Athiest Playbook

[PostmodernProph]

Or, better to understand people don't need God. Do you? I say its keeping us ignorant and holding us back

and I consider that unfair. You don't even believe in God and you're ignorant. Why blame him?

 

[PostmodernProph]

Unfortunately Republican have shut down a lot of abortion clinics so its harder for poor women to get abortions.

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

 

[sealybobo]

Bl

Or, better to understand people don't need God. Do you? I say its keeping us ignorant and holding us back

and I consider that unfair. You don't even believe in God and you're ignorant. Why blame him?

Blame who? There you go again talking about it as if it exists. I blame religion for keeping people ignorant, not a God. Just like I don't blame Satan for evil.

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately Republican have shut down a lot of abortion clinics so its harder for poor women to get abortions.

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

 

[HUGGY]

If ever a theist stumps you, come here and post what they said. There isn't one argument for God that doesn't come without some fatal flaw.

Today I was having breakfast and listening to some stupid hillbillies talking about abortion and what the bible says. Then it hits me just how far gone theists are. Where would I even begin with this woman? Doesn't she realize men wrote that book? Why do I care what guys 1500 years ago wrote about a guy 2000 years ago? Imagine if people 1500 years ago could come know what we know now. Do you think people today would swallow such stories? Actually 200 years ago a large segment of us swallowed the Joseph Smith story and Arabs swallow the Mohammad experience.

You're all swallowing a 2000 or 7000 year old story if you count the founders of our lie the Jews. Moses is a myth. Let's stop this nonsense. It's holding us back.

I don't believe what they said happened happened 2000 years ago. So stop telling me what your story book says. We don't buy it! So what other reasons do you think "we are the only animals on this planet that God made in his image"

That is what the woman in the restaurant said. What possibly would make her believe this? A 2000 year old story? Imagine how much smarter we are today than we were 2000 years ago. I really hope we aren't as dumb as we are now 2000 years from now

The one constant among atheists is their inability to understand faith, or more exactly faith that doesn't line up with their own worldview.

Atheists understand "faith" perfectly well. Without faith there would be no scams. If you couldn't trick people into believing something they ordinarily wouldn't there would be no way saved armed robbery to separate them from their money.

Take away the promise of an afterlife and nearly all "faith" goes bye-bye.

 

[ChrisL]

Unfortunately Republican have shut down a lot of abortion clinics so its harder for poor women to get abortions.

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

Probably not because some religious people are against birth control too. Lol.

 

[ChrisL]

Bl

Or, better to understand people don't need God. Do you? I say its keeping us ignorant and holding us back

and I consider that unfair. You don't even believe in God and you're ignorant. Why blame him?

Blame who? There you go again talking about it as if it exists. I blame religion for keeping people ignorant, not a God. Just like I don't blame Satan for evil.

I agree. Thankfully Christianity has moderated somewhat. For a perfect example of what you're talking about, just look at the ME.

 

[zaangalewa]

Laws are unimportant if no one believes in justice any longer and tries to bring laws in relation with justice again. An aborted human being is for example not able to ask the USA for a compensation for the own stolen life.

Better six hours in school than not to sleep at all.

Good luck.

It is not a human being yet while in the women's body.

What's nonsense and everyone who is able to think knows it. Children from human beings are human beings and not hippopotami or spiders.

Why must she carry a fetus for nine months if she does not want or is not ready to care for a child? Why is a seed more important than a living tree?

I wonder myselve always why men are not existing in this discussion.

A seed is vulnerable for years to many threats from weather to animals. A full grown tree

Trees? Seeds? What about to speak about bees, beers, berries or extrabearastrians? I don't see any sense in such a war of words. If someone had aborted you then you would not live now.

can produce many seeds , the a seed will take a long time before it is read to produce seeds. If the forest is already crowded a seed will not thrive.

A woman has a right to determine what happens to her body. A save abortion will still allow her to have children later in life when she is ready. A back street abortion might well damage her permanently so she can never have children or even result in her death. Without a safe abortion you are risking not just a fetus but the woman as well.

