Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[JustTheFacts]

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently, and also in the ages that we are seeing involved in these events that of being younger and younger as we go.

It would seem that way, wouldn't it? But that isn't the case.

{ And yet those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.

"There is no pattern, there is no increase," says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston's Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.

The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.

Society moves on, he says, because of our ability to distance ourselves from the horror of the day, and because people believe that these tragedies are "one of the unfortunate prices we pay for our freedoms."}

Mass shootings are not growing in frequency, experts say - NY Daily News

I mean look at the single kid on kid murders that have been taking place in the past 25 years alone, and then these school shootings by these young men, and the rape that has become more prevalent now in America.

Real rape is at an all time low. "Date rape" is impossible to quantify since it only became recognized in the last couple of decades

{The U.S. Justice Department's National Crime Victimization Survey (considered our best measure of crime because its anonymous surveys capture offenses not reported to police) reports that rape has been falling dramatically for decades}

The decline of rape - Los Angeles Times

The chances of a woman being attacked and raped are the lowest in human history. A woman still might get drunk and wake up deciding the guy she fucked is ugly (date rape) though.

It seems that a volatile cocktail gets mixed into these young people heads, and all depending on the young person or young adult's character, we get what we get as a result of this cocktail and/or mixture.

We have a serious problem with our culture. We celebrate the lowest points and denigrate anything that rises above. We are a nation in decline.

Problem is that people have had their head in the sand about this stuff forever now, but why ? Why have we sat back and allowed these things to get this bad ?

The assault on our culture was a deliberately conducted war. Those prosecuting the culture war had eyes wide open, and they had a plan.

There is no increase in how many of these crimes are committed. I think an argument could be made that SOMETHING has changed WHO is committing these crimes.

Young, white , middle class males haven't typically been killing multiple people for no apparent reason.

Typically in the past it was mid 20s white males , outside of gang or mob related murders, I'm just talking about the "WTF murders" and most of those targeted a specific group, women who reminded them of mommy, gays, or whatever.

These shootings are by KIDS and apparently at random.

 

[Uncensored2008]

There is no increase in how many of these crimes are committed. I think an argument could be made that SOMETHING has changed WHO is committing these crimes.

Young, white , middle class males haven't typically been killing multiple people for no apparent reason.

Actually they have, going back to Billy the Kid. What has changed is that our media is far more tabloid in the past, and we are a more racist country than we used to be, so the color of the perpetrator is a major part of the story.

Typically in the past it was mid 20s white males , outside of gang or mob related murders, I'm just talking about the "WTF murders" and most of those targeted a specific group, women who reminded them of mommy, gays, or whatever.

These shootings are by KIDS and apparently at random.

I doubt they are actually random.

 

[Katzndogz]

We accommodate the mentally ill more now. We don't have a gun problem but a violence problem and a problem with the mentally ill. They are out on the streets by design.

 

[Uncensored2008]

We accommodate the mentally ill more now. We don't have a gun problem but a violence problem and a problem with the mentally ill. They are out on the streets by design.

Good point.

 

[catzmeow]

Mother Jones looked as mass murders since 1982 (though they missed quite a few cases). Their report becomes more accurate the closer you get to today.

Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, and religious and government buildings. Forty four of the killers were white males. Only one of them was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) The average age of the killers was 35, though the youngest among them was a mere 11 years old. (See Jonesboro, Ark., in 1998.)

There haven't been more mass murders (Mother Jones gets this wrong). The average number of mass murder victims, annually, has been between 161 and 163 since the 1980s. Adam Lanza wasn't a kid. Nor was James Holmes.

The pictures you saw of Adam Lanza mostly dated from his school years because he was a recluse after graduation.

But, the vast amount of press coverage that these incidents receive skews our perception of them.

Good article by James Fox, a criminology who has specialized in mass murder:

Back-to-school fears - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

 

[Ravi]

Mother Jones looked as mass murders since 1982 (though they missed quite a few cases). Their report becomes more accurate the closer you get to today.

Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, and religious and government buildings. Forty four of the killers were white males. Only one of them was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) The average age of the killers was 35, though the youngest among them was a mere 11 years old. (See Jonesboro, Ark., in 1998.)

There haven't been more mass murders (Mother Jones gets this wrong). The average number of mass murder victims, annually, has been between 161 and 163 since the 1980s. Adam Lanza wasn't a kid. Nor was James Holmes.

The pictures you saw of Adam Lanza mostly dated from his school years because he was a recluse after graduation.

But, the vast amount of press coverage that these incidents receive skews our perception of them.

