Both Sides of the Gun Debate Need to Listen to This

[Geaux4it]

I find it very difficult to understand how anyone can deny the rational comments expressed

-Geaux

 

[hunarcy]

Canada, as well as every other small penis average size countries have rational gun laws, why not the United States?

Canada has growing gun crime....we have gun crime that is going down....

Canada.....

Police can't explain increase in shootings in Toronto | CBC News

The two shootings come as Toronto is experiencing a year of increased gun violence, up 35 per cent from last year. The number of victims has also increased, up by 80 per cent over last August, according to police statistics.

Deputy Chief Peter Sloly can't say why there have been so many shootings this year, adding that he's noticed an uptick in gun violence across the country.

"It's a concerning trend we're seeing this year," Sloly told CBC News. "We've put extra resources on the street, we've got extra intelligence coming in, we have extra support from our communities."

But Mayor John Tory thinks he knows why the city is witnessing so much gun play.

"There's some level of gang activity involved," he said. "There is the illegal gun trade that continues to be a real problem especially when it comes to the Canada-U.S. border."


-----------
Firearms: Making sense of Toronto’s cycle of violence

The number of people killed or injured by guns in Toronto so far this year is already higher than 2014, reversing a recent downward trend. But while gun violence appears to be going up in Ontario’s capital, criminologists say this apparent increase in gun violence doesn’t necessarily mean the city is becoming more dangerous.
This week alone, there have been seven shootings over a span of four days, two of them fatal, Toronto Police spokeswoman Caroline de Kloet said Friday.

********

Mr. Pugash said the number of shooting events this year – 162, as of Aug. 20 – is now on par with the number on the same date in 2012, the year police previously noted a spike in gun violence.


Police don’t know the reasons behind this year’s increase, Mr. Pugash said, and it’s an issue that could be impacted by an “infinite number of factors.”


Toronto Sun

TORONTO - Welcome to Toronto’s Summer of the Gun 2015.

It’s a headline neither Toronto Police nor city hall want to see.

There is no question statistics can be made to look a lot of different ways, but some statistics are just plain ugly.

Scary, actually.

For example, 36 more people have been shot so far this year in Toronto than at this point last year.

Toronto Police statistics show a 90% increase in people wounded by gunfire and a 48% increase in shootings (135 compared to 91).

And there have been 106 more shooting victims (those hit by gunfire, as well as those victimized by it).

In fact, the 227 shooting victims so far this year is 31 more than the total for all of 2014.

It’s true not all shooting victims have been hit by gunfire, but as Deputy Chief Peter Sloly points out, every gun shot, whether into the air or a tree, is one that could ricochet and strike an innocent victim like we saw in 2012 when a two-year-old was hit.

If you add the death and injury statistics, Toronto has seen 88 dead or wounded by gunfire in 2015 compared to 53 at this time last year. That’s a 66% increase.

It’s a big spike.

Shocking, horrifying numbers that seem to have just snuck up on us.

Many seem worried about the controversial carding issue, but these scary stats aren’t getting the same media attention. It doesn’t feel like a particularly violent summer, but the stats indicate otherwise.





And more, with stories...



'Brazen criminals' behind spike in Toronto gun crime, says deputy chief | CBC News



Another Canadian city with gun crime....



UPDATED: Why does Moncton have such high gun-crime rates?

United States....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Vegas. October 1, 2017, 58 dead, 500+ injured because it's more important to sell guns than to protect peoples lives.

Nice, France. July 14, 2016, 86 dead 458 injured because it's more important to allow people to drive trucks than to protect people's lives.

 

[OnePercenter]

Canada, as well as every other small penis average size countries have rational gun laws, why not the United States?

Canada has growing gun crime....we have gun crime that is going down....

Canada.....

Police can't explain increase in shootings in Toronto | CBC News

The two shootings come as Toronto is experiencing a year of increased gun violence, up 35 per cent from last year. The number of victims has also increased, up by 80 per cent over last August, according to police statistics.

