Bashing Ayn Rand

[Redfish]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Of course you have a choice.

You have the same choice that I have when this country goes to war, illegally. And I'm forced to pay for it.

Which wars were illegal?

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

 

[Redfish]

Of course you have a choice.

You have the same choice that I have when this country goes to war, illegally. And I'm forced to pay for it.

Which wars were illegal?

Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Iraq (Both invasions)..heck..most of them were..

Read all about it.

Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

stupid and a waste of lives and money, but illegal? which of them was not authorized and funded by congress?

 

[Truthseeker420]

Of course you have a choice.

You have the same choice that I have when this country goes to war, illegally. And I'm forced to pay for it.

Which wars were illegal?

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

Vietnam War was started by a Democrat

 

[Contumacious]

No, she was neither great nor is she missed.

Yes, indeed. The OP is screwed up. There is no way Ayn Rand can compare to our Honorable Founding Father :

Karl Marx
Born in the People's Republic of Taxachussets
( 5 May 1818 – 14 March 1883)

.

 

[Redfish]

Which wars were illegal?

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

Vietnam War was started by a Democrat

right, 58,000 americans dead and billions wasted in Kennedy and Johnson's fiasco in viet nam.

 

[Sallow]

Which wars were illegal?

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

Vietnam War was started by a Democrat

Not really.

It goes back to Eisenhower.

 

[Sallow]

Of course you have a choice.

You have the same choice that I have when this country goes to war, illegally. And I'm forced to pay for it.

Which wars were illegal?

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

You shouldn't be answering for anyone..

 

[Redfish]

let me answer for sallow, all were illegal except the ones started by democrats.

Vietnam War was started by a Democrat

Not really.

It goes back to Eisenhower.

the expansion and the american deaths were under kennedy and johnson. Ike sent advisiors (mistake), Nixon ended it by declaring defeat.

the whole thing is a sad chapter in american history

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Nonsense.

Nothing is ‘forced’ on anyone, including the ACA.

One must apply and be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. And Medicare is like any other insurance, no one is forced to use it, one may purchase and pay premiums for his own private insurance and ignore the Medicare if he elects to do so.

 

[Sallow]

Vietnam War was started by a Democrat

Not really.

It goes back to Eisenhower.

the expansion and the american deaths were under kennedy and johnson. Ike sent advisiors (mistake), Nixon ended it by declaring defeat.

the whole thing is a sad chapter in american history

Ike stopped a general vote.

Your acumen in American history is astounding ace.

By 1954 the war in Vietnam had become increasingly unpopular in France. The defeat of French troops by Communist forces at Dienbienphu left France exhausted, exasperated and keen to withdraw. At the international conference convened to discuss French Indochina at Geneva in May 1954, the French exit was formalised. Vietnam was temporarily divided, with Ho Chi Minh in control of the north and the Emperor Bao Dai in control of the south. The Geneva Accords declared that there were to be nationwide elections leading to reunification of Vietnam in 1956. However, US intervention ensured that this ‘temporary division’ was to last for more than 20 years.

The United States refused to sign the Geneva Accords and moved to defy them within weeks. Eisenhower's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, organised allies such as Britain in the South-east Asia Treaty Organisation (SEATO). The SEATO signatories agreed to protect South Vietnam, in defiance of the Geneva Accords, which had forbidden the Vietnamese from entering into foreign alliances or to allow foreign troops in Vietnam.

The Eisenhower administration encouraged Bao Dai to appoint Ngo Dinh Diem as his prime minister, and then proceeded to engage in ‘nation building’. Eisenhower and Dulles created a new state, in defiance (yet again) of the Geneva Accords and of what was known to be the will of the Vietnamese people. Eisenhower recorded in his memoirs that he knew that if there had been genuine democratic elections in Vietnam in 1956, Ho Chi Minh would have won around 80 per cent of the vote. In order to avoid a wholly Communist Vietnam, the US had sponsored an artificial political creation, the state of South Vietnam.
Turning Points in the Vietnam War | History Today

 

[Katzndogz]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Nonsense.

Nothing is ‘forced’ on anyone, including the ACA.

One must apply and be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. And Medicare is like any other insurance, no one is forced to use it, one may purchase and pay premiums for his own private insurance and ignore the Medicare if he elects to do so.

