Assault weapons ban

[Snookie]

That's why the Pledge of Allegiance ends with "to the Republic for which it stands."

Big deal. The pledge is not law. der.

Correct. It is not law...but it does not say "to the democracy for which it stands."

Your density is exceeding great.

Another temper tantrum by a pro gunner. You all seem to have bad tempers, especially when someone offers an opinion different than yours. You then infer that they are stupid.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

OK, we repealed the 18th Amendment. That set a precedent, why can’t we repeal the second amendment? I can’t imagine how private gun ownership has helped ME feel free or be safe. And people with guns harm our society. Perhaps it’s time to rethink the second amendment.

The 18th Amendment did not address a protected right, however; indeed, many perceived its repeal as ‘liberating.’

That’s not the case with the Second Amendment.

 

[PaulS1950]

OK, we repealed the 18th Amendment. That set a precedent, why can’t we repeal the second amendment? I can’t imagine how private gun ownership has helped ME feel free or be safe. And people with guns harm our society. Perhaps it’s time to rethink the second amendment.

Even if you were successful in repealing the second amendment it would not do away with the right to keep and bear arms. The ninth amendment provides for the protection of the rights not enumerated in the bill of rights. The right to self defense, the right to keep and bear arms and ythe right to be secure in your person all tie together different aspects of personal defense. They are natural rights of birth. Whether you use "G_d given" or "natural" to define the origin of those rights the history of the right to keep and bear arms extends far deeper in history that the second amendment. We are born with a right to defend ourselves and our belongings. The only way to do that is to have weapons that are modern and up to date and at least as formidable as those carried by those who confront us.

 

[UseCaution]

Big deal. The pledge is not law. der.

Correct. It is not law...but it does not say "to the democracy for which it stands."

Your density is exceeding great.

I'd just like to highlight the following context:

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy (1855–1931), who was a Baptist minister, a Christian socialist,[3] and the cousin of socialist utopian novelist Edward Bellamy (1850–1898). The original "Pledge of Allegiance" was published in the September 8 issue of the popular children's magazine The Youth's Companion as part of the National Public-School Celebration of Columbus Day, a celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's arrival in the Americas. The event was conceived and promoted by James B. Upham, a marketer for the magazine, as a campaign to instill the idea of American nationalism by selling flags to public schools and magazines to students.[4][5][6][7]

Bellamy's original Pledge read as follows:[8][9]

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Students swearing the Pledge on Flag Day in 1899

The Pledge was supposed to be quick and to the point. Bellamy designed it to be recited in 15 seconds. As a socialist, he had initially also considered using the words equality and fraternity[7] but decided against it - knowing that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.[10]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance

OK, we repealed the 18th Amendment. That set a precedent, why can’t we repeal the second amendment? I can’t imagine how private gun ownership has helped ME feel free or be safe. And people with guns harm our society. Perhaps it’s time to rethink the second amendment.

Why, exactly, do you think criminals- especially those who already aren't supposed to have firearms- will go along with this?

And the last context:
"Bellamy salute occurred on December 22, 1942, when Congress amended the Flag Code language first passed into law on June 22, 1942." that little nazi thing was an issue.

 

[candycorn]

The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It's a terrible idea that won't work. What you do is increase the taxes on the purchase and harboring of the items to make it unappealing.

 

[The Rabbi]

The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It's a terrible idea that won't work. What you do is increase the taxes on the purchase and harboring of the items to make it unappealing.

How will that help reduce violence of any kind?

 

[martybegan]

The assault weapons ban legislation put out yesterday got me thinking about when we enacted prohibition to halt the manufacture, transportation and sale of alcohol and alcoholic beverages as we know that ended up creating a bigger problem than the act was attempting to solve. Granted we are not talking about banning all guns like they were with alcohol this ban though does seem to be more far reaching than the last one so I wonder like prohibition could this ban end up causing more problems than it solves?

It's a terrible idea that won't work. What you do is increase the taxes on the purchase and harboring of the items to make it unappealing.

So basically you price poor people out of the ability to protect themselves.

How progressive.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay, only certain types of guns and ammo would be banned. There are lots of other guns to choose from.

Similary, we can ban Islam because you can still be a Jew.

Does that mean only bad guys will get assualt rifles? Has it not occurred to anyone that if the guns are banned then gun manufacturers will stop making them?

Like in 1994-2004, the manufacturers will modify their designs to comply with the law and continue build them.

If gun purchases are limited and require a background check, won't that make it harder for criminals to get guns by the crateload?
No. Criminals, as buyers or sellers, will not submit to background checks.

If owners are required to keep the guns in a safe, won't that make the guns harder to steal?

Only under limited circumstances.
it will, however, cost a number of gunowerns their lives as they will not have timely enough acess to their guns.

 

[The Rabbi]

D.C. required guns disassembled in the safe. First, it didnt reduce crime. Second, it was declared unconstitutional by the USSC.

 

[M14 Shooter]

OK, we repealed the 18th Amendment. That set a precedent, why can’t we repeal the second amendment?

Because you'll never get the votes necessary.

I can’t imagine how private gun ownership has helped ME feel free or be safe.

And that's enough to justify taking away the rights of the law abiding?