Deputy Chief Peter Sloly can't say why there have been so many shootings this year, adding that he's noticed an uptick in gun violence across the country.

"It's a concerning trend we're seeing this year," Sloly told CBC News. "We've put extra resources on the street, we've got extra intelligence coming in, we have extra support from our communities."

But Mayor John Tory thinks he knows why the city is witnessing so much gun play.

"There's some level of gang activity involved," he said. "There is the illegal gun trade that continues to be a real problem especially when it comes to the Canada-U.S. border."


-----------
Firearms: Making sense of Toronto’s cycle of violence

The number of people killed or injured by guns in Toronto so far this year is already higher than 2014, reversing a recent downward trend. But while gun violence appears to be going up in Ontario’s capital, criminologists say this apparent increase in gun violence doesn’t necessarily mean the city is becoming more dangerous.
This week alone, there have been seven shootings over a span of four days, two of them fatal, Toronto Police spokeswoman Caroline de Kloet said Friday.

********

Mr. Pugash said the number of shooting events this year – 162, as of Aug. 20 – is now on par with the number on the same date in 2012, the year police previously noted a spike in gun violence.


Police don’t know the reasons behind this year’s increase, Mr. Pugash said, and it’s an issue that could be impacted by an “infinite number of factors.”


Toronto Sun

TORONTO - Welcome to Toronto’s Summer of the Gun 2015.

It’s a headline neither Toronto Police nor city hall want to see.

There is no question statistics can be made to look a lot of different ways, but some statistics are just plain ugly.

Scary, actually.

For example, 36 more people have been shot so far this year in Toronto than at this point last year.

Toronto Police statistics show a 90% increase in people wounded by gunfire and a 48% increase in shootings (135 compared to 91).

And there have been 106 more shooting victims (those hit by gunfire, as well as those victimized by it).

In fact, the 227 shooting victims so far this year is 31 more than the total for all of 2014.

It’s true not all shooting victims have been hit by gunfire, but as Deputy Chief Peter Sloly points out, every gun shot, whether into the air or a tree, is one that could ricochet and strike an innocent victim like we saw in 2012 when a two-year-old was hit.

If you add the death and injury statistics, Toronto has seen 88 dead or wounded by gunfire in 2015 compared to 53 at this time last year. That’s a 66% increase.

It’s a big spike.

Shocking, horrifying numbers that seem to have just snuck up on us.

Many seem worried about the controversial carding issue, but these scary stats aren’t getting the same media attention. It doesn’t feel like a particularly violent summer, but the stats indicate otherwise.





And more, with stories...



'Brazen criminals' behind spike in Toronto gun crime, says deputy chief | CBC News



Another Canadian city with gun crime....



UPDATED: Why does Moncton have such high gun-crime rates?

United States....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...



--------
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

Vegas. October 1, 2017, 58 dead, 500+ injured because it's more important to sell guns than to protect peoples lives.

Nice, France. July 14, 2016, 86 dead 458 injured because it's more important to allow people to drive trucks than to protect people's lives.

So we should let people have AR-15's because we let them drive trucks?

 

[alang1216]

But my owning a gun does not infringe on your right to life or any of your other rights.
The fact that I own guns in no way affects you and there is no proof that you can give to the contrary

Untrue:

• About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS).
• Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year
• According to the CDC, in 2011†, of 32,351 deaths due to firearms, 591 deaths were due to "accidental discharge"
• Last year, CityLab took a brief look at the disturbingly high number of accidental firearm discharges that take place in public bathroomsacross the United States. There were reports of accidental gunfire in bathrooms at a Walmart, a hotel, a grocery store, an Internet cafe, and a Carl's Jr. (The roundup somehow missed this one at an Irish pub in Florida.) In most cases, the self-inflicted victims were pulling up or lowering their pants when their concealed weapon fell out, hit the floor, and fired.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But my owning a gun does not infringe on your right to life or any of your other rights.
The fact that I own guns in no way affects you and there is no proof that you can give to the contrary

Untrue:

• About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS).
• Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year
• According to the CDC, in 2011†, of 32,351 deaths due to firearms, 591 deaths were due to "accidental discharge"
• Last year, CityLab took a brief look at the disturbingly high number of accidental firearm discharges that take place in public bathroomsacross the United States. There were reports of accidental gunfire in bathrooms at a Walmart, a hotel, a grocery store, an Internet cafe, and a Carl's Jr. (The roundup somehow missed this one at an Irish pub in Florida.) In most cases, the self-inflicted victims were pulling up or lowering their pants when their concealed weapon fell out, hit the floor, and fired.

