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We do not argue with you - we respond to your attacks. A world of difference.And he should keep in mind what I want has nothing to do with what I believe. I would love to believe there’s a heaven but as much as I want it to be true I can’t believe. Just can’t fake it.The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".Who do you think dictates what is moral or immoral?
Pope Francis explains 'who am I to judge' in his new book
This Vatican adviser is moving Catholics toward LGBT inclusion
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But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.
Why would someone who truly believes they’re going to heaven do anything but pitty us? Instead they argue. But who are they trying to convince? Me or themselves.
You can rationalize your sins however you wish ..... that makes them no less sinful.I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.
The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.
I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs.
Clearly this list was invented by ancient uneducated and uncivilized men who invented a religion. This is how you get blind obedience.
Ten Commandments List
The first 4 are bullshit. 5, what if your parents sucked? Clearly a lesson in respecting authority even if it molests you. 6 is a no brainer. 7. These men worried about other men banging their wives. 8 and 9 make sense.
- You shall have no other gods before Me.
- You shall make no idols.
- You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
- Keep the Sabbath day holy.
- Honor your father and your mother.
- You shall not murder.
- You shall not commit adultery.
- You shall not steal.
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
- You shall not covet.
10 is bs too. This is bad?
desire, yearn for, crave, have one's heart set on, want, wish for, long for, hanker after/for, hunger after/for, thirst for
By your answer I can tell you have never heard of Pacal's wager.Yes - the question is who loses the most of they are wrong.Ever hear of Pascal's wager?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".Who do you think dictates what is moral or immoral?
Pope Francis explains 'who am I to judge' in his new book
This Vatican adviser is moving Catholics toward LGBT inclusion
More Catholics support gay ‘marriage’ than ever before. Here’s why
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
Yes without explanation or reason.Please explain in detail why the list is BS. Would you rather leave the world worse off than you found it?More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
i have posted several times the sheer stupidity of the overall approach
Stating reasons why you disagree with them would.- attacking each one of those serves no practical purpose.
How so? The world contains less than 5% of atheists and in places where atheists are at the highest there are many beneficial qualities.As for your second question (Would you rather leave the world worse off than you found it?), we have seen over the past 75 years the impact of moving away from God.
Who's moral and ethical code. As far as I can see even Christians can't agree to them.Surely, you can't believe we are better off for forsaking our moral and ethical code.
I'll take a bite at this. Beliefs about anything. I will give you just one example. When I was in my teens I was convinced Bigfoot was real. The footprints, the testimonies and sightings, the Patterson film. Then I looked at the evidence with an open mind. We are living in a world that has the capability to identify things with DNA. All these hairs and droppings that were supposed to be from Sasquatch turned out to be false or faked. Many that had given testimony before admitted to lying. My beliefs about Bigfoot have been altered and if somebody ever actually found a Sasquatch living or dead my beliefs would again change. This is what #1 is about.I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.
The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.
I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs. beliefs about what, and who gets to decide what open minded really is. Evidence yes as long as its not altered evidence.
Nonsense.I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.
The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.
I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.
The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs. beliefs about what, and who gets to decide what open minded really is. Evidence yes as long as its not altered evidence.
You believe you are this gods chosen species in the universe. That’s arrogantAren't you just the sweetest thing?The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".Who do you think dictates what is moral or immoral?
Pope Francis explains 'who am I to judge' in his new book
This Vatican adviser is moving Catholics toward LGBT inclusion
More Catholics support gay ‘marriage’ than ever before. Here’s why
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.
Your failure to recognize that there is a God is steeped in arrogance. You have continually stated that since there is no God, Man is the "supreme authority" [my phrase], and, as such, is the ultimate authority.
Then, you posit that we, in fact, don't need an ultimate arbiter, that as thinking, rational human beings, we are able to determine the validity, or fallacy, of our own actions.
And, then, you acknowledge Man's relativism, that man will make decisions based on his own best interests.
And, then, you have the temerity to ask me what is there were no God? Stop and think, man.
