Birth Control Mandate: Is this taking the Religous Liberty Exception too far?

[koshergrl]

Nope. Obamacare is just wrong on multiple levels.

It's wrong on a lot more levels as well..and the wrong levels are going to continue to pile up until they reach the moon. Because it's unconstitutional at its very core.

Right, but what I find frustrating Is the way people who ought to be united in opposition to ACA are falling for the divide and conquer strategy. Each group with strong opposition is peeled away from the fight with carve outs and exemptions until enough of us are mollified. We'll lose again.

It's that willingness to make deals with the devil that got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[paperview]

This is from the Director of Catholics United:

"On the surface, the optics of this case could not be more sensational: Obamacare forces Little Sisters of the Poor to provide contraceptive coverage for celibate women, which is against their beliefs.

But when examining the details of the case more closely, it became apparent the circumstances of this case before the Supreme Court are in actuality irresponsibly frivolous.

As per the religious accommodation finalized by the Department of Health and Human Services in November 2012, the nonprofit Little Sisters of the Poor are seeking relief from the requirement that they self-certify as a religious entity. If the Little Sisters self-certified, they would be exempted from complying with the contraceptive mandate. That is, the Little Sisters of the Poor and their legal defense team, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, are protesting the fact that a religious employer has to sign a piece of paper stating they are religious.

The Becket Fund claims doing so constitutes a substantial burden on the Little Sisters’ free exercise of religion.

The Becket Fund also falsely claims that self-certifying as a religious entity would trigger a third party health care administrator (TPA) to begin providing birth control, a medical provision they deem immoral, to their employees. As the Justice Department stipulated in court, the government does not have the legal authority under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to compel the Little Sisters’ TPA, Christian Brother Services, to provide these services. Under ERISA, independent religiously-affiliated TPAs like CB Services qualify as “church plans,” automatically exempted from the federal provisos otherwise enforced for secular employers and TPAs.

So, in addition to refusing to sign a piece of paper stating they are religious, the Little Sisters and CB Services are preventing their employees from getting medical services they were not going to get."

Un-Scandal of the Century (of the Week)! Unpacking the Latest HHS Contraceptive Mandate News | Our Daily Thread

 

[Intense]

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

The whole issue is that by signing the exemption form, their employees can then obtain that coverage elsewhere. Oh the fucking HORROR! Its the Reagan GAG ORDER all over again, but applied nationally, where it couldn't be applied then, because it didn't pass the constitutional scratch and sniff test, and STILL can't today.



Cry me a mutherfucking river.

You would think that an organization so supposedly "pro - LIFE" would be all over the means to prevent unwanted pregnancy. But its not about being pro - LIFE, its about being pro- CONTROL over and LIMITING other peoples lives and CHOICES.

Funny, from my perspective, that is exactly what the ACA does.

 

[Intense]

Thats what I got from this,the real question is why are the board detractors even care what these nun do or don't do.Its the nuns and Catholic churches money.

The intolerance and just plan school girl blubbering about something they are not involved with what so ever.

In this case, the nuns are not being asked to fund Birth Control -- the extent of their participation is signing a form saying they wish to be exempt.

That's it. Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

They're grounded in the highest of principles of morality and right according to their beliefs, backed up by scripture.

The government needs to butt out of religious bodies who have built hospitals and funded care for the poor for centuries, generation after generation.

How dare the government violate the First Amendment.

I'm calling a very foul ball on the Obama Administration over trying to push churches around.

Churches, Charities, are under attack here. It's not new.

 

[Intense]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

why won't you create your own religion where the poor take the place of god?
the hypocrisy of the militantly atheist left is just hilarious.

Your assumption that everyone on the left is atheist is just hilarious. And God happens to be concerned for the poor, mentioned more in the Bible than homosexuals, so why are those on the right, who are supposed to be Godly, not concerned for the poor, too?

Catholic faith is NOT centered around helping the poor. It is a secondary and even a tertiary problem. Neither is it a centerpiece for any religion, for that matter - and it should not be.

Christianity is, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have mentioned it so many times. He even told a rich man who wanted to know how to get into heaven, to sell all his possessions and give them to the poor....but he couldn't because he had so much.
What is your opinion about what Christianity is centered upon? Getting rich? Not paying taxes?

