Battle of Bakhmud won by Russia

[Litwin]

Your answer is just continue to provoke them. Why? For what purpose? Do you desire nuclear war? Do you work for Raytheon?

Have you failed to understand the neocons and neolibs in every administration from Clinton to today have been actively working to provoke Russia? Why do they want to provoke the world’s largest nuclear power? Why would they expand NATO to their borders, when they said they wouldn’t? Why would they negotiate in bad faith the Minsk Accords? Why would they send billions to Ukraine when millions of Americans live in poverty?

 

[krichton]

Your answer is just continue to provoke them. Why? For what purpose? Do you desire nuclear war? Do you work for Raytheon?

Have you failed to understand the neocons and neolibs in every administration from Clinton to today have been actively working to provoke Russia? Why do they want to provoke the world’s largest nuclear power? Why would they expand NATO to their borders, when they said they wouldn’t? Why would they negotiate in bad faith the Minsk Accords? Why would they send billions to Ukraine when millions of Americans live in poverty?

You act as if your friends in the kremlin are some innocent party that just wants to be left alone, HAHAHAHA.

 

[gipper]

You act as if your friends in the kremlin are some innocent party that just wants to be left alone, HAHAHAHA.

Funny how you warmongering statists are so consistently childlike.

“Westerners constantly respond to criticism of US foreign policy with "You love Putin and think he is good" because they really, truly subscribe to a children's cartoon show "Good Guys vs Bad Guys" worldview. To them, saying one side is Bad means you think the other side is Good.”

 

[gipper]

And yet NATO doesn't dare even set one foot in Ukraine to help them fight off Russia. Even tanks have taken this long just to get to them. Why would a nuclear superpower like Russia have to fear from NATO? Putin is only afraid that they will stop him from expanding his borders, not the other way around. That's his one and only fear, not that they will attack Russia itself.

Are you unaware many NATO nations have provided billions in military aid to Ukraine? Are you unaware Ukraine sought NATO membership? Are you unaware the Minsk talks were a delaying tactic?

Russia has stated clearly for 30 years do not expand NATO to our border. Are you also unaware of this? Are you unaware of NATO’s OFFENSIVE military operations in the past 30 years?

Why post propaganda straight from the desks of state run media? Can’t you think for yourself?

 

[JohnDB]

Are you unaware many NATO nations have provided billions in military aid to Ukraine? Are you unaware Ukraine sought NATO membership? Are you unaware the Minsk talks were a delaying tactic?

Russia has stated clearly for 30 years do not expand NATO to our border. Are you also unaware of this? Are you unaware of NATO’s OFFENSIVE military operations in the past 30 years?

Why post propaganda straight from the desks of state run media? Can’t you think for yourself?

NATO doesn't do offensive military operations.
And there are many countries on the Russian border that are members of NATO.....have been for decades....Even during the cold War.
NATO is an agreement/Treaty. Not anything else.

Lithuania, Poland, and etc.

What about East Prussia DEEP inside the EU? Nobody has attacked them....nobody has had plans to. They keep claiming Poland is going to attack but instead Poland gives them the finger and stays away. Poland is a member of NATO but it doesn't speak for all of NATO. And currently there are no plans by NATO to attack at all.

And the USA is Russia's neighbor....has been since Russia sold the USA the territory of Alaska....where the military has all kinds of ABM defenses. Nuclear missiles, submarines, Coast Guard and war ships. Billions in gold and oil are pumped our of Alaska on a yearly basis. Russia has even pumped oil down the Alaskan pipeline itself to get oil to CA.

So your claims are ridiculous

 

[JohnDB]

It's pretty clear....
Russia WAS in no danger....if it had simply learned to keep its military to itself it wouldn't have any reason to fear whatsoever. But it didn't....and people are dying because of Russian psy-ops, military actions, and internet attacks. So Russia is a murderer. Time for it to go "bye bye".

 

[para bellum]

And the USA is Russia's neighbor....has been since Russia sold the USA the territory of Alaska....where the military has all kinds of ABM defenses. Nuclear missiles, submarines, Coast Guard and war ships. Billions in gold and oil are pumped our of Alaska on a yearly basis. Russia has even pumped oil down the Alaskan pipeline itself to get oil to CA.