You do not have the right to force a woman to carry a child is she does not want to. You are essentially making a slave for nine months and putting her though pain and suffering from morning sickness, deforming her body to labor. Slavery and torture, then she is either tied to carrying for the child or it goes into a failing adoption, foster care and family service. You are creating a child with mental scars just be prevent a women from having the freedom of her own body.

Where is the logic? You harm two lives while making a farce of the first amendment. The fetus cannot exist without the women and she have a right to her own life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Slavery was abolished and you want to bring it back?

There is not law that forces a women to be a baby factory.

Pregnancy is a commitment. No women should be force to carry and give birth if she is not fully ready to commit to do so. There enough unwanted children in this over populated world, and far too many in poverty or abused.

Your arguments are not convincing me. No one aborts a baby with some cells size if the father dies and the baby is the heir of some million dollars. And indeed no one has any right to kill human beings. That's independent from their parents, their age, their richdom, their size and so on and so on. The only reason is a conflict in the health of the mother. And indeed there's a priority for the life of the mother, because without mother anyway the baby is not able to survive. But this explains not the unbelievable high numbers of abortion.

Until the fetus is able to live outside the womb, it is not an infant.

That's wrong. A human being evolves as a human being.

Until that point the mother has a right to her own body. If she does not want to carry a child, she should not be forced to by anyone.

The mother and father made a contract with the spirit of life. Who kills the own child breaks the seal of truth and destroys a universe of possibilities. A doctor who is doing abortions is in conflict with the oath of Hippocrates. A doctor is not allowed to be a deathsman.

I don't know what you really defend if you defend abortions - but it has nothing to do with a reasonable human behavior nor with a loveful human society.

what of the harm to the mother?

A sea full of tears is not able to describe the hell of abortions. One of the most perfidious and terrible things is it how our world forces mothers to agree that their babies have to be killed in them. I guess the psychological pain of such wounds are so extraordinary high that it's impossible to feel the pain of this wounds any longer.

fathers are not always in the picture when a woman decides to get an abortion.

In my eyes intrigant men are the main reasion for this desaster worldwide, They give women no chance to be emancipated as women and mothers. They often like to see only another form of men in women. This breaks the women so they agree to let their babies be killed, A tragedy in many ways.

Raising a child on your own is a difficult choice. Not all women can do that.

I'm a Christian not a believer in nonsense nor a believer in immutable fate. A man and a women can have sex without tzeh result pregnancy. But if the woman is pregnant - then both together should be able to carry their baby a short time through this world of woe.

The mother is the patient, not the fetus.

Pregnancy is not a sickness.

The woman must decide to carry the fetus till birth and only the women.

A mother carries her fetus hopefully not only til birth but through the whole life. To give every mother thw right to let her children be executed independent from the age of her children would be a strange law - but there would be some logic inside. Abortion has no logic at all.

Oh by the way: My experience tells me that wars of words help no one and people who are pro-abortion will anyway ignore everything what anyone else says against abortion. So I try to say as less to this theme as possible. Unfortunateley to say nothing to such themes of absurde ways of antilife seems to be for some people an agreement.

Actually doctors can and have been mercy killers for those in pain and dying.

That's wrong. A doctor of medicine has no spiritual right to kill anyone. This has also to do with his profession: a healer is not a deathman. If someone likes to do suicide he has to do this on his own.

They can withhold medicine or increase medicine to the patient. Patients have the right to refuse meds and to be given enough to control pain.

A doctor has the duty to help to live - a patient has not the duty to let himselve help.

The woman has the right to refuse to carry a fetus.

To be honest: I would feel much more comfortable with a law what allows a woman to kill the idiot who made her pregnant. Her baby is innocent.

There might be any number of factors in her decision. There might be risks to her heath or she might carry genes that would give the infant a short life or disability for life. The choice should be between her and the doctor not those outside. Others should have no right to dictate to the women what she must do. That cruel and unusual punishment. Where is the difference between forcing a women into unwanted labor for nearly a year and slavery?

You have not right to control her body.

