Atheism Is Not A Religion!!!

[Hollie]

you say you believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists

I never said I believe in any of that. Not all theists believe that God is personal and nor do we all we God as some sort of supernatural extraterrestrial entity.

Then dont call it god.

Why not? Different religious traditions have different conceptions of God. I told you before that we do not all believe the same no matter how hard you try to lump us all together.

So, gawds are whatever you need them to be. You configure them to assuage your fears and superstitions because the comforting myths shield you from uncomfortable truths.

 

[Hollie]

sealy, I'm making a list of common atheist postulations. The first atheist postulation is this; 1. the universe is uncaused.

You said,

The honest answer is we dont know. You claim to know, which is why science is discovering the real answers not theists. Theists claim to already know.

I don't know anything for sure, just for the record, but forget about me. We're talking about atheism. Do you say you don't know because you are agnostic rather than atheist? If so, would you agree that an atheist would say we live in an accidental universe?

You're simply making a list of slogans and cliches' that are a staple at your fundamentalist ministries.

 

[sealybobo]

sealy, I'm making a list of common atheist postulations. The first atheist postulation is this; 1. the universe is uncaused.

You said,

The honest answer is we dont know. You claim to know, which is why science is discovering the real answers not theists. Theists claim to already know.

I don't know anything for sure, just for the record, but forget about me. We're talking about atheism. Do you say you don't know because you are agnostic rather than atheist? If so, would you agree that an atheist would say we live in an accidental universe?

The big bang is a cause no? What caused the big bang? I might guess a spark and you think its a bearded man in a robe. Whose postulating?

 

[sealybobo]

you say you believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists

I never said I believe in any of that. Not all theists believe that God is personal and nor do we all we God as some sort of supernatural extraterrestrial entity.

Then dont call it god.

Why not? Different religious traditions have different conceptions of God. I told you before that we do not all believe the same no matter how hard you try to lump us all together.

So, gawds are whatever you need them to be. You configure them to assuage your fears and superstitions because the comforting myths shield you from uncomfortable truths.

Or like my sweet innocent naive dad just can't imagine a clock could be made without a clock maker.

He doesnt worry about what happens when he dies and he doesnt fear hell. He just can't believe there is no creator.

 

[Hollie]

you say you believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists

I never said I believe in any of that. Not all theists believe that God is personal and nor do we all we God as some sort of supernatural extraterrestrial entity.

So, you have created your own fetching designer religion with your own Invention of designer gawds. Lovely. The problem is that you seem to have built your religion from a bunch of second hand parts of fundamentalist Christianity.

 

[Hollie]

And your god isnt even a basic theory let alone a scientific one. God is only a hypothesis.

No, God is not a scientific hypothesis. God is a metaphysical concept and as such discussion about God is a discussion of metaphysics and not the physical sciences.

I said a scientific theory not scientific hypothesis. God is simply a hypothesis unless you really believe he visited or talks to you then you believe its a fact. Do you?

How does a metaphysical concept such as God or even "Meaning" fall under the purview of the physical sciences? They don't.

Then it doesnt exist in any meaningful way. If you want to teach right and wrong do it without the lies. Then I'll get it.

I am beginning to think the concept of non-overlapping magesteria in beyond your ken.

I have delivered to you more than a couple of times the proof you asked for.

Then simply point out where you provided those proofs.

The gawds have guided you: seek'eth and the'ist shall find'ith. Unless'eth the'ist are helpless'eth.

 

[Hollie]

I'm afraid you're just a pointless spammer, not even one with a high EQ; Entertainment Quotient.

Just once, I would hope that you christian fundies would not attempt to spackle your gawds into every conceivable crack with the silly and tired "Argument of the uncaused cause". It long ago became tedious and it's no more valid, useful or interesting now than centuries ago. Even if we were to abandon every inquisitive brain cell and slouch into the stupor of religious fundamentalism, to mindlessly accept the intellectual dead end of your religious dogma that requires belief in polytheistic gawds who by magical means were responsible for the inception of the universe tells us nothing about the nature of that cause.

It doesn't tell us whether or not it is planned, intelligent, personal, conscious, arbitrary, loving, cruel, or even whether or not it has a "creator" of its own.

Bottom line is that your frail attempt, and that of the other self-hating, science-loathing fundie cranks who arbitrarily pick a point on some presumed chain of causality and call it "Gawds" is not an argument of any value to anybody. It helps no one's crank fundamentalist position, and in the armory of fundie christian apologetics, it doesn’t even qualify as a cap gun.

