August 11 2011 Republican debate Thread

[JohnA]

Allowing Iran to develop nuclear weapons is not saying "we give up." That is were you are fundamentally wrong. Allowing Iran to develop such weapons is in the better interest of the United States than continually threatening them with sanctions and military force.

The end goal of foreign policy is peace. How is restricting trade with Iran and threatening to invade them going to create peace? How will it create anything but resentment and more hate?

I do not understand how anyone believes that allowing a damned lunatic that has made it plain as day that he intends to wipe Israel off the face of the earth to have a nuclear weapon will bring about peace?

Immie

I do not understand how anyone believes that making a damned lunatic even angrier will bring peace. I don't mean to be rude, but I think you dodged my question. Exactly how does preventing Iran from getting nuclear weapons create peace? Especially when we have thousands ourselves, and when we used them?

You have said you do not support sanctions or military action to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. You also concede that you cannot disagree with the point that the US has no right to tell other countries not to develop nuclear weapons when we have 5,000 ourselves. My final question, then, is how can you possibly say you disagree with Ron Paul and that you believe the US should stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons?

Good post
Ron Paul was passionate and he believes what he says and says what he believes
the only one up there tonight who did .

its not a matter of wether we *approve *of iran having nuclear weapons the question is have we the moral right to stop them <<by force >
> who set us up as the police of the world lets get our house in order first

only us

 

[Stashman]

August 11 2011 Republican debate Thread

I figured we might want a thread for the Republican Debate to night.

It starts at 9pm EST, I&#8217;ll bump it unless there are like 10 other threads already going.

Link to the debate: Fox News Live - Video - FoxNews.com

Discuss!

On the poll by Fox of who the public thought won the debate 47.83% said Ron Paul.
Michelle Bachman 13.48%
Mitt Romney 11.26%

Not even close. If you turn on Fox though you will see them either ignore Ron Paul in their coverage, or paint him to be some kind of nut. The people have spoken, and not giving Ron Paul his due is unAmerican to say the least.

Ron Paul will win the Iowa straw poll hands down. It is going to be interesting to see how the mainstream media spins it. A 2010 poll from Rasmussen shows that if an election for President happens right now, that 42% would vote Obama and 41% Ron Paul. This same poll showed the other GOP candidates were not even near these numbers.

It's time to get this country back to the Constitutional government of our founding fathers.

It's time for Ron Paul 2012

 

[JohnA]

Then I don't understand his position because that is damned near the message I got from him.

Immie

Why did North Korea develop a nuclear weapon?? Because they have had the greatest military the world has ever known at their southern border ready to invade them at a moments notice for the past 50 years. Thats why!!!

Why is Iran trying to develop a nuclear weapon?? Because the have the most powerful government in the world actively trying to influence their sovereignty for the last 40 years. That's why!!!

The point is these countries are developing nuclear weapons because of the policies of US!!!!!!

Do you honestly think that if we adopted Ron Paul's philosophy that suddenly Iran would quit attempting to build nuclear weapons or when they did finally achieve their goal that they would not be a threat to us?

Immie

Okay whats the alternative go in there and kick shit they are a small country we are mighty we win
so the next country that hates us for distroying iran starts to make a nuclear bomb so we go in and fuck with them

when does it end we are bullies ..


if you want to stop counties that are a danger to us form having nuclear bombs lets start with china ??
anyone in favor of that ?

 

[Missourian]

Todays drinking game words are : Reagan, Terrorism and socialism.

And if that doesn't give you alcohol poisoning add 911.

I'm taking the economy and jobs.

You must be literally snockered by now. The debate just ended. I wonder are you in a coma yet?

Immie

Blacked out...I'm going back and reading all the posts I missed.

 

[Missourian]

You guys advocating for Ron Pauls policies are just completely out of touch.

The genie is already out of the bottle. Mistakes have been made as well as good decisions. We can't erase all that by simply leaving people alone. Our soldiers are their excuses but their beliefs are their reason. We have to finish what we've begun for better or worse. We created some of the problems over there and walking away from them won't make them go away.

You break it you bought it.

Many of the problems go back to the days of European Imperialism.

"What's done is done and cannot be undone."

At this point, packing up and going home sends exactly the wrong message.

 

[The Infidel]

Paul supports nuclear weapons for Iran
if they want to develop a nuclear weapon, that is their right


The man is scary on foreign policy

Paul does not have a prayer

well he said we have no right to stop them ( do we )?
did we stop china no ,did we stop russia no pakistan no

bring troops home to protect OUR borders with mexica instread of somebody elses
he said mind our own business
very good points

Ron Paul is good fiscally, but he stinks on national defense... in that regard, he made an ass of himself as usual.
And as for the nuclear question:

Does China, Russia, and Pakistan threaten their neighbors wih nuclear war?

