Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 rational positions

[sealybobo]

Profess Jesus as your savior. Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Say, "Father in Heaven, I believe that Jesusdied for my sins." And God will impart eternal life to your spirit.

Does not compute

You mean you don't believe the stories or you don't know them yet? Because after I tell you all about Jesus you will believe. Or maybe I'm not telling it right. Maybe you need to go to my church and hear my preacher tell it. And if you don't believe him maybe there's something wrong with you. How can everyone in my congregation be wrong? How can so many millions of people be wrong? And who are you to question it? You must be evil. And what if you are wrong? If I'm wrong no biggy but if you're wrong you will burn in hell so just to be safe you should either fake it or shut up about your disbelief.

Also, how can you believe in evolution? The idea that humans came from creatures that once crawled out of the water. How preposterous. Instead you should believe that God poofed fully grown humans and tigers and dogs and birds and toads and snakes into existence. That's where the first land animals all came from stupid. They were POOFED into existence with the wave of God's hand. They didn't evolve into what they are now. Chicken or egg you ask? The fucking CHICKEN. God poofed chickens into existence and they laid the first eggs.

Also. You should treat us Christians with more respect. We are gods. Or we will be when we die. Yes we are going off to live in paradise forever. At least that's what my cult leader told me. Aren't you jealous?

Wow! What a rant. You had me going there for a minute . I thought that you were serious until you got to the part about "your cult leader"

But just in case you are serious, there are also millions of people who believe as I do.They can't all be wrong.

As a matter of fact, they can ....

Well...by that logic, then so can the millions of theists. In fact, since the one true commonly held belief of atheists is, "There is no God", while theists cannot not agree on a single thing about the nature of God, it is much more likely that, if the atheists are all wrong, so are a vast majority of theists. How do any of you know, with absolute certainty, that your flavour of theism is the correct one?

Because the original authors of the Bible were there to see Jesus walk on water. And feed 5000 with 5 fish and three loaves of bread. In fact the 11 guys who saw and wrote about Jesus started churches to serve the 5000 followers. You can even go see their graves. We know exactly where it happened.

And besides all that it makes perfect sense. This god knocked up Mary and Joseph was totally cool about it. Remember these were different times

 

[sealybobo]

Paul was the first pope. He passed the batton down from pope to pope to the current pope swear to god.

And I Love American churches. Ones that were invented here. They believe their version of the Bible’s. It’s insane in the membrane. A church that didn’t exist pre America can’t claim to be the authority only a spinoff

 

[sealybobo]

1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
9. There is no right way to live.
10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

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These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.

Better than the ones provided by God where the first four say........You better worship me!

There are so many things like this I call them clues that tell you Christianity was so obviously man made up.

 

[rightwinger]

10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.


Why didn't God think of that one?

 

[sealybobo]

Rule number one don’t believe anyone who says I’m wrong

Rest on Sunday.

Don’t murder cheat steal

Respect your elders

Not even the courtesy of slipping in the golden rule. It covers a lot

 

[rightwinger]

What I would include in my Ten Commandments

1. Thou shall not allow slavery. Moses led the Hebrews out of slavery and struggled to free them. Yet God does not even prohibit slavery in his ten commandments. I would prohibit slavery and order employers to pay an honest wage and order workers to give an honest days work

2. Thou shall be clean in thy person and thy environment. God could have saved hundreds of millions of lives with this one. Sanitation was a major killer of mankind. Keep yourself clean to avoid germs. Do not pollute your drinking water or your environment. Could have prevented the plague and other killer diseases

3. Thou shall not engage in War. War is a practice of man and not God. God should encourage peaceful resolution of conflicts and consider war an act against God

4. Thou shall educate yourself and others. A critical trait of man. Learning and the spread of knowledge. You should strive to learn your whole life and spread knowledge to others

5. I would expand the honor your father and mother to honor your family. Parents should honor their kids, make sure they are fed and clothed and protected. You should work hard to take care of your family

 

[sealybobo]

What I would include in my Ten Commandments

1. Thou shall not allow slavery. Moses led the Hebrews out of slavery and struggled to free them. Yet God does not even prohibit slavery in his ten commandments. I would prohibit slavery and order employers to pay an honest wage and order workers to give an honest days work

2. Thou shall be clean in thy person and thy environment. God could have saved hundreds of millions of lives with this one. Sanitation was a major killer of mankind. Keep yourself clean to avoid germs. Do not pollute your drinking water or your environment. Could have prevented the plague and other killer diseases

