Ban or Censor Video Games, Not Guns?

[Ravi]

I have a hard time believing that there are many parents out there that let their children grow up playing these uber-violent video games anyway. Sure, some kids sneak and do it just like some of us raided our parents liquor cabinets. But those kids aren't the norm.

 

[Uncensored2008]

But how do you arrive at your opinion that it has nothing to do with the mass murders like Sandy Hook? Have you read any of commentary on studies we have linked thus far? Lots of pro and con discussion there, but the fact that there have been some 3000 studies to date suggests that a whole lot of professional people are NOT convinced that violence in media, music, and video games has nothing at all to do with it.

When we get into issue like this, it boils down to opinion. There is no actual evidence that video game violence is causative. If anything, the violence in video games is a reflection of the breakdown of social norms. I say that since violence is a major theme of all forms of popular entertainment. Rap chants are about the most violent popular media around.

Again if the evidence shows that such violence has no lasting negative affect on the young, so be it. But if it does, I think that merits some attention.

I've already said that this should be kept away from the young. But that falls back to parenting. Just as is the case with violent movies and Rap chants, the only way to keep this away from children is for parents to act.

There are so many different angles different groups/people are working for. One suggestion is that the violence is dismissed by those who want to blame the proliferation and availability of guns. (Conversely, it is reasonable to think the gun lobby would have a motive to look for something to blame other than guns.) Another suggestion is that violent content is not harmful to the young, yet they support the rating of the content. If it isn't harmful, why rate it? But as I and other have posted, there are credible people saying that the studies showing that violent content can be harmful to kids are flawed.

I'm old enough to remember a time when subject matter was geared toward age appropriateness. I still support these notions.

So since nobody seems to have a firm fix on it, I want to know. And that's why I started the thread.

Sexual and violent content should be kept from kids.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I have a hard time believing that there are many parents out there that let their children grow up playing these uber-violent video games anyway. Sure, some kids sneak and do it just like some of us raided our parents liquor cabinets. But those kids aren't the norm.

Just go onto any multiplayer server and you'll fine out quickly the millions of children who are playing the uber-violent games.

The problem is that parents don't parent.

 

[Foxfyre]

I have a hard time believing that there are many parents out there that let their children grow up playing these uber-violent video games anyway. Sure, some kids sneak and do it just like some of us raided our parents liquor cabinets. But those kids aren't the norm.

Just go onto any multiplayer server and you'll fine out quickly the millions of children who are playing the uber-violent games.

The problem is that parents don't parent.

Yes, and more than one who have posted on this thread have said the very same thing. And nobody suggested that parenting is not and should not be part of the equation.

Personally I don't think occasional exposure to media, music, or video violence is probably going to have lasting affect on any kid, even the screwed up ones. But with frequent, prolonged, repetitive exposure, my instincts tell me that at least some of those studies might be right. You see too many young kids acting out--in frustration or for fun--some of the stuff they see on television or whatever. And I am curious whether this could carry over into older kids who have the ability and perhaps the inclination to act out more realistically?

I honestly don't know. I'm not ready to say yes or no re that theory.

For sure it doesn't help if parents hear that there is nothing really harmful in the content their kids are watching and therefore the parents shouldn't worry about it.

 

[Koios]

I have a hard time believing that there are many parents out there that let their children grow up playing these uber-violent video games anyway. Sure, some kids sneak and do it just like some of us raided our parents liquor cabinets. But those kids aren't the norm.

Just go onto any multiplayer server and you'll fine out quickly the millions of children who are playing the uber-violent games.

The problem is that parents don't parent.

Yes, and more than one who have posted on this thread have said the very same thing. And nobody suggested that parenting is not and should not be part of the equation.

Personally I don't think occasional exposure to media, music, or video violence is probably going to have lasting affect on any kid, even the screwed up ones. But with frequent, prolonged, repetitive exposure, my instincts tell me that at least some of those studies might be right. You see too many young kids acting out--in frustration or for fun--some of the stuff they see on television or whatever. And I am curious whether this could carry over into older kids who have the ability and perhaps the inclination to act out more realistically?

I honestly don't know. I'm not ready to say yes or no re that theory.

For sure it doesn't help if parents hear that there is nothing really harmful in the content their kids are watching and therefore the parents shouldn't worry about it.

Parenting is in the equation already. The question then is: is that enough, or do we need stricter regulatory controls?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Yes, and more than one who have posted on this thread have said the very same thing. And nobody suggested that parenting is not and should not be part of the equation.

