blacks protest annual confederacy celebration

[2aguy]

I mentioned rape because it was legal for slavers to rape their slaves back then too. So answer my question you coward, what's wrong with using today's standards? My standards are universal. Slavery and rape were always wrong and I don't give a shit if your silly book told you otherwise. Are you arguing that you think there was a time when slavery and rape where okay? By the way your Bible is also okay with rape. In fact it says if you rape someone's daughter the punishment is to pay the father a brides fee and then to take the woman you raped as your wife. Is that what you think is moral? You think women should marry their rapists?

Dipshit........in a primitive society without actual working prisons....you are forced to take the responsibility for the woman you raped...in order to keep men from doing it......if they are on the hook for lifelong support of their victims and any children produced, in a primitive, hunting gathering, herding society, it makes it a lot less attractive to rape a woman....you dipshit...

You idiots all look at the bible from modern standards and issues...without understanding the underlying conditions facing the people at the time....you moron.

 

[2aguy]

Confederates fought for their states’ sovereignty against an overbearing federal government. A replay of the American revolution.
Slavery was a way of life in past centuries. You can’t fairly apply today’s standards to other eras. Those who do are nefarious. Those who don’t recognize that are dupes.

Republicans have to get smarter about this...States Rights are a good thing as a check on the Federal government...but you don't have to use the democrat party slave states as examples of States Rights........the democrat party needs to be held responsible for slavery, jim crow, the klan...don't let them fool you into taking their side for their evil use of States Rights....

 

[2aguy]

Confederates fought for state sovereignty. Noble.
Blacks are institutional self-segregating racists thanks to the democrat party. Blacks who don’t aspire to that description are marginalized by the propagandists and their dupes.

No....democrats used the concept of States Rights to commit evil.....today, Republicans use States Rights to combat another evil...the encroachment of the Federal Government on all aspects of private life.....

Don't try to justify the democrats using States Rights for evil in the defense of States Rights....

 

[Curried Goats]

Why would republicans care? Those idiots were democrats, not republicans...which is the main reason democrats are tearing down those statues......they can't afford for blacks to start thinking about who those statues represent....

Then why is it that so far the only person in this thread that has spoken fondly of Confederates is someone who despises todays Democrats? You can try and pretend all you want but the people who put those statues up were called the Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy and they did it to honor those piece of shit slavers, not to teach that they were pieces of shit and the people who are going to defend the continued idolatry of those pieces of shit are southern conservatives. You can't hide those facts and they are staring you in the face in this very thread. Stop making a fool of yourself.

Dipshit........in a primitive society without actual working prisons....you are forced to take the responsibility for the woman you raped...in order to keep men from doing it......if they are on the hook for lifelong support of their victims and any children produced, in a primitive, hunting gathering, herding society, it makes it a lot less attractive to rape a woman....you dipshit...

Are you trying to argue the morality of forcing women to marry their rapists while calling me a dipshit? Let me ask you this genius, if they had the capacity to enforce these forced marriages and they had the capacity to enforce slavery, then they had ability to force rapists into slavery, isn't that so? Instead they forced the women who where raped into being the property of their rapists. This wasnt due to some inability it was how they chose to order their society just as early Americans chose to order their society around the enslavement of Africans.

You idiots all look at the bible from modern standards and issues...without understanding the underlying conditions facing the people at the time....you moron.

Again my standards are universal. Rape and slavery have always been wrong. If you want to argue that this isn't the case you need to come better than telling me this was the best they could do. Prisons and slavery existed at the time, maybe not like we have today but they absolutely had the capability to hold people in bondage. They chose not to and instead chose to force women into the bondage of their rapists. They did this not because of some inability to punish rapists, in fact you yourself are arguing they had the ability to enforce these marriages as a punishment. They chose this as punishment because the victim of rape to them wasn't the woman but her father to whom she belonged. It was he who was denied a brides price for his sullied daughter and he they were concerned with compensating.

 

[Curried Goats]

And the Holocaust was worse than American Slavery. Is there some relevant point to your posts?

Holocaust was the worst Atrocity in History.

Why is the Holocaust the worst atrocity in history? It was horrible but it lasted 4 years. It's perpetrators were hunted down after the war, tried and executed and its victims were given international aide, reparations by Germany and the UN helped create the nation of Israel.

