Big freaking ruh roh: Intel Chair pretty sure FBI had no warrant to record Flynn

[Faun]

You mean a government agency acts inappropriately by disclosing information that it has never disclosed before for political gain, even though there is no credible information from the agency, which it later confirms?

Yes, I can understand why you'd be upset over James Comey's FBI revelation of Hillary Clinton's emails.




Oh wait, that's not what you are talking about, is it?

Hot damn.

Well that's the thing. I'm no Hillary fan, but if Comey had knowledge that Team Trump MIGHT have been violating the Logan Act at the same time he went on TV days before the election to say there MIGHT be more Hillary emails ... I think we have a constitutional crisis with the FBI

Stop with the freaking Logan Act. It only applies to unauthorized individuals. And last time I looked Trump and his team were elected.

But not in office yet. There is only one president at a time. But fear not, no one will be charged with violating the Logan act... no one ever is.

Piss off. They were the official transition team and just as every other transition team forever were making contacts with global leaders and businesses.

Making contacts is one thing. Undermining the sitting president is quite another.

 

[owebo]

Officials say the communications were intercepted during routine intelligence collection targeting Russians known to U.S. intelligence. And among those who regularly communicated with Russian nationals, then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn, who resigned his post as Trump’s National Security Advisor Monday night after news reports about a call with Russia’s ambassador regarding U.S. sanctions.

Trump aides were in ‘constant’ contact with Russians

there's your link...

A link form CNN, who is now famous for "fake news". How convenient!

CNN is now relegated to 'very fake news' status......

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

And then they couldn't wait to damage Trump by publicizing it which tipped off the Russians to our surveillance.

Dumb

All over a call that very likely happens with different world leaders by every incoming administration.

Yep, it's so routine that most incoming administrations routinely fire key officials within the first month over something routine.

My post is not a judgement on Trump or Flynn. I have no idea what the truth is and neither do any of you.
What I do know is the left appears to be willing to burn the country to the ground if that's what it takes to make Trump look bad.

So it's something that, " very likely happens with different world leaders by every incoming administration"?

Don't you think you'd have to be incredibly naive to think otherwise?

yes, it would b normal for an incoming admin to make foreign contact....!

That is not the issue at all, the issue is discussing the sanctions with the Russian Ambassador, in a manner that undermined U.S. policy, behind the existing President's and Nation's back which breaks the Logan Act....and then LYING about it, to the VP elect and the Nation.

What's sad, is President Trump probably instructed Flynn to tell the Russians not to over react to the sanctions put on them for the election interference, he would ease them after he is sworn in...and Flynn was just following orders....it appears to me, that President Trump feels bad about letting Flynn take the heat.

Maybe Prsident Trump didn't even know it was against the law? And Flynn neglected to advise him of such? (this is a perfect example of why ''yes men'' should not be hired in an administration)

I think the real issue is President Trumps inexplainable, undying love for Putin and Russia, going against all USA stances and policy for the past half century with no real fathomable explanation....

Is Pres. Trump being blackmailed, do Trump businesses benefit big time? WHAT is in this for our nation, for the USA to take murderous Putin's side with constant praise, and demean our allies such as Australia, Mexico, Germany, Scotland, England, the Ukraine etc?

How did president Trump end up with so so many Russian sympathizers in his campaign? Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Carter Paige, Steve Bannon, and Gen. Flynn, and now Tillerson?

WHAT is going on here?

How would that undermine US policy if you have no fucking clue as to what was being said?

 

[Marion Morrison]

I'm not sure I see it in that way...quite.

For one thing, I am absolutely convinced Russia was behind the hacks and their purpose was to attempt to influence the election. I don't think you you can get all our diverse intelligence communities on the same page if it wasn't - too much turf fighting and more competition than cooperation.

I think there is another way of looking at what is happening, and that is by the precedents that have been set and the questions they lead to.

Pre-Election
1. Why did Comey do what he did, at those exact times?
2. Why was most of the disinformation and the hacks and leaks pre-election directed towards Clinton?
3. Why did non-political, and traditionally non-partisan agencies/individuals such as military and intelligence come out in favor of Clinton or against Trump?
4. Trump repeatedly insults, dismisses, negates reports from the Intelligence communities.
5. Trump talks about a briefing in a manner which suggests he might lie to politicize it and he might not respect sensitive material in an impulse.
6. Leading figures in Trump's campaign with strong Russian ties.


