Atheist answer to the 10 Commandments: 10 rational positions

[sealybobo]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be by the fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose and a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

But about a decade or two ago I realized all religions were corrupt and lies and I developed a personal relationship with god. I said, "god I don't mean to offend you but those religions are just lies so I'm just going to follow you" and I carried on having a personal relationship with thin air.

Perhaps you can give me the right number?

And I don't like your analogy. You are equating yourself to god. You say, "if I told you to meet me in a place and you'd be wearing a red rose".

Sorry but God never told me he was wearing a red rose. The only reason I may think a god exists is because people made that up. People BELIEVE there must be a creator. That's it. It never visited and there is no proof of its existence. So except for the organized religions lies, there has never been a visit from this god I don't care how much you think you talk to it.

 

[sealybobo]

So lets say I become a theist who believes that something must have created us. We couldn't have been created by ourselves. Lets say I believe that. Ok, so will god visit me then just because I believe that? I don't think so because for years I did believe that.

Any benefits I got out of it were all in my head.

 

[hobelim]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be by the fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose and a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

But about a decade or two ago I realized all religions were corrupt and lies and I developed a personal relationship with god. I said, "god I don't mean to offend you but those religions are just lies so I'm just going to follow you" and I carried on having a personal relationship with thin air.

Perhaps you can give me the right number?

And I don't like your analogy. You are equating yourself to god. You say, "if I told you to meet me in a place and you'd be wearing a red rose".

Sorry but God never told me he was wearing a red rose. The only reason I may think a god exists is because people made that up. People BELIEVE there must be a creator. That's it. It never visited and there is no proof of its existence. So except for the organized religions lies, there has never been a visit from this god I don't care how much you think you talk to it.

sloppy sloppy sloppy.

check out what you put in quotations supposedly about what I said. Not even close. a false quote if ever there was one.

I suggest you try to read more carefully, try to communicate better with human beings before you try to stand in the presence of God.

 

[hobelim]

So lets say I become a theist who believes that something must have created us. We couldn't have been created by ourselves. Lets say I believe that. Ok, so will god visit me then just because I believe that? I don't think so because for years I did believe that.

Any benefits I got out of it were all in my head.

Everything you see, feel, touch, hear, smell, perceive, dream or imagine, is all in your head.

 

[hobelim]

Any benefits I got out of it were all in my head.

As demonstrated by your own written flawed quotation about what I said, the problem with your inability to perceive the living God is also in your head.

 

[sealybobo]

Any benefits I got out of it were all in my head.

As demonstrated by your own written flawed quotation about what I said, the problem with your inability to perceive the living God is also in your head.

I agree

 

[BreezeWood]

1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
9. There is no right way to live.
10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

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These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.

Your list is a bunch of convoluted and contradicting poppycock. You toss out a bunch of meaningless platitudes and conjectures couched in self-aggrandizing opinions which you've not supported in any meaningful way.

1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
You're not the least bit open minded. In fact, you're very narrow minded. You refuse to accept evidence that doesn't support your narratives. You won't even acknowledge spiritual evidence, even when it is the foundation for your own premises.

2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
Again, you do not adhere to this whatsoever. You reject anything that conflicts with what you want to be true and you ridicule those who challenge your beliefs without a second thought.

3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
It's a reliable way to evaluate the physical world. To understand the natural world, you must also understand spiritual nature and the inadequacies of science to evaluate it.

4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
No they don't. You can't use your body to harm others. You don't have the right to use your body to destroy humanity or exploit resources you're not entitled to. Even though it's my own body, I can't get drunk and go driving down the road at 100 mph.

5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
This is your unfounded and unsupportable opinion. One that you refuse to apply #1-#3 to. Without the accountability of a God, you cannot define what is a "good person" in anything other than a subjective personal abstract. If you have rejected your own human spirit, you have deprived yourself of most of what delivers a meaningful and full life.

6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
Or WHAT? What if you DON'T take responsibility? What if you ignore consequences? Who holds you accountable for your actions?

7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
This one is great but it's totally rooted in our human spirituality and is a highly spiritual concept. There is no evidence of this in the wild animal kingdom. This is purely a human attribute which emerges as a result of our connection to spirit and comprehension of a power greater than self.

8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
Unborn, non-viable fetuses are human beings in a state of development. Here is where you totally depart from rules 1-7 so that you may invoke your own moral relativism. It illustrates the whole entire problem with your belief system.

