Bernie Sanders: We Will Raise Taxes On Anyone Making Over $29,000 To Fund Government Health Care

[pknopp]

That's right, rather than address my point get triggered and call me names.

Typical.

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

Do you think any politician would ever get elected on running on ending Medicare?

I would vote for anybody that ran on that platform.

You would be an idiot if you didn't also vote for him/her.

It takes courage to do the right thing and undo government screw ups. Too bad we don't have very many politicians with courage. Those same gutless assholes are the ones that you stupid Moon Bats want to run your health care. Then you wonder why we ridicule you so much.

Medicare is one of the most successful programs in the whole country, with admin costs less than 10% that of private health care. The only reason Medicare is not better is that it does not hire its own doctors and nurses directly, like the VA does, and would be even more efficient.

Medicare to go broke three years earlier than expected ...

https://www.politico.com › 2018/06/05 › medicare-outlook-2026-625908
Jun 5, 2018 - Medicare's hospital trust fund is expected to run out of money in 2026, three years earlier than previously projected, the program's trustees said ...

If the military isn't going to go broke, Medicare isn't either.

 

[flack]

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

Do you think any politician would ever get elected on running on ending Medicare?

I would vote for anybody that ran on that platform.

You would be an idiot if you didn't also vote for him/her.

It takes courage to do the right thing and undo government screw ups. Too bad we don't have very many politicians with courage. Those same gutless assholes are the ones that you stupid Moon Bats want to run your health care. Then you wonder why we ridicule you so much.

Medicare is one of the most successful programs in the whole country, with admin costs less than 10% that of private health care. The only reason Medicare is not better is that it does not hire its own doctors and nurses directly, like the VA does, and would be even more efficient.

Medicare to go broke three years earlier than expected ...

https://www.politico.com › 2018/06/05 › medicare-outlook-2026-625908
Jun 5, 2018 - Medicare's hospital trust fund is expected to run out of money in 2026, three years earlier than previously projected, the program's trustees said ...

If the military isn't going to go broke, Medicare isn't either.

The military is in the constitution. Medicare is not.

 

[pknopp]

I consider it another one of your diversions. Health Insurance Inflation

You ignoring that everything has gone up but only condemning it one area is the one doing the diverting.

Did Obamacare address any portion of costs? No, it was a total failure and a sell out to wall street.

Inflation is not the cause of increased health care costs.
Health care costs are rising at over twice the rate of inflation.
Health care costs are rising due to insurance companies deliberately creating prepaid medical monopolies that prevent people from being able to shop around and get reasonable prices.

That's only part of the root cause (and a small part of it), the majority of the price increase goes back to good old SUPPLY AND DEMAND, namely supply isn't keeping up with accelerating demand, in part because the consumer has been decoupled from the COST (leading to over consumption) and in part because the citizenry is FAT, SICK AND NEARLY DEAD due to poor lifestyle choices (diet and exercise).

If we keep going the way we're going with our lifestyle choices, health care costs due to treatment of chronic diseases and lost productivity will be so high that the nation will be bankrupt no matter what "system" of health insurance we adopt.

Regardless of whether the 3rd party decoupled the consumer of the costs and consequences of their life style, or whether it decoupled them from being able to contest pricing or quality of services, clearly 3rd party, prepaid, health care, has totally and completely failed.
It is not working and can not be fixed without getting rid ot the third party.
And the third party is the insurance company, which adds nothing and greatly takes away.
It is not even the profits they skim that is the worst, but the vast overhead they add in administrative costs for all their required paperwork for claims.

Likely we should switch from a pre-paid system of premiums, to where government underwrites guarantees medical loans you post pay, after you get medical services. That way payments could be based on ability to pay and people below poverty level have their medical loans forgiven.

You're missing the point... it CANNOT be "fixed" by changing who pays and how the bills get paid, it can only be fixed by altering the trajectory of the demand for health care services which involves Americans changing their eating and exercise habits (aka lifestyle) along with re-coupling consumption with actual COST of consumption.

If you don't fix the root causes of accelerating demand our health care costs coupled with the loss of productivity brought about by chronic disease will BANKRUPT the United States and effectively destroy the productive economy.