Post-Election
1. Trump continues to degrade and insult the intelligence community when presented with evidence of Russia's involvement.
2. Trump surrounds himself with a close inner-circle of non-traditional outsider advisors: conspiracy theorists such as Flynn and Bannon, for example.
3. Trump's campaign staff, current advisors and cabinet include a number of people with strong Russian links.
4. Trump's Administration is in crisis mode - he has picked people who are competitive with each other, information is not shared along traditional chanels, if at all, there is internal fighting and a profound lack of trust inside.
5. Anomolies are showing up. Flynn talking with Russia - telling them not to worry about the sanctions - before Trump was even sworn into office.
6. Putin's highly unusual decision to not retaliate tit for tat in typical fashion over the expulsion of Russian spies and diplomats. It was this which flagged the Intelligence services to look over tapes of the wiretapping of Russian diplomats.
7. Flynn had lied to the VP, and the VP had defended him, and the VP was kept IN THE DARK for two weeks about this - a highly unusual lack of communication (and respect for) the man who is supposed to be closest to the President, and the #2 person in charge.

Resulting chaos
1. Leaks leaks leaks
2. Flynn resigns.

How to interpret it?
1. There is a deep distrust and unease of the President and his staff coming from the Intelligence community both civilian and military...and other agencies and a President who doesn't take it seriously. I don't ever recall such a situation before.
2. What if there are people in the Intelligence Agencies who are deeply and sincerely afraid that Trump and/or members of his staff are compromised?

It was a disturbing precedent to see key figures in Intelligence and the Military come out against Trump during the election campaign. They have traditionally been non-partisan. It's disturbing to see the amount of leaking, as well as the involvement of wikileaks (essentially a Russian proxy) and to see now, what could possibly be independent internal actions, like the leaking of this material. It's disturbing to see so many ties to Russia - a autocratic oligarchic regime, who has destabilzied a neighboring country, supported an uprising and is now suffering under sanctions that we have to power to ease.

Is it partisanship or fear for our country that is driving this?


Motive for Russia is easy - the sanctions are hurting.

If comey was ethical he would have recommended an indictment of hillary. He had to contort the law to come up with a reason to not do so. If the russki's were helping anyone it was her. As far as the intel leadership being partisan, there is NO doubt that they did. They were all obama appointments, and they all had a vested interest in hillary being elected. ALL of them.

I don't agree - and here's why.

When the FBI is investigating, they do not release info other then the bare minimum. When it's concluded - then either criminal indictment is handed down or the person is cleared. They never NEVER publically lambaste, go into detail or discuss any part of the investigation before it is concluded. Compare the way Comey handled and publicized Clinton's investigation to how they handled their investigation into Trump's Russian connections and you will see the absolute stark difference.

I also don't buy that because they were "Obama appointments" they would have a vested interest in Clinton's election. Appointments know it's for a term and many, in fact, don't last the whole term or resign in the second term. If this were the case we would have seen a whole lot of this behavior in prior transitions. The other thing is - Comey is a Republican. He is currently serving under Trump. He previously served under G.W. Bush. There is no guarantee he would have served under Clinton. What he did - that last minute email fiasco SHORTLY before the election itself - was in no way favorable to Clinton.

This is, in my opinion, why there are leaks.

Government workers shun Trump, give big money to Clinton
BY JONATHAN SWAN - 10/26/16 06:01 AM EDT

Federal government employees are opening their wallets to help Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump on Nov. 8.

Of the roughly $2 million that federal workers from 14 agencies spent on presidential politics by the end of September, about $1.9 million, or 95 percent, went to the Democratic nominee’s campaign, according to an analysis by The Hill.

Employees at all the agencies analyzed, without exception, are sending their campaign contributions overwhelmingly to Clinton over her Republican counterpart. Several agencies, such as the State Department, which Clinton once led, saw more than 99 percent of contributions going to Clinton.

Employees of the Department of Justice, which investigated Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of State, gave Clinton 97 percent of their donations. Trump received $8,756 from DOJ employees compared with $286,797 for Clinton. From IRS employees, Clinton received 94 percent of donations.

[...]

Government workers shun Trump, give big money to Clinton

Anyone found guilty of leaking the contents of those tapes should be made an example of with the most severe sentence possible.

There are leaks because intelligence officials knew Trump and his people were not being truthful about the nature of their relationships with Russian officials.

So they decided to break the law themselves and give away methods of how that intelligence was gathered. That's criminal stupidity. They must be liberals.

But of course, mon frer.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Officials say the communications were intercepted during routine intelligence collection targeting Russians known to U.S. intelligence. And among those who regularly communicated with Russian nationals, then-campaign chairman Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn, who resigned his post as Trump’s National Security Advisor Monday night after news reports about a call with Russia’s ambassador regarding U.S. sanctions.

Trump aides were in ‘constant’ contact with Russians

there's your link...

A link form CNN, who is now famous for "fake news". How convenient!

CNN is now relegated to 'very fake news' status......

If they told me that water was wet, I would need another source to confirm the truth.

 

[danielpalos]

it is political and subject to Congressional oversight regarding Ethics.

 

[Marion Morrison]

it is political and subject to Congressional oversight regarding Ethics.

Yep, and some cubicle spooks will soon be collecting unemployment.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Hot damn.