Good article by James Fox, a criminology who has specialized in mass murder:

Back-to-school fears - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

Are there more victims per incident?

 

[catzmeow]

Another REALLY good read: Top 10 myths about mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

 

[peach174]

We are giving our children mind altering drugs and then sit them in front of violent video games,movies and TV shows.
Parents are using TV,Movies and video games as babysitters.
A Nation on Mind Altering Drugs: Antidepressants Most Commonly Prescribed Drugs in US

In all, the researchers found that the rate of antidepressant treatment increased from 5.84 percent to 10.12 percent between 1996 and 2005. That translates into a remarkable increase from an estimated 13.3 million taking antidepressants to 27 million people now on the mind and body-altering drugs.

The use of these drugs increased in1996 and then we had Columbine in 1999.
From the article;
Curiously, the only people who aren't apparently being prescribed these medications in droves are those in racial and ethnic minorities.

Here is your answer as to why it's young white males who are doing this.

 

[catzmeow]

Mother Jones looked as mass murders since 1982 (though they missed quite a few cases). Their report becomes more accurate the closer you get to today.

Half of the cases involved school or workplace shootings (12 and 19, respectively); the other 31 cases took place in locations including shopping malls, restaurants, and religious and government buildings. Forty four of the killers were white males. Only one of them was a woman. (See Goleta, Calif., in 2006.) The average age of the killers was 35, though the youngest among them was a mere 11 years old. (See Jonesboro, Ark., in 1998.)

There haven't been more mass murders (Mother Jones gets this wrong). The average number of mass murder victims, annually, has been between 161 and 163 since the 1980s. Adam Lanza wasn't a kid. Nor was James Holmes.

The pictures you saw of Adam Lanza mostly dated from his school years because he was a recluse after graduation.

But, the vast amount of press coverage that these incidents receive skews our perception of them.

Good article by James Fox, a criminology who has specialized in mass murder:

Back-to-school fears - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

Are there more victims per incident?

It varies dramatically. This is a great graphic representation prepared by James Fox (based upon the FBI NIBRS system):

I would say, generally, though that there aren't. Some years are bad, but frequently, the following year will have a dramatic decrease in victims. I think if you plotted the top green line (victims) in a trend map, it would be flat, but I haven't done that, so I can't be sure.

http://boston.com/community/blogs/c...s Shootings 1980-2010-thumb-533x320-79419.jpg

 

[Uncensored2008]

So playing off of the posts from Katzndogz and Fox, should there be an effort to keep the mentally ill away from violent video games?

I like games, I admit that at times it's as much about building the hardware with me as it is about the games themselves. (But I get 230 FPS from BF3 maxed out with 16X AA and 16:1 Anisotropic filtering!)

I play, mostly on weekends for a few hours. But someone who would spend 16 or more hours a day on a game is probably not right in the head. It's an obsession with some.

 

[catzmeow]

We are giving our children mind altering drugs and then sit them in front of violent video games,movies and TV shows.
Parents are using TV,Movies and video games as babysitters.
A Nation on Mind Altering Drugs: Antidepressants Most Commonly Prescribed Drugs in US

In all, the researchers found that the rate of antidepressant treatment increased from 5.84 percent to 10.12 percent between 1996 and 2005. That translates into a remarkable increase from an estimated 13.3 million taking antidepressants to 27 million people now on the mind and body-altering drugs.

The use of these drugs increased in1996 and then we had Columbine in 1999.
From the article;
Curiously, the only people who aren't apparently being prescribed these medications in droves are those in racial and ethnic minorities.

Here is your answer as to why it's young white males who are doing this.

I'm not going to say that people don't have poor parenting practices and that drugs aren't possibly over-prescribed.

On the flip side, violence in the U.S. is down, and it is down by a lot since 1996.

And, the bulk of mass murderers, since 1982, have been white.

 

[catzmeow]

So playing off of the posts from Katzndogz and Fox, should there be an effort to keep the mentally ill away from violent video games?

I like games, I admit that at times it's as much about building the hardware with me as it is about the games themselves. (But I get 230 FPS from BF3 maxed out with 16X AA and 16:1 Anisotropic filtering!)

I play, mostly on weekends for a few hours. But someone who would spend 16 or more hours a day on a game is probably not right in the head. It's an obsession with some.

Generally speaking, we can't even keep semi-automatic weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill (James Holmes, Adam Lanza). How on earth would we keep video games (which can be easily accessed as illegal utorrent downloads on the internet in places like thepiratebay.org) out of their hands?