Personally I don't think occasional exposure to media, music, or video violence is probably going to have lasting affect on any kid, even the screwed up ones. But with frequent, prolonged, repetitive exposure, my instincts tell me that at least some of those studies might be right. You see too many young kids acting out--in frustration or for fun--some of the stuff they see on television or whatever. And I am curious whether this could carry over into older kids who have the ability and perhaps the inclination to act out more realistically?

I honestly don't know. I'm not ready to say yes or no re that theory.

For sure it doesn't help if parents hear that there is nothing really harmful in the content their kids are watching and therefore the parents shouldn't worry about it.

Catz brought up a good point in that in broken families, parenting can be sporadic. It sounds like she parented but her ex didn't. That happens all too often. I'm not criticizing, I'm on my second and final marriage, but divorce often destroys the united front that parents need to present. So even with the best of intentions, the child is still exposed to objectionable content.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes, and more than one who have posted on this thread have said the very same thing. And nobody suggested that parenting is not and should not be part of the equation.

Personally I don't think occasional exposure to media, music, or video violence is probably going to have lasting affect on any kid, even the screwed up ones. But with frequent, prolonged, repetitive exposure, my instincts tell me that at least some of those studies might be right. You see too many young kids acting out--in frustration or for fun--some of the stuff they see on television or whatever. And I am curious whether this could carry over into older kids who have the ability and perhaps the inclination to act out more realistically?

I honestly don't know. I'm not ready to say yes or no re that theory.

For sure it doesn't help if parents hear that there is nothing really harmful in the content their kids are watching and therefore the parents shouldn't worry about it.

Catz brought up a good point in that in broken families, parenting can be sporadic. It sounds like she parented but her ex didn't. That happens all too often. I'm not criticizing, I'm on my second and final marriage, but divorce often destroys the united front that parents need to present. So even with the best of intentions, the child is still exposed to objectionable content.

All too true. Many of us could write a book on how NOT to parent and how parents who don't provide a unified front can be extremely destructive. And while we are all agreed that parenting is important, how to parent well is also a topic for another thread.

But before we can move to a debate on how to deal with the problem re violent media, music, and video games, unified or not and most especially related to the mass killings in recent decades, we first need to know whether there is a problem that needs to be fixed. You don't fix a broken faucet by painting the porch.

 

[blackhawk]

Just for the record I play Call Of Duty and Medal Of Honor don't mess with my games.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Just for the record I play Call Of Duty and Medal Of Honor don't mess with my games.

If you're an adult, you have every right to play them.

I don't believe any law can address a lack of parenting, so I oppose any restrictions on video games.

 

[beagle9]

I don't think history supports that conclusion. Charles Whitman, the 1963 Texas bell tower sniper, that was akin to what we see today. We've had mass killings for a long time. They're on the decline despite more firearms and more violent entertainment. There is no empirical evidence to suggest either lead to actual violence.

Nobody is happy with crazies killing innocents but it's reasonable to keep in mind that this kind of thing is exceedingly rare, less than one tenth of one percent of murders. There are ways to guard against such things without impeding on the rights of others. IMO, Free people making voluntary choices will respond the best way possible to deal with this kind of craziness.

You know I have lived in this nation since I was born in 1960, and I remember it never being this bad for our youth over the years in this way, and this especially so as is found in percentages of now, and to the bombardment we are experiencing in this nation to date, so there is no way that you can go back and mention a few bad instances that were few and far between in percentages of, in order to suggest that we are not really in that bad a shape these days, because you are wrong on that assumption or statement my friend, and everyone here knows it.

I guess you have a faulty memory. Here's an interesting article on school shootings in just the Northeast during the 1940s and 1950s.

Concealed Carry Laws and School Safety: Evidence from the 1940s and 1950s «

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently, and also in the ages that we are seeing involved in these events that of being younger and younger as we go. I mean look at the single kid on kid murders that have been taking place in the past 25 years alone, and then these school shootings by these young men, and the rape that has become more prevalent now in America. It seems that a volatile cocktail gets mixed into these young people heads, and all depending on the young person or young adult's character, we get what we get as a result of this cocktail and/or mixture.

Problem is that people have had their head in the sand about this stuff forever now, but why ? Why have we sat back and allowed these things to get this bad ?

 

[beagle9]

Just for the record I play Call Of Duty and Medal Of Honor don't mess with my games.

If you're an adult, you have every right to play them.

I don't believe any law can address a lack of parenting, so I oppose any restrictions on video games.