Well that's the thing. I'm no Hillary fan, but if Comey had knowledge that Team Trump MIGHT have been violating the Logan Act at the same time he went on TV days before the election to say there MIGHT be more Hillary emails ... I think we have a constitutional crisis with the FBI

Stop with the freaking Logan Act. It only applies to unauthorized individuals. And last time I looked Trump and his team were elected.

But not in office yet. There is only one president at a time. But fear not, no one will be charged with violating the Logan act... no one ever is.

Piss off. They were the official transition team and just as every other transition team forever were making contacts with global leaders and businesses.

Five calls to the Russian ambassador on the very same day as the president announced new sanctions and expelled diplomats.

Looks more like damage control and reassurance rather than standard transition contacts.

I want to know which of you libs are going to man up and tell us what the harm was in telling the Russians not to retaliate because Obozo's policy was not going to carried over into the new administration.

 

[danielpalos]

it is political and subject to Congressional oversight regarding Ethics.

Yep, and some cubicle spooks will soon be collecting unemployment.

don't they have a "contingency petty cash fund" for that now? it should be standard practice from all of the Arms sales.

 

[Marion Morrison]

it is political and subject to Congressional oversight regarding Ethics.

Yep, and some cubicle spooks will soon be collecting unemployment.

don't they have a "contingency petty cash fund" for that now? it should be standard practice from all of the Arms sales.

Not for cubicle spooks. They just stay in the building.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

C'mon. I'm here to learn and discuss reality. What the hell were they gonna "ARREST him for the Logan Act"??

You fucking jerking my chain? Dennis Rodman goes to N. Fucking Korea to chum with Kim Jung Insane and that's NOT Logan act? Has ANYONE ever been prosecuted under the Logan act?

Gen Flynn was RECENTLY the TOP SPY for the Pentagon as head of the DIAgency. You think he's a pawn of Putin? Get real...

Is Mr. Rodman going to run for president? There is a difference.

Give me a break. You need to read up on the Logan Act. It applies only to those individuals who are not authorized to deal with foreign nations.

Trump was freaking elected and he appointed Flynn who was then by virtue of his appointment authorized to speak with foreign entities. Which he did.

You don't speak with Foreign Adversary's UNTIL you're sworn into office--dumbass. An attempt to do so, is a National Security breach, and looked upon as trying to usurp the current administration's constitutional authority over foreign policy issues.

And clearly Campaign aids during the Campaign Season were in constant contact with high level Russian officials, and they have the phone records, along with the audio conversations to prove it. Since Russians do not vote in this country, nor can they make a campaign donations, it's fairly clear what those conversations were about.
Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign - CNNPolitics.com

A NOMINEE and their team is NOT prohibited from arbitrary contacts with foreign leaders. They would not be in trouble unless they PUBLICLY used those conversations to attack CURRENT Admin policy.

In fact -- if the nominee is constantly smeared by rumors and leaks from the GOVERNMENT ITSELF -- they are PERFECTLY warranted to investigate on their own. Even using assets like Flynn who HAS the contacts to determine where the shit is coming from..

I didn't see you all blubbering and whining when Hillary was speaking AS A CIVILIAN to foreign leaders for the Clinton Foundation and shaking down for money..

Also -- if you remember the Iranian hostages were released within AN HOUR of Reagan's Inauguration. You think that was "a coincidence"????

WHY are you 'playing dumb'? Is there some political posturing purpose for this...???

Talking to foreign leaders and soliciting donations for a Charity Foundation is not breaking the LAW. This has been explained to you SEVERAL TIMES already...??

What is against the law, is for a citizen to intervene in US Policy with a Foreign Nation, that would or does, undermine that US Policy.

So please, for the love of God, stop with this regurgitated bull crud of yours... go hunt down your integrity...it's been kidnapped!

It most definitely is if you are the sitting Secretary of State and a quid pro quo seems likely.

 

[Care4all]

WHY are you 'playing dumb'? Is there some political posturing purpose for this...???

Talking to foreign leaders and soliciting donations for a Charity Foundation is not breaking the LAW. This has been explained to you SEVERAL TIMES already...??

What is against the law, is for a citizen to intervene in US Policy with a Foreign Nation, that would or does, undermine that US Policy.

So please, for the love of God, stop with this regurgitated bull crud of yours... go hunt down your integrity...it's been kidnapped!

Sure Sure -- all that foreign contact for Hillary was for the poor and wretched of the world.

There is NO prohibition on a NOMINEE doing fact-finding, hand-shaking, getting opinion, from foreign state contacts. If a campaign team DIDN'T have the "gravitas" and the sense to DO THAT -- they don't belong running for President of the USA...

OR --- tracking down leads on slander and libel AGAINST the campaign that is related to foreign Intel agencies or foreign state actors.

Was Russia the only country he contacted to do this with, the year and a half of the campaign?