All this BS about bickering over who handles insurance and what "system" we should adopt is just an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

We are 23 Trillion in debt. When do we hit bankruptcy? If we do not have to pay for bombs and bailouts, why do we have to pay for healthcare?

 

[Rigby5]

Everything has skyrocketed. Trucks are now $60-$80k in many cases. What do you consider that?

You are really dumb Moon Bat, aren't you? Either that or confused about everything, which is evident.

Of course pathetic little Moon Bats like you don't worry about cost because you want the government to control health care so you can get it for free. You are a greedy Moon Bat that thinks you are entitled to free health care simply because you are alive and the government will give it to you.

I have a much better idea than the fucking government doing health care. I'll provide for my own health care and you provide for yours and we leave the corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it. How does that sound Sport?

That's right, rather than address my point get triggered and call me names.

Typical.

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

First of all, anyone claiming that single payer or public health care takes control of anyone's health care, is just lying.
The whole rest of the civilized world has single payer or public health care, and no where has government taken control.
You can still buy whatever private health care you want in any nation.
All public or single payer does is provide a minimal medical safety net, to break private monopoly and ensure there is at least SOME competition, to bring down prices.

Bullshit. No wonder you Moon Bats are so confused.

When you have the filthy government take your money and then decide how they are going to pay it out for your health care then that is sure as hell taking control of your health care.

We see the destructiveness of that in these stupid countries that have nationalized medicine. We see the government making priorities on who gets health care and what kind of health care they get. It is not the patient that makes the decision but the government bueracrats that control the payoff.

Dispicable!

Never put your well being in the hands of government bureaucrats whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest. You will get screwed. Even if you are sorry ass welfare queen getting free shit that somebody else has to pay for.

Nonsense.
You allow private insurance companies now to force you to pay ahead of time, and then decide if they are going to pay now, without you having any say or vote at all. At least with government, it is not out for profit and you get to vote.

There are no countries with public health care where access is worse than the US.
They are all better than the US, where over 100,000 people die each year from medical malpractice.

When you have private health insurance, the patient gets to make NO decisions at all, because you have PREPAID!

 

[pknopp]

Do you think any politician would ever get elected on running on ending Medicare?

I would vote for anybody that ran on that platform.

You would be an idiot if you didn't also vote for him/her.

It takes courage to do the right thing and undo government screw ups. Too bad we don't have very many politicians with courage. Those same gutless assholes are the ones that you stupid Moon Bats want to run your health care. Then you wonder why we ridicule you so much.

Medicare is one of the most successful programs in the whole country, with admin costs less than 10% that of private health care. The only reason Medicare is not better is that it does not hire its own doctors and nurses directly, like the VA does, and would be even more efficient.

Medicare to go broke three years earlier than expected ...

https://www.politico.com › 2018/06/05 › medicare-outlook-2026-625908
Jun 5, 2018 - Medicare's hospital trust fund is expected to run out of money in 2026, three years earlier than previously projected, the program's trustees said ...

If the military isn't going to go broke, Medicare isn't either.

The military is in the constitution. Medicare is not.

Irrelevant to my point. There is nothing in the Constitution that covers what we are doing with the military at that. The founders actually warned us against what we are doing so your point isn't even valid .

 

[NightFox]

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

Do you think any politician would ever get elected on running on ending Medicare?

I would vote for anybody that ran on that platform.

You would be an idiot if you didn't also vote for him/her.

It takes courage to do the right thing and undo government screw ups. Too bad we don't have very many politicians with courage. Those same gutless assholes are the ones that you stupid Moon Bats want to run your health care. Then you wonder why we ridicule you so much.

Medicare is one of the most successful programs in the whole country, with admin costs less than 10% that of private health care. The only reason Medicare is not better is that it does not hire its own doctors and nurses directly, like the VA does, and would be even more efficient.

Medicare to go broke three years earlier than expected ...

https://www.politico.com › 2018/06/05 › medicare-outlook-2026-625908
Jun 5, 2018 - Medicare's hospital trust fund is expected to run out of money in 2026, three years earlier than previously projected, the program's trustees said ...

