Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[paperview]

I repeat:

It just seems bizarre to me filing out a one-page form is such an onerous and sinful act, all unto itself.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Jews weren't carted off to concentration camps until they were first had their rights stripped from them. That was justified by criminalizing them....

Which progressives the world over applauded.

Not true.

Not even close.

 

[Intense]

I don't think you're helping by pointing to abortions.

Contraception helps prevent abortions. In any case, the orgs here are not being forced to provide contraception. They are exempt.

All they need do is fill out a one-page form. Bam. That's it.

If you think just stating you are exempt is enough, sans official declaration, what's to prevent anyone from saying their religion exempts them from paying taxes? You actually have to file forms to be exempt, yanno.

Setting a new and controversial precedent, is both causing friction and dissent. Why should this surprise you? If the Federal Government passed a Law Tomorrow that stated that No One could Buy Sell or Trade, unless they received a chip, a mark on their forehead or wrist, where would you stand?

Just a thought. You know that Dermatologists can routinely prescribe Birth Control pills to battle acne, something which the Catholic Church has no problem with, right? PPV, seriously, this mandate crap just comes of as Totalitarian, it's destroying an industry, almost by design. Watching Keystone Cops play out here, with implementation, does not help.

I disagree.

We will see how this one goes as Sotomayor rules, and where it will go.

(yes, I think it's headed for the full SCOTUS)

From there, the Sisters (et al) will have to explain why filling out that pone-page exemption form is an onerous burden upon them.

I can't see how that could be the case.

Let's try living in the past, just a little bit.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeT5otk2R1g]Five Man Electric Band - Signs with Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

What's the biggest distinction between a soft tyranny and a hard tyranny? Time? Circumstance? The flavor of the Day? The extremes or arbitrary rule? When will "We The People" matter? When it comes to Liberty, Property Rights, Privacy? Be someone rich or poor, shouldn't these things matter? Shouldn't what's right matter? If any law found itself opposed to what is just and fair, is it enough to say, It's the law and that is the end of the matter? What would Thoreau do there? MLK? Mother Theresa? One question.... Where are the Clinics? Where is cheap healthcare? Any Tyrant coud come up with a thousand ways to justify screwing both you and I, and just as many reasons. That doesn't make it right. The end does not justify the means.

 

[MeBelle]

I repeat:

It just seems bizarre to me filing out a one-page form is such an onerous and sinful act, all unto itself.

Forty-five such nonprofits have filed suit in federal court saying that filling out a form for someone else to get birth control is a substantial burden on their religion.

“They’re saying, ‘I can’t fill out permission slips for abortion, sterilization or contraception under any circumstances.’”

Do these quotes from the article help?

 

[MeBelle]

U.S. Government Asks Supreme Court Not To Extend Catholics' Temporary Contraception Exemption

 

[paperview]

I repeat:

It just seems bizarre to me filing out a one-page form is such an onerous and sinful act, all unto itself.

Forty-five such nonprofits have filed suit in federal court saying that filling out a form for someone else to get birth control is a substantial burden on their religion.

“They’re saying, ‘I can’t fill out permission slips for abortion, sterilization or contraception under any circumstances.’”

Do these quotes from the article help?

What article are you pulling that from?

None placed here.

The case in question does not force the Sisters or their Ins company to supply BC. BOTH are exempt.

 

[Barb]

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

The whole issue is that by signing the exemption form, their employees can then obtain that coverage elsewhere. Oh the fucking HORROR! Its the Reagan GAG ORDER all over again, but applied nationally, where it couldn't be applied then, because it didn't pass the constitutional scratch and sniff test, and STILL can't today.



Cry me a mutherfucking river.

You would think that an organization so supposedly "pro - LIFE" would be all over the means to prevent unwanted pregnancy. But its not about being pro - LIFE, its about being pro- CONTROL over and LIMITING other peoples lives and CHOICES.

 

[koshergrl]

We're well acquainted with progressives who maintain that if we don't do things their way, they'll see to it that people (in this case, children) will die.

Sometimes you're lying, and sometimes you actually intend to follow through.

The thing about this lie is just the blatant nature of it. Widespread contraceptive use hasn't reduced abortions at all, or there would be fewer abortions now than there were in the, say, 1920s. Or the 1950s even.

 

[koshergrl]

But don't let that stop you from repeating the lie ad nauseum. After all, the end justifies the means...and the end is dead babies! Yay!

 

[Barb]

Birth control is NOT a healthcare problem.

pregnancy IS a normal state and is avoidable by lifestyle options.
Government has no role in mandating the lifestyle choices.

Period.

If you want to live under gubmint total control - move to Cuba or North Korea and enjoy.

Birth Control is also used to treat medical problems, doof.

In this case, it still doesn't matter - as the org do not have to provide BC, nor does their insurance company - the Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust.

EXEMPT. Both.

birth control is NOT used to treat hormonal imbalances. Hormones are. Some of the hormones are also used in the birth control preparations.
But they are not the same "pills"

educate yourself before you pose as a knowledgeable, doof.

They most certainly are too, you ass. My daughter was put on them at age 14 to control hormonal imbalances that made her sick as hell every month to the point of high temperatures and debilitating illness.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

The whole issue is that by signing the exemption form, their employees can then obtain that coverage elsewhere. Oh the fucking HORROR! Its the Reagan GAG ORDER all over again, but applied nationally, where it couldn't be applied then, because it didn't pass the constitutional scratch and sniff test, and STILL can't today.



Cry me a mutherfucking river.

You would think that an organization so supposedly "pro - LIFE" would be all over the means to prevent unwanted pregnancy. But its not about being pro - LIFE, its about being pro- CONTROL over and LIMITING other peoples lives and CHOICES.

Yep. But its not babies or human life they care about. And, it has nothing to do with religious "sensibilities". Nothing at all.