I never controled any body of any woman. What a nonsense. Again: It's an unalienable human right to live. Who says something else is either a liar or has absolutelly no plan what he is speaking about.

 

[zaangalewa]

Actually they did recreate a big bang in a lab.

Yeah? Pretty cool!


Not the same as recreating creation though, eh?

Our universe is expanding. What's beyond the edge of our universe? Are we like a giant lava lamp? I think so. I think there are probably other universes expanding in fact an infinite number of them. Do universes ever merge and become one big universe?

But I don't claim to know. We aren't even smart enough to get to other stars. The closest one would take 70,000 years to get to. Life might be very common we just don't know it.

And no matter what we learn nothing will prove or disprove pink unicorns or gods.

There is nothing beyond the edge of the universe according to physicists. Literally. No empty space, no 'other side'. Only the absolute value of 'nothing'.

The multi-verse theory is still in early infancy and there is no hard evidence that any other universe exists.

'Gods' are the mental crutch that uneducated people use to make scary reality not so scary. Which is fine as long as they don't try to force it on someone else. But they all seem to love to do just that.

One moment please - do you think because it is nothing beyond the [¿not existing?] edge of the universe this has something to do with a discrepancy between science and christian religion? Is a sentence like "God created the world out of nothing" not known in your culture? Christians say so since more than 1500 years. I remember St. Augustine who said something like: Before god created the world was nothing and the words of creation god used are timeless words.

There have been maybe 40,000 'gods' in human history.

Everyone that believes in one of them generally says the others are non-existent. It seems pretty arrogant for any one of them to claim to be THE truth, but each does.

Better to understand why human beings tend to 'need' a god.

Science doesn't create anything (in general, it does manipulate molecules), it merely reveals what is.

no comment

 

[zaangalewa]

and if you crush the shell of the one with a chick growing inside you kill the chick........

I have gushers of blessing flowing in my life. I'm watching a kids religious channel right now and they just sang a song that repeated this over and over for 5 minutes. I was so curious such a repetitive song would go on. Talk about brainwashing kids.

What happened to bugs Bunny?

So what about the pre chick. Life isn't that precious. The world doesn't miss a beat just keeps on turning.

so you don't disrespect life.

This means now: Either you believe god is not existing or you don't trust in god. In first case : everyone has a belief. I don't know your belief and indeed it's for me personally completly unimportnat what your belief is, I'm interested in the answer you are. Everyone is an answer to everything what had happened before and waht leaded to the own existance. In the second case. To trust in god is more like the art of life itselve. It doesn't mean to spring from a bridge and to expect the hand of god will help. It means god shows signs and ways what are outside of the own person - ... also inside - but the message comes not from the person oneselve - the message comes from god. Even the message "You will die now" is hopefully not a message of fear if god is with us and shows to us that this is in his will. Someone is full of awareness who trusts in god and not a blind subject in a blind world.

No. You have to respect life - otherwise you are not able to respect yourselve. You are what you are.

I tell you what's good and not so good because of a fruit of paradise. You tell me it's not good to tell you what's good. That's what you think what's good.

The words and your spirit here seem not be in balance. The words are words of freedom, self-destination and order - the spirit is a spirit of a hungry revolution looking for the own children.

Strange. No idea what you like to say with this sentence.

To be honest: not really. If I could kill someone and because of this abortion would stop worldwide then I guess I had to do so - even if I would know that I will go to hell for this deed. But that's not the solution for this problem. It would be more easy everyone would live in love of the child in the manger and not in fear of the own children.

Maybe I understand in a better way the difference between an ox and donkey. A donkey hears with his horns.

It's important to me what you believe because you pass laws based on your beliefs and I got to live with you.

I'm not a member of your world - I'm a German. You know this. Your stereotypes have nothing to do with me. What Americans call "justice" in sense of laws is in my eyes often only a kind of joke - even harmful joke sometimes. In general I think laws are counterproductive for justice in many ways. The letter kills but formulas are not empty - there's a spirit inside. I guess with their spirit Christians could live very well in an anarchic world without laws - but an anarchic world without laws could not live. For Germany I would suggest to create completly new laws. Specially this nonsense to say "guilty in the name of ..." has to stop forever. For me personally it's not very important what someone did in the past - it's more important how dangerous someone is for the life of others now and in the future.

