Blue Ridge hotel defies Park Service shutdown

[Pogo]

As usual, the wingnuts don't quite have it right...

few hours after TPM's spoke with Stepp, a spokesperson for the National Park Service sent an email to TPM, saying the agency believes there may have been a "misunderstanding by [the Department of Natural Resources] about the contents of the letter that have resulted in some of the stories that claim they were ordered to close."

"Under a cooperative agreement, the federal government provides funding through the National Park Service to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (DNR) for administration of the Ice Age National Scientific Reserve (NSR)," Mike Litterst, acting chief spokesman for the National Parks Service, wrote in the email. "Due to the government shutdown, there was no longer funding available with which to make grant payments to the DNR and on October 1 notice was given to them to suspend performance of all activities funded by that agreement. There was no directive from the National Park Service to cease operations; we merely informed them that the payments through their cooperative agreement would cease for the period of the shutdown. It was left to the discretion of the DNR how to best deal with the curtailed funding."

Did The Feds Really Order Scott Walker To Shut Down Wisconsin Parks?

Ruh roh. Spin cycle off the rails.

The Fox News source in the OP should have been a clue. Live by the conspiracy theory; die by the facts.

 

[daveman]

As usual, the wingnuts don't quite have it right...

few hours after TPM's spoke with Stepp, a spokesperson for the National Park Service sent an email to TPM, saying the agency believes there may have been a "misunderstanding by [the Department of Natural Resources] about the contents of the letter that have resulted in some of the stories that claim they were ordered to close."

"Under a cooperative agreement, the federal government provides funding through the National Park Service to the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (DNR) for administration of the Ice Age National Scientific Reserve (NSR)," Mike Litterst, acting chief spokesman for the National Parks Service, wrote in the email. "Due to the government shutdown, there was no longer funding available with which to make grant payments to the DNR and on October 1 notice was given to them to suspend performance of all activities funded by that agreement. There was no directive from the National Park Service to cease operations; we merely informed them that the payments through their cooperative agreement would cease for the period of the shutdown. It was left to the discretion of the DNR how to best deal with the curtailed funding."

Did The Feds Really Order Scott Walker To Shut Down Wisconsin Parks?

So why was the boat ramp barricaded off?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Left out" as in "misled and then failed to clarify". Here's the wording in the article:

>> Inn owner Bruce O'Connell confirmed to The Washington Times that rangers were parked at the entrance to his inn... <<

Except it ain't his inn; it's the gummint's. What Bruce owns is the business of running the inn, for the term of his lease.

As to whether the gummint's in violation of that lease, I don't have a copy of it so I don't know what provision might be in there for gumint shutdowns, but what I read did mention that they told O'Connell he was in violation.

Funny, I read that article three times, it clearly states he owns the concession, and you claim it is misleading. Want to explain how?

Funny you didn't read the post of mine that you quoted, since it would have answered that question before you asked it. Now look where you are.

Maybe I should use smaller words, I just can't think of any that actually describe the situation. Legally, he does own the inn. He just doesn't own the access to it, or the land it is on.

If anything goes wrong as a direct result of a guest's stay at the inn the park service is not liable. If an employee has a complaint about the labor practices the park service is not liable. If the inn burns to the ground the park service is not liable. They are not liable because they do not own the inn.

You can spin all day long, and claim the article is misleading, but the only one trying to mislead anyone is you. The park service is deliberately causing grief to Carroll, his employees, and his guests, and you are passing the Kool Aid off as nectar.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What the Moonie Times left out:

Bruce O'Connell, described in the article as the "owner" of the Inn, isn't the owner after all. He leases the place from the National Park Service.

So...leasing from the government which means you are actually paying them for the land use is beholden to the government being funded that has no bearing on your business but since they are closed down you can't be open to provide them income.

Does the owner now get his lease reduced for the time his business is closed by the government that is providing nothing?

I hope he sues them for lost revenue.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Or maybe just haven't been drinking the Kool-Aid. How is it today?
Sorry, I just can't fuel on assumptions.

I guess you believed them when they told you it was juice.