I'm one of the few persons here attempting to define the common postulations of atheists. That makes me one of the few non-spammers.

A fundamentalist tends to support socially conservative laws and a literal interpretation of the scripture. That isn't me. Your insistence on putting me in that box causes me to think you haven't much discernment. Maybe to you anyone who has metaphysical theories is a fundamentalist. That would be an awfully broad stereotype.

You call me a self-hating, and a crank. My response to that is that you don't exactly come across as the embodiment of mirth, Hollie. Anyway, you won't answer a simple question, so I'll move on to someone else.

Maybe sealybobo can help me.

The problem you're having is that your heavy-handed proselytizing is not winning converts. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you religious extremists are incensed that anyone dare challenge your dogma. This thread has become a vehicle for four primary zealots attempting to force their religion on others.

 

[Hollie]

Militant athiests in the future won't be so bad when religions stop saying non believers burn for eternity.

How optimistic of you. Very naive but we can't fault you for your optimism. I noticed something about some atheists. You have the tendency to ignore some basic facts about the nature of this world and in particular you ignore the basic facts about human nature. We are always going to have conflict. We will have conflict even if religion were to disappear tomorrow. It is in our nature to conflict with not only other human beings but with the natural world. To deny this very basic truth is to deny reality. We live in a hostile and violent world and we ourselves are hostile and violent by nature. Those are the facts of life.

I noticed something about religious zealots: they tend to be self-loathing and incapable of envisioning a world without trembling in fear before angry gawds. Your comments are, naturally, reflective of those basic tenets of christianity: mankind is elementally base and evil because of original sin.

It's truly a sickness to accept such a worldview.

I would never raise a child by Instilling in him or her the presumption that they are evil or base or inherently sinful. That's psychologically and emotionally abusive. To promote such abuse speaks volumes about the fear, self-hate and hostility of the abuser.

Such abuse is a prescription for a maladjusted personality.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

you say you believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists

I never said I believe in any of that. Not all theists believe that God is personal and nor do we all we God as some sort of supernatural extraterrestrial entity.

Then dont call it god.

Why not? Different religious traditions have different conceptions of God. I told you before that we do not all believe the same no matter how hard you try to lump us all together.

So, gawds are whatever you need them to be. You configure them to assuage your fears and superstitions because the comforting myths shield you from uncomfortable truths.

Exactly.

Religion and 'god' are creations of man, devoid of divinity and authority, reflecting man's ignorance and fear.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm afraid you're just a pointless spammer, not even one with a high EQ; Entertainment Quotient.

Just once, I would hope that you christian fundies would not attempt to spackle your gawds into every conceivable crack with the silly and tired "Argument of the uncaused cause". It long ago became tedious and it's no more valid, useful or interesting now than centuries ago. Even if we were to abandon every inquisitive brain cell and slouch into the stupor of religious fundamentalism, to mindlessly accept the intellectual dead end of your religious dogma that requires belief in polytheistic gawds who by magical means were responsible for the inception of the universe tells us nothing about the nature of that cause.

It doesn't tell us whether or not it is planned, intelligent, personal, conscious, arbitrary, loving, cruel, or even whether or not it has a "creator" of its own.

Bottom line is that your frail attempt, and that of the other self-hating, science-loathing fundie cranks who arbitrarily pick a point on some presumed chain of causality and call it "Gawds" is not an argument of any value to anybody. It helps no one's crank fundamentalist position, and in the armory of fundie christian apologetics, it doesn’t even qualify as a cap gun.

I'm one of the few persons here attempting to define the common postulations of atheists. That makes me one of the few non-spammers.

A fundamentalist tends to support socially conservative laws and a literal interpretation of the scripture. That isn't me. Your insistence on putting me in that box causes me to think you haven't much discernment. Maybe to you anyone who has metaphysical theories is a fundamentalist. That would be an awfully broad stereotype.

You call me a self-hating, and a crank. My response to that is that you don't exactly come across as the embodiment of mirth, Hollie. Anyway, you won't answer a simple question, so I'll move on to someone else.

Maybe sealybobo can help me.

The problem you're having is that your heavy-handed proselytizing is not winning converts. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you religious extremists are incensed that anyone dare challenge your dogma. This thread has become a vehicle for four primary zealots attempting to force their religion on others.

No good comes from telling someone believe or burn in hell or die.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

No good comes from telling someone believe or burn in hell or die.