 

[Barb]

But don't let that stop you from repeating the lie ad nauseum. After all, the end justifies the means...and the end is dead babies! Yay!

Access to contraception leads to FEWER abortions, you graceless cow.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, Luddly the "let's kill the babies and the priests but don't compare us to Nazis" dude.

You're always such a treat. Can't wait to see what amazingly foul things you utter next...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Birth Control is also used to treat medical problems, doof.

In this case, it still doesn't matter - as the org do not have to provide BC, nor does their insurance company - the Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust.

EXEMPT. Both.

birth control is NOT used to treat hormonal imbalances. Hormones are. Some of the hormones are also used in the birth control preparations.
But they are not the same "pills"

educate yourself before you pose as a knowledgeable, doof.

They most certainly are too, you ass. My daughter was put on them at age 14 to control hormonal imbalances that made her sick as hell every month to the point of high temperatures and debilitating illness.

As I pointed out earlier, before The Pill was prescribed for birth control, it was used for nothing but medical issues.

And, besides, since when are we going to allow a bunch of backward and archaic people who do not lie in the real world force us back to having another baby every time we have sex?

Do any of the rw's ever really thing about this?

 

[koshergrl]

But don't let that stop you from repeating the lie ad nauseum. After all, the end justifies the means...and the end is dead babies! Yay!

Access to contraception leads to FEWER abortions, you graceless cow.

Oh, so we have fewer abortions now than we did in 1920?

And fewer than we had in 1970?

Stop lying, in other words.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Sigh. The requirement to sign the certification is neither onerous nor unconstitutional.

To compare it to Nazis is ludicrous.

 

[freedombecki]

U.S. Government Asks Supreme Court Not To Extend Catholics' Temporary Contraception Exemption

Sounds like the Obama Administration is hell-bent on destroying the First Amendment Privilege that says "The government shall pass no law against religions..."

I hate the disparagement of the Christian Church.

Reverend Wright commanded his paritioners to "God damn America."

That's happening here, except insert "government" where the Lord's name is invoked in vain.

I'm tired of government harassing churches, churches WHO DID BUILD THE BUSINESSES OF CHRISTIAN CARE, in accordance with the scriptures.

And for Jeremiah Wright, chief hater in American History, he built a church around taking God's name in vain, causing racial hatred in his congregation and through its most prominent member, racism from coast to coast to goad people into doing things against themselves or being disparaged as racists, which is a false allegation I've heard time after time from the bully pulpit. It's beginning to be the bullshit pulpit, and punishing the Little Sisters of the Poor is pure dee genuine bullshit.

I've met some Little Sisters of the Poor who helped the poorest of the poor in the community on a shoestring. They've turned lives around, cared for sick and dying and people so poor they have no roof over their heads, the Little Sisters provided them with so much. What a dynamite charity they are. I'm a protestant, but my hat's off to the Little Sisters of the Poor who operated mercy and kindness to all who needed their special caring and beneficence in the humility of hard poverty themselves. They did without to see to it that poor people got a lease on life, health, education, and shelter.
What effective people the Little Sisters of the Poor are in communities I have lived in. They're something else.

The government has become a harassment outfit against churches and against the best charitable institutions we have.

They're just bent on destroying wealth to bring America down, and I'm tired of government that beats up on the Little Sisters of the Poor as their convenient whipping boy. It's flat out evil.

 

[freedombecki]

It is not that simple.
Their legal advice was to NOT SIGN THE PAPER.
I noticed this was included in Fox News's story, but not ABC News's story.
As the paper was written, the NHS could require them to still pay the cost for a second, separate policy an individual would get. So they would not be required to provide the coverage - but could still be required to pay for it...which is of course no difference as they would obviously still be providing the service.
So in other words - as written - the form was a lie.

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

They're grounded in the highest of principles of morality and right according to their beliefs, backed up by scripture.

The government needs to butt out of religious bodies who have built hospitals and funded care for the poor for centuries, generation after generation.

How dare the government violate the First Amendment.

I'm calling a very foul ball on the Obama Administration over trying to push churches around.

 

[freedombecki]

Jews weren't carted off to concentration camps until they were first had their rights stripped from them. That was justified by criminalizing them....

Which progressives the world over applauded.

Not true.

Not even close.

She's telling it like it is, Luddly. Nothing satisfied the Nazis with penalizing the Jews even before Chrystalknacht. Their behaviors against people of Jewish extraction were heinous prior to hauling them off to Auschwitz for the express purpose of annihilating the Jewish population of Europe in its entirety. The Nazis were proud of their abuse of Jews and kept fastidious records about every detail of their persecution of them from the minute the Nazis began rising to power based on anti-Semitism from their very first meeting. They left hundreds of thousands of photographs of dead Jews wherever they were slaughtered. Every instance. That's how we know exactly how many people they are recorded killing. There is pictorial evidence of everything. They celebrated their deeds much like cereal murderers do.

 

[Mertex]

No, it is taking government intervention into individual life too far.
Contraception has absolutely nothing to do with healthcare. It is a lifestyle option, not a healthcare option.

Where have you been? What do you mean that contraception has nothing to do with healthcare? It's not just to keep you from getting pregnant.....geez, you need to read more.

The conditions for which the American Academy of Family Physicians endorses the use of oral contraceptives are:

Non-Contraceptive Benefits Of The Pill - Other Benefits of Oral Contraceptives

And it is an extremely discriminatory mandate - not only on religious grounds, but it is a perfect example of gender discrimination. If it should be covered for women, why shouldn't it be covered for men?

Really? But Viagra is covered for men....don't you think that's gender discriminatory?

According to the article, they are being given the opportunity to be exempt....all they have to do is fill out a damn form, for goodness sake.....how hard is that?