If it helps you get over your superiority delusion the park service has openly admitted they have ordered their employees to make life difficult for the public.

And if it helps you get over your internet message board delusions, the National Park Service is not the President of the United States.

Who knew.

Why the fuck would you say that? Are you Confusing the voices in your head with reality again?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So...leasing from the government which means you are actually paying them for the land use is beholden to the government being funded that has no bearing on your business but since they are closed down you can't be open to provide them income.

Does the owner now get his lease reduced for the time his business is closed by the government that is providing nothing?

Without having a copy of the lease in hand, we don't know. But it seems a reasonable case.

Hey maybe the Moonie Times knows. There's a reliable source.

You said the land was being leased and made the argument that that was the reason they should be shut down during this funding negotiation. So now you are thinking maybe that's not the best course of action?

You want consistency form a pro big government hack?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Without having a copy of the lease in hand, we don't know. But it seems a reasonable case.

Hey maybe the Moonie Times knows. There's a reliable source.

You said the land was being leased and made the argument that that was the reason they should be shut down during this funding negotiation. So now you are thinking maybe that's not the best course of action?

I didn't take a position on the best course of action. I don't know all the details (like the lease) and I make it a point not to comment based on assumption. It does sound kind of mindless on the surface, but again the surface is all I'm in a position to see.

I'm just pointing out that the Moonie Times, the source quoted in the OP, is deliberately slanting the story.

Should I point out the obvious fact that you are assuming that the government owns the inn?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Nope you're not the dear leader, you're just one of his zombie lackeys. And the man owns the place just as any franchisee owns any franchise business.

So you're incapable of admitting the Moonie Times lied. Why am I not surprised...

No, the man doesn't own the place. The gummint owns the place. He owns his business, which is an abstract concept.

They didn't lie, he owns the business, show me where there was a claim he owned the facilities. I know it's hard for zombies like you to understand because you've had you head so far up your dear leaders ass for so long your probably oxygen deprived but did you know it's actually possible to own a trucking company and not own a truck?

Actually, if this is a standard national park concession lease, he is responsible for all the upkeep on the facilities, has to pay the taxes, and might even be required to restore the land to its original condition if he wants to opt out of the lease. He even pays the park service an additional fee to manage the local boating area.

 

[daveman]

What the Moonie Times left out:

Bruce O'Connell, described in the article as the "owner" of the Inn, isn't the owner after all. He leases the place from the National Park Service.

In other words: he owns the business and leases the building. This is VERY common.

Of course it is. Nobody says it isn't "common".

I'm not your dear fucking leader, thanks anyway.

I'm just telling you the NPS owns the place. And they're shorted by the shutdown.
Isn't it interesting that the Moonie Times lied about that?

Meanwhile, you actually think the President of the United States takes time out of his day to see that the Pisgah Inn closes? Really?

I repeat:

Yeah? So? Around here, there are three companies that lease land from the Corps of Engineers to operate marinas...and they're remaining open.

Once again, as in the "textbook" malarkey, ascribing conclusions that were never drawn to a simple observation.

There is no "so what". The point wasn't on a "so what"; it was on the Moonie Times. Nice try attempting to bury that, but there it sits. Sorry to burst the conspiracy theorist bubble but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Hey, know what would be a cool idea? Let's just repost the last 100 posts where this was already beaten to death. Start without me.

Yeah. You ever going to get around to claiming the Times lied, or are you going to insist it's so because you SAY it's so?

You know -- your usual way of backing up your claims.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Show me the lease. I don't have all night.

Upset that you got caught out on your fake claim of neutrality and never posting based on assumptions?

The difference between us is that I am assuming that the government is wrong because they have a pretty good track record of being wrong when it comes to government shutdowns, and they are shutting down a lot of places that never shut down in history, including places that are actually privately owned and have never been on on government property, while you are assuming that the government is right based on your pathetic need to defend the government.

In other words, I can provide multiple examples from the last few days that clearly show that the government is overstepping its authority, and all you can do is scream "Show me the lease."