If the military isn't going to go broke, Medicare isn't either.

Bad news Buckwheat.. they're both going to go broke unless the way government operations are conducted drastically changes for the better.

Contrary to popular delusion resources aren't infinite, even in the good ole US of A.

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." -- Herbert Stein

 

[dblack]

Nonsense.
You allow private insurance companies now to force you to ...

Lemme stop you right there. Private insurance companies can't force you to do a goddamned thing. Government can. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

If government took over and didn't pay the doctors what they are getting paid today, we would end up with a huge doctor shortage. You don't go to school for years and years, only to make five figures when it's all said and done.

Doctors make more money under public health care than they do under private insurance.
That is because over half the current overhead for running a medical practice is hiring the huge staff needed to fill out all the insurance paperwork. We are talking about tens of billions wasted.
Also the corporate layers currently skimming are removed, such as the insurance companies and the large medical corporations that have bought up all the medical providers, into monopolies.

Without insurance companies dictating which doctors you have to see, then you have a wider range of choice, so you need fewer doctors and can just keep them more busy.

Another advantage of public health care that people do not realize, is that private insurance often is not taken by out of state providers or in other countries. Travelers do not realize they are not covered at all. And all those prepaid insurance premiums are useless and lost if you change jobs.

Wrong. Providers and doctors are paid less with government patients; typically they only get 2/3 of what they bill out. That's why some are refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. It's also why when you see medical facilities close down, it's in lower income neighborhoods where most of the patients are government patients. There is nowhere to recoup those losses.

So how do they recover that lost money? Simple, they increase prices, and private insurance ends up paying the loss. Government is part of the reason insurance premiums keep going up. We baby boomers are retiring.

So what happens with Medicare for All? The same thing that happened in those lower income areas.

Survey: More doctors report they cannot afford to take new Medicaid, Medicare patients

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

 

[pknopp]

Do you think any politician would ever get elected on running on ending Medicare?

I would vote for anybody that ran on that platform.

You would be an idiot if you didn't also vote for him/her.

It takes courage to do the right thing and undo government screw ups. Too bad we don't have very many politicians with courage. Those same gutless assholes are the ones that you stupid Moon Bats want to run your health care. Then you wonder why we ridicule you so much.

Medicare is one of the most successful programs in the whole country, with admin costs less than 10% that of private health care. The only reason Medicare is not better is that it does not hire its own doctors and nurses directly, like the VA does, and would be even more efficient.

Medicare to go broke three years earlier than expected ...

https://www.politico.com › 2018/06/05 › medicare-outlook-2026-625908
Jun 5, 2018 - Medicare's hospital trust fund is expected to run out of money in 2026, three years earlier than previously projected, the program's trustees said ...

If the military isn't going to go broke, Medicare isn't either.

Bad news Buckwheat.. they're both going to go broke unless the way government operations are conducted drastically changes for the better.

Contrary to popular delusion resources aren't infinite, even in the good ole US of A.

"If something cannot go on forever, it will stop." -- Herbert Stein

I see no one demanding higher taxes to pay down the 23 Trillion. If we are going to go down I would prefer doing it by helping people as opposed to needlessly blowing people up.

 

[jknowgood]

You might pay more in taxes, but you would pay $20,000 a year less for health insurance.

Health Insurance Costs Surpass $20,000 Per Year, Hitting a Record

So Obama care is a failure?

 

[pknopp]

Put your healthcare in the hands of government bueracrats that don't give a shit about you, whose bosses are corrupt politicians elected by special interest groups. It will also cause your taxes to sky rocket. What could possible go wrong?

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

If government took over and didn't pay the doctors what they are getting paid today, we would end up with a huge doctor shortage. You don't go to school for years and years, only to make five figures when it's all said and done.

Doctors make more money under public health care than they do under private insurance.
That is because over half the current overhead for running a medical practice is hiring the huge staff needed to fill out all the insurance paperwork. We are talking about tens of billions wasted.
Also the corporate layers currently skimming are removed, such as the insurance companies and the large medical corporations that have bought up all the medical providers, into monopolies.

Without insurance companies dictating which doctors you have to see, then you have a wider range of choice, so you need fewer doctors and can just keep them more busy.

