Are republicans playing with fire when it comes to obamacare?

[g5000]

The GOP boxed itself into a corner. They bitched about page count. It just does not get more retarded than that. Seriously.

Complaining about page count signals, "We are too stupid to read past ten sentences". BWA-HA-HA-HA!

So now, if they write any comprehensive health care reform (which they never will), they have to make it short or look like the idiots they are.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[bendog]

The GOP boxed itself into a corner. They bitched about page count. It just does not get more retarded than that. Seriously.

So now, if they write any comprehensive health care reform (which they never will), they have to make it short or look like the idiots they are.

Yeah, the gop's done on that. btw, I wasn't referencing Boom Boom McCain's hail mary. The gop had been kicking around the tax credit thing for awhile, and he just latched onto it like a drowning sailor. and $5000 is a bad joke.

 

[g5000]

The GOP boxed itself into a corner. They bitched about page count. It just does not get more retarded than that. Seriously.

So now, if they write any comprehensive health care reform (which they never will), they have to make it short or look like the idiots they are.

Yeah, the gop's done on that. btw, I wasn't referencing Boom Boom McCain's hail mary. The gop had been kicking around the tax credit thing for awhile, and he just latched onto it like a drowning sailor. and $5000 is a bad joke.

Considering the average cost of health insurance for a family of four was $12,000 in 2008, and has only gone up from there, a mere $5,000 would still keep insurance out of reach for millions of families.

But if the totality of health care reforms were truly effective, the cost of insurance should plummet.

 

[Vigilante]

 

[g5000]

It was understood by EVERYONE in Congress that the subsidies would apply to the federal exchange as well as the state exchanges.

As I said earlier, a mere THREE WORDS would remove all ambiguity from the law. All Congress has to do is take five minutes to make the change. So you have to ask yourself why the GOP chose instead to force a Constitutional crisis, spend months in court at God knows what expense, and risk millions of people losing their insurance.

Because they are assholes, that's why.

 

[Missourian]

There was a time for asking the Republicans for help with the ACA...and at that time, the Democrats had the power to go it alone...and they did.

Nope. That's an entirely bogus meme. The GOP had over a year to make their inputs, and they did. Some of their amendments were incorporated.

They included those three words to force the red states into compliance and it blew up in their collective faces. It's not the Republicans job to fix the Democrats unilateral fuckup. The Democrats showed us how to use power. We don't want a mandate. If the Republicans voted in favor of it, we would primary their asses so fast, their heads would swim.

Democrats showed us how to use power when they passed the ACA. Had they done a good job, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. But their miscalculation has opened an opportunity to use our power to renegotiate the ACA, just like GOP constituents want.

Is it going to go away? That's up to the Democrats. Republicans are going to use Democrat gun strategy against them in this ACA fight...if given the opportunity by the SC. We are going to ask for "common sense adjustments" to the ACA...while still providing for subsidies and an expanded healthcare system run be the states as an expansion of medicare...and if the Democrats don't acquiesce, let it collapse while placing the blame squarely on the Democrats.

If the Democrats want to solve this today...they can give to get. I'd accept that. But they would rather take their chances.

But I think your premise is bogus. Most Republicans accepted that some form of universal healthcare is here to stay. After Romney lost and the entitlement was implemented, that was the end of that. But the FORM of that universal healthcare is still open to change...and that is what Republicans are hoping to accomplish...eliminating the mandate and giving states more control over requirements.

The ACA is not the first piece of legislation which had unintended consequences which later had to be fixed. Far, far, far from it.

But the rubes have been led to believe it is. That's why they sneeringly mock Feingold's "We have to pass it to see what's in it." Because they are completely ignorant of the context of that statement.

The 1998 GOP budget STILL has fixes passed on a regular basis to this day.

Instead of doing what has always been done when unintended consequences are found, the GOP has decided to force a constitutional crisis instead, and risk fucking over millions of uninsured at the same time.

If that isn't playing with fire, I don't know what is.

And it is putting party over country.


The GOP has only weapon in its arsenal: the ignorance and stupidity of the rubes. And this topic has demonstrated it has a lot of megatonnage.