When a person is 64 1/2, they get a letter from the Social Security administration as to the funds they receive and when they will begin receiving it. The recipient is to advise the SSA as to whether they want direct deposit or mailed check. In that letter is notification that from their SS checks, an amount of money will be deducted to pay for Medicare. Enclosed is a form to fill out if the individual wants to opt out of Medicare. The money will not be deducted. Your medicare card is already enclosed with a warning that if you opt out, the card is invalid.

After you get your handy dandy medicare card, you may contact a third party insurance carrier and arrange for whatever benefit that carrier provides to get the premiums SS is already deducting. At that time you can arrange for additional supplemental insurance, dental insurance, vision, etc, and you will authorize the additional money deducted from your SS check.

That's how I have always seen it work.

 

[peach174]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Nonsense.

Nothing is ‘forced’ on anyone, including the ACA.

One must apply and be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. And Medicare is like any other insurance, no one is forced to use it, one may purchase and pay premiums for his own private insurance and ignore the Medicare if he elects to do so.

Well we got the answer as to why.
It isn't true.
You try not paying for them (your payroll tax) when you get your check every week or 2 weeks.

You can't opt out of Social Security contributions

The FICA taxes imposed are mandatory on covered workers and the self-employed who are covered. Employers are required to report wages to Social Security for processing Forms W-2 and W-3. Internal Revenue Code Provisions section 3101 imposes payroll taxes on individuals and employer matching taxes. Section 3102 mandates that employers deduct these payroll taxes from workers' wages, at the payroll tax is mandatory worker's request (form W-4), before they are paid. Generally, the tax is mandatory on everyone in employment earning "wages" as defined in 3121 of the Internal Revenue Code, and also taxes net earnings from self-employment.
Importantly, most parents apply for Social Security numbers for their dependent children in order to include them on their income tax returns as a dependent. Everyone filing a tax return, as taxpayer or spouse, must have a Social Security Number or Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) since the IRS is unable to process returns or post payments for anyone without an SSN or TIN. Moreover, the Internal Revenue Service will not issue a TIN to anyone who qualifies for, but is not denied a Social Security number.

Medicare
…a federal appeals court ruled that senior citizens who receive Social Security cannot reject their legal right to Medicare benefits, in a rare case of Americans suing to get out of a government entitlement.

Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey is among the five senior citizens who sued to stop their automatic eligibility for Medicare. But the appeals court ruled in a split decision that the law gives them no way to opt out of their eligibility if they want to keep their Social Security benefits.

They force it one way or another.
Either by mandatory law or penalties.

 

[bripat9643]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Nonsense.

Nothing is ‘forced’ on anyone, including the ACA.

Utter horseshit. Every law is forced. The government uses guns to obtain your compliance.

One must apply and be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. And Medicare is like any other insurance, no one is forced to use it, one may purchase and pay premiums for his own private insurance and ignore the Medicare if he elects to do so.

You don't "apply" to pay FICA and Medicare taxes. The government uses guns to make you pay them.

You have to be a major fucking moron to believe these programs are voluntary. Why would the government even need to get involved if they were voluntary? They could be private services if they were voluntary.

 

[Dot Com]

Does anyone here admit to being a Randite? Even Paul Ryan (R) has based his entire career on her, that is until he put out a budget that the catholic church chided as welfare for the rich.

 

[JakeStarkey]

its not socialism-----------yet.

Classic definitions always trump made up current definitions.

It will become single payer if the GOP and the health care industry work to make this system don't work.

If that happens, the electorate will put in a congress and president to make ACA work, even if government has to take over the system.

Oh, single payer is not socialism

Do Canada and the UK have socialized medicine?

Yup, Medicare and Medicaid are single payer, and the programs are not socialism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Why do so many of those that vote for the Democrats think that Medicare and Social Security is a choice?
You are forced to pay for Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and you are forced to get it when you retire.
There is no choice and when those who talk about Ayn Rand with regards to getting Medicare and SSI she had no choice either.
She was forced to pay for Medicare and Social Security and she was forced to take it just like all the rest of us.

Just like the New Health Care Act. It was forced on us.

Nonsense.

Nothing is ‘forced’ on anyone, including the ACA.

Utter horseshit. Every law is forced. The government uses guns to obtain your compliance.