 

[Spoonman]

Okay, only certain types of guns and ammo would be banned. There are lots of other guns to choose from. It's not like having all hard alcohol and "good" beer removed and all we get is one brand of lite beer.

If the guns are banned, you can still keep the ones you have.

Does that mean only bad guys will get assualt rifles? Has it not occurred to anyone that if the guns are banned then gun manufacturers will stop making them? If gun purchases are limited and require a background check, won't that make it harder for criminals to get guns by the crateload? If owners are required to keep the guns in a safe, won't that make the guns harder to steal?

How about we ban certain types of speech, or certain religions? or maybe only certain types of men were created equal.

 

[Spoonman]

We could always ban guns like brazil, which has a higher homicide rate from guns then we do.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Before I can legally drive a car, I submit to a minimal background check.

But, not to buy a car, own a car, keep a car in your garage, or use it on private property.

Any responsible person would not be afraid of a background check on gun ownership.

Nor should they be afraid of the government monitoring their e-mails, bank accounts and cell conversations.

And leave big government out of this.

Big government is the force behind it.

As assault weapons have limited use for that type of situation.

'Assault weapons' are suitable for any legal purpose one might have for a gun.

My suggestion, is another approach. To turn of the burden of responsibility to make them less attractive. On assault weapons vs. Small handguns etc.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean.

 

[Underhill]

Is it ignorance or paranoia that drives some anti-gun nutters, or both?

It is not paranoia or ignorance to suggest that Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations - it's a fact.

Until you guys start addressing points like this with a little honesty, you are not really going to get to the starting point of this issue.

If you compare the murder rate in the US to the rest of the world, we don't fare too bad and that's WITH over 300,000,000 firearms, so 20 times more likely to die from a gunshot wound is a meaningless statistic. According to the FBI you have better chance of dying from a hammer strike than a rifle bullet, so who's bullcrapping who?

UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)
Country Rate Count Region Subregion
Burundi 21.7 1,726 Africa Eastern Africa
Comoros 12.2 85 Africa Eastern Africa Djibouti 3.4 29 Africa Eastern Africa
Eritrea 17.8 879 Africa Eastern Africa
Ethiopia 22.5 20,239 Africa Eastern Africa
Kenya 20.1 7,733 Africa Eastern Africa
Madagascar 8.1 1,588 Africa Eastern Africa
Mauritius 2.5 33 Africa Eastern Africa
Mozambique 8.8 1,925 Africa Eastern Africa
Rwanda 17.1 1,708 Africa Eastern Africa
Seychelles 8.3 7 Africa Eastern Africa
Somalia 1.5 138+ Africa Eastern Africa
Tanzania 24.5 10,357 Africa Eastern Africa
Zimbabwe 14.3 1,775 Africa Eastern Africa
Angola 19.0 3,426 Africa Middle Africa
Cameroon 19.7 3,700 Africa Middle Africa
Central African Republic 29.3 1,240 Africa Middle Africa
Chad 15.8 1,686 Africa Middle Africa
Congo 30.8 1,180 Africa Middle Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7 13,558 Africa Middle Africa
Equatorial Guinea 20.7 137 Africa Middle Africa
São Tomé and Príncipe 1.9 3 Africa Middle Africa
Gabon 13.8 200 Africa Middle Africa
Algeria 1.5 516 Africa Northern Africa
Egypt 1.2 992 Africa Northern Africa
Libya 2.9 176+ Africa Northern Africa
Morocco 1.4 447 Africa Northern Africa
Sudan 24.2 10,028++ Africa Northern Africa
Tunisia 1.1 117 Africa Northern Africa
Botswana 14.5 287 Africa Southern Africa
Lesotho 35.2 764 Africa Southern Africa
Namibia 17.2 352 Africa Southern Africa
South Africa 31.8 15,940 Africa Southern Africa
Swaziland 12.9 141 Africa Southern Africa
Benin 15.1 1,262 Africa Western Africa
Burkina Faso 18.0 2,876 Africa Western Africa
Cape Verde 11.6 56 Africa Western Africa
Côte d'Ivoire 56.9 10,801 Africa Western Africa
Gambia 10.8 106 Africa Western Africa
Ghana 15.7 3,646 Africa Western Africa
Guinea 22.5 2,152 Africa Western Africa
Guinea-Bissau 20.2 294 Africa Western Africa
Liberia 10.1 371 Africa Western Africa
Mali 8.0 1,157 Africa Western Africa
Mauritania 14.7 485 Africa Western Africa
Niger 3.8 552 Africa Western Africa
Nigeria 12.2 18,422 Africa Western Africa
Senegal 8.7 1,027 Africa Western Africa
Sierra Leone 14.9 837 Africa Western Africa
Togo 10.9 627 Africa Western Africa
Anguilla 6.8 1 Americas Caribbean
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8 6 Americas Caribbean
Bahamas 27.4 94 Americas Caribbean
Barbados 11.3 31 Americas Caribbean
British Virgin Islands 8.6 2 Americas Caribbean
Cayman Islands 8.4 5 Americas Caribbean
Cuba 5.0 563 Americas Caribbean
Dominica 22.1 15 Americas Caribbean
Dominican Republic 25.0 2,513 Americas Caribbean
Grenada 11.5 12 Americas Caribbean
Guadeloupe 7.0 32 Americas Caribbean
Haiti 6.9 689 Americas Caribbean
Jamaica 52.2 1,430 Americas Caribbean
Martinique 4.2 17 Americas Caribbean
Montserrat 19.7 1 Americas Caribbean
Puerto Rico 26.2 983 Americas Caribbean
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 20 Americas Caribbean
Saint Lucia 25.2 44 Americas Caribbean
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9 25 Americas Caribbean
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2 472 Americas Caribbean
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7 3 Americas Caribbean
U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2 43 Americas Caribbean
Belize 41.4 129 Americas Central America
Costa Rica 10.0 474 Americas Central America
El Salvador 69.2 4,308 Americas Central America
Guatemala 38.5 5,681 Americas Central America
Honduras 91.6 7,104 Americas Central America
Mexico 22.7 25,757+ Americas Northern America
Nicaragua 13.6 785 Americas Central America
Panama 21.6 759 Americas Central America
Bermuda 12.3 8 Americas Northern America Canada 1.6 554 Americas Northern America
United States 4.8 14,748 Americas Northern America
Argentina 3.4 1,360 Americas South America
Bolivia 8.9 884 Americas South America
Brazil 21.0 40,974 Americas South America
Chile 3.2 541 Americas South America
Colombia 31.0 14,670+[9] Americas South America
Ecuador 15.2 2,638 Americas South America
French Guiana 13.3 30 Americas South America
Guyana 18.6 140 Americas South America
Paraguay 11.5 741 Americas South America
Peru 10.3 2,969 Americas South America
Suriname 4.6 24 Americas South America
Uruguay 5.9 199 Americas South America
Venezuela 45.1 13,080 Americas South America
Kazakhstan 8.8 1,418 Asia Central Asia
Kyrgyzstan 20.1 1,072 Asia Central Asia
Tajikistan 2.1 143 Asia Central Asia
Turkmenistan 4.2 203 Asia Central Asia
Uzbekistan 3.1 831 Asia Central Asia
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia
Taiwan 3.2 743 Asia Eastern Asia
North Korea 15.2 3,658 Asia Eastern Asia
Hong Kong 0.2 17 Asia Eastern Asia
Japan 0.4 506 Asia Eastern Asia
Macau 0.7 4 Asia Eastern Asia
Mongolia 8.7 239 Asia Eastern Asia
South Korea 2.6 1,251 Asia Eastern Asia
Brunei 0.5 2 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Cambodia 3.4 448 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Indonesia 8.1 18,963 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Laos 4.6 279 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Malaysia 2.3 604 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Myanmar 10.2 4,800 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Philippines 5.4 4,947 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Singapore 0.3 16 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Thailand 4.8 3,307 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Timor-Leste 6.9 75 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Vietnam 1.6 1,346 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Afghanistan 2.4 712+ Asia Southern Asia
Bangladesh 2.7 3,988 Asia Southern Asia
Bhutan 1.0 7 Asia Southern Asia
India 3.4 40,752+ Asia Southern Asia
Iran 3.0 2,215 Asia Southern Asia
Maldives 1.6 5 Asia Southern Asia
Nepal 2.8 818 Asia Southern Asia
Pakistan 7.8 13,860+ Asia Southern Asia
Sri Lanka 3.6 745 Asia Southern Asia
Armenia 1.4 44 Asia Western Asia
Azerbaijan 2.2 206 Asia Western Asia
Bahrain 0.6 6 Asia Western Asia
Cyprus 1.7 19 Asia Western Asia
Iraq 2.0 608+ Asia Western Asia
Israel 2.1 159+ Asia Western Asia
Jordan 1.8 100 Asia Western Asia
Kuwait 2.2 59 Asia Western Asia
Lebanon 2.2 95 Asia Western Asia
Palestine 4.1 145+ Asia Western Asia
Oman 0.7 18 Asia Western Asia
Qatar 0.9 13 Asia Western Asia
Saudi Arabia 1.0 265+ Asia Western Asia
Syria 2.3 463+ Asia Western Asia
Turkey 3.3 2,320 Asia Western Asia
United Arab Emirates 0.8 39 Asia Western Asia
Yemen 4.2 990+ Asia Western Asia
Belarus 4.9 473 Europe Eastern Europe
Bulgaria 2.0 147 Europe Eastern Europe
Czech Republic 1.7 181 Europe Eastern Europe
Georgia 4.3 187 Europe Eastern Europe
Hungary 1.3 133 Europe Eastern Europe
Poland 1.1 436 Europe Eastern Europe
Moldova 7.5 267 Europe Eastern Europe
Romania 2.0 421 Europe Eastern Europe
Russia 10.2 14,574 Europe Eastern Europe
Slovakia 1.5 84 Europe Eastern Europe
Ukraine 5.2 2,356 Europe Eastern Europe
Denmark 0.9 47 Europe Northern Europe
Estonia 5.2 70 Europe Northern Europe
Finland 2.2 118 Europe Northern Europe
Greenland 19.2 11 Europe Northern Europe
Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe
Ireland 1.2 54 Europe Northern Europe
Latvia 3.1 70 Europe Northern Europe
Lithuania 6.6 219 Europe Northern Europe
Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe
Sweden 1.0 91 Europe Northern Europe
United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe
Albania 4.0 127 Europe Southern Europe
Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 56 Europe Southern Europe
Croatia 1.4 62 Europe Southern Europe
Greece 1.5 176 Europe Southern Europe
Italy 0.9 529 Europe Southern Europe
Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe
Montenegro 3.5 22 Europe Southern Europe
Portugal 1.2 124 Europe Southern Europe
Serbia 1.2 123 Europe Southern Europe
Slovenia 0.7 15 Europe Southern Europe
Spain 0.8 390 Europe Southern Europe
Macedonia 1.9 40 Europe Southern Europe
Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe
Belgium 1.7 180 Europe Western Europe
France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe
Germany 0.8 690 Europe Western Europe
Liechtenstein 2.8 1 Europe Western Europe
Luxembourg 2.5 12 Europe Western Europe
Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe
Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe
Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe
Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia
New Zealand 0.9 39 Oceania Australasia
Fiji 2.8 23 Oceania Melanesia
Papua New Guinea 13.0 854 Oceania Melanesia
Solomon Islands 3.7 19 Oceania Melanesia
Vanuatu 0.9 2 Oceania Melanesia
Guam 0.6 1 Oceania Micronesia
Kiribati 7.3 7 Oceania Micronesia
Federated States of Micronesia 0.9 1 Oceania Micronesia
Nauru 9.8 1 Oceania Micronesia
Palau 0.0 0 Oceania Micronesia
French Polynesia 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia
Samoa 1.1 2 Oceania Polynesia
Tonga 1.0 1 Oceania Polynesia



