Ask the Evangelical!

[no1tovote4]

If you're saying the old testament is invalid or anachronistic, I will tend to agree.

But I want to finish reading it for both the historical perspective, and to substantiate my arguments.


A

It wouldn't be invalid, it would be a leading example of the growth of spiritualism that direct access gives you. From the OT to the NT you get a different aspect. However much of the later books of the OT deal with prophesies of Christ and of the end of the World giving insight into what is to come and why it is believed the Christ is the Savior that was prophesied.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I'm not sure where you are in the OT. I would suggest that you alternate, perhaps reading an OT book, then an NT book. What is the purpose of your study, if you don't mind me asking?

Finished Genesis to Numbers and Deuteronomy. I'm going to alternate OT and NT, as you suggest.

The purpose of study is as I mentioned before.

1) I'm interested in the differences between the KJV and NIV.

2) I'm working on a series of articles relating to religion in America.

3) As a civil liberties writer, the issue of religion and the bible come up alot. As a writer, I have a duty to research and investigate. I need to understand the bible well, before I can comment intelligently on it. Too few people (christian and secular alike) have read it, and most know bur a few passages in it. It needs to be looked at in it's entirety to understand.

4) I am also very interested in our divided nation. It does seem like religion and religious values are a part of this divide. I want to understand the motivations, and see if there are points where one can find common ground, or principals to "ease" the divide our nation is facing. Lincoln said "a house divided against itself cannot stand". This is leading me into a project addressing this, and I'll tell more as that gets underway.


Best,

Andy

 

[5stringJeff]

If you're saying the old testament is invalid or anachronistic, I will tend to agree.

But I want to finish reading it for both the historical perspective, and to substantiate my arguments.


A

Andy, I would challenge you to look for the "good" parts in the OT. Yeah, there's a lot of war, death, smiting, etc. But there's also a lot of promises made (and kept), mercy shown, love, and celebration. If you're looking for the "bad stuff" in the OT, I'm sure that's all you'll find. But if you keep a more balanced perspective, you may be surprised at how much good you find.

 

[CivilLiberty]

I agree with you and have read some of, but I think for Andy right now it may be a little too fire and brimstone. .

Yea. Leviticus? Hmmmm.


A

 

[5stringJeff]

Finished Genesis to Numbers and Deuteronomy. I'm going to alternate OT and NT, as you suggest.

The purpose of study is as I mentioned before.

1) I'm interested in the differences between the KJV and NIV.

2) I'm working on a series of articles relating to religion in America.

3) As a civil liberties writer, the issue of religion and the bible come up alot. As a writer, I have a duty to research and investigate. I need to understand the bible well, before I can comment intelligently on it. Too few people (christian and secular alike) have read it, and most know bur a few passages in it. It needs to be looked at in it's entirety to understand.

4) I am also very interested in our divided nation. It does seem like religion and religious values are a part of this divide. I want to understand the motivations, and see if there are points where one can find common ground, or principals to "ease" the divide our nation is facing. Lincoln said "a house divided against itself cannot stand". This is leading me into a project addressing this, and I'll tell more as that gets underway.


Best,

Andy

Very cool. My project right now is reading the biographies of all the U.S. Presidents, to gain a better understanding of what made them successful (or not). I just finished Madison's biography, and it's incredible how much stuff that guy did... but that's a subject for another thread!

 

[CivilLiberty]

Andy, I would challenge you to look for the "good" parts in the OT. .

I am, that's why I'm reading it myself. If all I wanted was the "bad"
parts, I could find them online. Same for the good.

I want to understand the book in it's entirety.


This is particularly important as I'm obviously walking in with certain biases. I want a full view, not the narrow view espoused by the various pro/con factions.





A

 

[freeandfun1]

I just purchased an "Amplified" Bible that makes reading much easier by providing much more detail into the original Greek and Hebrew words and their various meanings.