I believe your opinion would be reversed if, for example, Republicans had forced something like welfare reform, tax reform or social security reform unilaterally, and the Democrats only need to fix three words to diffuse a Constitutional crisis. It is a matter of convictions, not intelligence that determines ones position.

 

[g5000]

There was a time for asking the Republicans for help with the ACA...and at that time, the Democrats had the power to go it alone...and they did.

Nope. That's an entirely bogus meme. The GOP had over a year to make their inputs, and they did. Some of their amendments were incorporated.

They included those three words to force the red states into compliance and it blew up in their collective faces. It's not the Republicans job to fix the Democrats unilateral fuckup. The Democrats showed us how to use power. We don't want a mandate. If the Republicans voted in favor of it, we would primary their asses so fast, their heads would swim.

Democrats showed us how to use power when they passed the ACA. Had they done a good job, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. But their miscalculation has opened an opportunity to use our power to renegotiate the ACA, just like GOP constituents want.

Is it going to go away? That's up to the Democrats. Republicans are going to use Democrat gun strategy against them in this ACA fight...if given the opportunity by the SC. We are going to ask for "common sense adjustments" to the ACA...while still providing for subsidies and an expanded healthcare system run be the states as an expansion of medicare...and if the Democrats don't acquiesce, let it collapse while placing the blame squarely on the Democrats.

If the Democrats want to solve this today...they can give to get. I'd accept that. But they would rather take their chances.

But I think your premise is bogus. Most Republicans accepted that some form of universal healthcare is here to stay. After Romney lost and the entitlement was implemented, that was the end of that. But the FORM of that universal healthcare is still open to change...and that is what Republicans are hoping to accomplish...eliminating the mandate and giving states more control over requirements.

The ACA is not the first piece of legislation which had unintended consequences which later had to be fixed. Far, far, far from it.

But the rubes have been led to believe it is. That's why they sneeringly mock Feingold's "We have to pass it to see what's in it." Because they are completely ignorant of the context of that statement.

The 1998 GOP budget STILL has fixes passed on a regular basis to this day.

Instead of doing what has always been done when unintended consequences are found, the GOP has decided to force a constitutional crisis instead, and risk fucking over millions of uninsured at the same time.

If that isn't playing with fire, I don't know what is.

And it is putting party over country.


The GOP has only weapon in its arsenal: the ignorance and stupidity of the rubes. And this topic has demonstrated it has a lot of megatonnage.

I believe your opinion would be reversed if, for example, Republicans had forced something like welfare reform, tax reform or social security reform unilaterally, and the Democrats only need to fix three words to diffuse a Constitutional crisis. It is a matter of convictions, not intelligence that determines ones position.

You are quite wrong. My opinion would be exactly the same.

 

[g5000]

I don't remember if it was this forum or another forum, but I am on record talking about a very similar situation with the AMT. Every few years or so, it has to be adjusted for inflation, and instead of just passing the simple legislation it would take to do that, our politicians use it as a bargaining chip instead.

Assholes.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Say SC rules in favor of republicans with their latest decision...
A. What's the republicans plan to insure all these people its stealing insurance from?

So you're speaking of those who are currently using taxpayer money to subsidize their healthcare? And you're concerned with Republicans, STEALING Insurance from them by removing the money that they're taking without the permission of those from whom they're taking it?

ROFLMNAO!

Man THAT is some twisted shit right there...

 

[Vigilante]

It was understood by EVERYONE in Congress that the subsidies would apply to the federal exchange as well as the state exchanges.

As I said earlier, a mere THREE WORDS would remove all ambiguity from the law. All Congress has to do is take five minutes to make the change. So you have to ask yourself why the GOP chose instead to force a Constitutional crisis, spend months in court at God knows what expense, and risk millions of people losing their insurance.

Because they are assholes, that's why.

NO, it wasn't .....But now, a 2012 video has emerged of the architect of Obamacare—MIT economist Jonathan Gruber—agreeing that only state exchanges are eligible for subsidies. Does that make Gruber a “shamefully dishonest” Obamacare-gutter?

Want to see the video, to prove you don't know what you're talking about?

Fuck millions of people, even MORE MILLIONS of people are paying through the nose for it now than they were! How fucking stupid, or are you just a liar for partisan sake?

