkets
  
• The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America

 

[flacaltenn]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

Are you implying you don't think there is such a thing as "corporate welfare?" Or might you be suggesting that companies don't avail themselves of "corporate welfare?" Truly, however, I am uncertain how to construe your remark.

• With Corporate Welfare, There's No 'Trickle Down' | RealClearMarkets
  
• The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America

Neither side is in favor of corporate welfare. At least not their constituents. You have to cut the SIZE and SCOPE of government so that they don't have the power to GIVE these subsidies. And that's just not a leftist ambition --- is it? Which comes first? the honey or the flies?

It's a politician thing. They TOOK the power to do those things. And liberals/leftist/socialist see NO LIMITS to what the government SHOULD be able to do..

 

[LoneLaugher]

What will be the result?

Seems to me the Left has had quite a bit of success over the last seven years. Maybe not as much as they'd like, but 2016 notwithstanding, it does seem like the country is moving Left.

Obviously the opposition has been pretty rabid, but that doesn't mean it's been effective.
.

All in all, liberals can be very pleased with the progress we have made on healthcare, gay rights, womens health, the environment and immigration

I fail to see how we are our own worst enemy

The way I see it, Liberals have succeeded in creating an entire class of people/businesses, who are in whole or in part dependant on government to provide for their basic needs/profitability. When this policy becomes unsustainable, it will collapse.

Look at that! Now BUSINESSES are takers. I love that shit.

Are you implying you don't think there is such a thing as "corporate welfare?" Or might you be suggesting that companies don't avail themselves of "corporate welfare?" Truly, however, I am uncertain how to construe your remark.

• With Corporate Welfare, There's No 'Trickle Down' | RealClearMarkets
  
• The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America

Please construe my remarks as disbelief that any CONSERVATIVES care about corporate welfare in the least. I'm mocking the CONSERVATIVES who think that opposition to corporate welfare is their issue. Too late.

 

[320 Years of History]

Neither side is in favor of corporate welfare. At least not their constituents. You have to cut the SIZE and SCOPE of government so that they don't have the power to GIVE these subsidies. And that's just not a leftist ambition --- is it? Which comes first? the honey or the flies?

It's a politician thing. They TOOK the power to do those things. And liberals/leftist/socialist see NO LIMITS to what the government SHOULD be able to do..

As an encapsulation of the theme you put forth, you lost me with the "flies and honey" bit. I think there is definitely a causal relationship to be found in connection with corporate welfare (and its recipients), voters and elected officials. There is no such relationship between flies and honey; one exists independently of the other. Moreover, I don't have the first idea of whom you see as the fly or the honey, to say nothing of what role you see the third group filling.

Please clarify. I do genuinely want to understand the point you are trying to communicate. I don't know if I will or won't agree with it, but I can't know that until I understand it.

 

[320 Years of History]

Are those businesses job creators? Do they depend on the government for their basic needs? Did these businesses "build that"? Or...are you just a nutbag trying to gain some populist street cred?

Answer my the question in my sig line, please. All I need is a number. You may round up to thye nearest million.

Thanks.

I think you know as well as I do that I can't give you a precise figure that answers your signature question. The best I can do is provide some figures that hint at what, directionally, it might be.

• In August 2015, 45,464,508 received SNAP benefits. That figure represents a decrease of 1,011,783 recipients from August 2014.
• In 2013, twenty-two percent of SNAP households had zero gross income in fiscal year 2013 and 39 percent had zero net income.
• In 2013, 23.1 million households across the United States received SNAP benefits.
  • Those benefits went to 47.6 million people.
• Also, in 2013, among SNAP receiving households, the average household with children had 3.2 people, compared with an average of 1.1 people for households without children.
• In 2013 too, a majority (57 percent) of SNAP households with children were single-adult households.
• In 2013, more than half (52 percent) of all SNAP households with children had earned income.
• In 2013, 42 percent of single-adult households with children and 70 percent of married heads of households with children had earned income.

So there you go. You can now do the math, explain how you interpolate which of those welfare recipients actively refuse to work and which of them are unable to work (for whatever reason), and in turn, answer your own question. What I want to know is:

• Why you failed to obtain a recent and credible source, just as I did, such that you wouldn't need to ask the question you did?
• Given that you expressed a desire to know the answer to your question, and didn't do the research and math to obtain your answer, or a fair approximation of it, is it reasonable for us to infer that you are perhaps no less lazy than are those folks whom you posit "refuse to work?"