Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[paperview]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.
...

I see you didn't even bother to read the OP.

The organization does NOT have to provide BC coverage. They are exempt.

Their objection is to filling out a short form claiming they are exempt.

No it isn't.

You're wrong. As usual.

 

[paperview]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

Funny how you aren't worried about how much the government is pending on litigation, especially when you consider that it is considerably more than all the people challenging the law combined. That tells me you don't care about the money, you just want to look smart, and forgot that being smart is more than saying stupid things.

Well, you're right about one thing ... no one would ever mistakenly think the right doesn't care about money first, with people WAY down the list.

the catholic church could feed the whole damn planet if they just sold their gold.

NO, I'm not saying they should sell their gold. I'm saying they lie when they say they give a fuck about a starving child. If you want to to see what is wrong with out planet, look to the catholic church.

Let the lawyers live. XXXXXXX.

I got a real problem with this post.

Not cool. Not cool at all.

 

[Vox]

birth control is NOT a healthcare issue and should not be covered by ANYBODY.

Period.

you need birth control? you BUY it in Walmart.
Or CVS

Of course it.

Long before The Pill was used for contraception, it was used for medical issues. It is still the go-to drug for many very serious medical issues.

If you were a woman or a doctor or could read, you would know that.

no it is not.

and nowhere else it is covered neither by insurance or single payer system.

ask brits or canadians - they BUY it.

 

[paperview]

Think so? Seems like a valid analogy. And potentially as dangerous. There's good reason to not have government in the business of deciding which religions deserve which special perks.

Let's hear from that raging liberall, Anthony Scalia, on ...

edited: yeah, I actually agree with Scalia here. Do you realize his statement contradicts the idea of the exemption, and implicitly the need to fill out a form?

There's more than one court who disagrees with you.

"On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition."

 

[Intense]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Here is the problem, a perceived Right, has now been turned into a Privilege. You may be fine with a Law that requires the Church to fill out forms, go through a process, getting permission or consent from an Arbitrary Power, that legislates on whim, but, I personally, take offense.

Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

 

[Vox]

Birth control has about as much to do with health care as a helmet.

And contraceptive insurance is not a proper insurance either, it's a service deal. A terrible one that no one would buy if it was their own money at that.

And yes birth control pills can be used for different conditions. Which has nothing to do with this, as you could still do that even if contraception wasn't covered by insurance. Further, I don't think pregnancy is the same as contraception, when did it become the same thing?

Up next: Insurance to cover your gas bills, and some stupid religious idiots (It's not the christians this time) believing that it's a good idea because of their ideology.


By the way, I am very pro contraception and abortion. But I am also pro sane economics. There is NO POINT in buying this type of "insurance". Everything you can do with it you can do without it, but much cheaper.

the WHOLE insurance at it's rates becasue of Obamacare is unneeded - you pay every month ridiculous sums of money - not less than 500$ per single person and than have to shell off not less than 6000$ before ANYTHING kicks in.

for that amount of money one can have ANYTHING, including minor surgery paid out of pocket.
and surgery does not happen every year.

routine visits to the doctor, including the cost f the drugs can be covered out of pocket - by that amount EASILY.

this is simple robbery and is called "insurance"

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Of course it doesn’t.

Just as religious beliefs don’t justify not obeying the law, such as the ACA:

To make an individual's obligation to obey such a law contingent upon the law's coincidence with his religious beliefs, except where the State's interest is "compelling" -- permitting him, by virtue of his beliefs, "to become a law unto himself," Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. at 167 -- contradicts both constitutional tradition and common sense. [n2]

EMPLOYMENT DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES OF OREGON, et al., Petitioners v. Alfred L. SMITH et al. | Supreme Court | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[paperview]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Here is the problem, a perceived Right, has now been turned into a Privilege. You may be fine with a Law that requires the Church to fill out forms, go through a process, getting permission or consent from an Arbitrary Power, that legislates on whim, but, I personally, take offense.

Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

I don't think you're helping by pointing to abortions.

Contraception helps prevent abortions. In any case, the orgs here are not being forced to provide contraception. They are exempt.

All they need do is fill out a one-page form. Bam. That's it.

If you think just stating you are exempt is enough, sans official declaration, what's to prevent anyone from saying their religion exempts them from paying taxes? You actually have to file forms to be exempt, yanno.

 

[koshergrl]

So explain why we have more abortions now than we had before contraceptives were readily available?

Obviously, you didn't think that one through, genius.

 

[dblack]

Let's hear from that raging liberall, Anthony Scalia, on ...

edited: yeah, I actually agree with Scalia here. Do you realize his statement contradicts the idea of the exemption, and implicitly the need to fill out a form?

There's more than one court who disagrees with you.

"On the contrary, the record of more than a century of our free exercise jurisprudence contradicts that proposition."

I think you may be confused as to my position here, which may be partly my fault because my views aren't as clear-cut as other posters in this thread.

To clarify, I don't think there should BE any special exemptions granted to religions in regards to following general laws - which is what Scalia was saying. None the less, no one should have to fill out a form to exercise their freedom to make conscientious decisions based on their personal beliefs, religious or otherwise. Regulations that violate that freedom should be struck down for everyone, not cut up with special exemptions for favored religious groups.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Funny how you aren't worried about how much the government is pending on litigation, especially when you consider that it is considerably more than all the people challenging the law combined. That tells me you don't care about the money, you just want to look smart, and forgot that being smart is more than saying stupid things.

Well, you're right about one thing ... no one would ever mistakenly think the right doesn't care about money first, with people WAY down the list.

the catholic church could feed the whole damn planet if they just sold their gold.

NO, I'm not saying they should sell their gold. I'm saying they lie when they say they give a fuck about a starving child. If you want to to see what is wrong with out planet, look to the catholic church.