Man's penchant for self-forgiveness, coupled with his relativist mindset, ensures that there are no rules, no laws, no covenants, no commandments. All things will be relative - relative to the personal well-being of the man making the judgement. Murder will be disallowed - unless, of course, you murder somebody who has upset the judge of those actions. What you find reprehensible, I find justified - what you believe is appropriate, I find morally repugnant. Consistency is impossible, and justice is simply a dream.
You create a moral code that is dependent on who perceives its pertinence. I note that your "suggestions" (never, ever call them a code!!) offers absolutely nothing in structure nor consequences. There is no penalty for ignoring your "suggestions" - there is no definition of propriety in your actions with others. That which I can justify in my mind is permissible, under your approach. If I kill your mother for walking on my grass, I feel justified (if I hadn't felt justified, I wouldn't have done it) - you feel anger
To suggest that society can survive without rules, without laws, without punishment, without compensation is nonsensical. It defies logic, and it defies the evolution of thought and social interaction.
THAT is your discussion ... it is just plain stupid.
Is that your reason for believing the unbelievable? Fear?Yes - the question is who loses the most of they are wrong.Ever hear of Pascal's wager?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".Who do you think dictates what is moral or immoral?
Pope Francis explains 'who am I to judge' in his new book
This Vatican adviser is moving Catholics toward LGBT inclusion
More Catholics support gay ‘marriage’ than ever before. Here’s why
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
It’s not morality ruining the world it’s global warming.Please explain in detail why the list is BS. Would you rather leave the world worse off than you found it?More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
i have posted several times the sheer stupidity of the overall approach - attacking each one of those serves no practical purpose.
As for your second question (Would you rather leave the world worse off than you found it?), we have seen over the past 75 years the impact of moving away from God. Surely, you can't believe we are better off for forsaking our moral and ethical code.
I’m not worried. I know you are wrongWe do not argue with you - we respond to your attacks. A world of difference.And he should keep in mind what I want has nothing to do with what I believe. I would love to believe there’s a heaven but as much as I want it to be true I can’t believe. Just can’t fake it.The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.
Why would someone who truly believes they’re going to heaven do anything but pitty us? Instead they argue. But who are they trying to convince? Me or themselves.
Feel free to pick your path to eternity - and allow me to pick mine. (Oh, and pray like crazy that you're right and I'm not - cuz, if you're wrong and I'm right, you're royally fucked!)
If my friend Mohammad is right spare_change is royally fucked. How much sleep do you think he will lose tonight?By your answer I can tell you have never heard of Pacal's wager.Yes - the question is who loses the most of they are wrong.Ever hear of Pascal's wager?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
Perhaps my dear fellow, you would care to share YOUR formula, or principles, or whatever for leading a good and just life as a human being and member of society.More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
Perhaps my dear fellow, you would care to share YOUR formula, or principles, or whatever for leading a good and just life as a human being and member of society.More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
Does not computePerhaps my dear fellow, you would care to share YOUR formula, or principles, or whatever for leading a good and just life as a human being and member of society.More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
Profess Jesus as your savior. Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Say, "Father in Heaven, I believe that Jesusdied for my sins." And God will impart eternal life to your spirit.
Does not computePerhaps my dear fellow, you would care to share YOUR formula, or principles, or whatever for leading a good and just life as a human being and member of society.More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
Profess Jesus as your savior. Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Say, "Father in Heaven, I believe that Jesusdied for my sins." And God will impart eternal life to your spirit.
You do not have to be religous to see that the ten commandments are likely a good set of rules to live by. If you look through out our codified law most(of the commandments) are covered as a basis of rules for society.According to Spare Change it's "sanctimonious BS". Of course, Spare change thinks that the 10 commandments are the perfectly rational rules for living handed down directly from God to Man, so his opinion is clearly contributive.Sounds like a good purposeful person-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
- Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
- The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
- Every person has the right to control their own body.
- God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
- Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
- Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
- We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
- There is no right way to live.
- Leave the world a better place than you found it.
These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.