White Christian America in Decline: Why Young People Are Sick of Conservative Religion
you can sense the way the country is lurching away from conservative Christian values and towards a more liberal, secular outlook. And conservative Christians aren’t taking these changes well at all.To look at the Christian right now is to see a people who know they are losing power and are desperately trying to reassert dominance before it’s lost altogether.

 

[Carla_Danger]

Omg I called her out for being the only one who's angry too.

I just find it mind blowing how their lives are consumed with attaching religion to a rational position that rejects religious doctrines.

If you believe that your position is rational why do you refuse to provide any proof that it is?

I have provided such proof.

Why don't you entertain us with something to rationally assess your gawds as true and extent to the exclusion of all the other true and extant gawds.

Do your gawds do tricks?

I have asked more than a couple of times to provide some proof that your position is rational and you have yet to deliver.

And no my God does not do tricks.

I have delivered to you more than a couple of times the proof you asked for.

So tell us about the rational basis you have for your gawds, spirit realms, supernaturalism. Does your vision of heaven include fat, naked babies playing harps?

If you believe that your position is rational why do you refuse to provide any proof that it is?

I have provided such proof.

Why don't you entertain us with something to rationally assess your gawds as true and extent to the exclusion of all the other true and extant gawds.

Do your gawds do tricks?

I have asked more than a couple of times to provide some proof that your position is rational and you have yet to deliver.

And no my God does not do tricks.

I have delivered to you more than a couple of times the proof you asked for.

So tell us about the rational basis you have for your gawds, spirit realms, supernaturalism. Does your vision of heaven include fat, naked babies playing harps?

If you did provide proof then surely you can reference where in this thread you provided them after I asked because I must have missed them or perhaps your proofs got lost in the mail.

You missed them. Try paying attention.

Now, let’s examine what religion proposes. When you say you believe in an entity that cannot be seen, cannot be felt, exists outside of the natural realm in an asserted supernatural realm, that has attributes we need to worship but cannot understand or even describe, who lives in eternity in both directions, who can create existence from nothing and is uncreated himself and uses methods and means we can never know or hope to understand, that stands outside proof which is exactly why it's for certain he exists-- I would say that qualifies as being under a delusion.

Once I was on a mission to learn how to play the harp, in order to get me more prepared for heaven. Let me tell you, the harp hurts your fingers! It's not an easy instrument to learn. It takes a while to toughen up your fingers!

 

[PostmodernProph]

We actually can say that conclusions regarding the non-existence of alleged supernatural entities is a rational and reasonable position. Your succumbing to fears and superstitions is your own waking nightmare to deal with. Spending your life in trembling fear of angry deities is a prescription for a maladjusted personality as evidenced by the hyper-religious and their inability to resolve a reality based worldview.

Please everyone watch the following:
Was Adolf Hitler a Christian - a report on How Hitler Viewed God - The 700 Club CBN.com

Citing the 700 Club in a discussion of religion...not exactly unbiased
Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Why is the 700 Club not the truest reflection of christianity?

Who decides?

why is Hollie not the truest reflection of the ignorance of atheists?........

Dont be mad cause she calls bullshit on your ridiculous religions.

/shrugs....don't be mad because you are left looking ignorant......do you agree with her that life originated from organic organisms?......

 

[PostmodernProph]

and you have no logical argument that concludes the non existence of supernatural entities.....if you had one you could diagram it....all you can do is shout "you are a fundamentalist"........

It's not up to me to disprove any of the gawds you offer no evidence for.

then you shouldn't pretend you can......

We actually can say that conclusions regarding the non-existence of alleged supernatural entities is a rational and reasonable position.

you can't actually say that, because you don't even know where to start....

You're typically befuddled. We start with you YEC'ists making claims to magical gawds ard the ones responsible for supporting your claims.

lol....you think that I am the one befuddled, yet you still think I'm a young earther.......anyone stupid enough to believe that is the one befuddled.......

Your attempts at argument are identical to the YEC'ist cranks.

my arguments that the earth is not 6000 years old are identical to young earthers?.......on the other hand, Boss argued that life comes from life and you said no, it comes from organic organisms.......that's what I would call an identical argument......

 

[PostmodernProph]

We actually can say that conclusions regarding the non-existence of alleged supernatural entities is a rational and reasonable position. Your succumbing to fears and superstitions is your own waking nightmare to deal with. Spending your life in trembling fear of angry deities is a prescription for a maladjusted personality as evidenced by the hyper-religious and their inability to resolve a reality based worldview.

