Bernie: "Today the Walton family of Walmart own more wealth than the bottom 40 percent of America."

[Arianrhod]

BTW, bripat9643, I'm enjoying this conversation - thank you!

 

[Agit8r]

"Admitting that any annual sum, say, for instance, one thousand pounds, is necessary or sufficient for the support of a family, consequently the second thousand is of the nature of a luxury, the third still more so, and by proceeding on, we shall at last arrive at a sum that may not improperly be called a prohibitable luxury."
-- Thomas Paine; from Rights of Man, Part the Second (1792)

 

[bripat9643]

Wal-Mart is not "any other big box retailer," whatever "big box retailer" means.

If you don't know what it means, how do you know Walmart isn't one?

do "big box retailers" sell groceries?

Costco and WinCo do. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, WinCo used to be called WinnDixie, but I'd have to check.

Costco is a membership store, and it sells a lot of items that only upscale shoppers would by - stuff like entire slabs of rib-eye steaks. How is does that make it the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? Is Saks 5th Ave also the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? The term "big box retailer" obviously encompasses a wide variety of stores. The theory that they should all pay the same wages is obviously idiotic. Should a Rolls Royce car dealer pay the same wages as a Volkswagon dealer?

You're right about the Costco membership fee, but I guess the inventory varies by region. In cities where I've lived (and that may be the difference - cities, where there are plenty of places to buy groceries within a couple of miles of home, not one store for miles), you can buy ground beef and cold cuts and other low-end stuff in bulk, so it's not all Rolls-Royce level stuff. You can also buy computers, appliances, etc. for about the same price as in a store like Best Buy.

Poor people seldom buy meat in bulk because that requires a large freezer which poor people seldom have the room for. a lot of the computers, TVs and appliances that Costco sells are the high end variety. For example, they sell Kitchen Aid mixers, which are top of the line. Poor people seldom buy this brand of mixer.

As for your analogy between a Rolls and a Volkswagen (and I'm not sure you want to compare Walmart with VW, given the trouble VW's currently in), you seem to be saying the quality of the car = the quality of the person selling it.

I'm not sure I follow. Then again, I don't share Cecelie's "Christian" disdain for my fellow man, and yesterday in another thread was the first time outside of Soylent Green I saw people referred to as "product."

To me, the quality of the merchandise sold at a Walmart or a WinCo is a function of the company owner, not the minimum-wage employee scanning things at the register. If I'm missing something, you'll have to point it out, because I'm not seeing it.

The point is that people who sell expensive things generally earn more money because the places that sell them have much higher margins. Places that sell cheap stuff to poor people have low margins and they can't afford to pay the kind of wages or commissions that a Rolls Royce dealership can pay. Your sanctimonious rant about the quality of the people selling the product will rightly be ignored. Nowhere did I refer to people as product. That's simply your usual strategy of trying to impune the motives of the people who criticize your idiotic ideas.

 

[bripat9643]

"Admitting that any annual sum, say, for instance, one thousand pounds, is necessary or sufficient for the support of a family, consequently the second thousand is of the nature of a luxury, the third still more so, and by proceeding on, we shall at last arrive at a sum that may not improperly be called a prohibitable luxury."
-- Thomas Paine; from Rights of Man, Part the Second (1792)

Paine was a socialist. Why would anyone pay attention to his moronic economic theories?

 

[bripat9643]

Wal-Mart is not "any other big box retailer," whatever "big box retailer" means.

If you don't know what it means, how do you know Walmart isn't one?

do "big box retailers" sell groceries?

Costco and WinCo do. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, WinCo used to be called WinnDixie, but I'd have to check.

Winn-Dixie is still called Winn-Dixie. There's one not more than 2 miles from my house.

 

[RWNJ]

So these folks build a business....
Hire people.....
People shop there and don't seem to have a problem with it.
No one is putting a gun to their heads....

Walmart is a huge success story.....

And Libs have a problem with it.

Why?

View attachment 50627

Seriously? When one family owns more wealth then the bottom 40% of america, there is a problem. This isn't envy.

Let me guess. You want to confiscate all their wealth and give it to the government, so that they can give it to all the welfare losers. Right?

 

[Arianrhod]

If you don't know what it means, how do you know Walmart isn't one?

do "big box retailers" sell groceries?

Costco and WinCo do. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, WinCo used to be called WinnDixie, but I'd have to check.