American slavery on the other hand lasted hundreds of years and saw the systematic rape and violence and separation of black families through countless generations. And what happened to their perpetrators? Well they are honored and revered throughout American society. Their statues dot our landscape, their names are represented in our cities and towns and streets and schools and our money. American slavery is an atrocity that has yet to end because Americans still venerate the slavers and its perfectly okay. Its not seen as strange in the way venerating Nazis is.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Apples and Oranges. American Slavery was less cruel than in the rest of the Western Hemisphere.

Based on what?

 

[2aguy]

Then why is it that so far the only person in this thread that has spoken fondly of Confederates is someone who despises todays Democrats? You can try and pretend all you want but the people who put those statues up were called the Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy and they did it to honor those piece of shit slavers, not to teach that they were pieces of shit and the people who are going to defend the continued idolatry of those pieces of shit are southern conservatives. You can't hide those facts and they are staring you in the face in this very thread. Stop making a fool of yourself.


Are you trying to argue the morality of forcing women to marry their rapists while calling me a dipshit? Let me ask you this genius, if they had the capacity to enforce these forced marriages and they had the capacity to enforce slavery, then they had ability to force rapists into slavery, isn't that so? Instead they forced the women who where raped into being the property of their rapists. This wasnt due to some inability it was how they chose to order their society just as early Americans chose to order their society around the enslavement of Africans.

Again my standards are universal. Rape and slavery have always been wrong. If you want to argue that this isn't the case you need to come better than telling me this was the best they could do. Prisons and slavery existed at the time, maybe not like we have today but they absolutely had the capability to hold people in bondage. They chose not to and instead chose to force women into the bondage of their rapists. They did this not because of some inability to punish rapists, in fact you yourself are arguing they had the ability to enforce these marriages as a punishment. They chose this as punishment because the victim of rape to them wasn't the woman but her father to whom she belonged. It was he who was denied a brides price for his sullied daughter and he they were concerned with compensating.

Mankind at the time was in its infancy trying to work out complicated issues of crime, punishment and culture and you hold them and their solutions to our standards? Are you this stupid in real life or just when you post?

Yes, the democrats put up those statues to honor their war dead…..but after about a hundred years they become history……you idiot….I have no problem using those statues to point out the crimes against humanity committed by the democrat party.

 

[2aguy]

Why is the Holocaust the worst atrocity in history? It was horrible but it lasted 4 years. It's perpetrators were hunted down after the war, tried and executed and its victims were given international aide, reparations by Germany and the UN helped create the nation of Israel.

American slavery on the other hand lasted hundreds of years and saw the systematic rape and violence and separation of black families through countless generations. And what happened to their perpetrators? Well they are honored and revered throughout American society. Their statues dot our landscape, their names are represented in our cities and towns and streets and schools and our money. American slavery is an atrocity that has yet to end because Americans still venerate the slavers and its perfectly okay. Its not seen as strange in the way venerating Nazis is.

Dipshit…..again you refuse to understand different culture based on the age of mankind……slavery was universal and it took Christian’s a long time to change the perspective on slavery….taking on the whole world to do it……

No…..some foolish Americans who primarily vote for the racist, slave owning democrat party honor those democrats……and then you have the democrat party leaders desperately trying to tear those statues do n before blacks realize the democrat party was the slave owning party

 

[Curried Goats]

Mankind at the time was in its infancy trying to work out complicated issues of crime, punishment and culture and you hold them and their solutions to our standards? Are you this stupid in real life or just when you post?

What were you saying previously about people who use insults as arguments? I may use insults but they are not my arguments, they are flourishes I add to the end of arguments.

Mankind was not in its infancy. Homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and human civilizations have been around for tens of thousands. In that context the last 2,000 years of humanity has been a tiny blip. Those men were as capable of logical thought as I am today. If you want to make the argument that humans have evolved since then, which is an argument about biology then you must prove your argument using biology. If your argument isn't a biological one then what is it? By who's standards should I judge slavers other than by my own? Should I consider the opinion of murderers to judge whether murder is wrong?

Yes, the democrats put up those statues to honor their war dead…..but after about a hundred years they become history……you idiot….I have no problem using those statues to point out the crimes against humanity committed by the democrat party.

Does this mean you're also against knocking down old buildings because they're "history"? Our buildings, roads, culture and art shouldn't evolve with the times? That's a silly argument. Confederate history doesn't rest solely in statues and just because they've been there a really long time is no argument for why they can't be removed today. That is an argument resting in sentiment not logic. There is no logical argument that removing a statue erases knowledge of the past. In fact there is an argument to be made that these statues teach false history. They depict these men as galant and noble rather than the pieces of shits they really were and that's partly why people like RoshawnMarkwees still venerate them. You could maybe make that case if anyone was advocating for erasing all knowledge of the Confederacy but no one is doing that.