9. There is no right way to live.
Then what exactly was your point in all of this?

10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.
Or WHAT? ...Again, this is a nice thought but what holds you accountable? After you're gone, who gives a shit whether you did this or not? And do you think you've left the world a better place by tearing down human spirituality and spirit-based morality?

.

8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations ...

Unborn, non-viable fetuses are human beings in a state of development. Here is where you totally depart from rules 1-7 so that you may invoke your own moral relativism. It illustrates the whole entire problem with your belief system.

boss: It illustrates the whole entire problem with your belief system.

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it's not in the least telling, the moral depravity of those that daily defile the Garden for which humanity resides by their praise for their own selves at its expense and to thwart the wishes of those that may bring harmony to nature as the most basic goal in accomplishing true Spiritual awareness.

 

[Spare_change]

Frankly, it is moronic to think that man is capable of policing his own behavior. History proves otherwise.

There are only two alternatives: God or government, and given the vagaries of government (it is, after all, run by man), God would appear to be the only choice.

You, like all theists, seem to be confusing social legal contracts with personal moral codes. Government has nothing to do with individuals following their personal moral codes; rather they are institutions created to enforce, and administrate the social legal construct. I'm curious what your "historical evidence" is that Man is incapable of "policing himself".

Yeah, right ... you conveniently parse the onion so that you don't have to deal with the center.

Where do you suppose the "personal moral code" comes from? What do you suppose was the basis of the Declaration of Independence? What is the correlation between the Constitution and the Bible?

Evidence? Let me see ....

Attilla the Hun defied all moral constructs ... Stalin did, too. Hitler violated a moral code ... Pot Pol did, too. The list is endless.

As a matter of fact, this morning on the way to work, YOU violated your supposed "personal moral code". You exceeded the speed limit, or failed to come to a complete stop ... near as I can calculate, you violated your own "suggestions" 7 & 8. The list is endless .... you took a pen home provided by your company ... stole it. Is that your personal moral code? It's okay to steal as long as it doesn't exceed $1.59????

You apply your "personal moral code" when it's convenient ... kinda makes you sound like a sinner, huh?

Ok I went too fast and broke other rules. You guys break rules all the time and your religion forgives all sins as long as you are a believer

Once again, your ignorance just boils to the top. You have no functional understanding of the relationship between God and a believer. You are clearly incapable of intelligent comment about that relationship.

Funny because I myself used to believe I had a personal relationship with the lord. Then I realized he doesn’t exist. It was hard to give up even. I would find myself talking to it even though I knew there’s no god there. That’s what brainwashing and wishful thinking can do

Bullshit .... you have never had a relationship with God.

Please don't make stuff up to try to justify your nonsense.

 

[Spare_change]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be standing by the water fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose on a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

Talk about making absolutely no sense whatsoever .... this just might be the epitome.

 

[Tuatara]

The personal attack on me aside, your response suggests that there is "spiritual evidence" that is objective, and verifiable. I have yet to see any presented.

It is objective and verifiable IF you accept spiritual evidence.... you don't.

Scientific studies, time and time again, have proven that people with strong spiritual foundations are far less likely to suffer depression, drug addiction, suicides, gambling or drinking problems and generally enjoy better overall health. (less heart attacks, etc.)

So we can objectively conclude, based on the scientific evidence, humans gain tremendous benefit from being spiritually connected. In addition, people have actually overcome terminal illnesses through prayer and strong spiritual faith. One of the most intriguing new methods of medical treatment for the terminally ill is spiritual therapy.

You want to address the Anthropic Principle? How about the paradoxical argument that it's impossible for physical nature, matter and energy to have created itself? You see, when you open your mind to possibilities outside of the familiar physical nature you know, then there is spiritual evidence. You just refuse to accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative or jive with the preconceived beliefs you have.

Or live a life constantly being surprised, and disappointed by the negative consequences of your unexamined life.

Why would you give a solitary shit if it doesn't effect you personally? You're not explaining that. If nothing holds you accountable for your actions, who gives a flying fuck?

Moral relativism is my position.

I know, and therein lies your problem. "Morality" simply becomes whatever you happen to define it as at any given point in time. You can manipulate it and alter it as you please in order to justify whatever makes you happy in the moment. In other words, it becomes meaningless and pointless.

Do you have links to these scientific studies.

 

[Boss]

Do you have links to these scientific studies.