Another advantage of public health care that people do not realize, is that private insurance often is not taken by out of state providers or in other countries. Travelers do not realize they are not covered at all. And all those prepaid insurance premiums are useless and lost if you change jobs.

Wrong. Providers and doctors are paid less with government patients; typically they only get 2/3 of what they bill out. That's why some are refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. It's also why when you see medical facilities close down, it's in lower income neighborhoods where most of the patients are government patients. There is nowhere to recoup those losses.

So how do they recover that lost money? Simple, they increase prices, and private insurance ends up paying the loss. Government is part of the reason insurance premiums keep going up. We baby boomers are retiring.

So what happens with Medicare for All? The same thing that happened in those lower income areas.

Survey: More doctors report they cannot afford to take new Medicaid, Medicare patients

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

Insurance only pays a fraction of the bill also.

 

[pknopp]

You might pay more in taxes, but you would pay $20,000 a year less for health insurance.

Health Insurance Costs Surpass $20,000 Per Year, Hitting a Record

So Obama care is a failure?

From day 1.

 

[Rigby5]

That's right, rather than address my point get triggered and call me names.

Typical.

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

First of all, anyone claiming that single payer or public health care takes control of anyone's health care, is just lying.
The whole rest of the civilized world has single payer or public health care, and no where has government taken control.
You can still buy whatever private health care you want in any nation.
All public or single payer does is provide a minimal medical safety net, to break private monopoly and ensure there is at least SOME competition, to bring down prices.

You could do the same thing by allowing hospitals and doctors to advertise their prices and services. Paying cash, by allowing Health Savings Accounts, is another way to lower cost.

The best way to lower cost is simply to get the government out of the business of regulating health care and let the market establish the price.

I trust a company trying to put out a quality product at a competitive cost in a competitive market a lot more than I trust a government bureaucrat with my health care.

Absolutely

Ridiculous.
Without government regulation, everything since the Industrial Revolution would be a monopoly you could not afford unless you were very wealthy.
It would be a return to feudalism, with company towns and private security armies like Pinkerton busting heads of anyone trying to do anything like form a union.
Do you not understand that unregulated capitalism always reverts to feudalism and slavery?

 

[NightFox]

We are 23 Trillion in debt. When do we hit bankruptcy? If we do not have to pay for bombs and bailouts, why do we have to pay for healthcare?

When the world wakes up, looks behind the curtain and realizes that our currency and thus our promises aren't worth anything and the dollar returns to its intrinsic value.

If you're wondering what that looks like, check out Venezuela or the Wiemar Republic.

 

[Rigby5]

You are really dumb Moon Bat, aren't you? Either that or confused about everything, which is evident.

Of course pathetic little Moon Bats like you don't worry about cost because you want the government to control health care so you can get it for free. You are a greedy Moon Bat that thinks you are entitled to free health care simply because you are alive and the government will give it to you.

I have a much better idea than the fucking government doing health care. I'll provide for my own health care and you provide for yours and we leave the corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it. How does that sound Sport?

That's right, rather than address my point get triggered and call me names.

Typical.

You should be called names because you are confuses about this big time. You don't get a pass when you take idiotic positions. It doesn't get any more idiotic than advocating that the fucking government control our health care.

I did answer your confusion by saying that the right thing to do is for you pay for your health care and I pay for mine and we leave the worthless corrupt bloated oppressive government out of it.

First of all, anyone claiming that single payer or public health care takes control of anyone's health care, is just lying.
The whole rest of the civilized world has single payer or public health care, and no where has government taken control.
You can still buy whatever private health care you want in any nation.
All public or single payer does is provide a minimal medical safety net, to break private monopoly and ensure there is at least SOME competition, to bring down prices.

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

Fat in Japan? You're breaking the law.

Don't say it can't happen here.

I'm not against the idea of those who don't take care of themselves paying more.

But you need fair rules for any price discrimination, not just because the company wants more profits.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Liberal morons think the same people that can’t get homeless people in shipping container houses for less than 600k a unit are going to get them cheaper healthcare.

Fricken idiots.