Dipshit…..again you refuse to understand different culture based on the age of mankind……slavery was universal and it took Christian’s a long time to change the perspective on slavery….taking on the whole world to do it……

What do you mean when you say slavery was Universal? What does its pervasiveness have to do with its morality? I never said that slavery wasn't common back then I said it was never moral. Don't confuse socially acceptable with moral.

No…..some foolish Americans who primarily vote for the racist, slave owning democrat party honor those democrats……and then you have the democrat party leaders desperately trying to tear those statues do n before blacks realize the democrat party was the slave owning party

That's an interesting argument but considering the only person in this thread to so far honor Confederates thinks today's Democrats are deplorable Marxists its not a very convincing one. Can you explain RoshawnMarkwees position in light of your argument? Can you provide any examples of these supposed Democrats who love them some Confederacy?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Republicans have to get smarter about this...States Rights are a good thing as a check on the Federal government...but you don't have to use the democrat party slave states as examples of States Rights........the democrat party needs to be held responsible for slavery, jim crow, the klan...don't let them fool you into taking their side for their evil use of States Rights....

Jim Crow and KKK-era southern states are a completely different thing from the confederacy. It’s the former who misused the confederates’ legacy and who today’s demmunist opportunists use as means to destroy American history.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

No....democrats used the concept of States Rights to commit evil.....today, Republicans use States Rights to combat another evil...the encroachment of the Federal Government on all aspects of private life.....

Don't try to justify the democrats using States Rights for evil in the defense of States Rights....

Again, you’re conflating the confederacy with the post-civil war south.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

What were you saying previously about people who use insults as arguments? I may use insults but they are not my arguments, they are flourishes I add to the end of arguments.

Mankind was not in its infancy. Homo sapiens have been around for hundreds of thousands of years and human civilizations have been around for tens of thousands. In that context the last 2,000 years of humanity has been a tiny blip. Those men were as capable of logical thought as I am today. If you want to make the argument that humans have evolved since then, which is an argument about biology then you must prove your argument using biology. If your argument isn't a biological one then what is it? By who's standards should I judge slavers other than by my own? Should I consider the opinion of murderers to judge whether murder is wrong?

Does this mean you're also against knocking down old buildings because they're "history"? Our buildings, roads, culture and art shouldn't evolve with the times? That's a silly argument. Confederate history doesn't rest solely in statues and just because they've been there a really long time is no argument for why they can't be removed today. That is an argument resting in sentiment not logic. There is no logical argument that removing a statue erases knowledge of the past. In fact there is an argument to be made that these statues teach false history. They depict these men as galant and noble rather than the pieces of shits they really were and that's partly why people like RoshawnMarkwees still venerate them. You could maybe make that case if anyone was advocating for erasing all knowledge of the Confederacy but no one is doing that.

What do you mean when you say slavery was Universal? What does its pervasiveness have to do with its morality? I never said that slavery wasn't common back then I said it was never moral. Don't confuse socially acceptable with moral.

That's an interesting argument but considering the only person in this thread to so far honor Confederates thinks today's Democrats are deplorable Marxists its not a very convincing one. Can you explain RoshawnMarkwees position in light of your argument? Can you provide any examples of these supposed Democrats who love them some Confederacy?

Dude, you just bit off your own foot.
You want to distinguish today’s democrats from Dixiecrats but you can’t put context to different eras when it doesn’t fit your narrative.

 

[Curried Goats]

Dude, you just bit off your own foot.
You want to distinguish today’s democrats from Dixiecrats but you can’t put context to different eras when it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I asked you plenty of times to clarify yourself and you did. You belive today's Democrats are Marxists and old slave owning Democrats were noble. Those are your own words. Not mine.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I asked you plenty of times to charity yourself and you did. You belive today's Democrats are Marxists and old slave owning Democrats were noble. Those are your own words. Not mine.

“Slave-owning democrats” is your term, not mine. Don’t lie.
Very few confederates owned slaves. Most people of that era were in survival mode. A typical home would look like what we consider a homestead today. Standards were very different but Marxist dems like you refuse to consider that context because it doesn’t fit your bias. By the same token, many repubs want to conflate todays dems with Jim Crow era dems. Both are equally bad but for different reasons and got there by different means.