Who's he? If you're referring to Flynn, I don't even know the EXTENT of his campaign role. Certainly not working EVERYDAY for Trump at that point.

He would certainly FREE to make any calls on Trump's behalf to answer questions about how foreign countries were planning to fight terrorism, or the plans for Nato expansion, or anything ELSE the campaign wanted to pass to the nominee.

That playing field needs to be level. Otherwise the incumbent would always win. Wouldn't be fair to hobble challengers from having briefing and talks with foreign officials.

The campaigns are all about fighting over past and future policy. It's not illegal to OPPOSE a sitting or past administration on ANY ISSUE. Not even when it comes to sanctions on Russia, or the Iran Nuclear or ANYTHING.. If you state your PUBLIC opinion on those things, you can also talk to primary sources.

Where are you guys getting the idea that EDUCATING yourselves, or having contacts with foreign govt representatives is somehow illegal?????

I do not believe anyone has that Idea that you can not talk with other foreign nations or educate themselves on other foreign nations.... I think that is simply spin, coming from the right wing to try to confuse the issue at hand.

This "concern'' with the Trump campaign , Trump and Russia began before Trump became the Republican nominee when Trump began praising Comrade Putin... and was an immediate and a legitimate concern....

My ears thought they were playing tricks on me, hearing Trump giving Putin all of this praise, when I had just gotten done reading several articles on how over 70 political opponents of Putin's and Journalists had been murdered through his direction since he took office.

Why would any decent human being, on the face of the Earth, be praising someone like Putin?

It made no sense. PERIOD

And from that point onward, every comment Trump made, was in favor of Putin?

then we had Carter Paige, and Manafort, and Roger Stone, and Flynn.....ALL Putin and Russian lovers as well, then we find out Manafort was paid millions and millions for work he did over there for a client that was Putin's "man" in the Ukraine, then we had Manafort having to quit as Trump's campaign manager due to his Russian connections....

Oh, and did you know that this Manafort guy who was put in as his campaign manager when Roger Stone stepped down , did the job as campaign manager for FREE.....bells went off saying WARNING, WARNING, Warning Will Robinson

so why was this Putin loving guy, volunteering for free to do the extensive and very hard job, of being Trump's campaign manager for free? FOR FREE????

then we had the DNC leaks dropping one week before the convention and were told that Russians were the prime culprit.

Then we have his first campaign manager, Roger Stone warning Podesta that he basically was next on the wikileaks, and low and behold, 3 months later, after Roger Stone's tweet taunt to Podesta, the Podesta files were dumped on to wikileaks and released the day the Access Hollywood tape was released to detract from the Grabbing Pussies of beautiful women comment.

My oh my, how more perfect could the timing be? If it was the Russians dumping the stolen emails, they could not have picked better times to release these sets of emails....if I were his campaign manager, I would have picked those precise times to dump the DNC and the Podesta stolen emails......

There is so so so so much more, so many more dots that connect to the same theme...the theme that maybe, Trump's campaign was in collusion with the Russians to influence this election in his favor....

There is not enough space or time for me to show them all to you... and I am not the only one that noticed them all....many Republicans noticed it as well.... and I am certain all of our intelligence people were even more concerned than I am as a regular ole citizen.

Flynn, and him talking about the sanctions and perhaps reneging them when Trump takes office and undermining the existing US Policy is like a drop in the bucket filled to the brim of ALL of the various things going on connecting the Trump campaign with the Russians...

My thoughts initially, were that the Russians infiltrated the Trump campaign early on with so called American sympathizers....

but later, with Trump also picking Tillerson for Secretary of State, I realized this Russian/ Putin love, was coming from the very top, from Trump himself....

AS a US Citizen and perhaps growing up in the cold war has something to do with it, I'm not comfortable with all that has happened and millions of other Americans are right there with me, and feel we need an investigation, an honest and fair one, to sort everything out.

this IS NOT about Democrats vs Republicans in my book, this is about the USA vs Putin.

Wow. You've really gone off the deep end. Putin love? Give me a freaking break. Nothing has been proven about Putin being a murderer. The Clintons have more bodies around them.

And for many years as members of the G8 and G20 trade with the country has been legal. Conversations and associations with Russians have been legal.

This is all bloody nonsense you spewing.

Your Obama had no problem embracing Morsi and the terrorists he installed after bumping Mubarak out of power in Egypt. Ask any Coptic Christian how they feel about Obama foisting the Muslim Brotherhood on them. Ask any Egyptian what the MB did in the short time Obama had them in power.

No problem for Obama wining and dining all the monstrous dictators of Africa at the WH did he now? It was dubbed the Monsters Ball.

You on the left and RINOS have no problem with Saudi Arabia and their royalty. That passes even dealing with dictators. They whack opponents on a regular basis.

Putin is an angel compared to the shit storm Obama cause in the ME. Starting off with the fake Arab Spring in Egypt,

On to removing Gaddafi from power and turning Libya over to terror groups.