Oh, fuck it, here's Gruber putting you down like the dog you are!

 

[OKTexas]

.

The ACA is a pig and a terribly wasted opportunity, but the GOP is dreaming if they think they can yank health insurance from millions of people and not pay the price.

A GOP-friendly system, Medicare/Medicare Supplements/Medicare Advantage public/private partnership is already in place and could have been scaled up with a few tweaks. But no, the GOP was too busy saying "no".

Well, good luck with that.

.

it was lawfully enacted.

it's withstood about 50 wacko votes to rescind it by the wingers.

now tell us again how you hate activist courts.

So it's an activist court if it upholds the law as written, are you out of your freaking mind?

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

I don't remember if it was this forum or another forum, but I am on record talking about a very similar situation with the AMT. Every few years or so, it has to be adjusted for inflation, and instead of just passing the simple legislation it would take to do that, our politicians use it as a bargaining chip instead.

Assholes.

The AMT is nothing short of theft.

 

[OKTexas]

It was understood by EVERYONE in Congress that the subsidies would apply to the federal exchange as well as the state exchanges.

As I said earlier, a mere THREE WORDS would remove all ambiguity from the law. All Congress has to do is take five minutes to make the change. So you have to ask yourself why the GOP chose instead to force a Constitutional crisis, spend months in court at God knows what expense, and risk millions of people losing their insurance.

Because they are assholes, that's why.

Actually it's called letting the commiecrats live with the poor legislation they crammed down our throats. A just end to their attempt to take over one third of the economy. Many legislators were elected on the promise of ending maobamacare, why on earth should they throw it a life line?

 

[Preacher]

So the commiecrats push through a crap law without one republican vote and now with the prospects of that law falling down around the commiecrats heads because they failed to cover their bases, is all the republicans fault? More than 80% of Americans didn't want the law at the time it was passed, more than 70% still don't like it and you think republicans will take the heat for something they had literally nothing to do with?

My question is what do you think about your dear leader not having a plan B, he's had more than enough time to come up with one while this case has worked its way through the courts.

Disaster Looming For Republicans As Poll Finds 64 Want To Keep Obamacare Subsidies
What we need is this

What Would Universal Healthcare Look Like in the U.S.

I guess you haven't been watching the news lately, the republicans say they have a plan if the supreme court strikes down the illegal subsidies, which is one more than your dear leader has. But don't be surprised if they gut many of the mandates and taxes that are driving medical device manufactures offshore.

Really then where was this BRILLIANT plan back before 2009?Now that someone fixed a problem they had 8 years of Bush to fix its a problem

Say SC rules in favor of republicans with their latest decision...
A. What's the republicans plan to insure all these people its stealing insurance from?

So you're speaking of those who are currently using taxpayer money to subsidize their healthcare? And you're concerned with Republicans, STEALING Insurance from them by removing the money that they're taking without the permission of those from whom they're taking it?

ROFLMNAO!

Man THAT is some twisted shit right there...

Again with the ignorant thinking that only welfare folks need help paying for this insurance...I swear the 21st century is the DUMBEST thing in history.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

Again with the ignorant thinking that only welfare folks need help paying for this insurance...I swear the 21st century is the DUMBEST thing in history.

If you're health insurance is subsidized, you're 'Welfare folk'... .

I hope that helps.

 

[OKTexas]

So the commiecrats push through a crap law without one republican vote and now with the prospects of that law falling down around the commiecrats heads because they failed to cover their bases, is all the republicans fault? More than 80% of Americans didn't want the law at the time it was passed, more than 70% still don't like it and you think republicans will take the heat for something they had literally nothing to do with?

My question is what do you think about your dear leader not having a plan B, he's had more than enough time to come up with one while this case has worked its way through the courts.

Disaster Looming For Republicans As Poll Finds 64 Want To Keep Obamacare Subsidies
What we need is this

What Would Universal Healthcare Look Like in the U.S.

I guess you haven't been watching the news lately, the republicans say they have a plan if the supreme court strikes down the illegal subsidies, which is one more than your dear leader has. But don't be surprised if they gut many of the mandates and taxes that are driving medical device manufactures offshore.