Iran does!!!! Fuck em!!!!

 

[Stashman]

Paul supports nuclear weapons for Iran
if they want to develop a nuclear weapon, that is their right


The man is scary on foreign policy

Paul does not have a prayer

well he said we have no right to stop them ( do we )?
did we stop china no ,did we stop russia no pakistan no

bring troops home to protect OUR borders with mexica instread of somebody elses
he said mind our own business
very good points

Ron Paul is good fiscally, but he stinks on national defense... in that regard, he made an ass of himself as usual.
And as for the nuclear question:

Does China, Russia, and Pakistan threaten their neighbors wih nuclear war?

Iran does!!!! Fuck em!!!!

So what if Iran threatens it's neighbors? What business is it of ours? I guess in your concept of things than it would be alright if another country interfered with us and declared they didn't think we had a right to a nuke, and made threats of invasion toward us.

If you haven't noticed we are fighting over the same issues in this country as we were 40 yrs. ago, and we can't seem to fix those. How do you think we can fix another country?

You seem to think that if the government or the media tells you something than it must be true. If so, than you are the very reason of the propaganda they use.

 

[The Infidel]

So what if Iran threatens it's neighbors? What business is it of ours? I guess in your concept of things than it would be alright if another country interfered with us and declared they didn't think we had a right to a nuke, and made threats of invasion toward us.

If you haven't noticed we are fighting over the same issues in this country as we were 40 yrs. ago, and we can't seem to fix those. How do you think we can fix another country?

You seem to think that if the government or the media tells you something than it must be true. If so, than you are the very reason of the propaganda they use.

I think for myself. I read, I listen, and I watch what is going on in the world. The last time I checked America and the others mentioned arent threatening anyone.

Iran is targeting Isreal, and if you cant see that for yourself then I can help you... I doubt I can anyway, and am not here to do that. Your opinion is yours, and thats that.
They are our only REAL ally in that region and we need to stand by them.

By the way, why do you think I get my info from the " government or the media"?

 

[ShackledNation]

So what if Iran threatens it's neighbors? What business is it of ours? I guess in your concept of things than it would be alright if another country interfered with us and declared they didn't think we had a right to a nuke, and made threats of invasion toward us.

If you haven't noticed we are fighting over the same issues in this country as we were 40 yrs. ago, and we can't seem to fix those. How do you think we can fix another country?

You seem to think that if the government or the media tells you something than it must be true. If so, than you are the very reason of the propaganda they use.

I think for myself. I read, I listen, and I watch what is going on in the world. The last time I checked America and the others mentioned arent threatening anyone.

Iran is targeting Isreal, and if you cant see that for yourself then I can help you... I doubt I can anyway, and am not here to do that. Your opinion is yours, and thats that.
They are our only REAL ally in that region and we need to stand by them.

By the way, why do you think I get my info from the " government or the media"?

And Israel is not the US, and Israel can protect itself. Netanyahu even told the US Congress to mind its own business. Israel doesn't want us bullying Iran for the sake of defending them! We only make matters worse.

How do you plan to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons? Sanctions and military action? Neither of those will bring peace, and will only further aggravate not just the government but the Iranian people. The middle east hates us because we invade their countries, bomb their people, and try to manage them ourselves in the name of democracy. Tell me: what the hell is democratic about that?

Not to mention when Iran had democratic elections in the 50s the CIA assassinated the elected leader in a military coup and replaced him with a US friendly dictator. And you wonder why they don't like us? We have nuclear weapons, China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons, and you think Iran will just decide that even though pretty much every other country around it has nuclear weapons it will be content not having them?

Preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons does not make us more safe. It only fuels resentment towards the US rather than the Iranian authoritarian government. Dictators retain power by uniting the people against a different common enemy. The US is that enemy. We are playing right into their hands.

 

[The Infidel]

So what if Iran threatens it's neighbors? What business is it of ours? I guess in your concept of things than it would be alright if another country interfered with us and declared they didn't think we had a right to a nuke, and made threats of invasion toward us.

If you haven't noticed we are fighting over the same issues in this country as we were 40 yrs. ago, and we can't seem to fix those. How do you think we can fix another country?

You seem to think that if the government or the media tells you something than it must be true. If so, than you are the very reason of the propaganda they use.

I think for myself. I read, I listen, and I watch what is going on in the world. The last time I checked America and the others mentioned arent threatening anyone.

Iran is targeting Isreal, and if you cant see that for yourself then I can help you... I doubt I can anyway, and am not here to do that. Your opinion is yours, and thats that.
They are our only REAL ally in that region and we need to stand by them.

By the way, why do you think I get my info from the " government or the media"?

And Israel is not the US, and Israel can protect itself. Netanyahu even told the US Congress to mind its own business. Israel doesn't want us bullying Iran for the sake of defending them! We only make matters worse.

