Audio proves who shot down plane

[JimH52]

We know Putin wouldn't make a move like that without alerting Obama in advance, so the question is "Why did Obama give Putin the go ahead?"

Are you off your Meds again?

So it appears. The world is not reacting in a positive manner to this slaughter:

Jet downing a 'game-changer' in Russia's relationships - CNN.com

The Russian rebels control this area, are hindering investigation, and recovery of remains, PUTIN'S BOYS:

The crash site is massive -- an international observer called it "one of the biggest -- or the biggest -- crime scenes in the world right now."
Concern is growing that the site has not been sealed off as it should have been and that vital evidence is being tampered with. Meanwhile, armed rebels have greeted international observers with hostility.

I also heard that locals were stealing some of the Vitim's credit cards and using them, Those responsible need to be brought to justice. That includes those who supplied to weapons....Putin. He will be a pariah on the world stage from this point on. An accomplice to the murder of nearly 300 innocents, including 80 children.

 

[dilloduck]

Are you off your Meds again?

So it appears. The world is not reacting in a positive manner to this slaughter:

Jet downing a 'game-changer' in Russia's relationships - CNN.com

The Russian rebels control this area, are hindering investigation, and recovery of remains, PUTIN'S BOYS:

The crash site is massive -- an international observer called it "one of the biggest -- or the biggest -- crime scenes in the world right now."
Concern is growing that the site has not been sealed off as it should have been and that vital evidence is being tampered with. Meanwhile, armed rebels have greeted international observers with hostility.

I also heard that locals were stealing some of the Vitim's credit cards and using them, Those responsible need to be brought to justice. That includes those who supplied to weapons....Putin. He will be a pariah on the world stage from this point on. An accomplice to the murder of nearly 300 innocents, including 80 children.

Probably we'll have to wait until the war is over don't you think. ?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Alleged phone call: 'We have just shot down a plane' - CNN.com

It was some of Putin's thugs.

Now the Pootarians will love him that much more.

Seriously.

That plane was full of AIDS researchers. Some RWs hate gays and actually believe they are the cause of AIDS.

BTW, our son is a virus researcher who specializes in HIV. Thankfully, he was nowhere near that plane.

 

[paperview]

Maddow: NATO warned in June about Russian-trained anti-aircraft gunners in Ukraine

<snip>

"Furthermore, she said it takes a lot of training to operate these weapons. You don&#8217;t just learn to use them &#8220;on a firing range,&#8221; she said. It requires weeks or months to learn to operate one of these systems.


We had some warning on this, she went on to say. Two weeks ago, on June 30, Air Force Gen. Phillip Breedlove spoke at the Pentagon.


Maddow reported, &#8220;And in that press briefing, he said that surface-to-air missiles, anti-aircraft systems, not just the shoulder-fired ones, but the big, vehicle-borne surface-to-air missiles that are designed to shoot down airplanes, those had been observed in eastern Ukraine and just across the border in Western Russia.&#8221;


NATO had observed in the early part of the summer, that Russia was moving heavy anti-aircraft equipment over the border into Ukraine and training the rebels there to use them.


&#8220;This was sort of a dry Pentagon briefing from two-and-a-half weeks ago,&#8221; said Maddow, &#8220;talking about something that wasn&#8217;t getting all that much attention at the time, but all of a sudden, what he just said there was maybe the most important thing in the whole world.&#8221;


Two-and-a-half weeks ago, she said, NATO knew this was a possibility. And then on Monday, &#8220;they proved that it was true&#8221; when the separatist rebels shot down a Ukrainian transport plane, followed on Wednesday by the destruction of Flight MH17.


&#8220;That is not conjecture,&#8221; she said, &#8220;that is what we know.&#8221;

 

[Katzndogz]

There is nothing obama can do, or even should do. Obviously he should not retaliate against Russia because a Malaysian aircraft was shot down over Ukraine. We don't even have a right to access the crash site!

 

[Vikrant]

It seems like CNN has accused Russia. I am just curious what is Malaysia or the US military's view on this? Does anyone have any idea?

 

[bodecea]

Are you off your Meds again?

So it appears. The world is not reacting in a positive manner to this slaughter:

Jet downing a 'game-changer' in Russia's relationships - CNN.com

The Russian rebels control this area, are hindering investigation, and recovery of remains, PUTIN'S BOYS:

The crash site is massive -- an international observer called it "one of the biggest -- or the biggest -- crime scenes in the world right now."
Concern is growing that the site has not been sealed off as it should have been and that vital evidence is being tampered with. Meanwhile, armed rebels have greeted international observers with hostility.

I also heard that locals were stealing some of the Vitim's credit cards and using them, Those responsible need to be brought to justice. That includes those who supplied to weapons....Putin. He will be a pariah on the world stage from this point on. An accomplice to the murder of nearly 300 innocents, including 80 children.

It would be justice if what you said came true...but the RWrs will go back to positively comparing Putin to Obama very shortly.