I'm sure you'll find them if you research it. I don't play the "cite game" on forums, it's boring and pointless to me. I post a link, you divert the topic to critique the link... yawn. I' rather you just do the research on your own if you're interested and I'll stand by my statements. Thanks

 

[Blackrook]

1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
4. Every person has the right to control their own body.
5. God is not necessary to be a good person, or to live a full and meaningful life.
6. Be mindful of the consequences of all of your actions and recognise that you must take responsibility for them.
7. Treat others as you would want them to treat you, and can reasonably expect they want to be treated.
8. We have the responsibility to consider others, including future generations - which is not to be confused with unborn non-viable fetuses.
9. There is no right way to live.
10. Leave the world a better place than you found it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are rational positions by which to live one's life; unlike certain "commandments" of an irrational mythology one might mention.

Thou shalt not murder is not even on the list.

That probably explains why atheists have murdered so many people.

 

[Tuatara]

Do you have links to these scientific studies.

I'm sure you'll find them if you research it. I don't play the "cite game" on forums, it's boring and pointless to me. I post a link, you divert the topic to critique the link... yawn. I' rather you just do the research on your own if you're interested and I'll stand by my statements. Thanks

.How about this statement.

You make an assertion, you need to back up that assertion. Of course I would critique it if I didn't agree with it or I found findings that contradict it. That is what you do on a debate forum.

I did find the much talked about paper by DR. Deborah Kornah titled The Impact of Spirituality on Mental health where she shares the problems and limitations with this kind of work..

One of the key shortcomings in the field is that it relies almost exclusively on quantitative measures, which may not fully access the meaning spiritual activity has for the individual. Quantitative research tends to try and isolate the impact of one activity (e.g. church attendance) upon another (e.g. level of depression), which may not always capture the rich and complex interactions of other factors on any association found. A further methodological limitation of the research is that it focuses on the effects of spirituality on mental health problems. Few studies address the mechanisms through which spirituality may promote good mental health and wellbeing in populations without those problems. A conceptual limitation of the field relates to definitions used. Whilst there is recognition that there are differences between religion and spirituality, the distinction between the two is often blurred, with much of the research using measures of religious practice as a proxy.

Many studies also show that less intelligent people are happier but I'm willing to bet there are flaws in these studies also.

The study also claims to be biased.
https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/sites/default/files/impact-spirituality.pdf

 

[Blackrook]

The Satanic Church has only one Commandment, "Do as thou wilt."

The atheist commandments don't look like they're any better.

There's no commandments against lying, cheating, killing or stealing.

 

[sealybobo]

You, like all theists, seem to be confusing social legal contracts with personal moral codes. Government has nothing to do with individuals following their personal moral codes; rather they are institutions created to enforce, and administrate the social legal construct. I'm curious what your "historical evidence" is that Man is incapable of "policing himself".

Yeah, right ... you conveniently parse the onion so that you don't have to deal with the center.

Where do you suppose the "personal moral code" comes from? What do you suppose was the basis of the Declaration of Independence? What is the correlation between the Constitution and the Bible?

Evidence? Let me see ....

Attilla the Hun defied all moral constructs ... Stalin did, too. Hitler violated a moral code ... Pot Pol did, too. The list is endless.

As a matter of fact, this morning on the way to work, YOU violated your supposed "personal moral code". You exceeded the speed limit, or failed to come to a complete stop ... near as I can calculate, you violated your own "suggestions" 7 & 8. The list is endless .... you took a pen home provided by your company ... stole it. Is that your personal moral code? It's okay to steal as long as it doesn't exceed $1.59????

You apply your "personal moral code" when it's convenient ... kinda makes you sound like a sinner, huh?

Ok I went too fast and broke other rules. You guys break rules all the time and your religion forgives all sins as long as you are a believer

Once again, your ignorance just boils to the top. You have no functional understanding of the relationship between God and a believer. You are clearly incapable of intelligent comment about that relationship.

Funny because I myself used to believe I had a personal relationship with the lord. Then I realized he doesn’t exist. It was hard to give up even. I would find myself talking to it even though I knew there’s no god there. That’s what brainwashing and wishful thinking can do

Bullshit .... you have never had a relationship with God.

Please don't make stuff up to try to justify your nonsense.

I know it’s hard for a person like you to believe but it’s true. I used to be gullible too

 

[sealybobo]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be standing by the water fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose on a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

Talk about making absolutely no sense whatsoever .... this just might be the epitome.

Even I agree

 

[sealybobo]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be by the fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose and a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

But about a decade or two ago I realized all religions were corrupt and lies and I developed a personal relationship with god. I said, "god I don't mean to offend you but those religions are just lies so I'm just going to follow you" and I carried on having a personal relationship with thin air.