Christianity is rooted in Salvation. God first in all things. We each fall short, that is a given.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Assuming your characterization is correct, and I just got up and am thus too tired to go read Legalese on the links, I would assume the issue here is that by complaining about even a short form, the religious organizations are hoping to derail the entire thing. Knock one domino down, others may fall. Very unlikely the issue is really about a form.

 

[koshergrl]

Sure. Just like abortion is about *health*.

you fascist pigs work hard to distort reality.

 

[Intense]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Assuming your characterization is correct, and I just got up and am thus too tired to go read Legalese on the links, I would assume the issue here is that by complaining about even a short form, the religious organizations are hoping to derail the entire thing. Knock one domino down, others may fall. Very unlikely the issue is really about a form.

The issue includes both content and intent.

 

[BlackSand]

Your assumption that everyone on the left is atheist is just hilarious. And God happens to be concerned for the poor, mentioned more in the Bible than homosexuals, so why are those on the right, who are supposed to be Godly, not concerned for the poor, too?

Christianity is, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have mentioned it so many times. He even told a rich man who wanted to know how to get into heaven, to sell all his possessions and give them to the poor....but he couldn't because he had so much.
What is your opinion about what Christianity is centered upon? Getting rich? Not paying taxes?

Are you indicating that the righteous man's path to salvation is through government's redistribution of wealth?
.

 

[Vox]

Your assumption that everyone on the left is atheist is just hilarious. And God happens to be concerned for the poor, mentioned more in the Bible than homosexuals, so why are those on the right, who are supposed to be Godly, not concerned for the poor, too?

Christianity is, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have mentioned it so many times. He even told a rich man who wanted to know how to get into heaven, to sell all his possessions and give them to the poor....but he couldn't because he had so much.
What is your opinion about what Christianity is centered upon? Getting rich? Not paying taxes?

Are you indicating that the righteous man's path to salvation is through government's redistribution of wealth?
.

that is exactly the view over Christianity the pauperes cultists hold.

But do not expect them to pay even a penny to help the poor - their private money is sacred. It's "the others" people money which has to be sacrificed.

 

[Vox]

birth control is NOT used to treat hormonal imbalances. Hormones are. Some of the hormones are also used in the birth control preparations.
But they are not the same "pills"

educate yourself before you pose as a knowledgeable, doof.

They most certainly are too, you ass. My daughter was put on them at age 14 to control hormonal imbalances that made her sick as hell every month to the point of high temperatures and debilitating illness.

As I pointed out earlier, before The Pill was prescribed for birth control, it was used for nothing but medical issues.

And, besides, since when are we going to allow a bunch of backward and archaic people who do not lie in the real world force us back to having another baby every time we have sex?

Do any of the rw's ever really thing about this?

it was not "the pill" you dumbasses.

those are the hormones used in the pill to control the hormonal imbalances and they are covered by any insurance.

stop LYING as usual. I know it is hard. But the usual lie won't fly.

The REASON the prescribed medication is covered by any insurance ( and ANY medication) - that is what matters.

You will have viagra covered by any insurance if that is prescribed for treating pulmonary hypertension, but it won't be covered by a lot of insurances if that is prescribed for erectile dysfunction.

and this is the same medication, in case of hormonal imbalances it is NOT the same.

 

[Vox]

A waste of money on litigation the Catholics could be using to help the poor.

why won't you create your own religion where the poor take the place of god?
the hypocrisy of the militantly atheist left is just hilarious.

Your assumption that everyone on the left is atheist is just hilarious. And God happens to be concerned for the poor, mentioned more in the Bible than homosexuals, so why are those on the right, who are supposed to be Godly, not concerned for the poor, too?

Catholic faith is NOT centered around helping the poor. It is a secondary and even a tertiary problem. Neither is it a centerpiece for any religion, for that matter - and it should not be.

Christianity is, otherwise Jesus wouldn't have mentioned it so many times. He even told a rich man who wanted to know how to get into heaven, to sell all his possessions and give them to the poor....but he couldn't because he had so much.
What is your opinion about what Christianity is centered upon? Getting rich? Not paying taxes?

Christianity is NOT about helping the poor. Period.

helping the poor is a tertiary issue.

Stop LYING.