 

[JimH52]

There is nothing obama can do, or even should do. Obviously he should not retaliate against Russia because a Malaysian aircraft was shot down over Ukraine. We don't even have a right to access the crash site!

Yes we do. This is Ukrainian territory and the official government has accepted our offer of help. The "rebels" are Russian backed intruders who are holding territory illegally.

If I were Putin, I would be afraid that Russia could be on the same road the USSR went down. The international community is going to leave Russia on an economic island leading only to their adversary China. I am sure Putin hated to see this happen. The game in Ukraine will change from now on.

 

[daveman]

We know Putin wouldn't make a move like that without alerting Obama in advance, so the question is "Why did Obama give Putin the go ahead?"

There is no way Sara Putin alerted Obama of anything. Sara Putin knows Obama would have told her to go f**k a moose. Sara Putin hates Obama almost as much as she hates America.

Wow. That was particularly stupid, even for you.

 

[paperview]

There is nothing obama can do, or even should do. Obviously he should not retaliate against Russia because a Malaysian aircraft was shot down over Ukraine. We don't even have a right to access the crash site!

Yes we do. This is Ukrainian territory and the official government has accepted our offer of help. The "rebels" are Russian backed intruders who are holding territory illegally.

If I were Putin, I would be afraid that Russia could be on the same road the USSR went down. The international community is going to leave Russia on an economic island leading only to their adversary China. I am sure Putin hated to see this happen. The game in Ukraine will change from now on.

Good article here from Politico Magazine:

Putin's Dangerous Proxy War

Vladimir Putin has been playing a dangerous game in Eastern Ukraine. On Thursday, it backfired badly.


Ever since seizing Crimea earlier this year, the Russian president has been offering tacit &#8211; and sometimes more direct &#8211; support to pro-Russian separatist groups battling the Ukrainian government. Although Putin seems to have backed off the idea of a cross-border military invasion and has been trying, half-heartedly it appears, to disengage himself from the conflict, he&#8217;s yet to make a full break with the rebels.


After Thursday&#8217;s shoot-down of a Malaysian Airlines flight over rebel-held territory in Ukraine&#8217;s volatile east, killing 295 people, he may no longer have much choice in the matter.

If the rebels are responsible for the downing of Flight 17 (and from all appearances that seems to be the case), they have dealt Putin a grievous blow &#8211; one that will likely force him to cut ties with them or face even harsher economic and diplomatic censure.

But whatever choice he makes, the fallout from this tragedy could reverberate for years to come. It provides an object lesson in the dangers of getting too cozy with insurgents who are neither under one&#8217;s control nor with whom one&#8217;s interests are firmly aligned.


That lesson extends to Washington. For many months, armchair military strategists on Capitol Hill and elsewhere have harshly criticized President Obama for refusing to arm the motley groups of rebels in the Syrian civil war. In recent weeks Obama has begun to ramp up moves in that direction. But the blowback from Putin&#8217;s support of the separatists in Ukraine is a reminder that such a policy brings with it real downsides.

Read more: Putin?s Dangerous Proxy War - Michael Cohen - POLITICO Magazine
​

 

[Vikrant]

Here is the official position of the government of the US:

The United States is shocked by the downing of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, and we offer our deep condolences to all those who lost loved ones on board. We continue to seek information to determine whether there were any American citizens on board.

It is critical that there be a full, credible, and unimpeded international investigation as quickly as possible. We urge all concerned – Russia, the pro-Russian separatists, and Ukraine – to support an immediate cease-fire in order to ensure safe and unfettered access to the crash site for international investigators and in order to facilitate the recovery of remains. The role of international organizations – such as the United Nations and the OSCE in Ukraine – may be particularly relevant for this effort, and we will be in touch with affected nations and our partners in these organizations in the coming hours and days to determine the best path forward. In the meantime, it is vital that no evidence be tampered with in any way and that all potential evidence and remains at the crash site are undisturbed. The United States remains prepared to contribute immediate assistance to any international investigation, including through resources provided by the NTSB and the FBI.

While we do not yet have all the facts, we do know that this incident occurred in the context of a crisis in Ukraine that is fueled by Russian support for the separatists, including through arms, materiel, and training. This incident only highlights the urgency with which we continue to urge Russia to immediately take concrete steps to de-escalate the situation in Ukraine and to support a sustainable cease-fire and path toward peace that the Ukrainian government has consistently put forward.

Statement by the Press Secretary on Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 | The White House

 

[tinydancer]

Let's see. Liberal logic.

Obama's thugs in Kiev who executed a US/EU/NATO backed coup are "good rebels".

But the rebels in Eastern Ukraine that Putin supports are "thugs and terrorists".

Got it hypocrites.

 

[mamooth]

And Tiny runs interference for Putin.

So folks are so hate-addicted, they'll go way down into the gutter to get their daily hate-fix.

 

[B. Kidd]

Also, Ukraines Security Service has the air traffic control recordings with the jet. Why haven't they released those?