Well now I'm not sure where you get all this John. Yes, the US bought Alaska from Russia in 1867, for the price of 2 cents/acre. It was called "Seward's Folly" at the time.

There are ABM interceptors (GBI) at Ft. Greely, yes. There are F-22's at Elmendorf.

There are no nuclear missiles in Alaska.
No Navy bases, no submarine bases. Ohio class SSBN's hold station under the icecap, but they are based out of Bangor.

The Alyeska Pipeline runs from Prudhoe Bay to Valdez, where the oil is put in tankers. No Russian oil has ever been pumped through the pipeline- there is no way to get Russian oil into it the pipeline at the North Slope.

There is a large USCG presence in AK, they are mostly involved in search and rescue operations, and they occasionally interdict Japanese or Russian fishing vessels that violate US waters.

I don't ever recall seeing a USN warship in Alaska- I was born and raised there, and my dad was a commercial fisherman. Spent a good portion of my life in the Gulf of Alaska. I'm from Sitka originally, which was the Capital when it was Russian territory. Most of the islands in SE are named after Russian explorers, as well as many streets, schools, etc.

As a kid I used to dig for old bottles around the Russian fort sites. They were heavy drinkers back then too...

 

[gipper]

NATO doesn't do offensive military operations.
And there are many countries on the Russian border that are members of NATO.....have been for decades....Even during the cold War.
NATO is an agreement/Treaty. Not anything else.

Lithuania, Poland, and etc.

What about East Prussia DEEP inside the EU? Nobody has attacked them....nobody has had plans to. They keep claiming Poland is going to attack but instead Poland gives them the finger and stays away. Poland is a member of NATO but it doesn't speak for all of NATO. And currently there are no plans by NATO to attack at all.

And the USA is Russia's neighbor....has been since Russia sold the USA the territory of Alaska....where the military has all kinds of ABM defenses. Nuclear missiles, submarines, Coast Guard and war ships. Billions in gold and oil are pumped our of Alaska on a yearly basis. Russia has even pumped oil down the Alaskan pipeline itself to get oil to CA.

So your claims are ridiculous

Once again you prove yourself uninformed. STOP POSTING!

NATO has committed several offensive ops in the past few decades. See Serbia and Libya to name just two.

DUMBASS!

 

[JohnDB]

Once again you prove yourself uninformed. STOP POSTING!

NATO has committed several offensive ops in the past few decades. See Serbia and Libya to name just two.

DUMBASS!

Ummmmm
I'm not the one going against the opinion of the WHOLE WORLD whose opinion is different than yours. And yet now you resort to name Calling? Meaning that you don't have any substance to your words or else you would have used them in an intelligent manner....instead you used your words in the most unintelligent manner ERGO....conceding that fact that you are indeed wrong and I'm correct. How nice of you to admit that you are wrong.

 

[JohnDB]

Well now I'm not sure where you get all this John. Yes, the US bought Alaska from Russia in 1867, for the price of 2 cents/acre. It was called "Seward's Folly" at the time.

There are ABM interceptors (GBI) at Ft. Greely, yes. There are F-22's at Elmendorf.

There are no nuclear missiles in Alaska.
No Navy bases, no submarine bases. Ohio class SSBN's hold station under the icecap, but they are based out of Bangor.

The Alyeska Pipeline runs from Prudhoe Bay to Valdez, where the oil is put in tankers. No Russian oil has ever been pumped through the pipeline- there is no way to get Russian oil into it the pipeline at the North Slope.

There is a large USCG presence in AK, they are mostly involved in search and rescue operations, and they occasionally interdict Japanese or Russian fishing vessels that violate US waters.

I don't ever recall seeing a USN warship in Alaska- I was born and raised there, and my dad was a commercial fisherman. Spent a good portion of my life in the Gulf of Alaska. I'm from Sitka originally, which was the Capital when it was Russian territory. Most of the islands in SE are named after Russian explorers, as well as many streets, schools, etc.