Please everyone watch the following:
Was Adolf Hitler a Christian - a report on How Hitler Viewed God - The 700 Club CBN.com

Citing the 700 Club in a discussion of religion...not exactly unbiased
Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote

Why is the 700 Club not the truest reflection of christianity?

Who decides?

why is Hollie not the truest reflection of the ignorance of atheists?........

You're so befuddled you're left to your usual attempts at juvenile name-calling.

wait....do you mean that since m arguments are identical to another's it make me just like them?....I must be a Hollieander.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

If you believe that your position is rational why do you refuse to provide any proof that it is?

I have provided such proof.

Why don't you entertain us with something to rationally assess your gawds as true and extent to the exclusion of all the other true and extant gawds.

Do your gawds do tricks?

I have asked more than a couple of times to provide some proof that your position is rational and you have yet to deliver.

And no my God does not do tricks.

I have delivered to you more than a couple of times the proof you asked for.

So tell us about the rational basis you have for your gawds, spirit realms, supernaturalism. Does your vision of heaven include fat, naked babies playing harps?

If you did provide proof then surely you can reference where in this thread you provided them after I asked because I must have missed them or perhaps your proofs got lost in the mail.

"What?"

let me translate for you....why do you keep pretending you have some proof when everyone knows you don't.......

 

[PostmodernProph]

sealy, I'm making a list of common atheist postulations. The first atheist postulation is this; 1. the universe is uncaused.

You said,

The honest answer is we dont know. You claim to know, which is why science is discovering the real answers not theists. Theists claim to already know.

I don't know anything for sure, just for the record, but forget about me. We're talking about atheism. Do you say you don't know because you are agnostic rather than atheist? If so, would you agree that an atheist would say we live in an accidental universe?

Why does it have to be accidental?

because caused and accidental are the only two options and you deny caused.......

What caused the big bang? I might guess a spark and you think its a bearded man in a robe.

see?....an accident or a cause.....

 

[Hollie]

It's not up to me to disprove any of the gawds you offer no evidence for.

then you shouldn't pretend you can......

We actually can say that conclusions regarding the non-existence of alleged supernatural entities is a rational and reasonable position.

you can't actually say that, because you don't even know where to start....

You're typically befuddled. We start with you YEC'ists making claims to magical gawds ard the ones responsible for supporting your claims.

lol....you think that I am the one befuddled, yet you still think I'm a young earther.......anyone stupid enough to believe that is the one befuddled.......

Your attempts at argument are identical to the YEC'ist cranks.

my arguments that the earth is not 6000 years old are identical to young earthers?.......on the other hand, Boss argued that life comes from life and you said no, it comes from organic organisms.......that's what I would call an identical argument......

"The gawds did it" answers all questions.

 

[sealybobo]

sealy, I'm making a list of common atheist postulations. The first atheist postulation is this; 1. the universe is uncaused.

You said,

The honest answer is we dont know. You claim to know, which is why science is discovering the real answers not theists. Theists claim to already know.

I don't know anything for sure, just for the record, but forget about me. We're talking about atheism. Do you say you don't know because you are agnostic rather than atheist? If so, would you agree that an atheist would say we live in an accidental universe?

Why does it have to be accidental?

because caused and accidental are the only two options and you deny caused.......

What caused the big bang? I might guess a spark and you think its a bearded man in a robe.

see?....an accident or a cause.....

What caused god? Same thing caused the big bang.

 

[Treeshepherd]

sealy, I'm making a list of common atheist postulations. The first atheist postulation is this; 1. the universe is uncaused.

You said,

The honest answer is we dont know. You claim to know, which is why science is discovering the real answers not theists. Theists claim to already know.

I don't know anything for sure, just for the record, but forget about me. We're talking about atheism. Do you say you don't know because you are agnostic rather than atheist? If so, would you agree that an atheist would say we live in an accidental universe?

The big bang is a cause no? What caused the big bang? I might guess a spark and you think its a bearded man in a robe. Whose postulating?

No good comes from telling someone believe or burn in hell or die.

I don't even believe in Hell, and I've never mentioned the subject on USMB, and now suddenly I'm accused of being a guy who tells people that they're going to burn in a lake of fire upon the judgement of a bearded man. You're replacing everything I've ever said with a template of a fictional character that you've created in your minds.

You obviously can't be reasoned with. You bring too much baggage to the thread. At the same time, you haven't really objected to my list of atheist tenets in any logical way, like A is not true because I rather believe in B. I'll continue to work on my own.