Constitution facts logic and science trump all religions not just yours.

Again: I'm a German. I don't discuss about the american constitution because it's sacrosanct. You are using your constitution like a shield - but indeed science is not a religion or an antireligion. People of all religions are able to be scientists.

You are aware this is a US message board? You expect americans to not speak of their own laws as that is their frame reference to compare the world in discussions?

Laws are unimportant if no one believes in justice any longer and tries to bring laws in relation with justice again. An aborted human being is for example not able to ask the USA for a compensation for the own stolen life.

World history and geography and political studies are not a major focus in schools. It is not like the european schools.

Better six hours in school than not to sleep at all.

Many are trying to understand how things are and why religion and politics are so entangled and viewed across the pond

Good luck.

It comes down to this. Should I have to have a baby if I get pregnant. I say not if I don't want to I shouldn't.

Why don't you help all the living humans that are alive and suffering.

I bet finances are a reason abortion is necessary. Let's solve poverty then worry about abortion later. Maybe abortions will go down if poverty is eliminated. Be as passionate about solving as you are abortion and it might lower the number of people that get them.

Let's pay for women's iud'siud's in obamacare. They are 90% effective over 10 years. Better than condoms and pills. Imagine how many less planned pregnancies would happen? So less abortion
But the delusion that is Catholicism is against birth control.

Catholics never were against birth control. We are discussing sometimes somehthing - like for example the use of condoms in case of Aids or the use of the pill in context with birth control, that's all.

And the last of my descriptions for Obama was by the way "emperor William Obama" when I heard he called the PKK a terrororganisation. If I see it in the right way then the Kurds were the only reliable partner for the USA, when the USA created the terrororganisation "IS" as a reaction of the idiocies of the american politics in the Iraq and Syria.

 

[zaangalewa]

Heh

Actually they did recreate a big bang in a lab.

Yeah? Pretty cool!


Not the same as recreating creation though, eh?

Our universe is expanding. What's beyond the edge of our universe? Are we like a giant lava lamp? I think so. I think there are probably other universes expanding in fact an infinite number of them. Do universes ever merge and become one big universe?

But I don't claim to know. We aren't even smart enough to get to other stars. The closest one would take 70,000 years to get to. Life might be very common we just don't know it.

And no matter what we learn nothing will prove or disprove pink unicorns or gods.

There is nothing beyond the edge of the universe according to physicists. Literally. No empty space, no 'other side'. Only the absolute value of 'nothing'.

The multi-verse theory is still in early infancy and there is no hard evidence that any other universe exists.

'Gods' are the mental crutch that uneducated people use to make scary reality not so scary. Which is fine as long as they don't try to force it on someone else. But they all seem to love to do just that.

One moment please - do you think because it is nothing beyond the [¿not existing?] edge of the universe this has something to do with a discrepancy between science and christian religion? Is a sentence like "God created the world out of nothing" not known in your culture? Christians say so since more than 1500 years. I remember St. Augustine who said something like: Before god created the world was nothing and the words of creation god used are timeless words.

St con also believed that the earth was in a fixed position and everything we saw was revolving around us and put here for us. He believed that there were no other living things in the universe because he had no idea how big the universe is. And he believed a God talked to Abraham and moses. He may have even believed this God talked to him.

no comment

 

[sealybobo]

If ever a theist stumps you, come here and post what they said. There isn't one argument for God that doesn't come without some fatal flaw.

Today I was having breakfast and listening to some stupid hillbillies talking about abortion and what the bible says. Then it hits me just how far gone theists are. Where would I even begin with this woman? Doesn't she realize men wrote that book? Why do I care what guys 1500 years ago wrote about a guy 2000 years ago? Imagine if people 1500 years ago could come know what we know now. Do you think people today would swallow such stories? Actually 200 years ago a large segment of us swallowed the Joseph Smith story and Arabs swallow the Mohammad experience.