The "new" NIV called "Today's New International Version" changes too much of the original text and cannot, in my opinion, be any longer considered a valid translation of the Bible. The KJV1611 is typically what most consider the most accurate translation.

 

[5stringJeff]

I just purchased an "Amplified" Bible that makes reading much easier by providing much more detail into the original Greek and Hebrew words and their various meanings.

The "new" NIV called "Today's New International Version" changes too much of the original text and cannot, in my opinion, be any longer considered a valid translation of the Bible. The KJV1611 is typically what most consider the most accurate translation.

Free, you should read this article about Bible translation. Many evangelicals share the belief that the TNIV is not a good translation. WARNING: it's about a 20-30 minute read, but well worth it.

 

[Bonnie]

Civil liberty

Bonnie, since you're a Christian, it's unlikely you'll be a "target" of fundamentalist hatred. As a non-Christian, I'll tell you those people are everywhere.

Now I am stumped, truly Andy I do not look anywhere near to being very Christianly (well.. maybe sweet lol), I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, so I suppose if I were in Hollywood I just might incur the wrath of that hatred, but then that would be a possibility anywhere I suppose, especially in the bible belt in which I spend a lot of time in, and again Ive never had a problem. Im curious as to what is about you that draws such negative attention or puts you in a position to be around that kind unwarranted hatred, unless maybe you walk around with a giant Pentagram around your neck.........LOL J/K Im really not diminishing your experiences, im just confused as to what the conditions or situations are that are making this happen to you?

For me the only hatred I have experienced is at pro-life rallies in which I have had rocks, spit, and insults hurled at me by some form the other side of the issue.

 

[Shattered]

Civil liberty

Now I am stumped, truly Andy I do not look anywhere near to being very Christianly (well.. maybe sweet lol), I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, so I suppose if I were in Hollywood I just might incur the wrath of that hatred, but then that would be a possibility anywhere I suppose, especially in the bible belt in which I spend a lot of time in, and again Ive never had a problem. Im curious as to what is about you that draws such negative attention or puts you in a position to be around that kind unwarranted hatred, unless maybe you walk around with a giant Pentagram around your neck.........LOL J/K Im really not diminishing your experiences, im just confused as to what the conditions or situations are that are making this happen to you?

For me the only hatred I have experienced is at pro-life rallies in which I have had rocks, spit, and insults hurled at me by some form the other side of the issue.

It generally happens when someone goes to thrust a pamphlet into your hands, and you back off and say "No thanks." or "Sorry..Not interested." Seriously.. that's all it takes with some people. (And I have no pentagrams, tattos, weird piercings, etc.)

 

[CivilLiberty]

Civil liberty

Now I am stumped, truly Andy I do not look anywhere near to being very Christianly (well.. maybe sweet lol), I don't wear my religion on my sleeve, so I suppose if I were in Hollywood I just might incur the wrath of that hatred, but then that would be a possibility anywhere I suppose, especially in the bible belt in which I spend a lot of time in, and again Ive never had a problem. Im curious as to what is about you that draws such negative attention or puts you in a position to be around that kind unwarranted hatred, unless maybe you walk around with a giant Pentagram around your neck.........LOL J/K Im really not diminishing your experiences, im just confused as to what the conditions or situations are that are making this happen to you?

For me the only hatred I have experienced is at pro-life rallies in which I have had rocks, spit, and insults hurled at me by some form the other side of the issue.

I sometimes wear a long black leather trench coat with a YinYang pin on the lapel - but no pentagrams.

What I meant is that you may never go to locations that would attract these people, and I do, living in downtown Hollywood as I do....


A

 

[Bonnie]

It generally happens when someone goes to thrust a pamphlet into your hands, and you back off and say "No thanks." or "Sorry..Not interested." Seriously.. that's all it takes with some people. (And I have no pentagrams, tattos, weird piercings, etc.)

