Zone1 Atheism Has No Basis for the Idea of Good or Evil, Just or Unjust

[ding]

If you're talking about life, we obviously exist and inhabit a world that didn't exist 4.5 billion years ago. Seems logical to me to believe there was a time when we didn't exist but the creation of our world led to the creation of life. If you're talking about the universe existing, I don't know and I don't believe any else knows either.

I'm talking about existence itself. Go beyond this universe. Do you think that existence just pops into being uncaused? Because I find that to be illogical. I don't know of anything which is uncaused. So you must believe that there is an infinite sequence of causes which I I find to be illogical. So I am left with the only logical answer possible - which no matter how improbable it seems to be is the only logical possibility - that there must be an uncaused first cause that must be eternal (no beginning or ending) and is unchanging.

So now do you understand me? Is there anything else you don't understand about me?

 

[Natural Citizen]

I don't know of anything which is uncaused. So you must believe that there is an infinite sequence of causes which I find to be illogical.

Well what caused God, then? As you say, logically speaking.

 

[Blues Man]

And you don't see the flaw in your logic? Do you have an direct evidence of God killing anyone? Have you personally witnessed God killing anyone?

You have no direct evidence f the existence of god. You never personally saw your god yet you insist it exists.

 

[Blues Man]

I'm talking about existence itself. Go beyond this universe. Do you think that existence just pops into being uncaused? Because I find that to be illogical. I don't know of anything which is uncaused. So you must believe that there is an infinite sequence of causes which I I find to be illogical. So I am left with the only logical answer possible - which no matter how improbable it seems to be is the only logical possibility - that there must be an uncaused first cause that must be eternal (no beginning or ending) and is unchanging.

So now do you understand me? Is there anything else you don't understand about me?

If your god can be uncaused why can't the cosmos be uncaused?

You just arbitrarily pick something to be the uncaused cause and you call it a god then you make up a human personality for it

No to mention you are trying to apply Newtonian physics the quantum field where it doesn't work

 

[Blues Man]

Well what caused God, then? As you say, logically speaking.

This is the arbitrary stopping point.

 

[Blues Man]

You misspelled perceptions of God. You make the arguments of an eight year old.

Says the guy who believes in imaginary, magic friends.

 

[ding]

Well what caused God, then? As you say, logically speaking.

God is eternal and thus uncaused. It's the only solution to the first cause conundrum.

 

[ding]

You have no direct evidence f the existence of god. You never personally saw your god yet you insist it exists.

Creation and everything which unfolded from it is the evidence for God.

 

[ding]

If your god can be uncaused why can't the cosmos be uncaused?

You just arbitrarily pick something to be the uncaused cause and you call it a god then you make up a human personality for it

No to mention you are trying to apply Newtonian physics the quantum field where it doesn't work

Because we know the "cosmos" had a beginning and a cause for that beginning.

I did not just arbitrarily pick something to be the uncaused cause. I defined the attributes the uncuased cause must have; eternal and unchanging. Then I asked myself if there was anything which had those attributes and there is; truth and reality. God is truth. God is reality.

 

[ding]

Says the guy who believes in imaginary, magic friends.

Says the guy who tested it and found that God isn't imaginary.

 

[Blues Man]

Creation and everything which unfolded from it is the evidence for God.

No it's not.

We don't know how the universe came to be and you just made up a character to explain it.

 

[Blues Man]

Says the guy who tested it and found that God isn't imaginary.

Faith is not testing

Faith in intellectual laziness.

 

[Blues Man]

Because we know the "cosmos" had a beginning and a cause for that beginning.

I did not just arbitrarily pick something to be the uncaused cause. I defined the attributes the uncuased cause must have; eternal and unchanging. Then I asked myself if there was anything which had those attributes and there is; truth and reality. God is truth. God is reality.

No we don't. because we do not know what existed before what we call the beginning of the universe.

You ASSume it was nothing but you do not know nor can you prove it.

 

[ding]

No it's not.

We don't know how the universe came to be and you just made up a character to explain it.

Logic is reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. According to the strict rules of validity, an argument is valid if the premises and conclusion are related to each other in the right way so that if the premises were true, then the conclusion would have to be true as well.

The premise is that the universe was created intentionally. The evidence for this premise is the creation of the universe and the evolution of space and time. The conclusion is God exists. So you can't dismiss the premise just because you don't know how the universe began. Why? Because you know the universe did begin. You know the universe evolved until beings that know and create arose. This is evidence. You can't dismiss the evidence by dismissing the conclusion which is how the universe began.

 

[ding]

Faith is not testing

Faith in intellectual laziness.

Faith is having complete trust in something or someone. People don't put complete trust in something or someone without good reason. So testing is complimentary to faith.

 

[ding]

No we don't. because we do not know what existed before what we call the beginning of the universe.

You ASSume it was nothing but you do not know nor can you prove it.

Yes, we do know the universe began. You don't need to know what existed before the universe to know the universe began. Tons of scientific evidence for the universe beginning. No evidence whatsoever for the universe not beginning. The evidence shows the universe has not existed forever.

 

[forkup]

Because we know the "cosmos" had a beginning and a cause for that beginning.

I did not just arbitrarily pick something to be the uncaused cause. I defined the attributes the uncuased cause must have; eternal and unchanging. Then I asked myself if there was anything which had those attributes and there is; truth and reality. God is truth. God is reality.

Your entire reasoning is circular. "God is truth. God is reality?" You simply assert God when you don't know something. Not to mention that in order to get there you have to assume a whole lot.

We don't know what the beginning of the Cosmos actually means Nor it's cause. Sure it began, but that just means the concept of time started. There's no more reason to insert God in there than there is for a so far not understood natural reason.

It's simply another God of the gaps argument. As there have been thousands.

God's have been inserted in the unexplained since they were invented. I'm guessing you don't believe in Zeus, Thor, Krishna, Buddha, etc.etc.

Even more, the overwhelming majority of the times they tried, the assertion has been proven false. Poseidon doesn't cause storms. Misfortune is not the fault of Loki. Even,even, more than that even within Christianity the understanding of the natural world has caused the Bible to be reinterpreted less and less literally. It's the same for all religions.

But I'm sure you inserting God as the reason for the Big Bang is completely different.

 

[ding]

Your entire reasoning is circular. "God is truth. God is reality?"

God is truth, God is reality is the conclusion of my reasoning not the reasoning. So how can you say my reasoning is circular when you don't know what my reasoning is?

 

[ding]

You simply assert God when you don't know something. Not to mention that I'm order to get there you have to assume a whole lot.

Incorrect. I did not simply assert God. I concluded God. What's my reasoning for my conclusion that God is truth, God is reality? Bet you can't state it.

 

[ding]

We don't know what the beginning of the Cosmos actually means Nor it's cause. Sure it began, but that just means the concept of time started. There's no more reason to insert God in there than there is for a so far not understood natural reason.

I already addressed this in post #296. You don't need to know what existed before the universe to know the universe began or even the cause because that's the conclusion not the assertion. Tons of scientific evidence for the universe beginning. No evidence whatsoever for the universe not beginning. The evidence shows the universe has not existed forever.