Perhaps you can give me the right number?

And I don't like your analogy. You are equating yourself to god. You say, "if I told you to meet me in a place and you'd be wearing a red rose".

Sorry but God never told me he was wearing a red rose. The only reason I may think a god exists is because people made that up. People BELIEVE there must be a creator. That's it. It never visited and there is no proof of its existence. So except for the organized religions lies, there has never been a visit from this god I don't care how much you think you talk to it.

sloppy sloppy sloppy.

check out what you put in quotations supposedly about what I said. Not even close. a false quote if ever there was one.

I suggest you try to read more carefully, try to communicate better with human beings before you try to stand in the presence of God.

Gods everywhere. When am I not standing in the presence of your god?

 

[hobelim]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be by the fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose and a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

But about a decade or two ago I realized all religions were corrupt and lies and I developed a personal relationship with god. I said, "god I don't mean to offend you but those religions are just lies so I'm just going to follow you" and I carried on having a personal relationship with thin air.

Perhaps you can give me the right number?

And I don't like your analogy. You are equating yourself to god. You say, "if I told you to meet me in a place and you'd be wearing a red rose".

Sorry but God never told me he was wearing a red rose. The only reason I may think a god exists is because people made that up. People BELIEVE there must be a creator. That's it. It never visited and there is no proof of its existence. So except for the organized religions lies, there has never been a visit from this god I don't care how much you think you talk to it.

sloppy sloppy sloppy.

check out what you put in quotations supposedly about what I said. Not even close. a false quote if ever there was one.

I suggest you try to read more carefully, try to communicate better with human beings before you try to stand in the presence of God.

Gods everywhere. When am I not standing in the presence of your god?

God is everywhere? lol...who told you that?

In Gehenna, God is nowhere. Isn't that what you are complaining about?

 

[sealybobo]

What do you mean if I took the time to formulate an image of god on a more rational foundation I would have connected? What the fuck does that even mean? Is it a fact I would have connected? Or is it possible I could have tried what you are suggesting and not connected?

I love it when theists think we didn't do it right. We don't believe because somehow we are doing something wrong. Our hearts need to be purified first or cleansed for it to work.

You didn't get it wrong, you got it right.There is no such thing as a three in one god that became human being.

What I meant is that if you took the three minutes necessary to conclude that God never was and never will become a human being you might have directed your prayers to a being that actually fits the definition of God, the God that actually exists, insuring a reply.


Like I said, if you wanted to call someone and kept dialing the wrong number they couldn't answer even if they wanted to.

If you wanted to meet me in a busy public place and I told you that I would be by the fountain wearing a white rose on my lapel but along the way you ran into someone who told you that I really wear a red rose and a cape and hang out by a statue, you would never find me, speak to me, or hear me speak to you, if you set aside what you already know to be the truth and put your faith in a lie....

But about a decade or two ago I realized all religions were corrupt and lies and I developed a personal relationship with god. I said, "god I don't mean to offend you but those religions are just lies so I'm just going to follow you" and I carried on having a personal relationship with thin air.

Perhaps you can give me the right number?

And I don't like your analogy. You are equating yourself to god. You say, "if I told you to meet me in a place and you'd be wearing a red rose".

Sorry but God never told me he was wearing a red rose. The only reason I may think a god exists is because people made that up. People BELIEVE there must be a creator. That's it. It never visited and there is no proof of its existence. So except for the organized religions lies, there has never been a visit from this god I don't care how much you think you talk to it.

sloppy sloppy sloppy.

check out what you put in quotations supposedly about what I said. Not even close. a false quote if ever there was one.

I suggest you try to read more carefully, try to communicate better with human beings before you try to stand in the presence of God.

Gods everywhere. When am I not standing in the presence of your god?

God is everywhere? lol...who told you that?

In Gehenna, God is nowhere. Isn't that what you are complaining about?

Just a silly concept so many believe. We are still a primitive species

 

[Correll]

1. Be open minded and willing to alter your beliefs with new evidence.
2. Strive to understand what is most likely to be true, not believe what you want to be true.
3. The scientific method is the most reliable way of understanding the natural world.
4. .....

What say you off all the scientific evidence that all people, including atheists, strive to rationalize what they emotionally believe and only use reason and evidence to convince OTHERS, not themselves?


Thus, making your point number ONE, and TWO, to be effectively delusional and contradictory with number THREE.