Are republicans playing with fire when it comes to obamacare?

[g5000]

@ OP. Nope, I don't think they are playing with fire. If the Supreme Court rules against federal subsidies, The law will either need to be rewritten, or it will collapse.

The entire waste of time and money in the courts could easily have been avoided by simply adding three words to the ACA.

But the GOP is not about fixing things that are broken, as has been abundantly made clear in this topic.

And you can be sure that if the subsidies are ruled illegal, the GOP still won't add those three words. They will choose instead to throw millions of people out of insurance.

And THAT is playing with fire.

No, it's about fixing what is actually broken... not creating a broken down duplicate of the NIH... which is where we are being taken by you and your fellow liberals/progressive nincompoops.

Hey, dumbass. Have you ever even read what I think we need to do to reform healthcare? God know I have posted it enough times on this forum.

Didn't think so.

 

[g5000]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

Comprehensive, the commiecrat code word for draconian bullshit. The feds should get out of health care completely and quit distorting the market.

Same question to you. Have you ever read any of my posts about what we need to do?

And by the way, getting the feds out of healthcare IS COMPREHENSIVE REFORM.

Now show us the Republican legislation to replace ObamaCare. Any asshole can whine about the other guy's (Democratic) plan. Show us the Republican legislation.

 

[Jarhead]

"We're gonna make it so cheap, you'll need a subsidy to afford it".

well, that is spin of what was said.

The truth is, it was IMPLIED that the cost for a plan would go down, and those that still can not afford it will receive a subsidy.

But as expected, the costs did not go down. They are increasing as quickly as they would have without the ACA. However the OOP costs to each is also increasing. And so MORE need the subsidy and those without a subsidy are paying more.

It is a lose lose...and there is NO WAY that the advisors around Obama did not know that would happen.

 

[Clementine]

A lot of the people signed up for Medicaid. The Republicans had suggested expanding Medicaid to begin with instead of screwing over middle class.

 

[g5000]

For the dumbshits in this topic who think I am supporting ObamaCare: Bzzzzzzz! Wrong answer.

My solution, which I have posted many, many times, involves EXACTLY what OKTexas said. Getting government out of health care.

 

[g5000]

Since the GOP did NOTHING, and continue to do NOTHING (except whine), we got ObamaCare and will ultimately have single payer healthcare.

This is an observation, not endorsement.

Wake up.

 

[Eaglewings]

People who are in charge of making or breaking a better solution don't give a shit. They all have the best insurance and retirement there is...Why should they bother showing any kind of compassion for people who loose their homes after working their ass off for 40 +years or so.

 

[g5000]

"We're gonna make it so cheap, you'll need a subsidy to afford it".

well, that is spin of what was said.

The truth is, it was IMPLIED that the cost for a plan would go down, and those that still can not afford it will receive a subsidy.

What was implied was that the per capita cost of healthcare would go down.

It was a classic bait and switch con.

 

[bendog]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

I'm not sure the gop wanted the dems to have their way, but I do agree that the effect of Obamacare is to head towards single payor.

Jarhead ignores it, but every gop proposal that did something to address marketplace was trashed by the gop itself. Bennett in Utah even lost to a Tea Partier who denies there's any govt role. What happened was that any goper who wanted to address the issue was prone to having a TP challenger, and Obamacare's road to single payor gave even the potential positive senators like Hatch and Grassley an excuse to just say "no."

Nice try. But wrong.
I followed the process quite closely. Tort reform was the number one item the GOP wanted to address. They were well aware that such would decrease costs to the medical industry, thus decreasing the cost of medical care. It was not even considered by the democrats in power.

And yes....only a fucking idiot was not aware that the overall long term plan of Obama and his advisors was to ultimately force us into a single payer system.

And once the SCOTUS finds the ACA is unconstitutional, that will likely prompt the move to a single payer.

Of course tort reform will fix costs (sarcasm) and the constitutionality of the ACA is not at issue.

 

[Jarhead]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

I'm not sure the gop wanted the dems to have their way, but I do agree that the effect of Obamacare is to head towards single payor.

Jarhead ignores it, but every gop proposal that did something to address marketplace was trashed by the gop itself. Bennett in Utah even lost to a Tea Partier who denies there's any govt role. What happened was that any goper who wanted to address the issue was prone to having a TP challenger, and Obamacare's road to single payor gave even the potential positive senators like Hatch and Grassley an excuse to just say "no."

Nice try. But wrong.
I followed the process quite closely. Tort reform was the number one item the GOP wanted to address. They were well aware that such would decrease costs to the medical industry, thus decreasing the cost of medical care. It was not even considered by the democrats in power.

And yes....only a fucking idiot was not aware that the overall long term plan of Obama and his advisors was to ultimately force us into a single payer system.

And once the SCOTUS finds the ACA is unconstitutional, that will likely prompt the move to a single payer.

Of course tort reform will fix costs (sarcasm) and the constitutionality of the ACA is not at issue.

Yeah. Ok. You are the smartest man in the room.

We get it.

 

[bendog]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

I'm not sure the gop wanted the dems to have their way, but I do agree that the effect of Obamacare is to head towards single payor.