One must apply and be eligible for Social Security and Medicare. And Medicare is like any other insurance, no one is forced to use it, one may purchase and pay premiums for his own private insurance and ignore the Medicare if he elects to do so.

You don't "apply" to pay FICA and Medicare taxes. The government uses guns to make you pay them.

You have to be a major ******** moron to believe these programs are voluntary. Why would the government even need to get involved if they were voluntary? They could be private services if they were voluntary.

You don't like democracy or the constitution. No one cares.

 

[Redfish]

Not really.

It goes back to Eisenhower.

the expansion and the american deaths were under kennedy and johnson. Ike sent advisiors (mistake), Nixon ended it by declaring defeat.

the whole thing is a sad chapter in american history

Ike stopped a general vote.

Your acumen in American history is astounding ace.

By 1954 the war in Vietnam had become increasingly unpopular in France. The defeat of French troops by Communist forces at Dienbienphu left France exhausted, exasperated and keen to withdraw. At the international conference convened to discuss French Indochina at Geneva in May 1954, the French exit was formalised. Vietnam was temporarily divided, with Ho Chi Minh in control of the north and the Emperor Bao Dai in control of the south. The Geneva Accords declared that there were to be nationwide elections leading to reunification of Vietnam in 1956. However, US intervention ensured that this ‘temporary division’ was to last for more than 20 years.

The United States refused to sign the Geneva Accords and moved to defy them within weeks. Eisenhower's Secretary of State, John Foster Dulles, organised allies such as Britain in the South-east Asia Treaty Organisation (SEATO). The SEATO signatories agreed to protect South Vietnam, in defiance of the Geneva Accords, which had forbidden the Vietnamese from entering into foreign alliances or to allow foreign troops in Vietnam.

The Eisenhower administration encouraged Bao Dai to appoint Ngo Dinh Diem as his prime minister, and then proceeded to engage in ‘nation building’. Eisenhower and Dulles created a new state, in defiance (yet again) of the Geneva Accords and of what was known to be the will of the Vietnamese people. Eisenhower recorded in his memoirs that he knew that if there had been genuine democratic elections in Vietnam in 1956, Ho Chi Minh would have won around 80 per cent of the vote. In order to avoid a wholly Communist Vietnam, the US had sponsored an artificial political creation, the state of South Vietnam.
Turning Points in the Vietnam War | History Today

my history is just fine. We were talking about the 58,000 americans who died for nothing and the billions that we wasted. Kennedy and Johnson escalated the war, they could have easily gotten us out of it, but did not.

The american people were opposed to it by a huge margin, but Kennedy and Johnson ignored the will of the people and continued the failed idea of stopping communism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

We were talking about the 58,000 americans who died for nothing and the billions that we wasted. Kennedy and Johnson escalated the war, they could have easily gotten us out of it, but did not. The american people were opposed to it by a huge margin, but Kennedy and Johnson ignored the will of the people and continued the failed idea of stopping communism.

No wonder I won't accept your history any more than your definitions.

You really don't understand any of it.

 

[Redfish]

We were talking about the 58,000 americans who died for nothing and the billions that we wasted. Kennedy and Johnson escalated the war, they could have easily gotten us out of it, but did not. The american people were opposed to it by a huge margin, but Kennedy and Johnson ignored the will of the people and continued the failed idea of stopping communism.

No wonder I won't accept your history any more than your definitions.

You really don't understand any of it.

I lived through it, dude. I understand it very well. I watched some of my friends go to Canada, we all watched our draft numbers and hoped we did not get called, the ones who did get drafted came back and were treated like dirt. It was a terrible period in american history and Kennedy and Johnson bear most of the responsibility for it.

Then Nixon ended it by declaring the first defeat of the US in history. My concern today is that Iraq and Afghanistan will end the same way-----american kids dead, billions wasted, for nothing.

 

[Redfish]

Classic definitions always trump made up current definitions.

It will become single payer if the GOP and the health care industry work to make this system don't work.

If that happens, the electorate will put in a congress and president to make ACA work, even if government has to take over the system.

Oh, single payer is not socialism

Do Canada and the UK have socialized medicine?

Yup, Medicare and Medicaid are single payer, and the programs are not socialism.

are those programs run efficiently? are they going broke?