 

[Curried Goats]

“Slave-owning democrats” is your term, not mine. Don’t lie.

What's the lie? They were Democrats who owned slaves, founded a country based on the permanent enslavement of black people and went to war to protect that way of life. None of that is a lie. You call them noble and I call them piece of shit slavers. These are our opinions. You think those slavers were noble and I think they were pieces of shit. We are all entitled to our own opinions of them.

Very few confederates owned slaves. Most people of that era were in survival mode. A typical home would look like what we consider a homestead today. Standards were very different but Marxist dems like you refuse to consider that context because it doesn’t fit your bias. By the same token, many repubs want to conflate todays dems with Jim Crow era dems. Both are equally bad but for different reasons and got there by different means.

The notion that very few Confederates owned slaves is a matter of opinion. What constitutes a few? I prefer to argue in fact, not opinion. In some Confederate States up to 40% of families owned at least one slave. Is that just a few? Regardless they all fought to preserve a society and economy that rested on the backs of slave labor and they enforced this economic and social reality with brutality, what context can you provide that will make that noble?

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

What's the lie? They were Democrats who owned slaves, founded a country based on the permanent enslavement of black people and went to war to protect that way of life. None of that is a lie. You call them noble and I call them piece of shit slavers. These are our opinions. You think those slavers were noble and I think they were pieces of shit. We are all entitled to our own opinions of them.

The notion that very few Confederates owned slaves is a matter of opinion. What constitutes a few? I prefer to argue in fact, not opinion. In some Confederate States up to 40% of families owned at least one slave. Is that just a few? Regardless they all fought to preserve a society and economy that rested on the backs of slave labor and they enforced this economic and social reality with brutality, what context can you provide that will make that noble?

I seriously doubt your propaganda stat.
Slavery was a way of life. Standards change over time.
Refusing to apply that context would invalidate all history which is exactly what demmunists are doing and what you have been duped by.

 

[Curried Goats]

I seriously doubt your propaganda stat.
Slavery was a way of life. Standards change over time.
Refusing to apply that context would invalidate all history which is exactly what demmunists are doing and what you have been duped by.

Slavery was a way of life because slavers were in charge, that doesn't make it moral. You are confusing socially acceptable and legal with moral. Today in many states abortion is legal and yet many Christians decry it as immoral.

 

[jwoodie]

I said Virginia hoped to preserve slavery without violence, learn to read you moron. Obviously those hopes were dashed when Lincoln ordered troops to the South. Their choice to join the Confederacy after that is in fact more evidence that the South was fighting to preserve slavery. All you're doing is helping to prove my point.

Yes, you said that and I repeated your words back to you. It is apparently you who can't read.

Virginia's choice to join the Confederacy only after Lincoln ordered troops to the South is not "more evidence that it was fighting to preserve slavery" but the reverse, as with North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas. Did you know that the slave states of Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri stayed in the Union during the Civil War? Why weren't they "fighting to preserve slavery?"

 

[Curried Goats]

Yes, you said that and I repeated your words back to you. It is apparently you who can't read.

Virginia's choice to join the Confederacy only after Lincoln ordered troops to the South is not more evidence that it was fighting to preserve slavery but the reverse, as with North Carolina, Tennessee and Arkansas. Did you know that the slave states of Maryland, Kentucky and Missouri stayed

What do those States staying have to do with other States choosing to secede and fight in order to preserve slavery? The inaction of some isn't evidence of the motivation of others. As I said, they themselves made it clear that they were leaving the Union to form a society based around the permanent enslavement of black people and that they would go to war to preserve that way of life.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Slavery was a way of life because slavers were in charge, that doesn't make it moral. You are confusing socially acceptable and legal with moral. Today in many states abortion is legal and yet many Christians decry it as immoral.

You don’t think that any pro-abortion people should be granted context? You consider them all to be traitors? What if only 5% of democrats were involved with a legal abortion? Would you hold all democrats accountable?
FYI…

“Less than 5% of the whites in the South owned slaves. Fully 3/4's of the white people of the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery or the plantation system.

This was written by none other than the late John Hope Franklin in From Slavery to Freedom, McGraw-Hill, 1994., p. 123. Franklin was a Harvard educated Professor Emeritus of History and Professor of Legal History at Duke University. Dr. Franklin also happened to be a Black man.”