That is just a lie.
The shipping container tiny home route is working fine and costs less than $20k per unit.

Tiny Home Village

Government is running Medicare and the VA now, at administrative costs about only 10% of what insurance companies and medical provider corporations charge.
One of the main reasons for this is that currently, tens of billions are wasted on all the insurance form paperwork and the admin expertise on how to fill it all out.

Not in California
Letter: $600,000? For a container house? – The Mercury News

Not according to the Mercury New's own articles.

San Jose: Controversial affordable housing development stalls

{...
“Over the past several years, development plans for the site have started and stopped due to several factors, including visioning for the site, community engagement and financing,” housing director Jacky Morales-Ferrand wrote in a new memo to the City Council. “After numerous attempts by the nonprofit developer, Allied Housing, to secure construction financing for a proposed development of 61 apartments using modular construction, Allied Housing was unable to secure construction financing.”

According to the memo, lenders were wary of investing in a development slated to include repurposed shipping containers.
...
The news comes as rents and home prices in San Jose soar out of reach for many residents, and makes more challenging a commitment Mayor Sam Liccardo made a couple of years ago to add 10,000 affordable units in the next several years. It also comes as the city and county face a growing homelessness crisis. According to the latest figures, more than 6,000 San Jose residents are homeless, up from around 4,350 two years ago.

Since 2002, San Jose has poured nearly $11 million into purchasing and preparing the site for development, and the city — along with Santa Clara County and the Santa Clara County Housing Authority — had committed millions more to the project.
...}

The number of units is unclear, ranging from 61 to 10,000.
But at worst case scenario, that is only $180k per unit, not $600k as you are claiming.
And while that is high, it is not unreasonable for CA, land development, utilities, etc.

Do you even listen to yourself? Let’s use your numbers here. This is what you consider a success.

After 17 years and 11 million dollars no units are built.

After all that time and money they aren’t even sure how many they’re building. Somewhere between 61 and 10,000. Who the hell knows.

And now my favorite... best case scenario it’s ONLY 180 thousand for... a shipping container. A fucking shipping container!

And you think these retards are going to run healthcare for an entire nation. They can’t even house 61 homeless people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Absolutely not. That's why you should never cater to these people. If government stayed out of it, and left banks to make their own lending rules, those people would have never had the opportunity to buy a home in the first place. Yes, they would have continued to cry and charge racism, but in the end, it would have served them better.

The government got involved by trying to lure those people to buy houses for political advantage. What they really ended up doing is screwing those people.

Minorities' Home Ownership Booms Under Clinton but Still Lags Whites'

The banks were indeed also culpable for what went on. See, I don't try and hide the government's involvement here unlike you and others do with the banks.

So how did we address the mess? We kicked people out of their houses, sometimes illegally, sometimes people who could have stayed but then gave banks billions.

The loans were mostly paid back.

The banks? At least we are no longer claiming they were all paid back.

They were paid back in part with other government programs that were never paid back. (HARP)

They were paid back in part with other government programs that were never paid back. (HARP)

HARP was a give away to home owners.
Who was supposed to pay it back?

No, HARP was no giveaway.
Home owners paid just as much as before, but just slowed down foreclosures, so that banks would not get stuck with lots of worthless real estate they could not sell and therefore had no money to loan out.
HARP was to help banks, not homeowners.

No, HARP was no giveaway.

Was money paid out? <<<yes
Was the money paid back? <<<no

Yup. That's a giveaway.

Home owners paid just as much as before,

They had a lower rate but paid just as much?
I'm not sure you understand how mortgages work.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Another ignorant fucking Trumpette.

The government is the payer,. YOU choose where to get your care from PRIVATE doctors in PRIVATE institutions.

Still making the doctors employees of the state. In other words slaves. You want to enslave an entire profession so you can get something for free.

If government took over and didn't pay the doctors what they are getting paid today, we would end up with a huge doctor shortage. You don't go to school for years and years, only to make five figures when it's all said and done.

Doctors make more money under public health care than they do under private insurance.
That is because over half the current overhead for running a medical practice is hiring the huge staff needed to fill out all the insurance paperwork. We are talking about tens of billions wasted.
Also the corporate layers currently skimming are removed, such as the insurance companies and the large medical corporations that have bought up all the medical providers, into monopolies.