Here is my response, if they are right to do this under the lease, show me and I will admit they are wrong. If you want proof the government is wrong, open your eyes and look at everything else they are doing. Only an idiot would argue that every single case where the government shut down things they had no business closing requires separate proof that each action was wrong.

 

[OKTexas]

One of the largest OTR carriers in the country does not own a single tractor.

Yep, I leased equipment to a company that had 14,000 trucks and all were leased, they didn't own one.

My company is the same way...we own trailers, but tractors and straight trucks are all Ryder. (Which is dreadful, but that's another rant.) The company wasn't CR England, was it? (That's who I was referring to.)

No, at that time is was ACE Trans but the name has changed now, they had no company dirvers and the company owned no equipment, it was all leased.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ten days ago, every nutter here would have voted to defund all national parks, monuments and museums.

Today they are the most ardent defenders of these institutions.

Tomorrow, will they approve funding for more national parks? I wonder?

Fucking overbearing bullshit.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OKTexas remains merely one of those who believe they know all, see all, understand all while, in fact, has not a clue.

Wow...talk about pure projection!

Nah, that's your hero, Rush.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Obama is called "no drama Obama" because he comes across as "low key" and relaxed.

When these white winger come up with saying he has "tantrums" and such, they are fucking delusional.

He is also called Obama Hitler. Personally, I think the no drama moniker is more of a stretch.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Obama is called "no drama Obama" because he comes across as "low key" and relaxed.

When these white winger come up with saying he has "tantrums" and such, they are fucking delusional.

He is also called Obama Hitler. Personally, I think the no drama moniker is more of a stretch.

Yeah? But then, you think Sarah Palin is a viable choice to lead this nation. Therefore, what you think really cannot be taken seriously. Can it?

 

[Two Thumbs]

Ten days ago, every nutter here would have voted to defund all national parks, monuments and museums.

Today they are the most ardent defenders of these institutions.

Tomorrow, will they approve funding for more national parks? I wonder?

Fucking overbearing bullshit.

How does that make it ok to us government intimidation to shut down private business?


I almost never tempted to use nazi comparisons, but if the rangers aren't acting like jack booted thugs.....

 

[Amelia]

Ten days ago, every nutter here would have voted to defund all national parks, monuments and museums.

Today they are the most ardent defenders of these institutions.

Tomorrow, will they approve funding for more national parks? I wonder?

Fucking overbearing bullshit.

How does that make it ok to us government intimidation to shut down private business?


I almost never tempted to use nazi comparisons, but if the rangers aren't acting like jack booted thugs.....

Not fair to blame the rangers. Obama is the thug trying to squeeze as many little people as possible. The rangers have to do what they're told, as long as they're not killing anyone or anything.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

OKTexas remains merely one of those who believe they know all, see all, understand all while, in fact, has not a clue.

He reminds you of you?

The fact is that Obama has thrown no tantrum, but has the numbers, the will of the people, and time on his side.

Funny, all the polls I read show he is in the low 40s for job approval, that most people want smaller government, want to get rid of Obamacare, and that they even approve of the government shutdown. The only way he gets positive numbers is if the poll deliberately asks about all three things together.

But, always remember, Jake is a Republican.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ten days ago, every nutter here would have voted to defund all national parks, monuments and museums.

Today they are the most ardent defenders of these institutions.

Tomorrow, will they approve funding for more national parks? I wonder?

Fucking overbearing bullshit.

Actually, I would have voted to privatize them, just like this one already is. But, please, keep posting.

 

[Two Thumbs]

Ten days ago, every nutter here would have voted to defund all national parks, monuments and museums.

Today they are the most ardent defenders of these institutions.

Tomorrow, will they approve funding for more national parks? I wonder?

Fucking overbearing bullshit.

How does that make it ok to us government intimidation to shut down private business?


I almost never tempted to use nazi comparisons, but if the rangers aren't acting like jack booted thugs.....

Not fair to blame the rangers. Obama is the thug trying to squeeze as many little people as possible. The rangers have to do what they're told, as long as they're not killing anyone or anything.

They don't have to follow illegal orders