Baker Who Won’t Make Cakes for Same-Sex Weddings Appeals Mandatory Re-Education Order

[Ibentoken]

All the Christian business bakers have to do is get an exemption from the government for religious reasons.

 

[BlindBoo]

Depends on who he does it to.

Federal public accommodation laws are applicable in all States.

>>>>

Federal public accommodation laws do not cover sexual orientation. Some states do.

I know, I was clarifying your statement that implied there were no Public Accommodation protections in Texas, that any private business can refuse service for any reason. They can't. They can't refuse an Asian because they are Asian, a Mexican because they are from Mexico, a Jew because they are Jewish, etc.

They can refuse gays because they are gay because there is no State law that says they can and the federal law doesn't include gays.


>>>>

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[bendog]

Discrimination against ugly people is still discrimination. The question is whether discrimination by a private citizen against another private citizen, without threat of violence, should be illegal.

I think it should be, but my position is a minority

For any reason? Really?

For what other reason is there, besides orientation and race? A KFC allegedly refused to serve a little girl down here who'd had some pit bulls bite her face. The public response was deafening. KFC hired investigators and gave the little girl 30K for medical care. Turned out, the KFC employees didn't do anything, and it was most likely a scam by the kid's worthless mother, who left her in a trailer with grandpas pack of pitbulls.

I don't think racial discrimination would got without severe public condemnation down here.

There are a lot of bakers down here, though. (-:

 

[Seawytch]

Their reasons had no basis in scripture. His reasons do.

Wrong. The segregationists and anti miscegenationists had a basis in scripture too. Why does the anti gay scripture trump the racist scripture?

Show me the racist scripture in the bible.

Do you believe they didn't have verses to support their view?

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:26 - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab: (Read More...)

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (Read More...)

Ezra 9:12 - Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Read More...)

Jeremiah 2:21 - Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

Ezra 10:2 - And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, [one] of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

Ezra 6:21 - And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ephesians 2:11-16 - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

These were the passages used by racists to justify their bigotry. Why does anti gay bigotry trump racist bigotry?

 

[Seawytch]

Nope, what I am pointing out is reasoning based on scripture in the case of the baker and the photographer, as opposed to Seawytch's reasoning on denying services to Christians, which would be based on spite.



If public accommodation laws were removed, the reasoning wouldn't be a matter of law, but I'm sure it would be a reason to patronize/not patronize a business.



As an example, would I patronize a shop that does not provide cakes for gay weddings due to religious convictions? Yes. Would I patronize a shop that does not provide cakes for gay weddings due to "I HATZ THE QUEERSZ THEY SHOULD DIE DIE DIE"? Most definitely not.

What difference does the reasoning behind the desire to select or reject customers being based on scripture have to do with it then?



The reason doesn't matter. Seawytch is making you look hypocritical by stating (and I paraphrase) because "his reasons are valid" and "yours are not".





>>>>

Its not about validity in the law, its about his reason being sincere, and Seawytch's reason being that she's an asshole.



Once PA laws are struck down, it's up to the individual to decide if a person's reasons are valid and appropriate, and then up to the individual to patronize said person's business.

I'm following my deeply held belief that Christians are unbelievers. How is that different than the anti gay "Christians"?

 

[Seawytch]

What difference does the reasoning behind the desire to select or reject customers being based on scripture have to do with it then?

The reason doesn't matter. Seawytch is making you look hypocritical by stating (and I paraphrase) because "his reasons are valid" and "yours are not".


>>>>

Its not about validity in the law, its about his reason being sincere, and Seawytch's reason being that she's an asshole.

Once PA laws are struck down, it's up to the individual to decide if a person's reasons are valid and appropriate, and then up to the individual to patronize said person's business.

So you don't think that Seawytch should have the ability to serve or not serve Christians who wish to discriminate against her? Why is she not able to exercise the same standard? Customer walks in and can buy any pre-made item in the case, but if they want custom work shouldn't she be able to reject a customer if her sincerely held belief is that she shouldn't have to serve someone if they disapprove of her Civil Marriage?



>>>>

Because gays are icky...DUH!!!

 

[dblack]

Discrimination against ugly people is still discrimination. The question is whether discrimination by a private citizen against another private citizen, without threat of violence, should be illegal.

I think it should be, but my position is a minority

For any reason? Really?

For what other reason is there, besides orientation and race. A KFC allegedly refused to serve a little girl down here who'd had some pit bulls bite her face. The public response was deafening. KFC hired investigators and gave the little girl 30K for medical care. Turned out, the KFC employees didn't do anything, and it was most likely a scam by the kid's worthless mother, who left her in a trailer with grandpas pack of pitbulls.

I don't think racial discrimination would got without severe public condemnation down here.