Costco is a membership store, and it sells a lot of items that only upscale shoppers would by - stuff like entire slabs of rib-eye steaks. How is does that make it the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? Is Saks 5th Ave also the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? The term "big box retailer" obviously encompasses a wide variety of stores. The theory that they should all pay the same wages is obviously idiotic. Should a Rolls Royce car dealer pay the same wages as a Volkswagon dealer?

You're right about the Costco membership fee, but I guess the inventory varies by region. In cities where I've lived (and that may be the difference - cities, where there are plenty of places to buy groceries within a couple of miles of home, not one store for miles), you can buy ground beef and cold cuts and other low-end stuff in bulk, so it's not all Rolls-Royce level stuff. You can also buy computers, appliances, etc. for about the same price as in a store like Best Buy.

Poor people seldom buy meat in bulk because that requires a large freezer which poor people seldom have the room for. a lot of the computers, TVs and appliances that Costco sells are the high end variety. For example, they sell Kitchen Aid mixers, which are top of the line. Poor people seldom buy this brand of mixer.

As for your analogy between a Rolls and a Volkswagen (and I'm not sure you want to compare Walmart with VW, given the trouble VW's currently in), you seem to be saying the quality of the car = the quality of the person selling it.

I'm not sure I follow. Then again, I don't share Cecelie's "Christian" disdain for my fellow man, and yesterday in another thread was the first time outside of Soylent Green I saw people referred to as "product."

To me, the quality of the merchandise sold at a Walmart or a WinCo is a function of the company owner, not the minimum-wage employee scanning things at the register. If I'm missing something, you'll have to point it out, because I'm not seeing it.

The point is that people who sell expensive things generally earn more money because the places that sell them have much higher margins. Places that sell cheap stuff to poor people have low margins and they can't afford to pay the kind of wages or commissions that a Rolls Royce dealership can pay. Your sanctimonious rant about the quality of the people selling the product will rightly be ignored. Nowhere did I refer to people as product. That's simply your usual strategy of trying to impune the motives of the people who criticize your idiotic ideas.

So now you're claiming only poor people shop at Walmart? A number of people in this thread are going to be very surprised to find out you've characterized them as poor.

Anyway, it was nice to discover that you could be civilized for all of five minutes.

 

[Arianrhod]

Almost 1,500 posts, and the main point of that initial quote remains unexplored...

 

[bripat9643]

do "big box retailers" sell groceries?

Costco and WinCo do. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, WinCo used to be called WinnDixie, but I'd have to check.

Costco is a membership store, and it sells a lot of items that only upscale shoppers would by - stuff like entire slabs of rib-eye steaks. How is does that make it the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? Is Saks 5th Ave also the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? The term "big box retailer" obviously encompasses a wide variety of stores. The theory that they should all pay the same wages is obviously idiotic. Should a Rolls Royce car dealer pay the same wages as a Volkswagon dealer?

You're right about the Costco membership fee, but I guess the inventory varies by region. In cities where I've lived (and that may be the difference - cities, where there are plenty of places to buy groceries within a couple of miles of home, not one store for miles), you can buy ground beef and cold cuts and other low-end stuff in bulk, so it's not all Rolls-Royce level stuff. You can also buy computers, appliances, etc. for about the same price as in a store like Best Buy.

Poor people seldom buy meat in bulk because that requires a large freezer which poor people seldom have the room for. a lot of the computers, TVs and appliances that Costco sells are the high end variety. For example, they sell Kitchen Aid mixers, which are top of the line. Poor people seldom buy this brand of mixer.

As for your analogy between a Rolls and a Volkswagen (and I'm not sure you want to compare Walmart with VW, given the trouble VW's currently in), you seem to be saying the quality of the car = the quality of the person selling it.

I'm not sure I follow. Then again, I don't share Cecelie's "Christian" disdain for my fellow man, and yesterday in another thread was the first time outside of Soylent Green I saw people referred to as "product."

To me, the quality of the merchandise sold at a Walmart or a WinCo is a function of the company owner, not the minimum-wage employee scanning things at the register. If I'm missing something, you'll have to point it out, because I'm not seeing it.

The point is that people who sell expensive things generally earn more money because the places that sell them have much higher margins. Places that sell cheap stuff to poor people have low margins and they can't afford to pay the kind of wages or commissions that a Rolls Royce dealership can pay. Your sanctimonious rant about the quality of the people selling the product will rightly be ignored. Nowhere did I refer to people as product. That's simply your usual strategy of trying to impune the motives of the people who criticize your idiotic ideas.