3. Thou shall not engage in War. War is a practice of man and not God. God should encourage peaceful resolution of conflicts and consider war an act against God

4. Thou shall educate yourself and others. A critical trait of man. Learning and the spread of knowledge. You should strive to learn your whole life and spread knowledge to others

5. I would expand the honor your father and mother to honor your family. Parents should honor their kids, make sure they are fed and clothed and protected. You should work hard to take care of your family

Honor your family? Even better would be to honor strangers as if they were your family. I see people leave church then curse the woman at the restaurant. Going to church isn’t working

 

[Czernobog]

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

You, like all theists, seem to be confusing social legal contracts with personal moral codes. Government has nothing to do with individuals following their personal moral codes; rather they are institutions created to enforce, and administrate the social legal construct. I'm curious what your "historical evidence" is that Man is incapable of "policing himself".

 

[Czernobog]

Rule number one don’t believe anyone who says I’m wrong

Rest on Sunday.

Don’t murder cheat steal

Respect your elders

Not even the courtesy of slipping in the golden rule. It covers a lot

You got number three wrong. The "respect your elders" bit was designed to have a more expansive purpose: Obey authority without question. By teaching children to obey their parents in all things, without question, as they grew up those children were learning to obey authority.

 

[Spare_change]

Why is it so important to you that there be no God?

Scares the hell out of you, doesn't it?

You just might be wrong .... in which case, you are .... as we say ... royally fucked!

The real question is, why is it so important to you that there is a God? If you woke up tomorrow, and discovered, with absolute certainty, that God does not exist, would anything really have changed? Would the earth spin any differently? Would the sun shine any less brightly? Would anything in the natural universe really stop running as it always has?

See, the only people who fear that they are wrong, are the theists. Because, if they have to admit that they are wrong, then they have to admit that they have denied themselves countless opportunities at pleasure, and personal experiences all in the name of living up to the standards of a God that never existed.

Aren't you just the sweetest thing?

Your failure to recognize that there is a God is steeped in arrogance. You have continually stated that since there is no God, Man is the "supreme authority" [my phrase], and, as such, is the ultimate authority.

Then, you posit that we, in fact, don't need an ultimate arbiter, that as thinking, rational human beings, we are able to determine the validity, or fallacy, of our own actions.

And, then, you acknowledge Man's relativism, that man will make decisions based on his own best interests.

And, then, you have the temerity to ask me what is there were no God? Stop and think, man.

Man's penchant for self-forgiveness, coupled with his relativist mindset, ensures that there are no rules, no laws, no covenants, no commandments. All things will be relative - relative to the personal well-being of the man making the judgement. Murder will be disallowed - unless, of course, you murder somebody who has upset the judge of those actions. What you find reprehensible, I find justified - what you believe is appropriate, I find morally repugnant. Consistency is impossible, and justice is simply a dream.

You create a moral code that is dependent on who perceives its pertinence. I note that your "suggestions" (never, ever call them a code!!) offers absolutely nothing in structure nor consequences. There is no penalty for ignoring your "suggestions" - there is no definition of propriety in your actions with others. That which I can justify in my mind is permissible, under your approach. If I kill your mother for walking on my grass, I feel justified (if I hadn't felt justified, I wouldn't have done it) - you feel anger

To suggest that society can survive without rules, without laws, without punishment, without compensation is nonsensical. It defies logic, and it defies the evolution of thought and social interaction.

THAT is your discussion ... it is just plain stupid.

You believe you are this gods chosen species in the universe. That’s arrogant

And you think you are a god who will live forever after you die. That’s arrogant ignorant and wishful thinking

I claimed to be a god who will live forever??? Are you that seriously deluded?

What happens to you after you die? Do you go to a place called heaven where you live in paradise forever? Sounds like a god to me

See? Told you that you were uneducated.

 

[Spare_change]

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

We just need to take the money out of politics. Then companies can afford to pay taxes and good wages

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

We just need to take the money out of politics. Then companies can afford to pay taxes and good wages

I have no idea why you would think that good wages will ensure moral and ethical propriety. in fact, it would seem to be exactly the inverse.

 

[Spare_change]

We d

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

But we do police ourselves. That means what you said is moronic

That's exactly my point .... the transience of man's judgement ensures that we police ourselves only when it is convenient to our goals.

