Baker Who Won’t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

[Rikurzhen]

Public accommodations have no such right. If they hit the door with cash, the phrase is "Welcome customer"...

Administrative law doesn't trump human rights. If there is a conflict, law has to give way to human rights.

There is no human rights violation in requiring that businesses be run like businesses, not private clubs or churches.

Every human has the right to free association. Administrative law doesn't trump human rights.

 

[Ibentoken]

Where did he say that?

Matthew 19.

Jesus referenced what was marriage at the time, in relation to divorce. His position on gay marriage, like most other issues, is entirely unknown.

But hey, his position that is known, on divorce, certainly doesn't seem to stop anybody in modern America. Just as with most of what he said, it's ignored.

There was no such thing as gay marriage. Marriage has always been defined as a woman and man until recently. Homosexuality was condemned.

 

[kaz]

Matthew 19.

Jesus referenced what was marriage at the time, in relation to divorce. His position on gay marriage, like most other issues, is entirely unknown.

But hey, his position that is known, on divorce, certainly doesn't seem to stop anybody in modern America. Just as with most of what he said, it's ignored.

There was no such thing as gay marriage. Marriage has always been defined as a woman and man until recently. Homosexuality was condemned.

There was never such a thing as gay marriage until contemporary times, I agree. That wasn't the question. The question was regarding the statement that Jesus said marriage was only between a man and a woman. Matthew 19 does quote Jesus talking about marriage between men and women, but it does not say he would not recognize gay marriage. It does not say nothing else is marriage. That was the statement that I questioned. In general, Jesus's statements were inclusive, not exclusive, and he did not put up barriers between people and belief, he tore them down. Why would he condemn people not harming anyone? I don't see him doing that.

I draw a clear distinction between "marriage" and "government marriage." Jesus did not talk about government being involved in marriage at all, yet today somehow government gets to define it. I don't recognize government's right to do that. I don't see the point of government being involved in any marriage.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Administrative law doesn't trump human rights. If there is a conflict, law has to give way to human rights.

There is no human rights violation in requiring that businesses be run like businesses, not private clubs or churches.

Every human has the right to free association. Administrative law doesn't trump human rights.

It does when you own a business. At that point you follow our faith, not your own...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Matthew 19.

Jesus referenced what was marriage at the time, in relation to divorce. His position on gay marriage, like most other issues, is entirely unknown.

But hey, his position that is known, on divorce, certainly doesn't seem to stop anybody in modern America. Just as with most of what he said, it's ignored.

There was no such thing as gay marriage. Marriage has always been defined as a woman and man until recently. Homosexuality was condemned.

Your simplistic "opinion" on history is incorrect, which is no surprise at all, but it doesn't matter a damn since equality requires something different either way.

 

[Rikurzhen]

There is no human rights violation in requiring that businesses be run like businesses, not private clubs or churches.

Every human has the right to free association. Administrative law doesn't trump human rights.

It does when you own a business. At that point you follow our faith, not your own...

The right of free association is not the right to free exercise of religion.

Look, I get it, you feel the need to defend your totalitarianism and you'll even use misdirection and strawmen to do it, but only a brainless liberal would buy into what you're pushing.

Human rights are not trumped by appealing to administrative laws which address commerce. Isn't one of the key defining characteristics of being a liberal the constant complaint about putting the almighty dollar ahead of the interests of people? So live true to your principles. Put HUMAN RIGHTS about the interests of commercial administrative law.

People have the right to CHOOSE their own associations, business law and business profit, be damned.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Every human has the right to free association. Administrative law doesn't trump human rights.

It does when you own a business. At that point you follow our faith, not your own...

The right of free association is not the right to free exercise of religion.

Look, I get it, you feel the need to defend your totalitarianism and you'll even use misdirection and strawmen to do it, but only a brainless liberal would buy into what you're pushing.

Human rights are not trumped by appealing to administrative laws which address commerce. Isn't one of the key defining characteristics of being a liberal the constant complaint about putting the almighty dollar ahead of the interests of people? So live true to your principles. Put HUMAN RIGHTS about the interests of commercial administrative law.

People have the right to CHOOSE their own associations, business law and business profit, be damned.

What you believe is incorrect. I don't care whether you hate the ******* or not, whether you feel it's your faith to hate them or not, if they pull up for gas and coffee, and have money, then that is what they get, your "faith" matters not a damn. You're a gas station, not a church or a club.