No, my failure to "recognise there is a God" is not due to arrogance, but to reason, and lack of objective, verifiable evidence. It is this same "arrogance" (your word, not mine) that leads me to not recognise there are fairies, or goblins,. or unicorns, or dragons. I cannot prove with absolute certainty that none of these things exist, however the evidence - or lack thereof, as it were - leads to the rational position that non-existence is the most likely to be true (refer to rational position #2).Aren't you just the sweetest thing?The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".Who do you think dictates what is moral or immoral?
Pope Francis explains 'who am I to judge' in his new book
This Vatican adviser is moving Catholics toward LGBT inclusion
More Catholics support gay ‘marriage’ than ever before. Here’s why
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.
Your failure to recognize that there is a God is steeped in arrogance. You have continually stated that since there is no God, Man is the "supreme authority" [my phrase], and, as such, is the ultimate authority.
Reasonable positions right down the line.Then, you posit that we, in fact, don't need an ultimate arbiter, that as thinking, rational human beings, we are able to determine the validity, or fallacy, of our own actions.
And, then, you acknowledge Man's relativism, that man will make decisions based on his own best interests.
And, then, you have the temerity to ask me what is there were no God? Stop and think, man.
The problem is that you are, again, conflating a personal moral code with a societal set of laws. They are two different things. Moral codes are individual, and can, and often will, vary from one individual to another. Legal statutes, on the other hand, because they are agreed upon universal rules for a society are not subject to variation from one individual to another.Man's penchant for self-forgiveness, coupled with his relativist mindset, ensures that there are no rules, no laws, no covenants, no commandments. All things will be relative - relative to the personal well-being of the man making the judgement. Murder will be disallowed - unless, of course, you murder somebody who has upset the judge of those actions. What you find reprehensible, I find justified - what you believe is appropriate, I find morally repugnant. Consistency is impossible, and justice is simply a dream.
You create a moral code that is dependent on who perceives its pertinence. I note that your "suggestions" (never, ever call them a code!!) offers absolutely nothing in structure nor consequences. There is no penalty for ignoring your "suggestions" - there is no definition of propriety in your actions with others. That which I can justify in my mind is permissible, under your approach. If I kill your mother for walking on my grass, I feel justified (if I hadn't felt justified, I wouldn't have done it) - you feel anger
To suggest that society can survive without rules, without laws, without punishment, without compensation is nonsensical. It defies logic, and it defies the evolution of thought and social interaction.
THAT is your discussion ... it is just plain stupid.
No, my failure to "recognise there is a God" is not due to arrogance, but to reason, and lack of objective, verifiable evidence. It is this same "arrogance" (your word, not mine) that leads me to not recognise there are fairies, or goblins,. or unicorns, or dragons. I cannot prove with absolute certainty that none of these things exist, however the evidence - or lack thereof, as it were - leads to the rational position that non-existence is the most likely to be true (refer to rational position #2).Aren't you just the sweetest thing?The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?Why is it so important to you that there be no God?Well, that's easy. They would say "God".
But that's just silly. It was artificially constructed by a group of men in antiquity and is poorly translated, heavily altered and selectively interpreted. Entire sections of the text have been redacted over time.
Why there is no god
Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?
You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!
See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.
Your failure to recognize that there is a God is steeped in arrogance. You have continually stated that since there is no God, Man is the "supreme authority" [my phrase], and, as such, is the ultimate authority.
Reasonable positions right down the line.Then, you posit that we, in fact, don't need an ultimate arbiter, that as thinking, rational human beings, we are able to determine the validity, or fallacy, of our own actions.
And, then, you acknowledge Man's relativism, that man will make decisions based on his own best interests.
And, then, you have the temerity to ask me what is there were no God? Stop and think, man.
The problem is that you are, again, conflating a personal moral code with a societal set of laws. They are two different things. Moral codes are individual, and can, and often will, vary from one individual to another. Legal statutes, on the other hand, because they are agreed upon universal rules for a society are not subject to variation from one individual to another.Man's penchant for self-forgiveness, coupled with his relativist mindset, ensures that there are no rules, no laws, no covenants, no commandments. All things will be relative - relative to the personal well-being of the man making the judgement. Murder will be disallowed - unless, of course, you murder somebody who has upset the judge of those actions. What you find reprehensible, I find justified - what you believe is appropriate, I find morally repugnant. Consistency is impossible, and justice is simply a dream.