Then on to trying to depose Assad. Oh yeah. You assholes called him an evil dictator too. Isn't that the talking point for anyone you don't like.

Obama with his direct interference gave the world ISIS.

So. Who has more blood on their hands? Putin or Obama.

Easy answer. Obama.

No Tinydancer, I truly have not gone off the deep end.

I can understand your support for Putin, you have family and blood in the Ukraine and want Crimea to be a part of Russia, I can understand that as well...

Putin is a thug and a murderer of his political opponents. Claiming this is not true is simply wrong and not disputable....

President Obama is a decent man....he's never had his political opponents killed off and irradiated, he's made some mistakes in war...so you can take your comparison and put that where the sun don't shine....Obama can not, in any way shape of form, be compared to the likes of a thug like Putin....NONE of our Presidents can be....not even President Trump.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Sure Sure -- all that foreign contact for Hillary was for the poor and wretched of the world.

There is NO prohibition on a NOMINEE doing fact-finding, hand-shaking, getting opinion, from foreign state contacts. If a campaign team DIDN'T have the "gravitas" and the sense to DO THAT -- they don't belong running for President of the USA...

OR --- tracking down leads on slander and libel AGAINST the campaign that is related to foreign Intel agencies or foreign state actors.

Was Russia the only country he contacted to do this with, the year and a half of the campaign?

Who's he? If you're referring to Flynn, I don't even know the EXTENT of his campaign role. Certainly not working EVERYDAY for Trump at that point.

He would certainly FREE to make any calls on Trump's behalf to answer questions about how foreign countries were planning to fight terrorism, or the plans for Nato expansion, or anything ELSE the campaign wanted to pass to the nominee.

That playing field needs to be level. Otherwise the incumbent would always win. Wouldn't be fair to hobble challengers from having briefing and talks with foreign officials.

The campaigns are all about fighting over past and future policy. It's not illegal to OPPOSE a sitting or past administration on ANY ISSUE. Not even when it comes to sanctions on Russia, or the Iran Nuclear or ANYTHING.. If you state your PUBLIC opinion on those things, you can also talk to primary sources.

Where are you guys getting the idea that EDUCATING yourselves, or having contacts with foreign govt representatives is somehow illegal?????

I do not believe anyone has that Idea that you can not talk with other foreign nations or educate themselves on other foreign nations.... I think that is simply spin, coming from the right wing to try to confuse the issue at hand.

This "concern'' with the Trump campaign , Trump and Russia began before Trump became the Republican nominee when Trump began praising Comrade Putin... and was an immediate and a legitimate concern....

My ears thought they were playing tricks on me, hearing Trump giving Putin all of this praise, when I had just gotten done reading several articles on how over 70 political opponents of Putin's and Journalists had been murdered through his direction since he took office.

Why would any decent human being, on the face of the Earth, be praising someone like Putin?

It made no sense. PERIOD

And from that point onward, every comment Trump made, was in favor of Putin?

then we had Carter Paige, and Manafort, and Roger Stone, and Flynn.....ALL Putin and Russian lovers as well, then we find out Manafort was paid millions and millions for work he did over there for a client that was Putin's "man" in the Ukraine, then we had Manafort having to quit as Trump's campaign manager due to his Russian connections....

Oh, and did you know that this Manafort guy who was put in as his campaign manager when Roger Stone stepped down , did the job as campaign manager for FREE.....bells went off saying WARNING, WARNING, Warning Will Robinson

so why was this Putin loving guy, volunteering for free to do the extensive and very hard job, of being Trump's campaign manager for free? FOR FREE????

then we had the DNC leaks dropping one week before the convention and were told that Russians were the prime culprit.

Then we have his first campaign manager, Roger Stone warning Podesta that he basically was next on the wikileaks, and low and behold, 3 months later, after Roger Stone's tweet taunt to Podesta, the Podesta files were dumped on to wikileaks and released the day the Access Hollywood tape was released to detract from the Grabbing Pussies of beautiful women comment.

My oh my, how more perfect could the timing be? If it was the Russians dumping the stolen emails, they could not have picked better times to release these sets of emails....if I were his campaign manager, I would have picked those precise times to dump the DNC and the Podesta stolen emails......

There is so so so so much more, so many more dots that connect to the same theme...the theme that maybe, Trump's campaign was in collusion with the Russians to influence this election in his favor....

There is not enough space or time for me to show them all to you... and I am not the only one that noticed them all....many Republicans noticed it as well.... and I am certain all of our intelligence people were even more concerned than I am as a regular ole citizen.

Flynn, and him talking about the sanctions and perhaps reneging them when Trump takes office and undermining the existing US Policy is like a drop in the bucket filled to the brim of ALL of the various things going on connecting the Trump campaign with the Russians...