So now you're claiming only poor people shop at Walmart? A number of people in this thread are going to be very surprised to find out you've characterized them as poor.

Anyway, it was nice to discover that you could be civilized for all of five minutes.

Putting words in my mouth seems to be your favorite hobby. Where did I say ONLY poor people shop at Wal-Mart? However, it's indisputable that plenty of poor people shop there. You don't see the same people shopping at Costco.

 

[Rustic]

This is an nonissue....

 

[Arianrhod]

Costco and WinCo do. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, WinCo used to be called WinnDixie, but I'd have to check.

Costco is a membership store, and it sells a lot of items that only upscale shoppers would by - stuff like entire slabs of rib-eye steaks. How is does that make it the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? Is Saks 5th Ave also the same kind of store as Wal-Mart? The term "big box retailer" obviously encompasses a wide variety of stores. The theory that they should all pay the same wages is obviously idiotic. Should a Rolls Royce car dealer pay the same wages as a Volkswagon dealer?

You're right about the Costco membership fee, but I guess the inventory varies by region. In cities where I've lived (and that may be the difference - cities, where there are plenty of places to buy groceries within a couple of miles of home, not one store for miles), you can buy ground beef and cold cuts and other low-end stuff in bulk, so it's not all Rolls-Royce level stuff. You can also buy computers, appliances, etc. for about the same price as in a store like Best Buy.

Poor people seldom buy meat in bulk because that requires a large freezer which poor people seldom have the room for. a lot of the computers, TVs and appliances that Costco sells are the high end variety. For example, they sell Kitchen Aid mixers, which are top of the line. Poor people seldom buy this brand of mixer.

As for your analogy between a Rolls and a Volkswagen (and I'm not sure you want to compare Walmart with VW, given the trouble VW's currently in), you seem to be saying the quality of the car = the quality of the person selling it.

I'm not sure I follow. Then again, I don't share Cecelie's "Christian" disdain for my fellow man, and yesterday in another thread was the first time outside of Soylent Green I saw people referred to as "product."

To me, the quality of the merchandise sold at a Walmart or a WinCo is a function of the company owner, not the minimum-wage employee scanning things at the register. If I'm missing something, you'll have to point it out, because I'm not seeing it.

The point is that people who sell expensive things generally earn more money because the places that sell them have much higher margins. Places that sell cheap stuff to poor people have low margins and they can't afford to pay the kind of wages or commissions that a Rolls Royce dealership can pay. Your sanctimonious rant about the quality of the people selling the product will rightly be ignored. Nowhere did I refer to people as product. That's simply your usual strategy of trying to impune the motives of the people who criticize your idiotic ideas.

So now you're claiming only poor people shop at Walmart? A number of people in this thread are going to be very surprised to find out you've characterized them as poor.

Anyway, it was nice to discover that you could be civilized for all of five minutes.

Putting words in my mouth seems to be your favorite hobby. Where did I say ONLY poor people shop at Wal-Mart? However, it's indisputable that plenty of poor people shop there. You don't see the same people shopping at Costco.

No, you didn't say ONLY, nor did I say you said it. You were apparently too busy asking every customer in every Costco nationwide how much money they earned.

Go play your OUTRAGE song for someone else.

 

[Arianrhod]

This is an nonissue....

You've got other fish to fry, right?

 

[Brain357]

This is an nonissue....

Too much inequality slows an economy, id say we are there now. A slow economy is an issue.

 

[Rustic]

Progressives sure do embrace envy a lot...

 

[Arizona Willie]

Without corporations the workers would be fighting in the streets over food scraps. Workers are free to grow a pair and start their own corporations, have at it.

========

Without workers the Waltons would be unloading trucks and stocking shelves of their ONE store in Mena, Arkansas and they would not be filthy rich.

Corporations need workers just as much as workers need the corporations.

According to theory of capitalism, it is a partnership between capital and labor ... but it has been perverted in America so that all the rewards go to capital and none to labor.

Some, more or less honorable companies have profit sharing and give employees at least a small piece of the profits over and above the wages.

It should be the law that at least 30% of profits go to the workers. Capital would still be handsomely rewarded but so would the workers.

 

[bripat9643]

Without corporations the workers would be fighting in the streets over food scraps. Workers are free to grow a pair and start their own corporations, have at it.

========

Without workers the Waltons would be unloading trucks and stocking shelves of their ONE store in Mena, Arkansas and they would not be filthy rich.

Corporations need workers just as much as workers need the corporations.