http://UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)

I get your point.

On the other hand it strikes me, looking at the list, that most all of those countries with higher rates than ours are 2nd and 3rd world countries....

 

[Spoonman]

It is not paranoia or ignorance to suggest that Americans are 20 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds that citizens of similar nations - it's a fact.

Until you guys start addressing points like this with a little honesty, you are not really going to get to the starting point of this issue.

If you compare the murder rate in the US to the rest of the world, we don't fare too bad and that's WITH over 300,000,000 firearms, so 20 times more likely to die from a gunshot wound is a meaningless statistic. According to the FBI you have better chance of dying from a hammer strike than a rifle bullet, so who's bullcrapping who?

UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)
Country Rate Count Region Subregion
Burundi 21.7 1,726 Africa Eastern Africa
Comoros 12.2 85 Africa Eastern Africa Djibouti 3.4 29 Africa Eastern Africa
Eritrea 17.8 879 Africa Eastern Africa
Ethiopia 22.5 20,239 Africa Eastern Africa
Kenya 20.1 7,733 Africa Eastern Africa
Madagascar 8.1 1,588 Africa Eastern Africa
Mauritius 2.5 33 Africa Eastern Africa
Mozambique 8.8 1,925 Africa Eastern Africa
Rwanda 17.1 1,708 Africa Eastern Africa
Seychelles 8.3 7 Africa Eastern Africa
Somalia 1.5 138+ Africa Eastern Africa
Tanzania 24.5 10,357 Africa Eastern Africa
Zimbabwe 14.3 1,775 Africa Eastern Africa
Angola 19.0 3,426 Africa Middle Africa
Cameroon 19.7 3,700 Africa Middle Africa
Central African Republic 29.3 1,240 Africa Middle Africa
Chad 15.8 1,686 Africa Middle Africa
Congo 30.8 1,180 Africa Middle Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7 13,558 Africa Middle Africa
Equatorial Guinea 20.7 137 Africa Middle Africa
São Tomé and Príncipe 1.9 3 Africa Middle Africa
Gabon 13.8 200 Africa Middle Africa
Algeria 1.5 516 Africa Northern Africa
Egypt 1.2 992 Africa Northern Africa
Libya 2.9 176+ Africa Northern Africa
Morocco 1.4 447 Africa Northern Africa
Sudan 24.2 10,028++ Africa Northern Africa
Tunisia 1.1 117 Africa Northern Africa
Botswana 14.5 287 Africa Southern Africa
Lesotho 35.2 764 Africa Southern Africa
Namibia 17.2 352 Africa Southern Africa
South Africa 31.8 15,940 Africa Southern Africa
Swaziland 12.9 141 Africa Southern Africa
Benin 15.1 1,262 Africa Western Africa
Burkina Faso 18.0 2,876 Africa Western Africa
Cape Verde 11.6 56 Africa Western Africa
Côte d'Ivoire 56.9 10,801 Africa Western Africa
Gambia 10.8 106 Africa Western Africa
Ghana 15.7 3,646 Africa Western Africa
Guinea 22.5 2,152 Africa Western Africa
Guinea-Bissau 20.2 294 Africa Western Africa
Liberia 10.1 371 Africa Western Africa
Mali 8.0 1,157 Africa Western Africa
Mauritania 14.7 485 Africa Western Africa
Niger 3.8 552 Africa Western Africa
Nigeria 12.2 18,422 Africa Western Africa
Senegal 8.7 1,027 Africa Western Africa
Sierra Leone 14.9 837 Africa Western Africa
Togo 10.9 627 Africa Western Africa
Anguilla 6.8 1 Americas Caribbean
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8 6 Americas Caribbean
Bahamas 27.4 94 Americas Caribbean
Barbados 11.3 31 Americas Caribbean
British Virgin Islands 8.6 2 Americas Caribbean
Cayman Islands 8.4 5 Americas Caribbean
Cuba 5.0 563 Americas Caribbean
Dominica 22.1 15 Americas Caribbean
Dominican Republic 25.0 2,513 Americas Caribbean
Grenada 11.5 12 Americas Caribbean
Guadeloupe 7.0 32 Americas Caribbean
Haiti 6.9 689 Americas Caribbean
Jamaica 52.2 1,430 Americas Caribbean
Martinique 4.2 17 Americas Caribbean
Montserrat 19.7 1 Americas Caribbean
Puerto Rico 26.2 983 Americas Caribbean
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 20 Americas Caribbean
Saint Lucia 25.2 44 Americas Caribbean
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9 25 Americas Caribbean
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2 472 Americas Caribbean
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7 3 Americas Caribbean
U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2 43 Americas Caribbean
Belize 41.4 129 Americas Central America
Costa Rica 10.0 474 Americas Central America
El Salvador 69.2 4,308 Americas Central America
Guatemala 38.5 5,681 Americas Central America
Honduras 91.6 7,104 Americas Central America
Mexico 22.7 25,757+ Americas Northern America
Nicaragua 13.6 785 Americas Central America
Panama 21.6 759 Americas Central America
Bermuda 12.3 8 Americas Northern America Canada 1.6 554 Americas Northern America
United States 4.8 14,748 Americas Northern America
Argentina 3.4 1,360 Americas South America
Bolivia 8.9 884 Americas South America
Brazil 21.0 40,974 Americas South America
Chile 3.2 541 Americas South America
Colombia 31.0 14,670+[9] Americas South America
Ecuador 15.2 2,638 Americas South America