As a kid I used to dig for old bottles around the Russian fort sites. They were heavy drinkers back then too...

Those Naval and AF bases are not exactly public. F-16s can carry all kinds of Nuclear warheads and B-52s can carry even more. NM stealth bombers (whitehead afb in Wyoming) stop by there for refueling on their way to Russia.

There us a Naval base in AK....well off the beaten path. There's another in San Diego. The exact locations are "secret" and nobody is supposed to know they exist because they are submarine bases. Usually taking advantage of underwater terrain formations of caves.....but not always. Sometimes they were carved out of rock underwater.

The warships used to be there a lot. Dunno....we kinda are short on seamen lately making those who serve stay at sea for longer terms than ever before.

 

[gipper]

Ummmmm
I'm not the one going against the opinion of the WHOLE WORLD whose opinion is different than yours. And yet now you resort to name Calling? Meaning that you don't have any substance to your words or else you would have used them in an intelligent manner....instead you used your words in the most unintelligent manner ERGO....conceding that fact that you are indeed wrong and I'm correct. How nice of you to admit that you are wrong.

Your crazed warmongering beliefs are not held by the WHOLE WORLD. LOL. Thinking this once again proves you to be a fool.

In fact, most of the world opposes the USG provoking and continuing the war. This would be clear to you if you would get informed.

 

[gipper]

Ummmmm
I'm not the one going against the opinion of the WHOLE WORLD whose opinion is different than yours. And yet now you resort to name Calling? Meaning that you don't have any substance to your words or else you would have used them in an intelligent manner....instead you used your words in the most unintelligent manner ERGO....conceding that fact that you are indeed wrong and I'm correct. How nice of you to admit that you are wrong.

Hey look! The Chinese are trying to take over the world! Lol.

 

[krichton]

Are you unaware many NATO nations have provided billions in military aid to Ukraine? Are you unaware Ukraine sought NATO membership? Are you unaware the Minsk talks were a delaying tactic?

Russia has stated clearly for 30 years do not expand NATO to our border. Are you also unaware of this? Are you unaware of NATO’s OFFENSIVE military operations in the past 30 years?

Why post propaganda straight from the desks of state run media? Can’t you think for yourself?

I can ask the same, since all you've done is post one kremlin talking point after another. Do you have a manual that they give you?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I'm a Dupe of simple geography.
I've been within rock throwing distance of Russia while on a fishing boat in Alaska....I've personally seen the military bases, submarines, battleships, and Coast Guard.

Russia thinks that one more nation is going to make a difference? They are surrounded by nuclear missiles now on both sides. Ukraine is a "nothing". The Russian excuses are just that....excuses and wanting to STEAL Ukranians resources.

Cold-War Nostalgia

From your command post
In an igloo
You will turn Russian pilots
Into MiG-glue

 

[gipper]

I can ask the same, since all you've done is post one kremlin talking point after another. Do you have a manual that they give you?

Yeah we must all believe the USG and the establishment media because they’d never lie. We must call all who oppose the State supporters of Russia. Heil Hitler!

Apparently you’ve learned nothing these past 60 years.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Remembering Russia's Victory Day

The ice skater can be skipped several minutes into the video.
CIA in Ukraine


Harro Shulze-Boysen, member of Rote Kapelle (Red Orchestra) and the Luftwaffe, relayed information to Trepper:

'Trepper sent detailed dispatches to Moscow giving the exact number of German divisions being withdrawn from the west to the east. During the first week of May 1941 he also learned of the proposed date on which the invasion would be launched, 15 May, which was later revised to 22 Jun.

The 'Centre' was also receiving accurate warnings of the German intentions from the British and American Governments, the Berlin apparat and the Die Rote Drei circuit in Switzerland, and from Richard Sorge, a GRU agent in Japan. Yet Stalin chose to ignore the warnings.'
(Tarrant VE, The Red Orchestra: The Soviet Spy Network Inside Nazi Europe, p. 131)

Agnes Smedley, born in Missouri, links to Richard Sorge. Members of the Red Orchestra included Mildred Harnack, born in Wisconsin.