 

[Ravi]

We are giving our children mind altering drugs and then sit them in front of violent video games,movies and TV shows.
Parents are using TV,Movies and video games as babysitters.
A Nation on Mind Altering Drugs: Antidepressants Most Commonly Prescribed Drugs in US

In all, the researchers found that the rate of antidepressant treatment increased from 5.84 percent to 10.12 percent between 1996 and 2005. That translates into a remarkable increase from an estimated 13.3 million taking antidepressants to 27 million people now on the mind and body-altering drugs.

The use of these drugs increased in1996 and then we had Columbine in 1999.
From the article;
Curiously, the only people who aren't apparently being prescribed these medications in droves are those in racial and ethnic minorities.

Here is your answer as to why it's young white males who are doing this.

I'm not going to say that people don't have poor parenting practices and that drugs aren't possibly over-prescribed.

On the flip side, violence in the U.S. is down, and it is down by a lot since 1996.

Then maybe the other studies I've seen are correct. Violent video games lead to a decrease in mass shootings.

 

[Foxfyre]

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently, and also in the ages that we are seeing involved in these events that of being younger and younger as we go.

It would seem that way, wouldn't it? But that isn't the case.

{ And yet those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.

"There is no pattern, there is no increase," says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston's Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.

The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.

Society moves on, he says, because of our ability to distance ourselves from the horror of the day, and because people believe that these tragedies are "one of the unfortunate prices we pay for our freedoms."}

Mass shootings are not growing in frequency, experts say - NY Daily News



Real rape is at an all time low. "Date rape" is impossible to quantify since it only became recognized in the last couple of decades

{The U.S. Justice Department's National Crime Victimization Survey (considered our best measure of crime because its anonymous surveys capture offenses not reported to police) reports that rape has been falling dramatically for decades}

The decline of rape - Los Angeles Times

The chances of a woman being attacked and raped are the lowest in human history. A woman still might get drunk and wake up deciding the guy she fucked is ugly (date rape) though.



We have a serious problem with our culture. We celebrate the lowest points and denigrate anything that rises above. We are a nation in decline.

Problem is that people have had their head in the sand about this stuff forever now, but why ? Why have we sat back and allowed these things to get this bad ?

The assault on our culture was a deliberately conducted war. Those prosecuting the culture war had eyes wide open, and they had a plan.

There is no increase in how many of these crimes are committed. I think an argument could be made that SOMETHING has changed WHO is committing these crimes.

Young, white , middle class males haven't typically been killing multiple people for no apparent reason.

Typically in the past it was mid 20s white males , outside of gang or mob related murders, I'm just talking about the "WTF murders" and most of those targeted a specific group, women who reminded them of mommy, gays, or whatever.

These shootings are by KIDS and apparently at random.

Again I am perfectly willing to be wrong about this, but so far the stuff ya'll have been posting is sort of reinforcing my perception. Again, if you take out the mob violence, gang activity, drug related stuff, and also the 'going postal' incidents--note the most recent article published mentioned that most victims KNOW their shooter, and focus on those senseless massacres in which there is no obvious motive and the victims are apparently purely random, can you still say there has been no increase in these?

If you can show that fine. I am perfectly willing to accept it.

But in the world of opinion pieces, you can find plenty who take the opposite view such as this:

In the wake of the massacres this year at a Colorado movie theater, a Sikh temple in Wisconsin, and Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, we set out to track mass shootings in the United States over the last 30 years. We identified and analyzed 62 of them, and one striking pattern in the data is this: In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun. And in other recent (but less lethal) rampages in which armed civilians attempted to intervene, those civilians not only failed to stop the shooter but also were gravely wounded or killed. Moreover, we found that the rate of mass shootings has increased in recent years—at a time when America has been flooded with millions of additional firearms and a barrage of new laws has made it easier than ever to carry them in public places, including bars, parks, and schools.
More Guns, More Mass Shootings?Coincidence? | Mother Jones

Now admittedly, Mother Jones is consistently anti-gun, pro gun control and we can expect an opinion piece in their publication to reflect that.

But look at the language in this piece in Reason that supports yall who say there is no increase in mass murders of innocents such as we saw at Sandy Hook:
Are Mass Shootings Becoming More Common in the United States? - Hit & Run : Reason.com

The identical words you see repeated again and again in article after article. None seem to be doing their own research but are copying from each other. And most don't cite who the 'experts' are or make any distinction in the types of mass murder that are included in the statistics. Probably most of those writers haven't even looked at any statistics.