Another serious problem found in this nation, is the "selfishness" as is found in some people for whom make such a statement as this in which you had responded to above. Just because he see's nothing wrong in his games according to him, doesn't mean that we don't have many whom can't handle these same games, yet are easily being bombarded with them now in the worst ways, and then they are learning some bad stuff from these games in the form in which they have been taken in script there of, so you take these games and add some mental health problems, some drugs, a gun or guns, bad parents maybe, tough economics, abuse as a child possibly, and wa-la you get a situation that is dangerous as it can be out in society. They then use all of it as reality brought to life in their twisted minds, instead of keeping this stuff in fiction where it always needs to stay in which they can't seem to do.

I am not for taking anyone's games, just like I am not for taking anyone's guns, but we could do more to protect the good people who use these things legally and righteously, and this by keeping this sort of stuff out of the hands of those who don't need these things at all in their torn and tormented lives.

Now we just need to get our selfish attitudes and put them away for a second, and figure out how to keep these things out of the hands of the mentally ill, the criminals, and those who are easily followers of crime instead of leaders of good in their lives.

Hey maybe not mess with your games I agree, but how about changing them a bit in content of, you know just so if a bad kid or young adult gets introduced to them or getting his or her hands on them, and thus ending up with them, then maybe if they were re-programed to not be anything that the person would want to use as a training tool to do combat against innocent citizens within a virtual reality, and this by being allowed to kill them (the innocents in the game), you know if one wants to be the bad guy in that way, then we will have made progress again in our society as a whole.

We have a lot of spoiled rotten people in this nation now, whom only think of me, me, me, and then they dis-regard the fall out from these games, when they end up into the wrong hands, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

[beagle9]

I have a hard time believing that there are many parents out there that let their children grow up playing these uber-violent video games anyway. Sure, some kids sneak and do it just like some of us raided our parents liquor cabinets. But those kids aren't the norm.

The parents are working all the time or breaking up all the time now, so the kids are raising themselves.

Where the parents are not, and the cubs are weakened because of them not being there or they are there but not there, then this is where the wolf / the devil's seat is, who very easily and readily becomes the father of these children. Then we all know where that leads to next.

 

[JustTheFacts]

Reflexes.

Hmm, really? Wrong. Try again.

Reflexes LOL laughable on the surface. I have GREAT reflexes in Madden 2013. I'd get killed if I was to ever play QB in the NFL tits not hough.

Apples and oranges. Don't take my word for it, google or ask the military.

Its not apples and oranges. I can out shoot my son uaing my off hand any day of the week and he kills me in modern warfare.

Ps hes an adult and was not allowed to have m rated games until he turned 17

 

[Ravi]

Hmm, really? Wrong. Try again.

Reflexes LOL laughable on the surface. I have GREAT reflexes in Madden 2013. I'd get killed if I was to ever play QB in the NFL tits not hough.

Apples and oranges. Don't take my word for it, google or ask the military.

Its not apples and oranges. I can out shoot my son uaing my off hand any day of the week and he kills me in modern warfare.

Ps hes an adult and was not allowed to have m rated games until he turned 17

Beyond the flight simulators used to train pilots, the U.S. military branches use other virtual reality military applications to put soldiers in virtual war scenarios. For example, the Army's Engagement Skills Trainer (EST) gives each student the sound and feel of the different firearms he or she might use on the job. Beyond practice firing, the EST provides real-life scenarios to help soldiers determine when to shoot and when not to shoot. Another simulator, the Virtual Convoy Operations Trainer (VCOT), puts a team of soldiers in different roles in combat scenarios, training them to communicate and work together.

HowStuffWorks "Military Training Goes Digital"

 

[JustTheFacts]

Apples and oranges. Don't take my word for it, google or ask the military.

Its not apples and oranges. I can out shoot my son uaing my off hand any day of the week and he kills me in modern warfare.

Ps hes an adult and was not allowed to have m rated games until he turned 17

Beyond the flight simulators used to train pilots, the U.S. military branches use other virtual reality military applications to put soldiers in virtual war scenarios. For example, the Army's Engagement Skills Trainer (EST) gives each student the sound and feel of the different firearms he or she might use on the job. Beyond practice firing, the EST provides real-life scenarios to help soldiers determine when to shoot and when not to shoot. Another simulator, the Virtual Convoy Operations Trainer (VCOT), puts a team of soldiers in different roles in combat scenarios, training them to communicate and work together.

HowStuffWorks "Military Training Goes Digital"

Which is entirely different than "reflexes"

Actually the Army is confirming what I said about video games many pages ago. They are UBER realistic nowadays.

But no so realistic as to teach a person how to shoot. Big difference between mashing buttons and pulling triggers.

Now to touch on something you said earlier about children not playing these games in big numbers. You're wrong on that score to. I don't know if you know it or not, but you can go online, and play multiplayer in these games. You can even use a headset to talk to the people you're playing with.