You're all swallowing a 2000 or 7000 year old story if you count the founders of our lie the Jews. Moses is a myth. Let's stop this nonsense. It's holding us back.

I don't believe what they said happened happened 2000 years ago. So stop telling me what your story book says. We don't buy it! So what other reasons do you think "we are the only animals on this planet that God made in his image"

That is what the woman in the restaurant said. What possibly would make her believe this? A 2000 year old story? Imagine how much smarter we are today than we were 2000 years ago. I really hope we aren't as dumb as we are now 2000 years from now

The one constant among atheists is their inability to understand faith, or more exactly faith that doesn't line up with their own worldview.

Atheists understand "faith" perfectly well. Without faith there would be no scams. If you couldn't trick people into believing something they ordinarily wouldn't there would be no way saved armed robbery to separate them from their money.

Take away the promise of an afterlife and nearly all "faith" goes bye-bye.

You are right. Thank you for reminding me that every conversation I've ever had with a religious person ends with "well, you're just gonna have to have faith".

This was one of the things that made me realize all the organized religions are made up. There is no way a perfect God its going to make believing that story were those stories the test to get into heaven. So then it wasn't that far or long before I realized if all that's made up maybe God is too.

Does a mathematics expert tell you that you just gotta have faith his answer is right or does he show you the facts?

 

[sealybobo]

I have gushers of blessing flowing in my life. I'm watching a kids religious channel right now and they just sang a song that repeated this over and over for 5 minutes. I was so curious such a repetitive song would go on. Talk about brainwashing kids.

What happened to bugs Bunny?

So what about the pre chick. Life isn't that precious. The world doesn't miss a beat just keeps on turning.

It's important to me what you believe because you pass laws based on your beliefs and I got to live with you.

I'm not a member of your world - I'm a German. You know this. Your stereotypes have nothing to do with me. What Americans call "justice" in sense of laws is in my eyes often only a kind of joke - even harmful joke sometimes. In general I think laws are counterproductive for justice in many ways. The letter kills but formulas are not empty - there's a spirit inside. I guess with their spirit Christians could live very well in an anarchic world without laws - but an anarchic world without laws could not live. For Germany I would suggest to create completly new laws. Specially this nonsense to say "guilty in the name of ..." has to stop forever. For me personally it's not very important what someone did in the past - it's more important how dangerous someone is for the life of others now and in the future.

Constitution facts logic and science trump all religions not just yours.

Again: I'm a German. I don't discuss about the american constitution because it's sacrosanct. You are using your constitution like a shield - but indeed science is not a religion or an antireligion. People of all religions are able to be scientists.

You are aware this is a US message board? You expect americans to not speak of their own laws as that is their frame reference to compare the world in discussions?

Laws are unimportant if no one believes in justice any longer and tries to bring laws in relation with justice again. An aborted human being is for example not able to ask the USA for a compensation for the own stolen life.

World history and geography and political studies are not a major focus in schools. It is not like the european schools.

Better six hours in school than not to sleep at all.

Many are trying to understand how things are and why religion and politics are so entangled and viewed across the pond

Good luck.

It comes down to this. Should I have to have a baby if I get pregnant. I say not if I don't want to I shouldn't.

Why don't you help all the living humans that are alive and suffering.

I bet finances are a reason abortion is necessary. Let's solve poverty then worry about abortion later. Maybe abortions will go down if poverty is eliminated. Be as passionate about solving as you are abortion and it might lower the number of people that get them.

Let's pay for women's iud'siud's in obamacare. They are 90% effective over 10 years. Better than condoms and pills. Imagine how many less planned pregnancies would happen? So less abortion
But the delusion that is Catholicism is against birth control.

Catholics never were against birth control. We are discussing sometimes somehthing - like for example the use of condoms in case of Aids or the use of the pill in context with birth control, that's all.

And the last of my descriptions for Obama was by the way "emperor William Obama" when I heard he called the PKK a terrororganisation. If I see it in the right way then the Kurds were the only reliable partner for the USA, when the USA created the terrororganisation "IS" as a reaction of the idiocies of the american politics in the Iraq and Syria.