I remain unconvinced and think it warrants a closer look.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Generally speaking, we can't even keep semi-automatic weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill (James Holmes, Adam Lanza). How on earth would we keep video games (which can be easily accessed as illegal utorrent downloads on the internet in places like thepiratebay.org) out of their hands?

By institutionalizing the mentally ill.

 

[catzmeow]

I remain unconvinced and think it warrants a closer look.

Nobody knows more about mass murder and serial killings in the U.S. than James Alan Cox and Jack Levin at Northeastern University. Using FBI NIBRS police incident report data, they've compile a database of serial killings and mass murders that date back to 1980. The database includes suspect demographics and possible motives in the killings from investigative notes. They segregated out the data that you're describing and examined these instances in depth.

Based on that database, mass murders have not increased since 1980.

No increase in mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

You've been given adequate opportunities to examine the data for yourself, and you choose to ignore it in favor of your paradigms.

Clearly, you would rather believe what you want to believe than objectively examine the evidence.

 

[catzmeow]

Generally speaking, we can't even keep semi-automatic weapons out of the hands of the mentally ill (James Holmes, Adam Lanza). How on earth would we keep video games (which can be easily accessed as illegal utorrent downloads on the internet in places like thepiratebay.org) out of their hands?

By institutionalizing the mentally ill.

Except that Fox and Levin found that a lot of the perpetrators weren't noticeably mentally ill:

Myth: Greater attention and response to the telltale warning signs will allow us to identify would-be mass killers before they act.
Reality: While there are some common features in the profile of a mass murderer (depression, resentment, social isolation, tendency to blame others for their misfortunes, fascination with violence, and interest in weaponry), those characteristics are all fairly prevalent in the general population. Any attempt to predict would produce many false positives. Actually, the telltale warning signs come into clear focus only after the deadly deed.

Myth: Widening the availability of mental-health services and reducing the stigma associated with mental illness will allow unstable individuals to get the treatment they need.
Reality: With their tendency to externalize blame and see themselves as victims of mistreatment, mass murderers perceive the problem to be in others, not themselves. They would generally resist attempts to encourage them to seek help. And, besides, our constant references to mass murderers as “wackos” or “sickos” don’t do much to destigmatize the mentally ill.

Top 10 myths about mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

I had to put myself in check on this subject, as well, since I'm one of the people who has advocated that the existing gaps in our mental health system are to blame.

 

[catzmeow]

[Now admittedly, Mother Jones is consistently anti-gun, pro gun control and we can expect an opinion piece in their publication to reflect that.

Mother Jones ignored most of the instances of mass murder that occurred in the 1980s, resulting in their conclusions being flawed.

Fox & Levin have the most accurate records on mass murder and their information has been provided above.

 

[Foxfyre]

I remain unconvinced and think it warrants a closer look.

Nobody knows more about mass murder and serial killings in the U.S. than James Alan Cox and Jack Levin at Northeastern University. Using FBI NIBRS police incident report data, they've compile a database of serial killings and mass murders that date back to 1980. The database includes suspect demographics and possible motives in the killings from investigative notes. They segregated out the data that you're describing and examined these instances in depth.

Based on that database, mass murders have not increased since 1980.

No increase in mass shootings - James Alan Fox - Crime & Punishment blog - Boston.com

You've been given adequate opportunities to examine the data for yourself, and you choose to ignore it in favor of your paradigms.

Clearly, you would rather believe what you want to believe than objectively examine the evidence.

I have no paradigms Catz. I respectfully request that you acknowledge that I have said that. I do have perceptions, and if they are wrong I am perfectly willing to accept that.

Show me in that graph, which has also been posted again and again and again on message boards and in various articles on this subject, that it reflects only those senseless murders with no apparent motive. Or does it include organized crime activity, gang activity, drug activity, work place violence? I have asked that question several times now and asked you to address it. Will you?

 

[JustTheFacts]

There is no increase in how many of these crimes are committed. I think an argument could be made that SOMETHING has changed WHO is committing these crimes.

Young, white , middle class males haven't typically been killing multiple people for no apparent reason.

Actually they have, going back to Billy the Kid. What has changed is that our media is far more tabloid in the past, and we are a more racist country than we used to be, so the color of the perpetrator is a major part of the story.

Typically in the past it was mid 20s white males , outside of gang or mob related murders, I'm just talking about the "WTF murders" and most of those targeted a specific group, women who reminded them of mommy, gays, or whatever.

These shootings are by KIDS and apparently at random.

I doubt they are actually random.

Ah Billy the Kid. You do realize that historians say he actually only killed four men right? And two of those were in self defense.

Hardly the same as killing 22 kindergartners.