Pumping gas or baking cakes is not serving God. It's a business and they follow our rules, not yours.

 

[Pete7469]

So because I walk down a sidewalk, The government can tell me how to think, how to live my life, and who I have to interact with?

Your definition of a public business is so vague and all encompassing that it covers everything. So basically the retort of progressives is "fuck you, think like we do"

Cute.

No, in your home, do as you please, run a public business, follow the law(.)

The law is idiotic. The law strips people of freedom all for a service that can be gotten elsewhere, from someone else, with no true damage to the party denied the service.

Its nothing but soft fascism, pure and simple.

I would call it flaccid fascism in this case.

 

[Pete7469]

Couldn't them darkies just keep quit and eat in the back room instead of demanding to sit up at the counter, or just go somewhere else to eat?

Course they could have.......

Blacks are born that way, homosexuals are not!

Can you support that with any scientific data or empirical evidence?

You're born with a certain pigment...

You're born with an instinct to suck a nipple.

Not a dick....

Well at least I wasn't.

 

[Pete7469]

Piss on 'em, literally. Piss on their cake, their judge, and the queers.

These deviants might like that too.

The next thing you know we might have to piss on them for their own gratification.

That's how sick the left is getting.

 

[Pete7469]

I believe he has a strong chance of getting that order overturned. No one should be forced to choose between his faith and his livelihood. Had he known that he would be forced to choose between the two, he would not have opened up the shop in 1993. It's not fair after 20 years in business to ask him now to renounce his faith.

Renounce his faith? He was asked to bake a cake(.)

I believe that the baker could have handled it in a way that would have kept this out of the courts.

Why not say something like:

"Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. I'm flattered that you ask me to bake your cake. I'm sorry, but my religious beliefs would prevent me from giving it my very best effort. Don't you think you'd be happier with a baker who could be a wholehearted partner with you on your special day?"

I can't help but think being honest, respectful, and polite rarely gets you into trouble.

I would have told them;

"Oh I'm sorry, I just came down with EBOLA, I can't make anyone a cake, please take refuge as far away from this location as possible"..

 

[Rikurzhen]

It does when you own a business. At that point you follow our faith, not your own...

The right of free association is not the right to free exercise of religion.

Look, I get it, you feel the need to defend your totalitarianism and you'll even use misdirection and strawmen to do it, but only a brainless liberal would buy into what you're pushing.

Human rights are not trumped by appealing to administrative laws which address commerce. Isn't one of the key defining characteristics of being a liberal the constant complaint about putting the almighty dollar ahead of the interests of people? So live true to your principles. Put HUMAN RIGHTS about the interests of commercial administrative law.

People have the right to CHOOSE their own associations, business law and business profit, be damned.

What you believe is incorrect. I don't care whether you hate the ******* or not, whether you feel it's your faith to hate them or not, if they pull up for gas and coffee, and have money, then that is what they get, your "faith" matters not a damn. You're a gas station, not a church or a club.

Pumping gas or baking cakes is not serving God. It's a business and they follow our rules, not yours.

I'll have to remember your position in the future. Liberal values put commerce above that of human rights. OK, I'm now recalibrating what I know of liberals. Money before human rights. OK, gotcha. Thanks.

I should point to your declarations when I run into wayward liberals who are bemoaning some instance of money being put before human rights and remind them that they're complaining about the very principle that they favor.

 

[MaxGrit]

Is the Baker a slave now since he forced to work under duress?

 

[Listening]

I wish I could buy some cakes from this business..

I like their style.

Baker Who Won?t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

The commission’s order requires Phillips to design wedding cakes for same-sex ceremonies in violation of his beliefs, institute re-education classes for his staff on the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act and send quarterly “compliance” reports to the commission for two years.

::::::::::

This is the issue at the heart of the appeal: Phillips claims the government should not be forcing business owners to betray their consciences and convey what they do not believe. Even more importantly, he says, the government should not be in the business of “rehabilitating” consciences or “re-educating” its citizens to change their moral beliefs about the definition of marriage.

Reeducation ?

I'd tell the judge to go fuck himself.

 

[Pete7469]

Blacks are born that way, homosexuals are not!

Can you support that with any scientific data or empirical evidence?