Clearly, man does not police his own behavior ... unless, of course, it fits his overall plan. Ask Hillary Clinton ....

 

[Spare_change]

Paul was the first pope. He passed the batton down from pope to pope to the current pope swear to god.

And I Love American churches. Ones that were invented here. They believe their version of the Bible’s. It’s insane in the membrane. A church that didn’t exist pre America can’t claim to be the authority only a spinoff

Actually, it was Peter ....

 

[Spare_change]

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

You, like all theists, seem to be confusing social legal contracts with personal moral codes. Government has nothing to do with individuals following their personal moral codes; rather they are institutions created to enforce, and administrate the social legal construct. I'm curious what your "historical evidence" is that Man is incapable of "policing himself".

Yeah, right ... you conveniently parse the onion so that you don't have to deal with the center.

Where do you suppose the "personal moral code" comes from? What do you suppose was the basis of the Declaration of Independence? What is the correlation between the Constitution and the Bible?

Evidence? Let me see ....

Attilla the Hun defied all moral constructs ... Stalin did, too. Hitler violated a moral code ... Pot Pol did, too. The list is endless.

As a matter of fact, this morning on the way to work, YOU violated your supposed "personal moral code". You exceeded the speed limit, or failed to come to a complete stop ... near as I can calculate, you violated your own "suggestions" 7 & 8. The list is endless .... you took a pen home provided by your company ... stole it. Is that your personal moral code? It's okay to steal as long as it doesn't exceed $1.59????

You apply your "personal moral code" when it's convenient ... kinda makes you sound like a sinner, huh?

 

[Spare_change]

Rule number one don’t believe anyone who says I’m wrong

Rest on Sunday.

Don’t murder cheat steal

Respect your elders

Not even the courtesy of slipping in the golden rule. It covers a lot

You got number three wrong. The "respect your elders" bit was designed to have a more expansive purpose: Obey authority without question. By teaching children to obey their parents in all things, without question, as they grew up those children were learning to obey authority.

Now, you're making shit up .... but it's fun to watch you wiggle.

 

[featherlite]

If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.

I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,

The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.

I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs. beliefs about what, and who gets to decide what open minded really is. Evidence yes as long as its not altered evidence.

I'll take a bite at this. Beliefs about anything. I will give you just one example. When I was in my teens I was convinced Bigfoot was real. The footprints, the testimonies and sightings, the Patterson film. Then I looked at the evidence with an open mind. We are living in a world that has the capability to identify things with DNA. All these hairs and droppings that were supposed to be from Sasquatch turned out to be false or faked. Many that had given testimony before admitted to lying. My beliefs about Bigfoot have been altered and if somebody ever actually found a Sasquatch living or dead my beliefs would again change. This is what #1 is about.

Remember the famous debate between ken Hamm and Bill Nye? They were both asked what would change their mind about their position. Ham said "nothing". Bill Nye said "evidence". Who has the open mind?

Bigfoot? that legend has always seemed pretty funny to me.
I know what #1 is about. You got to wonder when someone brings up the same type of topic over and over if there isn't more to it.

There actually is a lot of doubt, non belief, researching, personal experiences that lead up to a position of faith. Most people dont go through life with blinders on thinking only one way.

 

[featherlite]

If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.

I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,

The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.

I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs. beliefs about what, and who gets to decide what open minded really is. Evidence yes as long as its not altered evidence.

Nonsense.

The 10 commandments, the bible, and all other religious doctrine and dogma are the creation of man, not a deity – man is the source of all manifestations of morality.

There is no ‘bigger picture.’

I don't think man is the source of morality I believe its perfectly designed. Man shapes morality sometimes for the good sometimes bad and people learn from that.
You don't know if there is a bigger picture or a God because man hasn't figured everything out and doesn't have all the factual answers.

 

[Tuatara]

If you need to live by your own moral code, go on wit' yer bad self. Why even compare & compete with the 10 commandments at all. Do "rational positions" sound more self actualized?
...and how many atheists actually would live that list? Not many or theyed live a few but ignore the rest.

I would think the reason would be self explanatory. In spite of the fact that many of the "commandments" are pedantic, vague (Do not murder.kill), rigid, and gratuitous (Sabbath), Christians continue to hold up the 10 commandments as a valuable, universal code of morality that should be absolute.,

The 10 reasonable positions, are a rational alternative. None of them speak to specific behaviour, and all of them suggest a rational, reasonable way to act in one's own life, and how to behave towards others.