 

[Vox]

Jews weren't carted off to concentration camps until they were first had their rights stripped from them. That was justified by criminalizing them....

Which progressives the world over applauded.

Not true.

Not even close.

She's telling it like it is, Luddly. Nothing satisfied the Nazis with penalizing the Jews even before Chrystalknacht. Their behaviors against people of Jewish extraction were heinous prior to hauling them off to Auschwitz for the express purpose of annihilating the Jewish population of Europe in its entirety. The Nazis were proud of their abuse of Jews and kept fastidious records about every detail of their persecution of them from the minute the Nazis began rising to power based on anti-Semitism from their very first meeting. They left hundreds of thousands of photographs of dead Jews wherever they were slaughtered. Every instance. That's how we know exactly how many people they are recorded killing. There is pictorial evidence of everything. They celebrated their deeds much like cereal murderers do.

you expect a flaming leftard to know the facts?

ignorance of the facts is the base for the leftist ideology.

because if one knows the facts, one CAN NOT abide by leftist ideology if one is not the heartless scum.
I do not consider our leftards on the board to be especially educated or smart ( and they provide the proof of that daily) but I do not consider them ALL to be essentially vile and vicious.

 

[Vox]

Birth Control is also used to treat medical problems, doof.

In this case, it still doesn't matter - as the org do not have to provide BC, nor does their insurance company - the Christian Brothers Employee Benefit Trust.

EXEMPT. Both.

birth control is NOT used to treat hormonal imbalances. Hormones are. Some of the hormones are also used in the birth control preparations.
But they are not the same "pills"

educate yourself before you pose as a knowledgeable, doof.

They most certainly are too, you ass. My daughter was put on them at age 14 to control hormonal imbalances that made her sick as hell every month to the point of high temperatures and debilitating illness.

you idiot ignorant leftard lying mouthpiece, your daughter was put on hormonal treatment for her imbalances not on the contraceptive pill.
the hormones may coincide but the exact combination of the prescription and the REASON it is prescribed has nothing to do with the contraception.

Sildenafil is primarily used to treat pulmonary hypertension, not erectile dysfunction.

There are numerous substances which can be used for different reasons - does not mean it is going to be covered by insurance for any reason given.

but the brainwashed ignorant leftard mouthpieces just repeat the idiocy their masters are brainwashing them.

go get a book on the basic anatomy and physiology before you exhibit your total ignorance again.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

why won't you create your own religion where the poor take the place of god? I'
the hypocrisy of the militantly atheist left is just hilarious.

Catholic faith is NOT centered around helping the poor. It is a secondary and even a tertiary problem. Neither is it a centerpiece for any religion, for that matter - and it should not be.

So, creating the Church of Pauperes Cultus can be your next business
project, Moonglow
l'll ke 10% of profits for providing the idea

Helping those in need is indeed an essential tenet of Christianity. Absolutely. Anyone who says differently is off his rocker.

Maybe not according to the new revised GOP Bible. I understand that Phyllis Shaffly's son is rewriting the Bible..... he's taking all the parts out that they have a hard time with.

And, if the "christians" on this board are any indication, they do indeed have a hard time with "helping those in need".

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is from the Director of Catholics United:

"On the surface, the optics of this case could not be more sensational: Obamacare forces Little Sisters of the Poor to provide contraceptive coverage for celibate women, which is against their beliefs.

But when examining the details of the case more closely, it became apparent the circumstances of this case before the Supreme Court are in actuality irresponsibly frivolous.

As per the religious accommodation finalized by the Department of Health and Human Services in November 2012, the nonprofit Little Sisters of the Poor are seeking relief from the requirement that they self-certify as a religious entity. If the Little Sisters self-certified, they would be exempted from complying with the contraceptive mandate. That is, the Little Sisters of the Poor and their legal defense team, the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, are protesting the fact that a religious employer has to sign a piece of paper stating they are religious.

The Becket Fund claims doing so constitutes a substantial burden on the Little Sisters’ free exercise of religion.

The Becket Fund also falsely claims that self-certifying as a religious entity would trigger a third party health care administrator (TPA) to begin providing birth control, a medical provision they deem immoral, to their employees. As the Justice Department stipulated in court, the government does not have the legal authority under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to compel the Little Sisters’ TPA, Christian Brother Services, to provide these services. Under ERISA, independent religiously-affiliated TPAs like CB Services qualify as “church plans,” automatically exempted from the federal provisos otherwise enforced for secular employers and TPAs.