Can you support that homosexuals are born that way? Has any scientist found the gay gene yet? Know why, there isn't one. It's a choice that people make.

Homosexuals are immoral people committing disgusting acts, who try to make people with morals accept that as morality.

Ya know...

I can accept the idea that some people are drawn to such deviance for whatever reason. Regardless of what you call it. Genes, trauma, or just a choice. It doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that these people consist of such an infinitesimal fraction of the population that we shouldn't even be having this discussion.

Now when queers were getting the shit beat out of them, which was also a largely insignificant event, it was wrong.

The bed wetter agenda to glorify being a faggot or dyke lacks any moral credibility. These people should not be persecuted, nor should they be exalted. Their deviance does nothing positive for society or advancing human progress. The arguments that it actually stunts human progress are the only compelling ones being made, but it should be no excuse to hate these people.

The one thing that strikes me about the gay individual is that his/her sexuality is what defines them. As if nothing else in their life matters, the focal point is their junk and the brief gratification they get from a climax.


You almost have to pity them...

But then they keep stuffing this shit in our faces just to piss us off.

 

[FA_Q2]

Baker Who Won’t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

I believe he has a strong chance of getting that order overturned. No one should be forced to choose between his faith and his livelihood. Had he known that he would be forced to choose between the two, he would not have opened up the shop in 1993. It's not fair after 20 years in business to ask him now to renounce his faith.

It's not fair to have gay people being denied a service open to everyone else just because they are gay. That's a greater travesty.

Btw, Southerners believed 50 years ago that it was against their religion to desegregate. So this religion excuse is nonsense. If he serves the general public, he must serve every group in the public.

Here is the thing; it is not a ‘grater travesty.’ Sorry but this bears no resemblance to the civil rights movement at all either. None whatsoever.

This is not a case of widespread bigotry suppressing the rights of millions all over the nation. That is why the government had to get involved with preivious racism. The institution of slavery left all kinds of bigots that wanted to ensure that blacks were recognized as a lower form of life.

This is a case of an EXTREME minority of bakers and photographers that do not want to associate with gay marriages. Those gays are not impacted at all. The proper way to address a problem of this scale is NOT to take away the rights of association for 300 million people but to simply protest and boycott the dozen establishments that do not want to put two grooms on top of a tiered cake out of business.

I might agree with these asinine laws should gays actually be denied basic civil rights but the reality is that none of that is happening. Gays trying to force themselves on people has only served to accomplish one thing – it is getting people tired of hearing their shit and worthless complaints that someone would not bake them a damn cake. The rest of us are dealing with REAL problems.

 

[FA_Q2]

I believe he has a strong chance of getting that order overturned. No one should be forced to choose between his faith and his livelihood. Had he known that he would be forced to choose between the two, he would not have opened up the shop in 1993. It's not fair after 20 years in business to ask him now to renounce his faith.

It's not fair to have gay people being denied a service open to everyone else just because they are gay. That's a greater travesty.

Btw, Southerners believed 50 years ago that it was against their religion to desegregate. So this religion excuse is nonsense. If he serves the general public, he must serve every group in the public.

There is no reference to racism being good in the bible. there are plenty of references to homosexuality being bad.

Irrelevant. What you base your faith on is NOT a question for government but a personal question. Because you see racism as against Christian beliefs is utterly meaningless as another might completely disagree. Another’s faith is not for you to discern.

That is one of the reasons that make this a faith argument a rather bad line of logic to follow. Unless you want the government arbitrarily defining faith, you are going to have to accept whatever asinine ‘faith’ that someone comes up with and the dogma that they choose to attach to it. There as many versions of faith out there as there are people who believe.

Instead, this really is an issue of freedom of association. There is no ambiguity there and certainly no need for the government to go digging into what is and is not your faith.

 

[Rikurzhen]

it is getting people tired of hearing their shit and worthless complaints that someone would not bake them a damn cake. The rest of us are dealing with REAL problems.

Over the span of the last 15 years or so I've migrated from being a supporter to an opponent of homosexuals. Totalitarianism just rubs me the wrong way and I won't lend my support to it.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Mandatory re education. God I can't believe what we've come to !

Jesus fucking Christ I hate liberals !!

 

[Rikurzhen]

Mandatory re education. God I can't believe what we've come to !

Jesus fucking Christ I hate liberals !!

I hear you brother. Totalitarians suck.