Catholics aren't anti birth control anymore? Then why did all my Catholic friends my whole life all tell me they are? Or are you saying the church has changed its position?

You tell me why I should believe what you say over ten other Catholics.

And if you are right, which you are not, why wasn't the rule clear to all of you? Why so much confusion? It's because they use that book to make you confused. Control you. You think it makes you good. Some of you are obsessed. I gotta go to work. Good morning

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm not a member of your world - I'm a German. You know this. Your stereotypes have nothing to do with me. What Americans call "justice" in sense of laws is in my eyes often only a kind of joke - even harmful joke sometimes. In general I think laws are counterproductive for justice in many ways. The letter kills but formulas are not empty - there's a spirit inside. I guess with their spirit Christians could live very well in an anarchic world without laws - but an anarchic world without laws could not live. For Germany I would suggest to create completly new laws. Specially this nonsense to say "guilty in the name of ..." has to stop forever. For me personally it's not very important what someone did in the past - it's more important how dangerous someone is for the life of others now and in the future.

Again: I'm a German. I don't discuss about the american constitution because it's sacrosanct. You are using your constitution like a shield - but indeed science is not a religion or an antireligion. People of all religions are able to be scientists.

You are aware this is a US message board? You expect americans to not speak of their own laws as that is their frame reference to compare the world in discussions?

Laws are unimportant if no one believes in justice any longer and tries to bring laws in relation with justice again. An aborted human being is for example not able to ask the USA for a compensation for the own stolen life.

World history and geography and political studies are not a major focus in schools. It is not like the european schools.

Better six hours in school than not to sleep at all.

Many are trying to understand how things are and why religion and politics are so entangled and viewed across the pond

Good luck.

It comes down to this. Should I have to have a baby if I get pregnant. I say not if I don't want to I shouldn't.

Why don't you help all the living humans that are alive and suffering.

I bet finances are a reason abortion is necessary. Let's solve poverty then worry about abortion later. Maybe abortions will go down if poverty is eliminated. Be as passionate about solving as you are abortion and it might lower the number of people that get them.

Let's pay for women's iud'siud's in obamacare. They are 90% effective over 10 years. Better than condoms and pills. Imagine how many less planned pregnancies would happen? So less abortion
But the delusion that is Catholicism is against birth control.

Catholics never were against birth control. We are discussing sometimes somehthing - like for example the use of condoms in case of Aids or the use of the pill in context with birth control, that's all.

And the last of my descriptions for Obama was by the way "emperor William Obama" when I heard he called the PKK a terrororganisation. If I see it in the right way then the Kurds were the only reliable partner for the USA, when the USA created the terrororganisation "IS" as a reaction of the idiocies of the american politics in the Iraq and Syria.

Catholics aren't anti birth control anymore?

Catholics are not responsible if Anticatholics start to believe in their own propagda against Catholics. Someteims even Catholics believe in the propaganda against Catholics.

Then why did all my Catholic friends my whole life all tell me they are? Or are you saying the church has changed its position?

No. As far as I know "The church" changed not any position in the question of birth control.

You tell me why I should believe what you say over ten other Catholics.

On no resaon.

And if you are right, which you are not,

As far as I know the catholic church is the only christian church what sees in natural famlily planning no problems.

why wasn't the rule clear to all of you? Why so much confusion?

This was always clear and I don't know why some people are confused.

It's because they use that book to make you confused. Control you. You think it makes you good. Some of you are obsessed. I gotta go to work. Good morning

Sounds a litte "ballaballa" what you say here. No idea wether this german expression needs a translation.

 

[PostmodernProph]

Unfortunately Republican have shut down a lot of abortion clinics so its harder for poor women to get abortions.

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

for one thing, there is very little correlation between poverty and abortion......

 

[sealybobo]

Unfortunately Republican have shut down a lot of abortion clinics so its harder for poor women to get abortions.

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

for one thing, there is very little correlation between poverty and abortion......