Draw Play

That is logical proof that Stalin wanted the invasion and the collapse of his throwaway frontline forces in order to sucker Hitler into overextending himself, the Nazi nut being fooled into thinking he had another quick victory like the six-week blitzkrieg in France. It was totally uncharacteristic of Stalin to not be paranoiac about the invasion. Therefore, he ignored and suppressed the warnings only because he wanted it to happen. He judged Hitler's Master Race over-confidence correctly.

He had also intentionally provoked the invasion by making ridiculous demands for Mideast oil, knowing that Hitler would believe he was that
much of a loose cannon. This was mentioned in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, but the author didn't realize what should have been the obvious truth about what Stalin was really doing.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Hey look! The Chinese are trying to take over the world! Lol.
View attachment 784254

The Far East Is Not the World

We have no business interfering in China's natural Sphere of Influence. Let those threatened countries form an alliance against that, instead of being parasites eating away at America's blood and treasure. We can sell all those wealthy freeloaders weapons, but there's no self-defense reason for us to pay for their defense.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I can ask the same, since all you've done is post one kremlin talking point after another. Do you have a manual that they give you?

The I in CIA Stands Only for Ego

Can I borrow yours? I'm sure it was written by the CIA, so I can trust them to tell us exactly what the Russians are planning.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Remembering Russia's Victory Day…

Harro Shulze-Boysen, member of Rote Kapelle (Red Orchestra) and the Luftwaffe, relayed information to Trepper:

'Trepper sent detailed dispatches to Moscow giving the exact number of German divisions being withdrawn from the west to the east. During the first week of May 1941 he also learned of the proposed date on which the invasion would be launched, 15 May, which was later revised to 22 Jun.

The 'Centre' was also receiving accurate warnings of the German intentions from the British and American Governments, the Berlin apparat and the Die Rote Drei circuit in Switzerland, and from Richard Sorge, a GRU agent in Japan. Yet Stalin chose to ignore the warnings.'
(Tarrant VE, The Red Orchestra: The Soviet Spy Network Inside Nazi Europe, p. 131)

Agnes Smedley, born in Missouri, links to Richard Sorge. Members of the Red Orchestra included Mildred Harnack, born in Wisconsin.

.

Draw Play

That is logical proof that Stalin wanted the invasion and the collapse of his throwaway frontline forces in order to sucker Hitler into overextending himself, the Nazi nut being fooled into thinking he had another quick victory like the six-week blitzkrieg in France. It was totally uncharacteristic of Stalin to not be paranoiac about the invasion. Therefore, he ignored and suppressed the warnings only because he wanted it to happen. He judged Hitler's Master Race over-confidence correctly.

He had also intentionally provoked the invasion by making ridiculous demands for Mideast oil, knowing that Hitler would believe he was that
much of a loose cannon. This was mentioned in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, but the author didn't realize what should have been the obvious truth about what Stalin was really doing.

I read Leopold Trepper’s own book “Red Orchestra” and others about him. Also I read Shirer’s very well written but not very scholarly or reliable “Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.” Trepper was the brilliant head Soviet spy who gathered and transmitted via radio (The Red Orchestra) the information mentioned above. He managed to infiltrate top echelons of the German military, providing luxury goods from black markets all over Europe. So successful was he that he was a personal guest riding in a top German General’s staff car at the Battle Of Dunkirk. Trepper built and led much of Soviet intelligence in Europe after the CPs, the Socialist Parties and the democratic, Constitutionist and even liberal Christian parties were destroyed before and during the war.

Nowhere does he ever indicate he believed Stalin was intentionally ignoring his and Sorge’s information intentionally to sucker Hitler into attacking Russia, or for any reason besides that Stalin had too much faith that his alliance with fellow dictator Hitler would last another crucial year or so, while he could build up Soviet military industry and hopefully watch the West and Nazi Germany fight each other.

Stalin was stubbornly convinced the warnings he was given were false, or even originated from Western “disinformation” sources. Stalin was paranoid, of course, but he became absolutely hysterical and was completely surprised and even for awhile disfunctional after Hitler launched his attack on Russia.