According to theory of capitalism, it is a partnership between capital and labor ... but it has been perverted in America so that all the rewards go to capital and none to labor.

Some, more or less honorable companies have profit sharing and give employees at least a small piece of the profits over and above the wages.

It should be the law that at least 30% of profits go to the workers. Capital would still be handsomely rewarded but so would the workers.

What principle of morality is this 30% figure based on? Workers already receive a wage they agreed to. Why should they be entitled to anything more than that?

You can produce no justification for workers recieving any share of the profits other than your hatred of capitalism.

If workers get a share of the profits, do they also take a share of the losses? Aren't they responsible for the losses?

 

[SAYIT]

...You don't wanna pay fellow Americans a decent wage, just shut up and do the work yourself. Problem solved.

Better idea: YOU mind your own fucking business, and don't try to tell other people how much of THEIR money they "have" to pay, or how much or little they can sell their labor for. Problem solved...

Loony leftists can not and will not relinquish their self-anointed right to tell others how they must spend their money.

It's genetic and as we all know, you just can't fix stupid.

 

[SAYIT]

...According to theory of capitalism, it is a partnership between capital and labor ... but it has been perverted in America so that all the rewards go to capital and none to labor...

Wait ... so you are claiming that Walmart employees are forced to work there and are not paid for their labor?

Loony lefties say the silliest things.

 

[Arizona Willie]

Without corporations the workers would be fighting in the streets over food scraps. Workers are free to grow a pair and start their own corporations, have at it.

========

Without workers the Waltons would be unloading trucks and stocking shelves of their ONE store in Mena, Arkansas and they would not be filthy rich.

Corporations need workers just as much as workers need the corporations.

According to theory of capitalism, it is a partnership between capital and labor ... but it has been perverted in America so that all the rewards go to capital and none to labor.

Some, more or less honorable companies have profit sharing and give employees at least a small piece of the profits over and above the wages.

It should be the law that at least 30% of profits go to the workers. Capital would still be handsomely rewarded but so would the workers.

What principle of morality is this 30% figure based on? Workers already receive a wage they agreed to. Why should they be entitled to anything more than that?

You can produce no justification for workers recieving any share of the profits other than your hatred of capitalism.

If workers get a share of the profits, do they also take a share of the losses? Aren't they responsible for the losses?

========
Where did I say anything about morality?

Capitalism, in theory, is a PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN CAPITAL AND LABOR.
But only one side reaps the profits in America. Capital gets 100% of the profits.

Under which principle of YOUR morality does 100% of the profits go to only one side of a partnership?
Yes workers receive wages AND SO DOES MANAGEMENT / OWNERSHIP.

The CEO's and other executives get paid fantastic salaries and BONUSES on top even when the company loses money. They are also, very commonly, large stockholders as well and get profits from their stock ( usually ).

While the workers --- THE OTHER HALF OF THE PARTNERSHIP --- get just enough to stay alive to come back to work the next day. They struggle from paycheck to paycheck.

WHAT KIND OF PARTNERSHIP IS THAT?

Capital gets 100% of the profits and Labor gets ZERO percent of the profits.

Just how far do you think a company would go without employees?

It takes BOTH capital AND labor to have a going concern.

Where is the justice in only ONE PARTNER getting the profits?

BTW I don't hate capitalism --- I hate UNREGULATED CAPITALISM.

And it's defenders.

And, no the workers are usually NOT responsible for the losses. Workers don't decide how thick to make the steel in cars. Workers don't decide how much insulation to put in the attics of homes. Workers don't decide what kind of TV screens to use.

MANAGEMENT MAKES THE DECISIONS THAT LOSE COMPANIES MONEY ... NOT LABOR.

Of course, strictly speaking, management IS labor although they don't think of themselves as such.

But in normal conversation when we say workers we mean the people on the assembly lines or nailing boards to make a home or stocking shelves in the grocery store.

So no the workers don't take a share of the losses because THEY DIDN'T CAUSE THEM...MANAGEMENT DID. And when did you ever see an executive get his pay cut because the company lost money last quarter / year? NEVER ... they even get bonuses when the company loses money but the workers get laid off.

 

[Arizona Willie]

...According to theory of capitalism, it is a partnership between capital and labor ... but it has been perverted in America so that all the rewards go to capital and none to labor...

Wait ... so you are claiming that Walmart employees are forced to work there and are not paid for their labor?

Loony lefties say the silliest things.

========
And righties say the DUMBEST things.