So, in addition to refusing to sign a piece of paper stating they are religious, the Little Sisters and CB Services are preventing their employees from getting medical services they were not going to get."

Un-Scandal of the Century (of the Week)! Unpacking the Latest HHS Contraceptive Mandate News | Our Daily Thread

Catholics United for what? I find it astounding that, instead of actually defending your position yourself, you decided to link to an attack piece written by someone who claims to be the executive director of a group that doesn't include a link to that group. (That's a lie, but this is the new, less offensive, and more sarcastic, me.) That inspired me to do a little research, and I found a webpage for the group, and found out that they have a staff of one.

About Us | Catholics United

Color me amused.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The DOJ responded tpoday to Sonia Sotomayor's Injunction issued on New Years Eve.

Nuns' Objection To Health Care Law Is Unwarranted, Justice Dept. Says : The Two-Way : NPR

That emanated from this:

Sonia Sotomayor halts contraceptive rule for Denver center - Jennifer Haberkorn - POLITICO.com

The matter in this case boils down to filling out a short form form. Just filing an automatic waiver.

That's it.

Catholic Employers Claim That Filling Out an Obamacare Form Violates Their Religious Freedom

"Late on New Year's Eve, Justice Sonia Sotomayor granted a small number of religiously affiliated groups a temporary injunction from a provision in the Affordable Care Act that allows them not to cover contraception in their health care plans if they fill out a form that states that they want an exemption from the law for religious reasons.

Go ahead and read that sentence again.

These Catholic non-profits that wanted an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—and got an exemption from covering their employees' contraception needs—are now fighting the provision (that exempts them from covering their employees' contraception needs) simply because they don't want to have to fill out a form that states that they are exempt.

Why? Because their employees need that form in order to get birth control directly from their insurers (which they need to do because their employers—these Catholic non-profits—are exempt, as they want to be)."

Justice Sotomayor grants temporary injunction to Catholic groups who say filling out an Obamacare form about contraception violates their religious freedom.

Yes, filling out a form. Nothing more.

Their religious sensibilities are insulted by merely stating on paper they have religious objections.

Now, you may agree that religious organizations should not be forced to contribute to a health plan that makes them pay for Birth Control - and I do too,

but do you think the mere act of filing out a form is taking the Religious Liberty exception just a bit too far?

Does religious liberty extend to the right to not have to fill out paperwork?

Assuming your characterization is correct, and I just got up and am thus too tired to go read Legalese on the links, I would assume the issue here is that by complaining about even a short form, the religious organizations are hoping to derail the entire thing. Knock one domino down, others may fall. Very unlikely the issue is really about a form.

It amuses me that you think an organization that supported Obamacare wants to derail the whole thing simply because you are too fucking stupid to assume that one side of the issue might be lying about what the other side is saying.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Helping those in need is indeed an essential tenet of Christianity. Absolutely. Anyone who says differently is off his rocker.

Maybe not according to the new revised GOP Bible. I understand that Phyllis Shaffly's son is rewriting the Bible..... he's taking all the parts out that they have a hard time with.

And, if the "christians" on this board are any indication, they do indeed have a hard time with "helping those in need".

Or, just a thought, the leftists on this board are a bunch of fuckwads who would rather get in a high dudgeon about dogma than actually help people.

 

[koshergrl]

Not only do they spend a lot of energy telling us how we should express our political views, they're also committed to telling us how to express our faith.

Cuz they have super secret inside information, and are just more knowledgeable about EVERYTHING.

 

[Vox]

Not only do they spend a lot of energy telling us how we should express our political views, they're also committed to telling us how to express our faith.

Cuz they have super secret inside information, and are just more knowledgeable about EVERYTHING.

but the most comical in all of that are the arguments they use to convince us

those are so incredibly ignorant and stupid - birth control pill is used to treat the hormonal imbalances and won't be covered if birth control is not covered; Christianity is all about helping the poor - as the most glaring examples of the idiocy of the left.

Just connecting the two - why do our leftards equate "helping the poor" with providing "free" birth control?
Because all of them are eugenicists and hope to exterminate the poor?