I notice that no one has tried to deconstruct any of the actual positions, but have instead expressed indignation that someone would dare suggest that there might be a better set of behavioural suggestions than the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are part of the bigger picture, one that you dont want to understand.
No one has tried to deconstruct any of your suggestions? ok, lets start with #1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs. beliefs about what, and who gets to decide what open minded really is. Evidence yes as long as its not altered evidence.

I'll take a bite at this. Beliefs about anything. I will give you just one example. When I was in my teens I was convinced Bigfoot was real. The footprints, the testimonies and sightings, the Patterson film. Then I looked at the evidence with an open mind. We are living in a world that has the capability to identify things with DNA. All these hairs and droppings that were supposed to be from Sasquatch turned out to be false or faked. Many that had given testimony before admitted to lying. My beliefs about Bigfoot have been altered and if somebody ever actually found a Sasquatch living or dead my beliefs would again change. This is what #1 is about.

Remember the famous debate between ken Hamm and Bill Nye? They were both asked what would change their mind about their position. Ham said "nothing". Bill Nye said "evidence". Who has the open mind?

Bigfoot? that legend has always seemed pretty funny to me.
I know what #1 is about. You got to wonder when someone brings up the same type of topic over and over if there isn't more to it.

There actually is a lot of doubt, non belief, researching, personal experiences that lead up to a position of faith. Most people dont go through life with blinders on thinking only one way.

Actually they do . Most people assimilate their parents religion through child indoctrination. A very minute amount will change faiths usually within the same body but to a different denomination. Some will change to a different religion but this number is very small. More become atheist or agnostic but these numbers which are constantly rising are a small percentage compared to those who stay within their religion.

 

[sealybobo]

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

We just need to take the money out of politics. Then companies can afford to pay taxes and good wages

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

We just need to take the money out of politics. Then companies can afford to pay taxes and good wages

I have no idea why you would think that good wages will ensure moral and ethical propriety. in fact, it would seem to be exactly the inverse.

How is that? Kids who grow up in safe neighborhoods tend to do better than kids in high poverty and crime areas. So how so?

 

[Czernobog]

"God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life."

Very true.

Theists have no ‘monopoly’ on morality, virtue, or values.

Indeed, those free from faith often live a more moral, values-filled life than most theists.

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

You, like all theists, seem to be confusing social legal contracts with personal moral codes. Government has nothing to do with individuals following their personal moral codes; rather they are institutions created to enforce, and administrate the social legal construct. I'm curious what your "historical evidence" is that Man is incapable of "policing himself".

Yeah, right ... you conveniently parse the onion so that you don't have to deal with the center.

Where do you suppose the "personal moral code" comes from? What do you suppose was the basis of the Declaration of Independence? What is the correlation between the Constitution and the Bible?

Yeah, you dominionists are always trying to tie the Constitution to the Bible. Actually the Constitution has more in common with the Iroquois, than it does the bible. In fact, in 1988 Congress officially recognised the Iroquois Conference contribution to the framing of the Constitution, When, exactly did Congress officially recognise the Biblical contribution to the framing of the Constitution? Oh. That's right. Never. Because it never happened, except in the fevered imagination of the dominionists.

Evidence? Let me see ....

Attilla the Hun defied all moral constructs ... Stalin did, too. Hitler violated a moral code ... Pot Pol did, too. The list is endless.

Actually the list isn't endless. And following God caused men to behave so much better: Torquemada, Charlemagne, pope Pius V and the slaughter of 20,000 hugonauts. The list is endless. Looks like devoting one's self to go is not more guaranteed to make a man moral, and ethical than not.

As a matter of fact, this morning on the way to work, YOU violated your supposed "personal moral code". You exceeded the speed limit, or failed to come to a complete stop ... near as I can calculate, you violated your own "suggestions" 7 & 8. The list is endless .... you took a pen home provided by your company ... stole it. Is that your personal moral code? It's okay to steal as long as it doesn't exceed $1.59????

You apply your "personal moral code" when it's convenient ... kinda makes you sound like a sinner, huh?

Wow. Guess I really hit a nerve. Else why make it so personal. And you were wrong on all counts. I don't drive a car, and I have never stolen a pen. What moron does that? Any other ridiculous presumptions about me you'd like to make? More personal attacks? Now, of course your going to act all indignant, and insist that you didn't attack me.