I believe you. I have just never run into that, I wonder why? That would annoy me as well, and Im sure if I ever ran into someone like that they would see me and want to thrust many pamplets my way

 

[Bonnie]

I sometimes wear a long black leather trench coat with a YinYang pin on the lapel - but no pentagrams.

What I meant is that you may never go to locations that would attract these people, and I do, living in downtown Hollywood as I do....


A

I guess Hollywood is a panacea for folks like that. If they saw me Id be prime pickins for them I would imagine!

 

[freeandfun1]

Free, you should read this article about Bible translation. Many evangelicals share the belief that the TNIV is not a good translation. WARNING: it's about a 20-30 minute read, but well worth it.

Thanks! That was a long, but interesting read. It gets so confusing with all the different versions. Some swear by NASB, some by KJV, or NKJV, etc., and some are pretty defensive over it all. I just want to read! lol

 

[Hobbit]

Wow, I missed a lot. Let me go over a few points.

OT vs. NT - The OT seems to be full of hatred, but if you read between the lines, the people the Israelis wiped out were given chances by God to repent, but failed to do so. At that point, either they or the Israelites would be wiped out. That aside, the NT, or rather parts of it, overwrite the OT. People must no longer give sacrifices, "eye for an eye" is no longer valid, etc. The themes of the OT center around Israel's cycle of faithfulness, faithlessness, and redemption and the prophecies of the messiah. The NT focuses on the teachings of Jesus, the messiah, and His forgiveness.

Bible versions - As far as being close to the orignal Greek and Hebrew, the KJV isn't that great. King James had an agenda, and the passages about witchcraft, when compared to other versions, show this. However, many people in modern times write bibles with agendas. My advice is to find one with footnotes that comment on phrases that couldn't be properly translated. That's about as thorough as it gets. For example, many passages have slightly different meanings when footnotes differentiate between the singular and plural versions of "you."

Nutjobs - They're everywhere and I despise their message. They simply spew condemnation at all who pass, and no, we Christians aren't immune. Most of them are fanatical to a very strict denomination. If they can't find anything else to preach about, they'll condemn any woman wearing pants or any guy with shoulder length hair. I get preached at those guys a lot for believing in the baptism of the holy spirit evidenced by speaking in tongues.

Science vs. Religion - I don't think they're mutually exclusive. So far, science has only theorized the absence of a higher power. The haven't proven it. Neither do sensible Christians dismiss science as heresy. When both groups get off it, they tend to actually support each other. For example, there's a passage in the Bible where Jesus heals a man who was blind from birth. The man then proclaims that people look like walking trees. For centuries, he was thought to simply be poetic, but the truth is that those who were blind, but can now see have trouble making sense out of images. Trees are some of the easiest objects to understand, and when people healed of lifelong blindness begin to put together the pictures, they liken people to walking trees.

 

[dilloduck]

I watched Revelations on TV last night and got curious when the words " forgive then father for they know not what they do ". Could soneone expound on this a little bit for me?

 

[5stringJeff]

I watched Revelations on TV last night and got curious when the words " forgive then father for they know not what they do ". Could soneone expound on this a little bit for me?

These words were uttered by Jesus as (or right after) he was crucified. When used today, it's usually referring to someone who is unaware of the sins they are committing, especially a more grievous sin.

 

[dilloduck]

These words were uttered by Jesus as (or right after) he was crucified. When used today, it's usually referring to someone who is unaware of the sins they are committing, especially a more grievous sin.

I guess that's why I why intrigued-----even Jesus forgave those who were ignorant. The only reason Jesus asked for them to be forgiven was that they simply weren't aware that what they were doing was "wrong".

 

[5stringJeff]

I guess that's why I why intrigued-----even Jesus forgave those who were ignorant. The only reason Jesus asked for them to be forgiven was that they simply weren't aware that what they were doing was "wrong".

What was the context in which it was used in the show?

 

[dilloduck]

What was the context in which it was used in the show?

Actually in the show, the actor playing the devil used the quote from the Bible but being nterested in what Jesus actually said , it got me thinking.