My thoughts initially, were that the Russians infiltrated the Trump campaign early on with so called American sympathizers....

but later, with Trump also picking Tillerson for Secretary of State, I realized this Russian/ Putin love, was coming from the very top, from Trump himself....

AS a US Citizen and perhaps growing up in the cold war has something to do with it, I'm not comfortable with all that has happened and millions of other Americans are right there with me, and feel we need an investigation, an honest and fair one, to sort everything out.

this IS NOT about Democrats vs Republicans in my book, this is about the USA vs Putin.

Wow. You've really gone off the deep end. Putin love? Give me a freaking break. Nothing has been proven about Putin being a murderer. The Clintons have more bodies around them.

And for many years as members of the G8 and G20 trade with the country has been legal. Conversations and associations with Russians have been legal.

This is all bloody nonsense you spewing.

Your Obama had no problem embracing Morsi and the terrorists he installed after bumping Mubarak out of power in Egypt. Ask any Coptic Christian how they feel about Obama foisting the Muslim Brotherhood on them. Ask any Egyptian what the MB did in the short time Obama had them in power.

No problem for Obama wining and dining all the monstrous dictators of Africa at the WH did he now? It was dubbed the Monsters Ball.

You on the left and RINOS have no problem with Saudi Arabia and their royalty. That passes even dealing with dictators. They whack opponents on a regular basis.

Putin is an angel compared to the shit storm Obama cause in the ME. Starting off with the fake Arab Spring in Egypt,

On to removing Gaddafi from power and turning Libya over to terror groups.

Then on to trying to depose Assad. Oh yeah. You assholes called him an evil dictator too. Isn't that the talking point for anyone you don't like.

Obama with his direct interference gave the world ISIS.

So. Who has more blood on their hands? Putin or Obama.

Easy answer. Obama.

No Tinydancer, I truly have not gone off the deep end.

I can understand your support for Putin, you have family and blood in the Ukraine and want Crimea to be a part of Russia, I can understand that as well...

Putin is a thug and a murderer of his political opponents. Claiming this is not true is simply wrong and not disputable....

President Obama is a decent man....he's never had his political opponents killed off and irradiated, he's made some mistakes in war...so you can take your comparison and put that where the sun don't shine....Obama can not, in any way shape of form, be compared to the likes of a thug like Putin....NONE of our Presidents can be....not even President Trump.

Actually TD has a point. Putin is probably responsible for less deaths.

Is Putin more thuggish? Sure he is. Was Obama responsible for more deaths? Yes he was.

 

[Care4all]

As you saw, that was in 2012, petulant former President Barack Hussein Obama was discussing his RE-ELECTION.

That's right. Lame duck ought to play by the same rules as the challenger RIGHT????

of course not!

as president, Obama CAN NOT UNDERMINE himself...

No no. You're not getting it. If the lame duck can make winks and nods to the Russians about what he'll do differently AFTER the election (that's what the comment was about) -- Why can't the challenger do the same thing?

Why is HE privileged to discussions about policy changes that MIGHT happen and his challenger is not?

You think Hillary wasn't talking to world leaders CONSTANTLY for the Clinton Foundation as a CIVILIAN during her campaigns????

i don't think you get it....talking to other foreign nationals is not against the law....trying to undermine, go against, finagle a deal with foreign nationals that goes against USA policy is illegal.

and Obama during his second election, even though he was the President, told the Russian guy, that they would talk AFTER the election...on his plans....

THAT was Obama, respecting our election process, and saying let us wait, and see who wins....in case Obama did not win, he did not want to hamstring the next president.

Bullshit! Utter bullshit! Obama was asking for patience from Russia, I heard it. You heard it. We all heard it. Now for you to say we didn't hear it is a little late and very stupid.

Hello? Anybody home? Obama could not break the Logan Act, when he WAS the President of the USA.... patience, simply meant, wait until after the election and I am reelected. There is no breaking of the Logan Act by that....NONE, ZIP, ZILCH.

 

[oreo]

Again -- there is no reason to flag, transcript, analyze or publicly leak communications from an incoming Admin. ESPECIALLY if they BELIEVE there is a credible threat to National Security.

not even for political purposes?

well it's against the law. Let's round up the obummer leftovers and jail their sorry asses.

what is against the law?

Nothing is against the LAW. The Comrade is having a conniption fit because this information is leaking out of intelligence agencies. He continually denied the Russian hackings, thereby insulting the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Homeland Security and 13 other intelligence agencies. Even at one time stating--"he knows people that know more than they do."

Paybacks are HELL aren't they. Regardless all of this would have come out in the Senate investigations anyway, it was just a matter of time. It's just coming out a little early now.

He sure didn't complain about all the leaks about Hillary Clinton. He was rallying on the charge as was every other Reich winger on this board.

I agree to disagree. It is merely, politics as usual. Mr. Trump has every opportunity to divest himself of any conflicts of interest; we have a Commerce Clause, for just this contingency.