French Guiana 13.3 30 Americas South America
Guyana 18.6 140 Americas South America
Paraguay 11.5 741 Americas South America
Peru 10.3 2,969 Americas South America
Suriname 4.6 24 Americas South America
Uruguay 5.9 199 Americas South America
Venezuela 45.1 13,080 Americas South America
Kazakhstan 8.8 1,418 Asia Central Asia
Kyrgyzstan 20.1 1,072 Asia Central Asia
Tajikistan 2.1 143 Asia Central Asia
Turkmenistan 4.2 203 Asia Central Asia
Uzbekistan 3.1 831 Asia Central Asia
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia
Taiwan 3.2 743 Asia Eastern Asia
North Korea 15.2 3,658 Asia Eastern Asia
Hong Kong 0.2 17 Asia Eastern Asia
Japan 0.4 506 Asia Eastern Asia
Macau 0.7 4 Asia Eastern Asia
Mongolia 8.7 239 Asia Eastern Asia
South Korea 2.6 1,251 Asia Eastern Asia
Brunei 0.5 2 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Cambodia 3.4 448 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Indonesia 8.1 18,963 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Laos 4.6 279 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Malaysia 2.3 604 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Myanmar 10.2 4,800 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Philippines 5.4 4,947 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Singapore 0.3 16 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Thailand 4.8 3,307 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Timor-Leste 6.9 75 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Vietnam 1.6 1,346 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Afghanistan 2.4 712+ Asia Southern Asia
Bangladesh 2.7 3,988 Asia Southern Asia
Bhutan 1.0 7 Asia Southern Asia
India 3.4 40,752+ Asia Southern Asia
Iran 3.0 2,215 Asia Southern Asia
Maldives 1.6 5 Asia Southern Asia
Nepal 2.8 818 Asia Southern Asia
Pakistan 7.8 13,860+ Asia Southern Asia
Sri Lanka 3.6 745 Asia Southern Asia
Armenia 1.4 44 Asia Western Asia
Azerbaijan 2.2 206 Asia Western Asia
Bahrain 0.6 6 Asia Western Asia
Cyprus 1.7 19 Asia Western Asia
Iraq 2.0 608+ Asia Western Asia
Israel 2.1 159+ Asia Western Asia
Jordan 1.8 100 Asia Western Asia
Kuwait 2.2 59 Asia Western Asia
Lebanon 2.2 95 Asia Western Asia
Palestine 4.1 145+ Asia Western Asia
Oman 0.7 18 Asia Western Asia
Qatar 0.9 13 Asia Western Asia
Saudi Arabia 1.0 265+ Asia Western Asia
Syria 2.3 463+ Asia Western Asia
Turkey 3.3 2,320 Asia Western Asia
United Arab Emirates 0.8 39 Asia Western Asia
Yemen 4.2 990+ Asia Western Asia
Belarus 4.9 473 Europe Eastern Europe
Bulgaria 2.0 147 Europe Eastern Europe
Czech Republic 1.7 181 Europe Eastern Europe
Georgia 4.3 187 Europe Eastern Europe
Hungary 1.3 133 Europe Eastern Europe
Poland 1.1 436 Europe Eastern Europe
Moldova 7.5 267 Europe Eastern Europe
Romania 2.0 421 Europe Eastern Europe
Russia 10.2 14,574 Europe Eastern Europe
Slovakia 1.5 84 Europe Eastern Europe
Ukraine 5.2 2,356 Europe Eastern Europe
Denmark 0.9 47 Europe Northern Europe
Estonia 5.2 70 Europe Northern Europe
Finland 2.2 118 Europe Northern Europe
Greenland 19.2 11 Europe Northern Europe
Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe
Ireland 1.2 54 Europe Northern Europe
Latvia 3.1 70 Europe Northern Europe
Lithuania 6.6 219 Europe Northern Europe
Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe
Sweden 1.0 91 Europe Northern Europe
United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe
Albania 4.0 127 Europe Southern Europe
Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 56 Europe Southern Europe
Croatia 1.4 62 Europe Southern Europe
Greece 1.5 176 Europe Southern Europe
Italy 0.9 529 Europe Southern Europe
Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe
Montenegro 3.5 22 Europe Southern Europe
Portugal 1.2 124 Europe Southern Europe
Serbia 1.2 123 Europe Southern Europe
Slovenia 0.7 15 Europe Southern Europe
Spain 0.8 390 Europe Southern Europe
Macedonia 1.9 40 Europe Southern Europe
Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe
Belgium 1.7 180 Europe Western Europe
France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe
Germany 0.8 690 Europe Western Europe
Liechtenstein 2.8 1 Europe Western Europe
Luxembourg 2.5 12 Europe Western Europe
Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe
Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe
Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe
Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia
New Zealand 0.9 39 Oceania Australasia
Fiji 2.8 23 Oceania Melanesia
Papua New Guinea 13.0 854 Oceania Melanesia
Solomon Islands 3.7 19 Oceania Melanesia
Vanuatu 0.9 2 Oceania Melanesia
Guam 0.6 1 Oceania Micronesia
Kiribati 7.3 7 Oceania Micronesia
Federated States of Micronesia 0.9 1 Oceania Micronesia
Nauru 9.8 1 Oceania Micronesia
Palau 0.0 0 Oceania Micronesia
French Polynesia 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia
Samoa 1.1 2 Oceania Polynesia
Tonga 1.0 1 Oceania Polynesia