You create a moral code that is dependent on who perceives its pertinence. I note that your "suggestions" (never, ever call them a code!!) offers absolutely nothing in structure nor consequences. There is no penalty for ignoring your "suggestions" - there is no definition of propriety in your actions with others. That which I can justify in my mind is permissible, under your approach. If I kill your mother for walking on my grass, I feel justified (if I hadn't felt justified, I wouldn't have done it) - you feel anger
To suggest that society can survive without rules, without laws, without punishment, without compensation is nonsensical. It defies logic, and it defies the evolution of thought and social interaction.
THAT is your discussion ... it is just plain stupid.
- Law: Do not murder. This is universal throughout a society. Murder is a crime for me, you, and everyone.
- Morality: Never kill. This is a personal position. For some it may even lead to veganism, as their desire not to kill extends to lesser animals. For some killing is synonymous with murder. For some this is a flexible moral standard that changes with circumstance.
Now, clearly, the difficulty comes in when one's personal moral code conflicts with social laws. At that point it becomes a calculation of desire vs consequence. For example, I do not believe it necessary to wear a seat belt when driving. That is my personal position. The law states that seat belts are required. If I get caught not wearing a seat belt, I have to pay an annoying fine. I have determined for myself that this consequence is worth following my personal position in defiance of the law. On the other hand. You stole something of great personal value to me - say, for the sake of argument, my wife. I believe I would be perfectly justified, according to my own personal moral positions to strangle the life out of you. However, according to the law, I would spend a great many years in prison, and would most certainly not return my wife to me. It is not, therefore, worth the consequences for me to defy the law.
Now, is this a perfect system? No. Guess what? No system is. You kn ow how we know this? Because Christians break laws, too. They steal, they lie, they kill. Sometimes, the Law, whether it is secular, or religious, is simply not enough to prevent a person from doing what they want. Neither is any moral code.
I don't propose that my 10 reasonable positions is preferable to the 10 Commandments because the positions, themselves, are "more moral". Rather, I say that they are preferable, because rather than relying on someone else to dictate what is, and is not moral, the 10 reasonable positions allow you the tools to find your own way to your own moral position. And independent reason is always preferable to blind obedience.
Wow! What a rant. You had me going there for a minute . I thought that you were serious until you got to the part about "your cult leader"Does not computePerhaps my dear fellow, you would care to share YOUR formula, or principles, or whatever for leading a good and just life as a human being and member of society.More sanctimonious BS from our resident egotist.
Profess Jesus as your savior. Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Say, "Father in Heaven, I believe that Jesusdied for my sins." And God will impart eternal life to your spirit.
You mean you don't believe the stories or you don't know them yet? Because after I tell you all about Jesus you will believe. Or maybe I'm not telling it right. Maybe you need to go to my church and hear my preacher tell it. And if you don't believe him maybe there's something wrong with you. How can everyone in my congregation be wrong? How can so many millions of people be wrong? And who are you to question it? You must be evil. And what if you are wrong? If I'm wrong no biggy but if you're wrong you will burn in hell so just to be safe you should either fake it or shut up about your disbelief.
Also, how can you believe in evolution? The idea that humans came from creatures that once crawled out of the water. How preposterous. Instead you should believe that God poofed fully grown humans and tigers and dogs and birds and toads and snakes into existence. That's where the first land animals all came from stupid. They were POOFED into existence with the wave of God's hand. They didn't evolve into what they are now. Chicken or egg you ask? The fucking CHICKEN. God poofed chickens into existence and they laid the first eggs.
Also. You should treat us Christians with more respect. We are gods. Or we will be when we die. Yes we are going off to live in paradise forever. At least that's what my cult leader told me. Aren't you jealous?