There are a lot of bakers down here, though. (-:

I'm not sure what you're saying. In your post above did you mean to say that private discrimination without the threat of violence should be illegal, or did you mean legal?

 

[Ibentoken]

Wrong. The segregationists and anti miscegenationists had a basis in scripture too. Why does the anti gay scripture trump the racist scripture?

Show me the racist scripture in the bible.

Do you believe they didn't have verses to support their view?

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:26 - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab: (Read More...)

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (Read More...)

Ezra 9:12 - Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Read More...)

Jeremiah 2:21 - Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

Ezra 10:2 - And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, [one] of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

Ezra 6:21 - And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ephesians 2:11-16 - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

These were the passages used by racists to justify their bigotry. Why does anti gay bigotry trump racist bigotry?

The scripture in the new testament is specific. God condemns homosexuality in the old and the new. Ignorant racists who twist scripture for their own selfish reasons are exactly the same as you. You're twisting scripture for your own selfish reasons. The abolitionist Christian church had no problem with the scriptures, did they.

 

[Seawytch]

He also said he would not design Halloween cakes. When is a witch going to sue him?

He wasn't asked to make something he doesn't carry. How do you still have so little understanding? He sold wedding cakes and that is what was ordered.

 

[bendog]

I generally posted private discrimination should not be illegal. I cannot see any real possibility of what that discrimination could be based upon, besides orientation, that would not be met with overwhelming public condemnation.

I also don't buy any moral linkage to discrimination against blacks and against the GLBT. The immorality of racial discrimination was undeniable and could not have any valid underpinnings. JFK and Dirksen both saw that, and it overcame their own misgivings about the govt acting on private actions. I think the Christian bakers are hypocrites who hide their spite behind holier than thou smugness, and they need to have it wiped off their faces. But with a law? Not, imo. In 1960, peaceful protest against private discrimination was not allowed. That's not the case today.

But that's jmo. I'm not going to say those people who think public accommodation laws don't have reasonable views.

 

[Seawytch]

Show me the racist scripture in the bible.

Do you believe they didn't have verses to support their view?

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:26 - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab: (Read More...)

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (Read More...)

Ezra 9:12 - Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Read More...)

Jeremiah 2:21 - Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

Ezra 10:2 - And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, [one] of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

Ezra 6:21 - And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ephesians 2:11-16 - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

These were the passages used by racists to justify their bigotry. Why does anti gay bigotry trump racist bigotry?

The scripture in the new testament is specific. God condemns homosexuality in the old and the new. Ignorant racists who twist scripture for their own selfish reasons are exactly the same as you. You're twisting scripture for your own selfish reasons. The abolitionist Christian church had no problem with the scriptures, did they.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter what YOU believe. I don't believe the bible is anti gay, YOU do. You don't believe the bible is racist. Some did and still do.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/kentucky-church-bans-interracial-couples/story?id=15065204

 

[bendog]

Do you believe they didn't have verses to support their view?

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:26 - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab: (Read More...)

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (Read More...)

Ezra 9:12 - Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Read More...)

Jeremiah 2:21 - Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

Ezra 10:2 - And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, [one] of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

Ezra 6:21 - And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ephesians 2:11-16 - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

These were the passages used by racists to justify their bigotry. Why does anti gay bigotry trump racist bigotry?

The scripture in the new testament is specific. God condemns homosexuality in the old and the new. Ignorant racists who twist scripture for their own selfish reasons are exactly the same as you. You're twisting scripture for your own selfish reasons. The abolitionist Christian church had no problem with the scriptures, did they.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter what YOU believe. I don't believe the bible is anti gay, YOU do. You don't believe the bible is racist. Some did and still do.

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples - ABC News

He's incapable of learning

?Christianity and the Abolitionist Movement? - Thinking Christian

 

[Seawytch]

I generally posted private discrimination should not be illegal. I cannot see any real possibility of what that discrimination could be based upon, besides orientation, that would not be met with overwhelming public condemnation.



I also don't buy any moral linkage to discrimination against blacks and against the GLBT. The immorality of racial discrimination was undeniable and could not have any valid underpinnings. JFK and Dirksen both saw that, and it overcame their own misgivings about the govt acting on private actions. I think the Christian bakers are hypocrites who hide their spite behind holier than thou smugness, and they need to have it wiped off their faces. But with a law? Not, imo. In 1960, peaceful protest against private discrimination was not allowed. That's not the case today.



But that's jmo. I'm not going to say those people who think public accommodation laws don't have reasonable views.

How about, we can get rid of PA laws when Yahoos stop burning Mosques in Tennessee.

Gays can just grow their own food.

http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2013...rimination-they-can-just-grow-their-own-food/

 

[bendog]

I generally posted private discrimination should not be illegal. I cannot see any real possibility of what that discrimination could be based upon, besides orientation, that would not be met with overwhelming public condemnation.