No, theres a corrrelation between poor people with kids and poverty. Lower the number of unplanned pregnancies whether through contraception or birth control and you will lower the crime rate and poverty. A woman with two kids in poverty has a harder time getting out of poverty than a woman with no children

 

[PostmodernProph]

I will admit this is unfair......we should make it harder for rich women to get abortions immediately to end this injustice.....

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

for one thing, there is very little correlation between poverty and abortion......

No, theres a corrrelation between poor people with kids and poverty. Lower the number of unplanned pregnancies whether through contraception or birth control and you will lower the crime rate and poverty. A woman with two kids in poverty has a harder time getting out of poverty than a woman with no children

Guttmacher Institute says 42% of abortions are obtained by women living in poverty. Obviously that means the majority of women getting abortions (58%) are NOT......
Induced Abortion in the United States

 

[aris2chat]

It is not a human being yet while in the women's body.

science disagrees.......and, because it IS a human being answers all your other questions.....

till it can live on it's own outside of the body it is not a human being. If the mother dies, so does the fetus. Till it can live on it's own it is part of the mother's body and it is up to her what happens.

If the mother does not want to get prenatal care, or uses herbs or other means to induce a miscarriage, it is her business and not everyone else in the state or country. It is her life and her body. You can't force the women against her will to be a slave for nine months or longer because of the fetus.

 

[aris2chat]

It is not a human being yet while in the women's body.

What's nonsense and everyone who is able to think knows it. Children from human beings are human beings and not hippopotami or spiders.

Why must she carry a fetus for nine months if she does not want or is not ready to care for a child? Why is a seed more important than a living tree?

I wonder myselve always why men are not existing in this discussion.

A seed is vulnerable for years to many threats from weather to animals. A full grown tree

Trees? Seeds? What about to speak about bees, beers, berries or extrabearastrians? I don't see any sense in such a war of words. If someone had aborted you then you would not live now.

can produce many seeds , the a seed will take a long time before it is read to produce seeds. If the forest is already crowded a seed will not thrive.

A woman has a right to determine what happens to her body. A save abortion will still allow her to have children later in life when she is ready. A back street abortion might well damage her permanently so she can never have children or even result in her death. Without a safe abortion you are risking not just a fetus but the woman as well.

You do not have the right to force a woman to carry a child is she does not want to. You are essentially making a slave for nine months and putting her though pain and suffering from morning sickness, deforming her body to labor. Slavery and torture, then she is either tied to carrying for the child or it goes into a failing adoption, foster care and family service. You are creating a child with mental scars just be prevent a women from having the freedom of her own body.

Where is the logic? You harm two lives while making a farce of the first amendment. The fetus cannot exist without the women and she have a right to her own life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Slavery was abolished and you want to bring it back?

There is not law that forces a women to be a baby factory.

Pregnancy is a commitment. No women should be force to carry and give birth if she is not fully ready to commit to do so. There enough unwanted children in this over populated world, and far too many in poverty or abused.

Your arguments are not convincing me. No one aborts a baby with some cells size if the father dies and the baby is the heir of some million dollars. And indeed no one has any right to kill human beings. That's independent from their parents, their age, their richdom, their size and so on and so on. The only reason is a conflict in the health of the mother. And indeed there's a priority for the life of the mother, because without mother anyway the baby is not able to survive. But this explains not the unbelievable high numbers of abortion.

Until the fetus is able to live outside the womb, it is not an infant.

That's wrong. A human being evolves as a human being.

Until that point the mother has a right to her own body. If she does not want to carry a child, she should not be forced to by anyone.

The mother and father made a contract with the spirit of life. Who kills the own child breaks the seal of truth and destroys a universe of possibilities. A doctor who is doing abortions is in conflict with the oath of Hippocrates. A doctor is not allowed to be a deathsman.

I don't know what you really defend if you defend abortions - but it has nothing to do with a reasonable human behavior nor with a loveful human society.

what of the harm to the mother?

A sea full of tears is not able to describe the hell of abortions. One of the most perfidious and terrible things is it how our world forces mothers to agree that their babies have to be killed in them. I guess the psychological pain of such wounds are so extraordinary high that it's impossible to feel the pain of this wounds any longer.

fathers are not always in the picture when a woman decides to get an abortion.