Ha.Ha.--Trump is held hostage by so many foreign countries it's laughable, and turning them over to his kids does not eliminate his conflict of interest, he is still going to protect those assets, like those hotels in CHINA.
Trump's Hotels In China Could Be A Conflict For The President-Elect

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That's right. Lame duck ought to play by the same rules as the challenger RIGHT????

of course not!

as president, Obama CAN NOT UNDERMINE himself...

No no. You're not getting it. If the lame duck can make winks and nods to the Russians about what he'll do differently AFTER the election (that's what the comment was about) -- Why can't the challenger do the same thing?

Why is HE privileged to discussions about policy changes that MIGHT happen and his challenger is not?

You think Hillary wasn't talking to world leaders CONSTANTLY for the Clinton Foundation as a CIVILIAN during her campaigns????

i don't think you get it....talking to other foreign nationals is not against the law....trying to undermine, go against, finagle a deal with foreign nationals that goes against USA policy is illegal.

and Obama during his second election, even though he was the President, told the Russian guy, that they would talk AFTER the election...on his plans....

THAT was Obama, respecting our election process, and saying let us wait, and see who wins....in case Obama did not win, he did not want to hamstring the next president.

Bullshit! Utter bullshit! Obama was asking for patience from Russia, I heard it. You heard it. We all heard it. Now for you to say we didn't hear it is a little late and very stupid.

Hello? anybody home? Obama could not break the Logan Act, when he WAS the President of the USA.... patience, simply meant, wait untill after the election and I am reelected. There is no breaking of the Logan Act by that....NONE, ZIP, ZILCH.

Did I mention the Logan Act? I am not stupid like you and wrongly believe this has anything to do with the topic.

Try reading for comprehension or get a middle schooler to read it for you.

 

[oreo]

This is, in my opinion, why there are leaks.

Government workers shun Trump, give big money to Clinton
BY JONATHAN SWAN - 10/26/16 06:01 AM EDT

Federal government employees are opening their wallets to help Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump on Nov. 8.

Of the roughly $2 million that federal workers from 14 agencies spent on presidential politics by the end of September, about $1.9 million, or 95 percent, went to the Democratic nominee’s campaign, according to an analysis by The Hill.

Employees at all the agencies analyzed, without exception, are sending their campaign contributions overwhelmingly to Clinton over her Republican counterpart. Several agencies, such as the State Department, which Clinton once led, saw more than 99 percent of contributions going to Clinton.

Employees of the Department of Justice, which investigated Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of State, gave Clinton 97 percent of their donations. Trump received $8,756 from DOJ employees compared with $286,797 for Clinton. From IRS employees, Clinton received 94 percent of donations.

[...]

Government workers shun Trump, give big money to Clinton

Anyone found guilty of leaking the contents of those tapes should be made an example of with the most severe sentence possible.

the content of the tapes were not released....by the intel community....

we need congress or special independent committee to find out what was actually said.

Anyone with half a brain would realize that there was absolutely no reason for advisers within the Trump campaign to be continually talking with the Russian Ambassador and other high level RUSSIAN officials during the CAMPAIGN SEASON. Which adds weight to the plot to hack into DNC databases, and spread all kinds of FAKE news on social media outlets, which Putin did.

Collusion with a Foreign adversary to do a cyber attack on the United States is considered TREASON.

Putin stuck his neck out very far to interfere into this election. It's something no other Russian has ever done. I am certain he did not expect to get caught, and he certainly didn't expect this kind of response. There is a reward somewhere in this for him doing this, that is bound to come out.

They have the phone records, they know that there was continual communication between the Trump campaign and Russian officials. There's no denying that.
Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign - CNNPolitics.com

So what does this tell us. That Trump continually LIED. He continually denied the intelligence reports. He knew dam good and well that Russia was hacking into DNC databases all along. He's hiding something and it may have something to do with this Dossier file.
How the Trump dossier came to light: secret sources, a retired spy and John McCain

Flynn's conversations were NOT "during the campaign season".. It was end of December or early January.

actually, it was the whole campaign season, 3 Trump campaign people, Roger Stone, paul manafort, and gen flynn, kept in constant contact with Russian operatives the whole campaign... excessive contact.... beyond reason contact....during the campaign.

Yeah, and if a frog could fly, he wouldn't bump his ass!

I am sure you have absolute documentation of every one of their alleged conversations.

No, but I am sure there is documentation--LOL The Russian phone lines were wire tapped.

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position.[2] The Act was passed following George Logan's unauthorized negotiations with France in 1798, and was signed into law by President John Adams on January 30, 1799. The Act was last amended in 1994, and violation of the Logan Act is a felony.
Logan Act - Wikipedia

It looks like there were a few of Trump's campaign aids that were in contact with high level Russian officials during the CAMPAIGN SEASON. They were unauthorized and in violation of the Logan Act.
Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign - CNNPolitics.com

General Flynn was unauthorized to contact Russian officials because Trump had not been sworn into office yet. Then he lied about it.