See JimH, truth IS the first casualty of war.......even proxy wars!

Ukraine's Security Service Has Confiscated Air Traffic Control Recordings With Malaysian Jet | Zero Hedge

Right and the Russian government has an elaborate on-line misinformation network. How is the weather in Moscow?

Don't know.
I just wish the White House would make up their mind whether or not they want a cease-fire in Ukraine, tho'.
Only two weeks ago, the WH supported the Ukraine Gov't in ending a cease fire ................and now, obviously, the WH wants one.
What a 'ship o' fools'!

White House Backs Ukraine Decision to End Cease-Fire - NASDAQ.com

 

[tinydancer]

Are you off your Meds again?

So it appears. The world is not reacting in a positive manner to this slaughter:

Jet downing a 'game-changer' in Russia's relationships - CNN.com

The Russian rebels control this area, are hindering investigation, and recovery of remains, PUTIN'S BOYS:

The crash site is massive -- an international observer called it "one of the biggest -- or the biggest -- crime scenes in the world right now."
Concern is growing that the site has not been sealed off as it should have been and that vital evidence is being tampered with. Meanwhile, armed rebels have greeted international observers with hostility.

I also heard that locals were stealing some of the Vitim's credit cards and using them, Those responsible need to be brought to justice. That includes those who supplied to weapons....Putin. He will be a pariah on the world stage from this point on. An accomplice to the murder of nearly 300 innocents, including 80 children.

Does this mean Obama and his Administration can be arrested and tried for murder of innocent Syrian civilians? America has been in cahoots with Saudia Arabia to overthrow Assad. You've been supplying them with weapons.

After all, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Advanced U.S. Weapons Flow to Syrian Rebels - WSJ

 

[tinydancer]

And Tiny runs interference for Putin.

So folks are so hate-addicted, they'll go way down into the gutter to get their daily hate-fix.

Fucking kiss my ass you hypocrite. I'm pointing out how bloody two faced you left wing whackos are.

When you start screaming about all the innocents that your Assassinator in Chief has killed in drone strikes I'll believe you really, really care about innocent civilians.

Otherwise have a nice day and fuck off.

 

[Darp]

That is not proof, creating a false audio is child's play. Maybe it is true. But events like this are so helpful in times of war, they can be ginned up. Hearst said as he created the Spanish American War, just print the headlines I give you and there will be war.

Remember the Maine. Most believe today it was an coal dust accident.

 

[mamooth]

Fucking kiss my ass you hypocrite. I'm pointing out how bloody two faced you left wing whackos are.

And here we thought you were just lovingly tonguing Putin's rectum because you needed a hate-fix.

And that's because you're a fundamentally nasty piece of work, willing to suck up to a butcher like Putin just to score political points. You're a walking demonstration of how ODS rots both the mind and the soul.

Oh, please keep acting like you've been acting, because we Democrats appreciate the votes you bring us.

 

[RoadVirus]

The word i'm hearing now is that the KGB-funded "separatists" are carting away evidence and not being very friendly to investigators.

Whatcha hidin'?

 

[Darp]

What evidence in terms of photos or video show a missile or a plane that is descending after a missile strike?

I have seen none, but this article indicates the videos show only a ground explosion. Was MH17 Shot Down? Why No Fireball Or Smoke Trail? Why No Missile Trail? | AUN-TV

It is strange, very strange. the videos and pics indicate a completely intact plane not on fire hitting the ground like the Bagram 747. How can the accounts of massive fireball and bodies raining out of the sky be true? below without the video is an exerpt of that article:

The below video shows at least 10 shoot downs via missiles and every missile left an exhaust trail and every hit created a fireball and black smoke. At 1:48 to 2:10 is a real combat shoot down of jet plane. This results in a huge fireball and the plane being blown into multiple large burning pieces, followed by black smoke, similar to what all witnesses saw happen to TWA800.

Real-JetShootDown

At 2:25 a large ground based missile similar to what we are being told was used on MH17 leaves a massive exhaust trail.

Forbes, normally a reliable source of news, said on 7-18 &#8220;The Malaysian Airliner Flight MH17 was brought down in eastern Ukraine. Local resident who witnessed the disaster described seeing a huge explosion and dead bodies falling from the sky. It appears the plane was &#8220;shot&#8221; by a surface to air missile.The Ukrainian government blames separatist fighters with circumstantial evidence.&#8221;

This is the standard report on the incidence, but lets examine the implications of it? A huge explosion and bodies falling from the sky is indeed what is likley in a large missile strike on an airliner. It would blow the fuselage apart into pieces, so the bodies escape the cabin and fall separately. It would also catch the thousands of gallons of fuel on fire (fuel capacity is 47,000 gallons).

But that completely contradicts the videos before and after the ground explosion. There is no detection of the plane or its parts in the air in the videos. There are no flames, no smoke trail. An intact, not on fire 777, plummeting in one piece to earth, matches the videos much better.