Before 1860 secession was considered to be constitutional

[The T]

Article 1 Section 10

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

Article 4 section 2

The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Arti8cle IV section 3



Article IV section 4

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.

Article VI 2nd paragraph

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Amendment 9 and amendment 10 do not grant the right to leave the Union to the States as the previous articles show that once in the Union Congress has supremacy over any state action or law and is specifically charged with protecting the rights of citizens even against States. When all these are taken together they clearly demonstrate that one can only leave the Union by action of Congress.

U.S. Constitution | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

Treaties? Have the STATES made treaties with the FED?

 

[boilermaker55]

I second the motion. And every Federal dollar and agency and anything that has to do with the Federal government leave immediately.
Some people really don't know how to look at reality.

It was and still is Constitutional, states can never be subordinate to an entity they created.

I think that Texas has every right to secede from the United States and should do so posthaste.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Again, the Constitution granted SPECIFICALLY ENUMERATED POWERS NONE OF WHICH AUTHORIZES FEDGOV TO PREVENT SECESSION.

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shall I quote that for you?

Article I section 8 last paragraph

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

Article I | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute.

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Article IV article VI and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal Government.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Article 1 Section 10

No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No state shall, without the consent of the Congress, lay any imposts or duties on imports or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection laws: and the net produce of all duties and imposts, laid by any state on imports or exports, shall be for the use of the treasury of the United States; and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and control of the Congress.

No state shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of tonnage, keep troops, or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with another state, or with a foreign power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent danger as will not admit of delay.

Article 4 section 2



Arti8cle IV section 3



Article IV section 4



Article VI 2nd paragraph

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

Amendment 9 and amendment 10 do not grant the right to leave the Union to the States as the previous articles show that once in the Union Congress has supremacy over any state action or law and is specifically charged with protecting the rights of citizens even against States. When all these are taken together they clearly demonstrate that one can only leave the Union by action of Congress.

U.S. Constitution | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

Treaties? Have the STATES made treaties with the FED?

I guess you missed the AND in the quote.

 

[Contumacious]

shall i quote that for you?

Article i section 8 last paragraph



article i | u.s. Constitution | lii / legal information institute.

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article iv article vi and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal government.

which "foregoing" power specifically authorizes fedgov to prevent secession?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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[The T]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

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article iv article vi and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal government.

which "foregoing" power specifically authorizes fedgov to prevent secession?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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The supremacy clause makes all the other quoted powers supreme. A state may not unilaterally leave the USA. All the listed powers negate any such attempt and require that in order to leave one must get permission from Congress.

 

[The T]

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article iv article vi and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal government.

which "foregoing" power specifically authorizes fedgov to prevent secession?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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none.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Really? Can you prove that by way of actual Constitutional quotes, as opposed to self-serving judicial "interpretations"?

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that to join one must get approval from Congress. Yet it is clearly understood that that is in fact the law. One can assume that if to join requires an act of Congress to leave would also.

Actually, you're mistaken. To become a state of the United States, it is necessary to first be a territory of the United States (I don't know that that's ever been codified into law, but it's simply a practical fact that the United States is not going to accept a petition for statehood from someplace that isn't currently under its control). The Constitution specifically states, in Article IV, that "Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States". This would include accepting the proposed Constitutions of territories wishing to become states.

Which means for certain that a State that was formerly a Territory can't possibly secede, because it was a US possession. It was territory owned by the United States government.

Letting it become a state did not grant it some sort of nationhood, or independence. Letting it become a state meant that it remained part of the US, but under a different status.

Any attempt by a state that was a former territory to secede, i.e., to give up its statehood, would simply cause it to revert to being a territory once again.

 

[The T]

Article 1 Section 10



Article 4 section 2



Arti8cle IV section 3



Article IV section 4



Article VI 2nd paragraph



Amendment 9 and amendment 10 do not grant the right to leave the Union to the States as the previous articles show that once in the Union Congress has supremacy over any state action or law and is specifically charged with protecting the rights of citizens even against States. When all these are taken together they clearly demonstrate that one can only leave the Union by action of Congress.

U.S. Constitution | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

Treaties? Have the STATES made treaties with the FED?

I guess you missed the AND in the quote.

Sorry Dude. The FED has and has been in progress of Breach of contract.

 

[Contumacious]

nowhere in the constitution does it say that to join one must get approval from congress. Yet it is clearly understood that that is in fact the law. One can assume that if to join requires an act of congress to leave would also.

actually, you're mistaken. To become a state of the united states, it is necessary to first be a territory of the united states (i don't know that that's ever been codified into law, but it's simply a practical fact that the united states is not going to accept a petition for statehood from someplace that isn't currently under its control). The constitution specifically states, in article iv, that "congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the united states". This would include accepting the proposed constitutions of territories wishing to become states.

which means for certain that a state that was formerly a territory can't possibly secede, because it was a us possession. It was territory owned by the united states government.

Letting it become a state did not grant it some sort of nationhood, or independence. Letting it become a state meant that it remained part of the us, but under a different status.

Any attempt by a state that was a former territory to secede, i.e., to give up its statehood, would simply cause it to revert to being a territory once again.

new states were admitted under the same guidelines as original states.

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[RetiredGySgt]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

 

[The T]

shall I quote that for you?

Article I section 8 last paragraph



Article I | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute.

.

Article IV article VI and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal Government.

But does it give the FED Sole authority? NO it does not.

 

[The T]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

Who the HELL is talking North and SOUTH?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

Who the HELL is talking North and SOUTH?

That is what this discussion is about, the Civil War.

 

[The T]

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

Who the HELL is talking North and SOUTH?

That is what this discussion is about, the Civil War.

Any State, regardless of geographic position...

 

[Contumacious]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

Well, OBVIOUSLY their SOVEREIGNTY was impinged upon, they fucking left.

Again the NORTHERN states ratified the COMPACT knowing that their SOuthern counterparts allowed slavery.

SO what's the big fucking deal.

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[Gadawg73]

Before 1880 abortion was legal in this country.
What else is new?

 

[NYcarbineer]

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article iv article vi and all the other cited articles grant powers to the federal government.

which "foregoing" power specifically authorizes fedgov to prevent secession?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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The power to enforce federal law to which all states and their residents are under the jurisdiction of.

You don't get to unilaterally proclaim yourself immune to the law, and have the law behind your proclamation,

in any jurisdiction. It's an insane notion on its face.

 

[The T]

The States HAVE the ABSOLUTE RIGHT to secede if the FEDERAL Government on whole has impeded the sovereignty of the States as implied in the Ninth and Tenth. It IS A BREACH OF CONTRACT.

Or did they give that UP with the implementation of the 17th? NO.

At no time did the USA impede the sovereignty of the Southern States , in fact they left because they thought no more Slave States would be admitted to the Union and that eventually their power in Congress would let the majority change the Constitution to outlaw slavery. In 1861 the Southern States were the ones that got special treatment from the Constitution.

Well, OBVIOUSLY their SOVEREIGNTY was impinged upon, they fucking left.

Again the NORTHERN states ratified the COMPACT knowing that their SOuthern counterparts allowed slavery.

SO what's the big fucking deal.

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And the FED now IMPOSES the NEW SLAVERY upon ALL STATES been in progress for over 100 years...They seek to stifle the 9th and 10th...