I also don't buy any moral linkage to discrimination against blacks and against the GLBT. The immorality of racial discrimination was undeniable and could not have any valid underpinnings. JFK and Dirksen both saw that, and it overcame their own misgivings about the govt acting on private actions. I think the Christian bakers are hypocrites who hide their spite behind holier than thou smugness, and they need to have it wiped off their faces. But with a law? Not, imo. In 1960, peaceful protest against private discrimination was not allowed. That's not the case today.



But that's jmo. I'm not going to say those people who think public accommodation laws don't have reasonable views.

How about, we can get rid of PA laws when Yahoos stop burning Mosques in Tennessee.

Gays can just grow their own food.

Washington Lawmaker?s Office: If Gay People Face Discrimination, They ?Can Just Grow Their Own Food?

I do think violence should be illegal. However, it's basically just that I think GLBT folks will win via the free exercise of the first amendment, even in the South ... eventually. That was not the case with blacks in the South in 1960. jmo.

 

[Ibentoken]

He also said he would not design Halloween cakes. When is a witch going to sue him?

He wasn't asked to make something he doesn't carry. How do you still have so little understanding? He sold wedding cakes and that is what was ordered.

Wrong. A cake was ordered for a queer wedding. Why don't you guys go to a muslim baker and try it. Should be interesting.

 

[Ibentoken]

Do you believe they didn't have verses to support their view?

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:26 - And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

Nehemiah 13:23-30 - In those days also saw I Jews [that] had married wives of Ashdod, of Ammon, [and] of Moab: (Read More...)

Leviticus 19:19 - Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 - Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (Read More...)

Ezra 9:12 - Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave [it] for an inheritance to your children for ever.

Genesis 1:26-27 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (Read More...)

Jeremiah 2:21 - Yet I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed: how then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?

Ezra 10:2 - And Shechaniah the son of Jehiel, [one] of the sons of Elam, answered and said unto Ezra, We have trespassed against our God, and have taken strange wives of the people of the land: yet now there is hope in Israel concerning this thing.

Ezra 6:21 - And the children of Israel, which were come again out of captivity, and all such as had separated themselves unto them from the filthiness of the heathen of the land, to seek the LORD God of Israel, did eat,

Ephesians 2:11-16 - Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (Read More...)

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

These were the passages used by racists to justify their bigotry. Why does anti gay bigotry trump racist bigotry?

The scripture in the new testament is specific. God condemns homosexuality in the old and the new. Ignorant racists who twist scripture for their own selfish reasons are exactly the same as you. You're twisting scripture for your own selfish reasons. The abolitionist Christian church had no problem with the scriptures, did they.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter what YOU believe. I don't believe the bible is anti gay, YOU do. You don't believe the bible is racist. Some did and still do.

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples - ABC News

No, you don't get it. I read scripture, period. You're the same as the racists who twisted scripture to support their beliefs. I believe scripture, period.

 

[nodoginnafight]

The scripture in the new testament is specific. God condemns homosexuality in the old and the new. Ignorant racists who twist scripture for their own selfish reasons are exactly the same as you. You're twisting scripture for your own selfish reasons. The abolitionist Christian church had no problem with the scriptures, did they.

Don't you get it? It doesn't matter what YOU believe. I don't believe the bible is anti gay, YOU do. You don't believe the bible is racist. Some did and still do.

Kentucky Church Bans Interracial Couples - ABC News

No, you don't get it. I read scripture, period. You're the same as the racists who twisted scripture to support their beliefs. I believe scripture, period.

So we have a racist dope smoker to tell us what Jesus was all about, huh?

 

[Seawytch]

The law overreaches into the business owner's constitutional right. It should be challenged if it hasn't already.

Pubic Accommodation laws have been challenged and upheld at both the Federal and State court levels.





>>>>

And Justice Kennedy assured us that the recent Hobby Lobby ruling would not open the door to legalized discrimination against gays.

 

[Seawytch]

He also said he would not design Halloween cakes. When is a witch going to sue him?

He wasn't asked to make something he doesn't carry. How do you still have so little understanding? He sold wedding cakes and that is what was ordered.

Wrong. A cake was ordered for a queer wedding. Why don't you guys go to a muslim baker and try it. Should be interesting.

If the Muslim baker carried wedding cakes and they live in a locality that protects gays in Public Accommodation, a gay couple could sue if the cake was not baked.

A wedding cake was ordered. They made wedding cakes. Now they don't make wedding cakes. End of story.

 

[Againsheila]

Couldn't queers just get their cakes somewhere else without the fascist charade....

Course they could

Couldn't them darkies just keep quit and eat in the back room instead of demanding to sit up at the counter, or just go somewhere else to eat?

Course they could have.......

I think there is a BIG difference between being black and being gay. For one thing, how do you know someone is gay if they don't tell you?