Jarhead ignores it, but every gop proposal that did something to address marketplace was trashed by the gop itself. Bennett in Utah even lost to a Tea Partier who denies there's any govt role. What happened was that any goper who wanted to address the issue was prone to having a TP challenger, and Obamacare's road to single payor gave even the potential positive senators like Hatch and Grassley an excuse to just say "no."

Nice try. But wrong.
I followed the process quite closely. Tort reform was the number one item the GOP wanted to address. They were well aware that such would decrease costs to the medical industry, thus decreasing the cost of medical care. It was not even considered by the democrats in power.

And yes....only a fucking idiot was not aware that the overall long term plan of Obama and his advisors was to ultimately force us into a single payer system.

And once the SCOTUS finds the ACA is unconstitutional, that will likely prompt the move to a single payer.

Of course tort reform will fix costs (sarcasm) and the constitutionality of the ACA is not at issue.

Yeah. Ok. You are the smartest man in the room.

We get it.

Well, more informed than you, but that's not much for a potted plant either.

 

[Missourian]

@ OP. Nope, I don't think they are playing with fire. If the Supreme Court rules against federal subsidies, The law will either need to be rewritten, or it will collapse.

The entire waste of time and money in the courts could easily have been avoided by simply adding three words to the ACA.

But the GOP is not about fixing things that are broken, as has been abundantly made clear in this topic.

And you can be sure that if the subsidies are ruled illegal, the GOP still won't add those three words. They will choose instead to throw millions of people out of insurance.

And THAT is playing with fire.

There was a time for asking the Republicans for help with the ACA...and at that time, the Democrats had the power to go it alone...and they did. They included those three words to force the red states into compliance and it blew up in their collective faces. It's not the Republicans job to fix the Democrats unilateral fuckup. The Democrats showed us how to use power. We don't want a mandate. If the Republicans voted in favor of it, we would primary their asses so fast, their heads would swim.

Democrats showed us how to use power when they passed the ACA. Had they done a good job, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. But their miscalculation has opened an opportunity to use our power to renegotiate the ACA, just like GOP constituents want.

Is it going to go away? That's up to the Democrats. Republicans are going to use Democrat gun strategy against them in this ACA fight...if given the opportunity by the SC. We are going to ask for "common sense adjustments" to the ACA...while still providing for subsidies and an expanded healthcare system run be the states perhaps as an expansion of medicare...and if the Democrats don't acquiesce, let it collapse while placing the blame squarely on the Democrats.

If the Democrats want to solve this today...they can give to get. I'd accept that. But they would rather take their chances.

But I think your premise is bogus. Most Republicans accepted that some form of universal healthcare is here to stay. After Romney lost and the entitlement was implemented, that was the end of that. But the FORM of that universal healthcare is still open to change...and that is what Republicans are hoping to accomplish...eliminating the mandate and giving states more control over requirements.

 

[jillian]

.

The ACA is a pig and a terribly wasted opportunity, but the GOP is dreaming if they think they can yank health insurance from millions of people and not pay the price.

A GOP-friendly system, Medicare/Medicare Supplements/Medicare Advantage public/private partnership is already in place and could have been scaled up with a few tweaks. But no, the GOP was too busy saying "no".

Well, good luck with that.

.

it was lawfully enacted.

it's withstood about 50 wacko votes to rescind it by the wingers.

now tell us again how you hate activist courts.

 

[g5000]

There was a time for asking the Republicans for help with the ACA...and at that time, the Democrats had the power to go it alone...and they did.

Nope. That's an entirely bogus meme. The GOP had over a year to make their inputs, and they did. Some of their amendments were incorporated.

They included those three words to force the red states into compliance and it blew up in their collective faces. It's not the Republicans job to fix the Democrats unilateral fuckup. The Democrats showed us how to use power. We don't want a mandate. If the Republicans voted in favor of it, we would primary their asses so fast, their heads would swim.

Democrats showed us how to use power when they passed the ACA. Had they done a good job, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. But their miscalculation has opened an opportunity to use our power to renegotiate the ACA, just like GOP constituents want.

Is it going to go away? That's up to the Democrats. Republicans are going to use Democrat gun strategy against them in this ACA fight...if given the opportunity by the SC. We are going to ask for "common sense adjustments" to the ACA...while still providing for subsidies and an expanded healthcare system run be the states as an expansion of medicare...and if the Democrats don't acquiesce, let it collapse while placing the blame squarely on the Democrats.

If the Democrats want to solve this today...they can give to get. I'd accept that. But they would rather take their chances.

But I think your premise is bogus. Most Republicans accepted that some form of universal healthcare is here to stay. After Romney lost and the entitlement was implemented, that was the end of that. But the FORM of that universal healthcare is still open to change...and that is what Republicans are hoping to accomplish...eliminating the mandate and giving states more control over requirements.

The ACA is not the first piece of legislation which had unintended consequences which later had to be fixed. Far, far, far from it.

But the rubes have been led to believe it is. That's why they sneeringly mock Feingold's "We have to pass it to see what's in it." Because they are completely ignorant of the context of that statement.

The 1998 GOP budget STILL has fixes passed on a regular basis to this day.