How do you plan to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons? Sanctions and military action? Neither of those will bring peace, and will only further aggravate not just the government but the Iranian people. The middle east hates us because we invade their countries, bomb their people, and try to manage them ourselves in the name of democracy. Tell me: what the hell is democratic about that?

Not to mention when Iran had democratic elections in the 50s the CIA assassinated the elected leader in a military coup and replaced him with a US friendly dictator. And you wonder why they don't like us? We have nuclear weapons, China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons, and you think Iran will just decide that even though pretty much every other country around it has nuclear weapons it will be content not having them?

Preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons does not make us more safe. It only fuels resentment towards the US rather than the Iranian authoritarian government. Dictators retain power by uniting the people against a different common enemy. The US is that enemy. We are playing right into their hands.

So I guess the solution in your mind is let them have their bomb. Who cares right?

They are'nt going to hurt us....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO725Hbzfls&feature=related]Neville Chamberlain - Peace in our Time - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnA7w0de7c&feature=related]Adolf Hitler thanks Neville Chamberlain - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ShackledNation]

I think for myself. I read, I listen, and I watch what is going on in the world. The last time I checked America and the others mentioned arent threatening anyone.

Iran is targeting Isreal, and if you cant see that for yourself then I can help you... I doubt I can anyway, and am not here to do that. Your opinion is yours, and thats that.
They are our only REAL ally in that region and we need to stand by them.

By the way, why do you think I get my info from the " government or the media"?

And Israel is not the US, and Israel can protect itself. Netanyahu even told the US Congress to mind its own business. Israel doesn't want us bullying Iran for the sake of defending them! We only make matters worse.

How do you plan to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons? Sanctions and military action? Neither of those will bring peace, and will only further aggravate not just the government but the Iranian people. The middle east hates us because we invade their countries, bomb their people, and try to manage them ourselves in the name of democracy. Tell me: what the hell is democratic about that?

Not to mention when Iran had democratic elections in the 50s the CIA assassinated the elected leader in a military coup and replaced him with a US friendly dictator. And you wonder why they don't like us? We have nuclear weapons, China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons, and you think Iran will just decide that even though pretty much every other country around it has nuclear weapons it will be content not having them?

Preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons does not make us more safe. It only fuels resentment towards the US rather than the Iranian authoritarian government. Dictators retain power by uniting the people against a different common enemy. The US is that enemy. We are playing right into their hands.

So I guess the solution in your mind is let them have their bomb. Who cares right?

They are'nt going to hurt us....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO725Hbzfls&feature=related]Neville Chamberlain - Peace in our Time - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnA7w0de7c&feature=related]Adolf Hitler thanks Neville Chamberlain - YouTube[/ame]

You do realize that Hitler came to power because of the Treaty of Versailles forced upon Germany by the UN, do you not? One of Hitlers major campaign promises was ending the Treaty of Versailles. One of the demands of the Treaty was that Germany did not raise an army, equivalent to preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. This bred hatred and radicalism of the current world order, and was one of the major cause of the rise of the Nazi party and Hitler's coming to power.

World War two is an excellent example of how interventionism leads to unintended consequences. It is ironic that you try to use it to prove the opposite point.

 

[The Infidel]

You do realize that Hitler came to power because of the Treaty of Versailles forced upon Germany by the UN, do you not? One of Hitlers major campaign promises was ending the Treaty of Versailles. One of the demands of the Treaty was that Germany did not raise an army, equivalent to preventing Iran from developing a nuclear weapon. This bred hatred and radicalism of the current world order, and was one of the major cause of the rise of the Nazi party and Hitler's coming to power.

World War two is an excellent example of how interventionism leads to unintended consequences. It is ironic that you try to use it to prove the opposite point.

I know plenty about how and why Hitler came to power.

I also know we cant trust the modern day equivalent to him in Iran.

Iran has a military, and they have no business with a nuke.

PERIOD!

 

[MeBelle]

So, two Mormons, a black guy, one 'youngish' white guy, a crazy lady, one old guy, a RINO and a Newt walk into a bar......

 

[rdean]

Rank the candidates best to worst on their performance.

It was a "tie".

 

[rightwinger]

Damn...it is strange

But I hope Sarah palin runs. At least she would be interesting. This is the dullest bunch of candidates I have ever seen. Only Newt has any charisma. If this is the best we have to listen to over the next year, this is going to be one dull message board

 

[masquerade]

Eh, I wasn't all that impressed with the lot of them. No one really 'stood out' with maybe the exception of Newt.

Pawlenty ... Santorum ... Huntsman ... y'all need to pack it up and move on.