http://UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)

I get your point.

On the other hand it strikes me, looking at the list, that most all of those countries with higher rates than ours are 2nd and 3rd world countries....

half the population of the US is from those countries now

 

[Underhill]

If you compare the murder rate in the US to the rest of the world, we don't fare too bad and that's WITH over 300,000,000 firearms, so 20 times more likely to die from a gunshot wound is a meaningless statistic. According to the FBI you have better chance of dying from a hammer strike than a rifle bullet, so who's bullcrapping who?

UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)
Country Rate Count Region Subregion
Burundi 21.7 1,726 Africa Eastern Africa
Comoros 12.2 85 Africa Eastern Africa Djibouti 3.4 29 Africa Eastern Africa
Eritrea 17.8 879 Africa Eastern Africa
Ethiopia 22.5 20,239 Africa Eastern Africa
Kenya 20.1 7,733 Africa Eastern Africa
Madagascar 8.1 1,588 Africa Eastern Africa
Mauritius 2.5 33 Africa Eastern Africa
Mozambique 8.8 1,925 Africa Eastern Africa
Rwanda 17.1 1,708 Africa Eastern Africa
Seychelles 8.3 7 Africa Eastern Africa
Somalia 1.5 138+ Africa Eastern Africa
Tanzania 24.5 10,357 Africa Eastern Africa
Zimbabwe 14.3 1,775 Africa Eastern Africa
Angola 19.0 3,426 Africa Middle Africa
Cameroon 19.7 3,700 Africa Middle Africa
Central African Republic 29.3 1,240 Africa Middle Africa
Chad 15.8 1,686 Africa Middle Africa
Congo 30.8 1,180 Africa Middle Africa
Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7 13,558 Africa Middle Africa
Equatorial Guinea 20.7 137 Africa Middle Africa
São Tomé and Príncipe 1.9 3 Africa Middle Africa
Gabon 13.8 200 Africa Middle Africa
Algeria 1.5 516 Africa Northern Africa
Egypt 1.2 992 Africa Northern Africa
Libya 2.9 176+ Africa Northern Africa
Morocco 1.4 447 Africa Northern Africa
Sudan 24.2 10,028++ Africa Northern Africa
Tunisia 1.1 117 Africa Northern Africa
Botswana 14.5 287 Africa Southern Africa
Lesotho 35.2 764 Africa Southern Africa
Namibia 17.2 352 Africa Southern Africa
South Africa 31.8 15,940 Africa Southern Africa
Swaziland 12.9 141 Africa Southern Africa
Benin 15.1 1,262 Africa Western Africa
Burkina Faso 18.0 2,876 Africa Western Africa
Cape Verde 11.6 56 Africa Western Africa
Côte d'Ivoire 56.9 10,801 Africa Western Africa
Gambia 10.8 106 Africa Western Africa
Ghana 15.7 3,646 Africa Western Africa
Guinea 22.5 2,152 Africa Western Africa
Guinea-Bissau 20.2 294 Africa Western Africa
Liberia 10.1 371 Africa Western Africa
Mali 8.0 1,157 Africa Western Africa
Mauritania 14.7 485 Africa Western Africa
Niger 3.8 552 Africa Western Africa
Nigeria 12.2 18,422 Africa Western Africa
Senegal 8.7 1,027 Africa Western Africa
Sierra Leone 14.9 837 Africa Western Africa
Togo 10.9 627 Africa Western Africa
Anguilla 6.8 1 Americas Caribbean
Antigua and Barbuda 6.8 6 Americas Caribbean
Bahamas 27.4 94 Americas Caribbean
Barbados 11.3 31 Americas Caribbean
British Virgin Islands 8.6 2 Americas Caribbean
Cayman Islands 8.4 5 Americas Caribbean
Cuba 5.0 563 Americas Caribbean
Dominica 22.1 15 Americas Caribbean
Dominican Republic 25.0 2,513 Americas Caribbean
Grenada 11.5 12 Americas Caribbean
Guadeloupe 7.0 32 Americas Caribbean
Haiti 6.9 689 Americas Caribbean
Jamaica 52.2 1,430 Americas Caribbean
Martinique 4.2 17 Americas Caribbean
Montserrat 19.7 1 Americas Caribbean
Puerto Rico 26.2 983 Americas Caribbean
Saint Kitts and Nevis 38.2 20 Americas Caribbean
Saint Lucia 25.2 44 Americas Caribbean
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9 25 Americas Caribbean
Trinidad and Tobago 35.2 472 Americas Caribbean
Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7 3 Americas Caribbean
U.S. Virgin Islands 39.2 43 Americas Caribbean
Belize 41.4 129 Americas Central America
Costa Rica 10.0 474 Americas Central America
El Salvador 69.2 4,308 Americas Central America
Guatemala 38.5 5,681 Americas Central America
Honduras 91.6 7,104 Americas Central America
Mexico 22.7 25,757+ Americas Northern America
Nicaragua 13.6 785 Americas Central America
Panama 21.6 759 Americas Central America
Bermuda 12.3 8 Americas Northern America Canada 1.6 554 Americas Northern America
United States 4.8 14,748 Americas Northern America
Argentina 3.4 1,360 Americas South America
Bolivia 8.9 884 Americas South America
Brazil 21.0 40,974 Americas South America
Chile 3.2 541 Americas South America
Colombia 31.0 14,670+[9] Americas South America
Ecuador 15.2 2,638 Americas South America
French Guiana 13.3 30 Americas South America
Guyana 18.6 140 Americas South America
Paraguay 11.5 741 Americas South America