It's quite depressing to hear so many children not just playng the games , but to be screaming obscenities and what not while doing so, so depressing that I have given up playing there

 

[catzmeow]

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently

Actual data on mass murders from the FBI says no.

In fact, the number of incidents in 2012 was 7% lower than the average for 2000-2010.

 

[catzmeow]

I indeed believe there has been a senseless increase in mass murders of innocents,

What is your belief based upon? I've provided you with crime data from the FBI and a scholarly research publication that shows that there has not been an increase in mass murders of innocents since the 1960s.

Instead, there has been an increase in the amount of media coverage that each of these acts receives.

Your belief is not factual. When the actual crime data on mass murders shows the opposite of your perceptions, which do you choose? Do you continue to hold onto your belief, or revise it in accordance with the facts?

 

[Foxfyre]

As long as you try to turn this discussion into my agenda Catz, we have nothing to discuss since I don't have an agenda here other than to have a discussion about how best to deal with the problem. I have already conceded that you don't think we have a problem. And you have been invited to show how if you take the organized crime, drug stuff, gang activity etc. out of the equation and show that killers gunning down large groups of innocent people is no more prevalent now than it has ever been, go for it.

I am perfectly willing to be wrong in my perception. But so far, nobody has shown me that I am. Without demonstrated evidence anybody's opinion is as good as anybody's.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This nation is huge and hugely populated, and yes we have had many events over time that were tragic and murderous, however in percentages of, we have got to be breaking records these days in the amount that these events are taking place now more frequently, and also in the ages that we are seeing involved in these events that of being younger and younger as we go.

It would seem that way, wouldn't it? But that isn't the case.

{ And yet those who study mass shootings say they are not becoming more common.

"There is no pattern, there is no increase," says criminologist James Allen Fox of Boston's Northeastern University, who has been studying the subject since the 1980s, spurred by a rash of mass shootings in post offices.

The random mass shootings that get the most media attention are the rarest, Fox says. Most people who die of bullet wounds knew the identity of their killer.

Society moves on, he says, because of our ability to distance ourselves from the horror of the day, and because people believe that these tragedies are "one of the unfortunate prices we pay for our freedoms."}

Mass shootings are not growing in frequency, experts say - NY Daily News

I mean look at the single kid on kid murders that have been taking place in the past 25 years alone, and then these school shootings by these young men, and the rape that has become more prevalent now in America.

Real rape is at an all time low. "Date rape" is impossible to quantify since it only became recognized in the last couple of decades

{The U.S. Justice Department's National Crime Victimization Survey (considered our best measure of crime because its anonymous surveys capture offenses not reported to police) reports that rape has been falling dramatically for decades}

The decline of rape - Los Angeles Times

The chances of a woman being attacked and raped are the lowest in human history. A woman still might get drunk and wake up deciding the guy she fucked is ugly (date rape) though.

It seems that a volatile cocktail gets mixed into these young people heads, and all depending on the young person or young adult's character, we get what we get as a result of this cocktail and/or mixture.

We have a serious problem with our culture. We celebrate the lowest points and denigrate anything that rises above. We are a nation in decline.

Problem is that people have had their head in the sand about this stuff forever now, but why ? Why have we sat back and allowed these things to get this bad ?

The assault on our culture was a deliberately conducted war. Those prosecuting the culture war had eyes wide open, and they had a plan.

 

[catzmeow]

As long as you try to turn this discussion into my agenda Catz, we have nothing to discuss since I don't have an agenda here other than to have a discussion about how best to deal with the problem. I have already conceded that you don't think we have a problem. And you have been invited to show how if you take the and show that killers gunning down large groups of innocent people is no more prevalent now than it has ever been, go for it.

I am perfectly willing to be wrong in my perception. But so far, nobody has shown me that I am. Without demonstrated evidence anybody's opinion is as good as anybody's.

I've already provided the evidence you asked for. Uncensored just provided it again, in the post above this one. Is the FBI not a trustworthy source for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_murder

Mass murders by gang members are relatively rare (because by definition, a mass murder has at least 4 victims), and they generally aren't gang-related (committed to further the purposes of the gang). One of my former clients committed a multiple homicide in a taqueria in the 1990s. He didn't do it for the gang, he did it because he was mentally ill, high on cocaine, and it happened during the comission of a felony robbery. The people he killed were random and innocent, not rival gang members.

A lot of the drug-related mass murders you are probably thinking about haven't happened in the U.S., though they are commonly committed by drug gangs in Mexico.

Here's another article. i'm posting it in the hopes that you will actually read it.

http://www.auburn.edu/~peteeta/massmurder1.htm