Instead of doing what has always been done when unintended consequences are found, the GOP has decided to force a constitutional crisis instead, and risk fucking over millions of uninsured at the same time.

If that isn't playing with fire, I don't know what is.

And it is putting party over country.


The GOP has only weapon in its arsenal: the ignorance and stupidity of the rubes. And this topic has demonstrated it has a lot of megatonnage.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The ACA is a pig and a terribly wasted opportunity, but the GOP is dreaming if they think they can yank health insurance from millions of people and not pay the price.

A GOP-friendly system, Medicare/Medicare Supplements/Medicare Advantage public/private partnership is already in place and could have been scaled up with a few tweaks. But no, the GOP was too busy saying "no".

Well, good luck with that.

.

it was lawfully enacted.

it's withstood about 50 wacko votes to rescind it by the wingers.

now tell us again how you hate activist courts.

What are you talking about?

.

 

[bendog]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

Comprehensive, the commiecrat code word for draconian bullshit. The feds should get out of health care completely and quit distorting the market.

Same question to you. Have you ever read any of my posts about what we need to do?

And by the way, getting the feds out of healthcare IS COMPREHENSIVE REFORM.

Now show us the Republican legislation to replace ObamaCare. Any asshole can whine about the other guy's (Democratic) plan. Show us the Republican legislation.

I don't think I ever asked you what you thought of one proposal that was floated. Just "give" every American family some amount of tax credit (I assume per capita) for health care. They could buy insurance or pay fee for service. Whatever. But end any govt role in giving employers tax breaks. I assume they could have excluded public sector workers, and probably there'd have to have been some "soft mandate" that to get the tax credit one would have to agree to buy some catastrophic coverage.

Medicaid would be phased out, and Medicare left untouched.

 

[jillian]

.

The ACA is a pig and a terribly wasted opportunity, but the GOP is dreaming if they think they can yank health insurance from millions of people and not pay the price.

A GOP-friendly system, Medicare/Medicare Supplements/Medicare Advantage public/private partnership is already in place and could have been scaled up with a few tweaks. But no, the GOP was too busy saying "no".

Well, good luck with that.

.

it was lawfully enacted.

it's withstood about 50 wacko votes to rescind it by the wingers.

now tell us again how you hate activist courts.

What are you talking about?

.

you not understand the history of the ACA?

no prob.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The ACA is a pig and a terribly wasted opportunity, but the GOP is dreaming if they think they can yank health insurance from millions of people and not pay the price.

A GOP-friendly system, Medicare/Medicare Supplements/Medicare Advantage public/private partnership is already in place and could have been scaled up with a few tweaks. But no, the GOP was too busy saying "no".

Well, good luck with that.

.

it was lawfully enacted.

it's withstood about 50 wacko votes to rescind it by the wingers.

now tell us again how you hate activist courts.

What are you talking about?

.

you not understand the history of the ACA?

no prob.

Okay, I'll try again.

What did "now tell us again how you hate activist courts" mean?

Are you demonstrating once again that you don't know my politics?

.

 

[g5000]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

Comprehensive, the commiecrat code word for draconian bullshit. The feds should get out of health care completely and quit distorting the market.

Same question to you. Have you ever read any of my posts about what we need to do?

And by the way, getting the feds out of healthcare IS COMPREHENSIVE REFORM.

Now show us the Republican legislation to replace ObamaCare. Any asshole can whine about the other guy's (Democratic) plan. Show us the Republican legislation.

I don't think I ever asked you what you thought of one proposal that was floated. Just "give" every American family some amount of tax credit (I assume per capita) for health care. They could buy insurance or pay fee for service. Whatever. But end any govt role in giving employers tax breaks. I assume they could have excluded public sector workers, and probably there'd have to have been some "soft mandate" that to get the tax credit one would have to agree to buy some catastrophic coverage.

Medicaid would be phased out, and Medicare left untouched.

John McCain tried to play catch-up to the Democrats during the 2008 campaign. He threw a Hail Mary pass at the last minute (October 2008) which included this idea of eliminating the tax exemption for employer-sponsored health insurance and replacing it with a $5000 tax credit for everyone.

His plan also included making health insurance companies able to compete on a national scale.

If you read the many posts I have made about what kinds of reforms I want to see, you will find, among other things, I invariably say we need to eliminate the employer-sponsored health insurance tax exemption (I also invariably say it bends the cost curve up), and that we should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our auto, home, and life insurance.

No such legislation has ever been put on the table by the GOP, though. Even now, seven years later, and four years after the passage of ObamaCare.

Bitching and moaning is easier. Writing solutions is too hard.

 

[bendog]

I'm not an obamacare fan, but I find this aspect of the most recent challenge to be delightfully insane

The case came about when some Virginians who receive subsidies to buy health insurance on healthcare.gov sued the government, saying they shouldn’t be getting the subsidies. They say they’re hurt by the money because without it, they wouldn’t have to buy insurance at all: The ACA requires people to buy insurance, but exempts anyone who would have to spend more than 8 percent of their annual income on health insurance.
Obamacare and How to Read the Supreme Court Tea Leaves - ABC News