Trepper himself ended up barely escaping a sentence to Siberia for protesting vehemently to “the Centre” after the war (he was captured by the Nazis but his captors knew the war was going poorly and they kept him alive to make a deal later for their own survival). Richard Sorge was caught and murdered in Japan.

Trepper was finally given an Order Of Lenin (iirc) and moved back to his native Poland, but became disillusioned by Communism in power. Also, he was Jewish (though fluent in many languages and passing as a good German businessmen during the war) and he hated the anti-Semitic Polish reality he found so prevalent after the war ended, even among Polish Communists. He managed to get out of Poland and ended up in Israel, a reformed liberal Zionist — which is how he started out as a teenager so many decades before.

I mention this because there are too many conspiracy thinkers these days, and some here apparently see not only Putin but even Stalin as … political and military “geniuses.”

 

[badger2]

.



I read Leopold Trepper’s own book “Red Orchestra” and others about him. Trepper was the brilliant head Soviet spy who gathered and transmitted the information mentioned. He was a guest riding in a top general’s staff car at the Battle Of Dunkirk and built and led much of Soviet intelligence in Europe during the war.

Nowhere does he ever indicate he believed Stalin was intentionally ignoring his and Sorge’s information for any reason besides that Stalin had too much faith that his alliance with fellow dictator Hitler would last another crucial year or so, while he could build up Soviet military industry. Stalin just stubbornly was convinced the warnings he was given were false, or even originated from Western sources. Stalin was paranoid, and absolutely hysterical and completely surprised when Hitler launched his attack.

Trepper himself ended up barely escaping a sentence to Siberia for protesting vehemently to “the Centre” after the war (he was captured by the Nazis but his captors knew the war was going poorly and they kept him alive to make a deal for their own survival). Sorge was caught and murdered in Japan. Trepper was finally given an Order Of Lenin Award (iirc) and moved back to his native Poland, but became disillusioned by Communism in power. Also, he was Jewish (though fluent in many languages and passing as a good German businessmen during the war) and he hated the anti-Semitic Polish reality he found so prevalent after the war ended, even among Polish Communists. He managed to get out of Poland and ended up in Israel, a reformed liberal Zionist — which is how he started out as a teenager so many decades before.

I mention this because there are too many conspiracy thinkers these days, and some here apparently see not only Putin but also Stalin as … “geniuses”

Thanks for this. Lori Spencer's Twitter page (above), starts out with CIA's Operation Belladonna, though it's likely not early enough to grasp CIA connections in Ukraine. The true chron is more opaque.

Here's more on Trepper from Tarrant:

'The Grand Chef - alias Jean Gilbert - was a Polish Jew called Leopold Trepper. He was born on 23 Feb 1904 in Novy-Targ, a small town of some 3,000 inhabitants near Zakopane, which is situated close to the present-day Polish-Slovakian border. His parents were poor, debt-ridden Jews eking out a living by running a small shop at No. 5 Sobieski Street.
....
As a reaction to the anti-semitism of the right-wing Pilsudski dictatorship which ruled poland after the First World War, he joined the Jewish youth movement, the Hashomer Hatzair - a Zionist inspired organization which proposed to find a definitive solution to the destiny of the Jewish people in Palestine.
....
Hunger and poverty followed Trepper to the Promised Land....It soon became apparent to Trepper that rich Jewish landowners, who lived very comfortably, were exploiting the newly arrived immigrants and the Arab agricultural workers....From its inception the Communist Party of Palestine, which numbered only a few hundred militants and a few thousand sympathizers, struggled to wean the mass of Jewish workers away from Zionist ideology and win over the Arab population so that Jews and Arabs could unite to lay the foundations of a socialist state.
....
But Trepper quickly discovered that finding work in Palestine (which under British mandate) was virtually impossible for a known or even suspected Communist, and for the remainder of 1925 he was reduced to living in a shack in Tel Aviv which he shared with eight other Communists who included Sophie Poznanska, Leo Grossvogel, and Hillel Katz, all future members of the Red Orchestra. They lived on the idea of revolution and a few tomatoes.'
(Tarrant, op cit pp. 117-18)