Peru 10.3 2,969 Americas South America
Suriname 4.6 24 Americas South America
Uruguay 5.9 199 Americas South America
Venezuela 45.1 13,080 Americas South America
Kazakhstan 8.8 1,418 Asia Central Asia
Kyrgyzstan 20.1 1,072 Asia Central Asia
Tajikistan 2.1 143 Asia Central Asia
Turkmenistan 4.2 203 Asia Central Asia
Uzbekistan 3.1 831 Asia Central Asia
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia
Taiwan 3.2 743 Asia Eastern Asia
North Korea 15.2 3,658 Asia Eastern Asia
Hong Kong 0.2 17 Asia Eastern Asia
Japan 0.4 506 Asia Eastern Asia
Macau 0.7 4 Asia Eastern Asia
Mongolia 8.7 239 Asia Eastern Asia
South Korea 2.6 1,251 Asia Eastern Asia
Brunei 0.5 2 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Cambodia 3.4 448 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Indonesia 8.1 18,963 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Laos 4.6 279 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Malaysia 2.3 604 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Myanmar 10.2 4,800 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Philippines 5.4 4,947 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Singapore 0.3 16 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Thailand 4.8 3,307 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Timor-Leste 6.9 75 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Vietnam 1.6 1,346 Asia South-Eastern Asia
Afghanistan 2.4 712+ Asia Southern Asia
Bangladesh 2.7 3,988 Asia Southern Asia
Bhutan 1.0 7 Asia Southern Asia
India 3.4 40,752+ Asia Southern Asia
Iran 3.0 2,215 Asia Southern Asia
Maldives 1.6 5 Asia Southern Asia
Nepal 2.8 818 Asia Southern Asia
Pakistan 7.8 13,860+ Asia Southern Asia
Sri Lanka 3.6 745 Asia Southern Asia
Armenia 1.4 44 Asia Western Asia
Azerbaijan 2.2 206 Asia Western Asia
Bahrain 0.6 6 Asia Western Asia
Cyprus 1.7 19 Asia Western Asia
Iraq 2.0 608+ Asia Western Asia
Israel 2.1 159+ Asia Western Asia
Jordan 1.8 100 Asia Western Asia
Kuwait 2.2 59 Asia Western Asia
Lebanon 2.2 95 Asia Western Asia
Palestine 4.1 145+ Asia Western Asia
Oman 0.7 18 Asia Western Asia
Qatar 0.9 13 Asia Western Asia
Saudi Arabia 1.0 265+ Asia Western Asia
Syria 2.3 463+ Asia Western Asia
Turkey 3.3 2,320 Asia Western Asia
United Arab Emirates 0.8 39 Asia Western Asia
Yemen 4.2 990+ Asia Western Asia
Belarus 4.9 473 Europe Eastern Europe
Bulgaria 2.0 147 Europe Eastern Europe
Czech Republic 1.7 181 Europe Eastern Europe
Georgia 4.3 187 Europe Eastern Europe
Hungary 1.3 133 Europe Eastern Europe
Poland 1.1 436 Europe Eastern Europe
Moldova 7.5 267 Europe Eastern Europe
Romania 2.0 421 Europe Eastern Europe
Russia 10.2 14,574 Europe Eastern Europe
Slovakia 1.5 84 Europe Eastern Europe
Ukraine 5.2 2,356 Europe Eastern Europe
Denmark 0.9 47 Europe Northern Europe
Estonia 5.2 70 Europe Northern Europe
Finland 2.2 118 Europe Northern Europe
Greenland 19.2 11 Europe Northern Europe
Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe
Ireland 1.2 54 Europe Northern Europe
Latvia 3.1 70 Europe Northern Europe
Lithuania 6.6 219 Europe Northern Europe
Norway 0.6 29 Europe Northern Europe
Sweden 1.0 91 Europe Northern Europe
United Kingdom 1.2 722 Europe Northern Europe
Albania 4.0 127 Europe Southern Europe
Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.5 56 Europe Southern Europe
Croatia 1.4 62 Europe Southern Europe
Greece 1.5 176 Europe Southern Europe
Italy 0.9 529 Europe Southern Europe
Malta 1.0 4 Europe Southern Europe
Montenegro 3.5 22 Europe Southern Europe
Portugal 1.2 124 Europe Southern Europe
Serbia 1.2 123 Europe Southern Europe
Slovenia 0.7 15 Europe Southern Europe
Spain 0.8 390 Europe Southern Europe
Macedonia 1.9 40 Europe Southern Europe
Austria 0.6 56 Europe Western Europe
Belgium 1.7 180 Europe Western Europe
France 1.1 682 Europe Western Europe
Germany 0.8 690 Europe Western Europe
Liechtenstein 2.8 1 Europe Western Europe
Luxembourg 2.5 12 Europe Western Europe
Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe
Netherlands 1.1 179 Europe Western Europe
Switzerland 0.7 52 Europe Western Europe
Australia 1.0 229 Oceania Australasia
New Zealand 0.9 39 Oceania Australasia
Fiji 2.8 23 Oceania Melanesia
Papua New Guinea 13.0 854 Oceania Melanesia
Solomon Islands 3.7 19 Oceania Melanesia
Vanuatu 0.9 2 Oceania Melanesia
Guam 0.6 1 Oceania Micronesia
Kiribati 7.3 7 Oceania Micronesia
Federated States of Micronesia 0.9 1 Oceania Micronesia
Nauru 9.8 1 Oceania Micronesia
Palau 0.0 0 Oceania Micronesia
French Polynesia 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia
Samoa 1.1 2 Oceania Polynesia
Tonga 1.0 1 Oceania Polynesia