In my eyes intrigant men are the main reasion for this desaster worldwide, They give women no chance to be emancipated as women and mothers. They often like to see only another form of men in women. This breaks the women so they agree to let their babies be killed, A tragedy in many ways.

Raising a child on your own is a difficult choice. Not all women can do that.

I'm a Christian not a believer in nonsense nor a believer in immutable fate. A man and a women can have sex without tzeh result pregnancy. But if the woman is pregnant - then both together should be able to carry their baby a short time through this world of woe.

The mother is the patient, not the fetus.

Pregnancy is not a sickness.

The woman must decide to carry the fetus till birth and only the women.

A mother carries her fetus hopefully not only til birth but through the whole life. To give every mother thw right to let her children be executed independent from the age of her children would be a strange law - but there would be some logic inside. Abortion has no logic at all.

Oh by the way: My experience tells me that wars of words help no one and people who are pro-abortion will anyway ignore everything what anyone else says against abortion. So I try to say as less to this theme as possible. Unfortunateley to say nothing to such themes of absurde ways of antilife seems to be for some people an agreement.

Actually doctors can and have been mercy killers for those in pain and dying.

That's wrong. A doctor of medicine has no spiritual right to kill anyone. This has also to do with his profession: a healer is not a deathman. If someone likes to do suicide he has to do this on his own.

They can withhold medicine or increase medicine to the patient. Patients have the right to refuse meds and to be given enough to control pain.

A doctor has the duty to help to live - a patient has not the duty to let himselve help.

The woman has the right to refuse to carry a fetus.

To be honest: I would feel much more comfortable with a law what allows a woman to kill the idiot who made her pregnant. Her baby is innocent.

There might be any number of factors in her decision. There might be risks to her heath or she might carry genes that would give the infant a short life or disability for life. The choice should be between her and the doctor not those outside. Others should have no right to dictate to the women what she must do. That cruel and unusual punishment. Where is the difference between forcing a women into unwanted labor for nearly a year and slavery?

You have not right to control her body.

I never controled any body of any woman. What a nonsense. Again: It's an unalienable human right to live. Who says something else is either a liar or has absolutelly no plan what he is speaking about.

Women are not forced to have an abortion. It is their right to choose if they want one. By the same token, women should not be forced to have a child. She might not be ready to be a mother.

A women in the navy might risk her chance as promotion and her spot on the ship because she is grounded. There might be other jobs where she might loose pay and positions because the company can not keep her in the same slot or give her the time needed for check-ups and maternity leave. Maybe the pregnancy would pose a danger or interfere with her job. Maybe she drives and happens to be short, to move the seat to make room for the belly means she can't reach the pedals anymore. Maybe she is a mechanic and can't roll under the cars. Maybe she work around radiation or electricity or chemicals.

A woman should not be forced to carry a fetus. Her bod should not be hijacked and pulled out of shape. She should not be forced to go through childbirth.

She is the only one that should be making any determination of what happens to her body.

 

[sealybobo]

They'll still be able to get them just like they did before roe v Wade.

if they can still get them we haven't made it harder.....I said make it harder.....

Then lets give any woman who is poor and sexually active and doesn't want kids free iud's with obamacare. If 90% of the abortions that would have happened in the next ten years didn't happen because the women never got pregnant, would that make you happy?

Either way those kids will never be born.

for one thing, there is very little correlation between poverty and abortion......

No, theres a corrrelation between poor people with kids and poverty. Lower the number of unplanned pregnancies whether through contraception or birth control and you will lower the crime rate and poverty. A woman with two kids in poverty has a harder time getting out of poverty than a woman with no children

Guttmacher Institute says 42% of abortions are obtained by women living in poverty. Obviously that means the majority of women getting abortions (58%) are NOT......
Induced Abortion in the United States

Ever consider a child would put some of those women in poverty?

I don't care either way. I think a woman should have the right even if she's rich and just doesn't want to birth a baby. Spare her your lecture.