 

[danielpalos]

it is political and subject to Congressional oversight regarding Ethics.

Yep, and some cubicle spooks will soon be collecting unemployment.

don't they have a "contingency petty cash fund" for that now? it should be standard practice from all of the Arms sales.

Not for cubicle spooks. They just stay in the building.

isn't there an implied contractor's clause, if it doesn't work as planned, contingency fund?

 

[Care4all]

the content of the tapes were not released....by the intel community....

we need congress or special independent committee to find out what was actually said.

Anyone with half a brain would realize that there was absolutely no reason for advisers within the Trump campaign to be continually talking with the Russian Ambassador and other high level RUSSIAN officials during the CAMPAIGN SEASON. Which adds weight to the plot to hack into DNC databases, and spread all kinds of FAKE news on social media outlets, which Putin did.

Collusion with a Foreign adversary to do a cyber attack on the United States is considered TREASON.

Putin stuck his neck out very far to interfere into this election. It's something no other Russian has ever done. I am certain he did not expect to get caught, and he certainly didn't expect this kind of response. There is a reward somewhere in this for him doing this, that is bound to come out.

They have the phone records, they know that there was continual communication between the Trump campaign and Russian officials. There's no denying that.
Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign - CNNPolitics.com

So what does this tell us. That Trump continually LIED. He continually denied the intelligence reports. He knew dam good and well that Russia was hacking into DNC databases all along. He's hiding something and it may have something to do with this Dossier file.
How the Trump dossier came to light: secret sources, a retired spy and John McCain

Flynn's conversations were NOT "during the campaign season".. It was end of December or early January.

actually, it was the whole campaign season, 3 Trump campaign people, Roger Stone, paul manafort, and gen flynn, kept in constant contact with Russian operatives the whole campaign... excessive contact.... beyond reason contact....during the campaign.

Yeah, and if a frog could fly, he wouldn't bump his ass!

I am sure you have absolute documentation of every one of their alleged conversations.

No, but I am sure there is documentation--LOL The Russian phone lines were wire tapped.

The Logan Act (1 Stat. 613, 18 U.S.C. § 953, enacted January 30, 1799) is a United States federal law that details the fine and/or imprisonment of unauthorized citizens who negotiate with foreign governments having a dispute with the United States. It was intended to prevent the undermining of the government's position.[2] The Act was passed following George Logan's unauthorized negotiations with France in 1798, and was signed into law by President John Adams on January 30, 1799. The Act was last amended in 1994, and violation of the Logan Act is a felony.
Logan Act - Wikipedia

It looks like there were a few of Trump's campaign aids that were in contact with high level Russian officials during the CAMPAIGN SEASON. They were unauthorized and in violation of the Logan Act.
Trump aides were in constant touch with senior Russian officials during campaign - CNNPolitics.com

General Flynn was unauthorized to contact Russian officials because Trump had not been sworn into office yet. Then he lied about it.

No Oreo, without knowing the content of those conversations with Trump campaign people, you can NOT say that they broke the Logan Act...you do not know that they were trying to undermine the President and or our USA Policy.... simply making connections with them is NOT breaking the LAW.

If Flynn was undermining USA existing policy when he spoke with the Ambassador the day the sanctions were issued for the Russians hacking the DNC and disbursement of the stolen emails, then Flynn could have been in violation of the Logan Act....Flynn possibly believed he was in violation for it, and this is why he did not fess up to Pence when VP Pence was was specifically questioning Flynn about it before he went live on the Sunday TV SHOWS.

 

[danielpalos]

not even for political purposes?

well it's against the law. Let's round up the obummer leftovers and jail their sorry asses.

what is against the law?

Nothing is against the LAW. The Comrade is having a conniption fit because this information is leaking out of intelligence agencies. He continually denied the Russian hackings, thereby insulting the FBI, the CIA, the Department of Homeland Security and 13 other intelligence agencies. Even at one time stating--"he knows people that know more than they do."

Paybacks are HELL aren't they. Regardless all of this would have come out in the Senate investigations anyway, it was just a matter of time. It's just coming out a little early now.

He sure didn't complain about all the leaks about Hillary Clinton. He was rallying on the charge as was every other Reich winger on this board.

I agree to disagree. It is merely, politics as usual. Mr. Trump has every opportunity to divest himself of any conflicts of interest; we have a Commerce Clause, for just this contingency.

Ha.Ha.--Trump is held hostage by so many foreign countries it's laughable, and turning them over to his kids does not eliminate his conflict of interest, he is still going to protect those assets, like those hotels in CHINA.
Trump's Hotels In China Could Be A Conflict For The President-Elect

Our Founding Fathers thought of every Thing.

We have a Commerce Clause.