Really then where was this BRILLIANT plan back before 2009?Now that someone fixed a problem they had 8 years of Bush to fix its a problem

Say SC rules in favor of republicans with their latest decision...
A. What's the republicans plan to insure all these people its stealing insurance from?

So you're speaking of those who are currently using taxpayer money to subsidize their healthcare? And you're concerned with Republicans, STEALING Insurance from them by removing the money that they're taking without the permission of those from whom they're taking it?

ROFLMNAO!

Man THAT is some twisted shit right there...

Again with the ignorant thinking that only welfare folks need help paying for this insurance...I swear the 21st century is the DUMBEST thing in history.

No you the dumbest thing in history, 96% of Americans were happy with their health insurance before your dear leader started fucking with it. This shit wasn't done for the American people, it was done in spite of them You don't fuck up 100% of the market to supposedly fix a 4% problem.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The liberals are really getting worried when Obama care crashes and burns in July

Priceless

 

[M14 Shooter]

forcing people to buy health insurance has got to be unconstitutional no matter what the 'supremes' say .

Its a tax. Taxes are legal. I agree we shouldn't be forced but I also think it shouldn't be an issue. We should have universal healthcare. Our taxes should go towards taking care of US not for foreign aide or military adventures.

2 questions:
1: Why do you support forcing people to provide goods and services to others w/o compensation, creating a condition of state enforced involuntary servitude?
2: Is it legal for the federal governent to force everyone to buy a gun (if legal for them to do so) or pay a tax penalty?

1. Healthcare is a right not a commodity....

Wrong. Health care is good and services, both of which are commodities that require people to be paid. Having a right to someting does not mean you have a right to force others to pay for it.
Why do you support forcing people to provide goods and services to others w/o compensation, creating a condition of state enforced involuntary servitude?

2. Require no,suggest hell yea. Its not something you need to have a healthy happy life.

Irrelevant -- we're talking about the power to do so.
Does the government have the power?

 

[Jarhead]

The GOP sold us all down the river. The Democrats have telegraphed for DECADES what they would do about the health care problem if given a chance.

HillaryCare and RomneyCare and ObamaCare are virtually indistinguishable.

And how did the GOP counter this? By doing NOTHING in the way of comprehensive health care reform. And that is a DEAD GIVEAWAY they wanted the Democrats to have their way.

The rest is just theater for the rubes. The GOP cannot let them catch on, under any circumstances.

We are headed for single payer, and the GOP Establishment is fully complicit in that.

You rubes who are defending the GOP Establishment's inaction and sellout are idiots.

The fact the GOP has NOTHING on the table to replace ObamaCare should be a GIGANTIC CLUE. Just how fucking stupid are you people?

I'm not sure the gop wanted the dems to have their way, but I do agree that the effect of Obamacare is to head towards single payor.

Jarhead ignores it, but every gop proposal that did something to address marketplace was trashed by the gop itself. Bennett in Utah even lost to a Tea Partier who denies there's any govt role. What happened was that any goper who wanted to address the issue was prone to having a TP challenger, and Obamacare's road to single payor gave even the potential positive senators like Hatch and Grassley an excuse to just say "no."

Nice try. But wrong.
I followed the process quite closely. Tort reform was the number one item the GOP wanted to address. They were well aware that such would decrease costs to the medical industry, thus decreasing the cost of medical care. It was not even considered by the democrats in power.

And yes....only a fucking idiot was not aware that the overall long term plan of Obama and his advisors was to ultimately force us into a single payer system.

And once the SCOTUS finds the ACA is unconstitutional, that will likely prompt the move to a single payer.

Of course tort reform will fix costs (sarcasm) and the constitutionality of the ACA is not at issue.

Yeah. Ok. You are the smartest man in the room.

We get it.

Well, more informed than you, but that's not much for a potted plant either.

More informed? OK. Confidence is a great attribute.

I consider myself well informed. More than you? I don't know. Does not really matter. But when two people disagree on a topic, it does not mean one is wrong. Especially when it comes to opinion.

I suggest you show more tolerance for those that think differently than you. You wont come across as bitter when you post.

Good luck and have a great weekend.