Without insurance companies dictating which doctors you have to see, then you have a wider range of choice, so you need fewer doctors and can just keep them more busy.

Another advantage of public health care that people do not realize, is that private insurance often is not taken by out of state providers or in other countries. Travelers do not realize they are not covered at all. And all those prepaid insurance premiums are useless and lost if you change jobs.

Wrong. Providers and doctors are paid less with government patients; typically they only get 2/3 of what they bill out. That's why some are refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. It's also why when you see medical facilities close down, it's in lower income neighborhoods where most of the patients are government patients. There is nowhere to recoup those losses.

So how do they recover that lost money? Simple, they increase prices, and private insurance ends up paying the loss. Government is part of the reason insurance premiums keep going up. We baby boomers are retiring.

So what happens with Medicare for All? The same thing that happened in those lower income areas.

Survey: More doctors report they cannot afford to take new Medicaid, Medicare patients

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

Insurance only pays a fraction of the bill also.

Correct, but working people are more likely to pay the rest than a senior citizen.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The banks were indeed also culpable for what went on. See, I don't try and hide the government's involvement here unlike you and others do with the banks.

So how did we address the mess? We kicked people out of their houses, sometimes illegally, sometimes people who could have stayed but then gave banks billions.

The loans were mostly paid back.

The loans were mostly paid back.

The US Treasury made tens of billions on bank TARP.

No they didn't. We've done this already. Tarp was paid back in large part by Harp. It was all a scam.

You're so dumb.

HARP was about $20 billion.
Bank TARP was $245 billion.

Even a liberal should be able to see the difference.

OK....so it was only a $20 billion dollar scam. There was more to the scam than that also.

So you lied?
Or were you just ignorant?

 

[flack]

You ignoring that everything has gone up but only condemning it one area is the one doing the diverting.

Did Obamacare address any portion of costs? No, it was a total failure and a sell out to wall street.

Inflation is not the cause of increased health care costs.
Health care costs are rising at over twice the rate of inflation.
Health care costs are rising due to insurance companies deliberately creating prepaid medical monopolies that prevent people from being able to shop around and get reasonable prices.

That's only part of the root cause (and a small part of it), the majority of the price increase goes back to good old SUPPLY AND DEMAND, namely supply isn't keeping up with accelerating demand, in part because the consumer has been decoupled from the COST (leading to over consumption) and in part because the citizenry is FAT, SICK AND NEARLY DEAD due to poor lifestyle choices (diet and exercise).

If we keep going the way we're going with our lifestyle choices, health care costs due to treatment of chronic diseases and lost productivity will be so high that the nation will be bankrupt no matter what "system" of health insurance we adopt.

Regardless of whether the 3rd party decoupled the consumer of the costs and consequences of their life style, or whether it decoupled them from being able to contest pricing or quality of services, clearly 3rd party, prepaid, health care, has totally and completely failed.
It is not working and can not be fixed without getting rid ot the third party.
And the third party is the insurance company, which adds nothing and greatly takes away.
It is not even the profits they skim that is the worst, but the vast overhead they add in administrative costs for all their required paperwork for claims.

Likely we should switch from a pre-paid system of premiums, to where government underwrites guarantees medical loans you post pay, after you get medical services. That way payments could be based on ability to pay and people below poverty level have their medical loans forgiven.

You're missing the point... it CANNOT be "fixed" by changing who pays and how the bills get paid, it can only be fixed by altering the trajectory of the demand for health care services which involves Americans changing their eating and exercise habits (aka lifestyle) along with re-coupling consumption with actual COST of consumption.

If you don't fix the root causes of accelerating demand our health care costs coupled with the loss of productivity brought about by chronic disease will BANKRUPT the United States and effectively destroy the productive economy.

All this BS about bickering over who handles insurance and what "system" we should adopt is just an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

We are 23 Trillion in debt. When do we hit bankruptcy? If we do not have to pay for bombs and bailouts, why do we have to pay for healthcare?

Actually with unfunded liabilities it is closer to $130 trillion. Most is inter government debt.