http://UNODC murder rates most recent year (full table here)

I get your point.

On the other hand it strikes me, looking at the list, that most all of those countries with higher rates than ours are 2nd and 3rd world countries....

half the population of the US is from those countries now

It's not. Not even remotely close.

And while I get your point, my family was Irish. If you know your history you know people have been complaining about those coming into this country since the indians said, "WTF!" upon seeing the first sail on the horizon.

 

[Snookie]

Okay, only certain types of guns and ammo would be banned. There are lots of other guns to choose from.

Similary, we can ban Islam because you can still be a Jew.

Does that mean only bad guys will get assualt rifles? Has it not occurred to anyone that if the guns are banned then gun manufacturers will stop making them?

Like in 1994-2004, the manufacturers will modify their designs to comply with the law and continue build them.

If gun purchases are limited and require a background check, won't that make it harder for criminals to get guns by the crateload?
No. Criminals, as buyers or sellers, will not submit to background checks.

If owners are required to keep the guns in a safe, won't that make the guns harder to steal?

Only under limited circumstances.
it will, however, cost a number of gunowerns their lives as they will not have timely enough acess to their guns.

Paranoia!

 

[Spoonman]

Okay, only certain types of guns and ammo would be banned. There are lots of other guns to choose from.

Similary, we can ban Islam because you can still be a Jew.


Like in 1994-2004, the manufacturers will modify their designs to comply with the law and continue build them.

If gun purchases are limited and require a background check, won't that make it harder for criminals to get guns by the crateload?
No. Criminals, as buyers or sellers, will not submit to background checks.

If owners are required to keep the guns in a safe, won't that make the guns harder to steal?

Only under limited circumstances.
it will, however, cost a number of gunowerns their lives as they will not have timely enough acess to their guns.

Paranoia!

paranoia is wanting to ban guns

 

[M14 Shooter]

Similary, we can ban Islam because you can still be a Jew.


Like in 1994-2004, the manufacturers will modify their designs to comply with the law and continue build them.

If gun purchases are limited and require a background check, won't that make it harder for criminals to get guns by the crateload?
No. Criminals, as buyers or sellers, will not submit to background checks.


Only under limited circumstances.
it will, however, cost a number of gunowerns their lives as they will not have timely enough acess to their guns.

Paranoia!

paranoia is wanting to ban guns

Nah.
There's two kinds of people in this regard:
1: Those who believe that the state should have a monopoly on force and that an armed citizenry gets in the way of that
2: The useful idiots that buy into the lies from the group noted above that gun control will improve public safety.

 

[PaulS1950]

There are over two million examples each year of people protecting themselves and others with their own firearms. If you add those people to those involved in violent crime you can get an idea of where the violent crime rate would be after disarming those legal gun owners.

If you don't like guns then don't buy one. Just because you don't like something is no reason to keep others from enjoying their legal guns. (including semi-automatic guns)