Let the lawyers live. XXXXXXX.

I got a real problem with this post.

Not cool. Not cool at all.

Urging that people be killed is a violation of the Board rules and should be reported.

 

[koshergrl]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

Funny how you aren't worried about how much the government is pending on litigation, especially when you consider that it is considerably more than all the people challenging the law combined. That tells me you don't care about the money, you just want to look smart, and forgot that being smart is more than saying stupid things.

Well, you're right about one thing ... no one would ever mistakenly think the right doesn't care about money first, with people WAY down the list.

the catholic church could feed the whole damn planet if they just sold their gold.

NO, I'm not saying they should sell their gold. I'm saying they lie when they say they give a fuck about a starving child. If you want to to see what is wrong with out planet, look to the catholic church.

Let the lawyers live. XXXXXXX

Let's hear again how progressives are in NO WAY similar to Nazis.

"He used very powerful propaganda techniques to convince not only the German people, but countless others, that if they eliminated the people who stood in their way and the degenerates and racially inferior, they - the great Germans would prosper.

Neighboring Poland - The First Target: “All Poles will disappear from the world.... It is essential that the great German people should consider it as its major task to destroy all Poles.” Heinrich Himmler"

"Thousands of Catholic priests and Christian pastors were forced into concentration camps. A special barracks was set up at Dachau, the camp near Munich, Germany, for clergymen. "

Non-Jewish Victims of the Holocaust | Jewish Virtual Library
​

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I'd like to see them lose the power they have over innocent people.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Well, you're right about one thing ... no one would ever mistakenly think the right doesn't care about money first, with people WAY down the list.

the catholic church could feed the whole damn planet if they just sold their gold.

NO, I'm not saying they should sell their gold. I'm saying they lie when they say they give a fuck about a starving child. If you want to to see what is wrong with out planet, look to the catholic church.

Let the lawyers live. XXXXXXX.

I got a real problem with this post.

Not cool. Not cool at all.

Urging that people be killed is a violation of the Board rules and should be reported.

Then report it but ask yourself why you never got all crazy over other calls to REALLY kill people.

Lets have one standard of behavior for all.

 

[koshergrl]

Why don't you link that, pudly? I haven't seen anyone say any of that stuff.

but I have heard progressives say that christians should be locked up, killed, have their children taken from them, denied entry into politics, shut up.....

In other words...you're a liar.

 

[koshergrl]

I think this thread is ready for badlands now.

It should have been there from the beginning...

 

[Intense]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom
Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Here is the problem, a perceived Right, has now been turned into a Privilege. You may be fine with a Law that requires the Church to fill out forms, go through a process, getting permission or consent from an Arbitrary Power, that legislates on whim, but, I personally, take offense.

Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

I don't think you're helping by pointing to abortions.

Contraception helps prevent abortions. In any case, the orgs here are not being forced to provide contraception. They are exempt.

All they need do is fill out a one-page form. Bam. That's it.

If you think just stating you are exempt is enough, sans official declaration, what's to prevent anyone from saying their religion exempts them from paying taxes? You actually have to file forms to be exempt, yanno.

Setting a new and controversial precedent, is both causing friction and dissent. Why should this surprise you? If the Federal Government passed a Law Tomorrow that stated that No One could Buy Sell or Trade, unless they received a chip, a mark on their forehead or wrist, where would you stand?

Just a thought. You know that Dermatologists can routinely prescribe Birth Control pills to battle acne, something which the Catholic Church has no problem with, right? PPV, seriously, this mandate crap just comes of as Totalitarian, it's destroying an industry, almost by design. Watching Keystone Cops play out here, with implementation, does not help.

 

[paperview]

Here is the problem, a perceived Right, has now been turned into a Privilege. You may be fine with a Law that requires the Church to fill out forms, go through a process, getting permission or consent from an Arbitrary Power, that legislates on whim, but, I personally, take offense.

Number of Abortions in US & Worldwide - Number of abortions since 1973

I don't think you're helping by pointing to abortions.

Contraception helps prevent abortions. In any case, the orgs here are not being forced to provide contraception. They are exempt.

All they need do is fill out a one-page form. Bam. That's it.

If you think just stating you are exempt is enough, sans official declaration, what's to prevent anyone from saying their religion exempts them from paying taxes? You actually have to file forms to be exempt, yanno.

Setting a new and controversial precedent, is both causing friction and dissent. Why should this surprise you? If the Federal Government passed a Law Tomorrow that stated that No One could Buy Sell or Trade, unless they received a chip, a mark on their forehead or wrist, where would you stand?

Just a thought. You know that Dermatologists can routinely prescribe Birth Control pills to battle acne, something which the Catholic Church has no problem with, right? PPV, seriously, this mandate crap just comes of as Totalitarian, it's destroying an industry, almost by design. Watching Keystone Cops play out here, with implementation, does not help.

I disagree.

We will see how this one goes as Sotomayor rules, and where it will go.

(yes, I think it's headed for the full SCOTUS)

From there, the Sisters (et al) will have to explain why filling out that pone-page exemption form is an onerous burden upon them.

I can't see how that could be the case.

 

[Intense]

I'd like to see them lose the power they have over innocent people.

You see flagrant violations, report them. You have a real prejudice against Priests, Ludly. Do you actually think Anyone here, would not want to see a Predator brought to Justice? Seriously? Do you seriously believe that the average Priest is a Child Molester? I don't.
You are on a Witch Hunt. Should reality find meaning in your life, you might want to play catch up, here.
VIRTUS® Online

 

[Barb]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.

And it is an extremely discriminatory mandate - not only on religious grounds, but it is a perfect example of gender discrimination. If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare.

Have you lost your fucking mind?

If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Show me ONE instance where religion has objected to the little blue pills being covered. ONE.