 

[rightwinger]

Paul supports nuclear weapons for Iran
if they want to develop a nuclear weapon, that is their right


The man is scary on foreign policy

Paul does not have a prayer

well he said we have no right to stop them ( do we )?
did we stop china no ,did we stop russia no pakistan no

bring troops home to protect OUR borders with mexica instread of somebody elses
he said mind our own business
very good points

What he said was we have no right to boycott or do anything to try to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons. Will we be successful? Maybe, maybe not

Doesn't mean we shouldn't use ever carrot and stick that we have

Ron Paul is embarassing when he talks foreign policy. His Libertarian ideals do not work anywhere in the world and we sure as hell aren't going to try them here

 

[Stashman]

I think for myself. I read, I listen, and I watch what is going on in the world. The last time I checked America and the others mentioned arent threatening anyone.

Iran is targeting Isreal, and if you cant see that for yourself then I can help you... I doubt I can anyway, and am not here to do that. Your opinion is yours, and thats that.
They are our only REAL ally in that region and we need to stand by them.

By the way, why do you think I get my info from the " government or the media"?

And Israel is not the US, and Israel can protect itself. Netanyahu even told the US Congress to mind its own business. Israel doesn't want us bullying Iran for the sake of defending them! We only make matters worse.

How do you plan to stop Iran from getting nuclear weapons? Sanctions and military action? Neither of those will bring peace, and will only further aggravate not just the government but the Iranian people. The middle east hates us because we invade their countries, bomb their people, and try to manage them ourselves in the name of democracy. Tell me: what the hell is democratic about that?

Not to mention when Iran had democratic elections in the 50s the CIA assassinated the elected leader in a military coup and replaced him with a US friendly dictator. And you wonder why they don't like us? We have nuclear weapons, China has nuclear weapons, Russia has nuclear weapons, and you think Iran will just decide that even though pretty much every other country around it has nuclear weapons it will be content not having them?

Preventing Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons does not make us more safe. It only fuels resentment towards the US rather than the Iranian authoritarian government. Dictators retain power by uniting the people against a different common enemy. The US is that enemy. We are playing right into their hands.

So I guess the solution in your mind is let them have their bomb. Who cares right?

They are'nt going to hurt us....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO725Hbzfls&feature=related]Neville Chamberlain - Peace in our Time - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdnA7w0de7c&feature=related]Adolf Hitler thanks Neville Chamberlain - YouTube[/ame]

Interesting that you bring up Hitler. What was Hitler up to? World conquest, just like the United States and you see what became of him. We have troops in 130 nations and maintain 700 bases worldwide. Why? World conquest.

When a nation is facing financial disaster and it's elected officials puts its plan for conquest ahead of the well being of it's citizens than you have a rogue government and it's time to replace it. It's that simple.

 

[Immanuel]

Why did North Korea develop a nuclear weapon?? Because they have had the greatest military the world has ever known at their southern border ready to invade them at a moments notice for the past 50 years. Thats why!!!

Why is Iran trying to develop a nuclear weapon?? Because the have the most powerful government in the world actively trying to influence their sovereignty for the last 40 years. That's why!!!

The point is these countries are developing nuclear weapons because of the policies of US!!!!!!

Do you honestly think that if we adopted Ron Paul's philosophy that suddenly Iran would quit attempting to build nuclear weapons or when they did finally achieve their goal that they would not be a threat to us?

Immie

Okay whats the alternative go in there and kick shit they are a small country we are mighty we win
so the next country that hates us for distroying iran starts to make a nuclear bomb so we go in and fuck with them

when does it end we are bullies ..


if you want to stop counties that are a danger to us form having nuclear bombs lets start with china ??
anyone in favor of that ?

I am not going to ignore your posts and you probably read further into the thread.

If you did, I think you will see what transpired in the thread, thus leaving nothing further for me to say since I think I answered your questions especially because I too have said "what gives us the right..."

Immie

 

[Stashman]

SO far the top candidates in faux news opinion:

#1 Cain - They are even using Mitttens combined with canned crowd recordings.
(Use an audio analyzer, it is very obvious)


#2 Romney - Gets the most questions - by far


Pawlenty and Bachman reduced to only questions designed to make them seem like they are bickering.

Everyone else just fills time.

Dr. Paul gets the least questions and the least time to respond.

Hmmm.....
Faux will be faux.

This is off of Fox news after the debate last night.

FoxNews.com LIVE You Decide
Who was your favorite in the Iowa debate?
Ron Paul 47.72%

Newt Gingrich 12.77%

Michele Bachmann 12.01%

Mitt Romney 10.38%

Herman Cain 8.12%

Tim Pawlenty 4.76%

Rick Santorum 2.39%

Jon Huntsman 1.86%

Funny how they ignore their own polls. Watch Fox right now and they will not even mention Paul. The people have spoken, and when a government continues to ignore the mass opinion it becomes a dictatorship. Wake up American your Constitution is at stake!