None of my firearms have ever been stolen nor will they.
None of my guns have ever killed a kid
I have never had an accidental discharge

 

[alang1216]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

I have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

I have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And?

 

[alang1216]

None of my firearms have ever been stolen nor will they.
None of my guns have ever killed a kid
I have never had an accidental discharge

I'm not surprised but not every gun owner can say the same.

 

[Skull Pilot]

None of my firearms have ever been stolen nor will they.
None of my guns have ever killed a kid
I have never had an accidental discharge

I'm not surprised but not every gun owner can say the same.

Not my problem.

I am not responsible for the acts of others

 

[alang1216]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

I have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And?

Some people like to steal, murder, or rape and locking them up is an infringement on their liberty.

 

[alang1216]

None of my firearms have ever been stolen nor will they.
None of my guns have ever killed a kid
I have never had an accidental discharge

I'm not surprised but not every gun owner can say the same.

Not my problem.

I am not responsible for the acts of others

You personally, no, the state, yes.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

I have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

And?

Some people like to steal, murder, or rape and locking them up is an infringement on their liberty.

So?

You have the right to anything except violate the rights of others.

You'e being deliberately stupid ( I hope) saying that if you like to rape then it's your right to rape because it's your own personal pursuit of happiness

 

[Skull Pilot]

None of my firearms have ever been stolen nor will they.
None of my guns have ever killed a kid
I have never had an accidental discharge

I'm not surprised but not every gun owner can say the same.

Not my problem.

I am not responsible for the acts of others

You personally, no, the state, yes.

The state is not responsible for the acts of its citizens

 

[alang1216]

and as I said anyone who can pass a background check to buy any firearm can get a permit to own an automatic weapon

Should they be required to pass a background check?

 

[alang1216]

You have the right to anything except violate the rights of others.

Do have the right to protect my family and feel secure in my home?

 

[Skull Pilot]

and as I said anyone who can pass a background check to buy any firearm can get a permit to own an automatic weapon

Should they be required to pass a background check?

I never had a problem with a background check as I don't think convicted felons or the adjudicated mentally ill should own firearms.

I don't sell my firearms but if I did I would do it through an FFL who could run a check if I didn't personally know who I was selling to.

 

[Skull Pilot]

You have the right to anything except violate the rights of others.

Do have the right to protect my family and feel secure in my home?

Of course but telling me I can't own firearms does nothing to protect you in your own home.
And let's leave feelings out of it,

 

[Auld Phart]

But my owning a gun does not infringe on your right to life or any of your other rights.
The fact that I own guns in no way affects you and there is no proof that you can give to the contrary

Untrue:

• About 1.4 million firearms were stolen during household burglaries and other property crimes over the six-year period from 2005 through 2010, according to a report released by the Justice Department's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS).
• Guns kill nearly 1,300 US children each year
• According to the CDC, in 2011†, of 32,351 deaths due to firearms, 591 deaths were due to "accidental discharge"
• Last year, CityLab took a brief look at the disturbingly high number of accidental firearm discharges that take place in public bathroomsacross the United States. There were reports of accidental gunfire in bathrooms at a Walmart, a hotel, a grocery store, an Internet cafe, and a Carl's Jr. (The roundup somehow missed this one at an Irish pub in Florida.) In most cases, the self-inflicted victims were pulling up or lowering their pants when their concealed weapon fell out, hit the floor, and fired.

Well, ya convinced me...


I'll never use a public bathroom again.

 

[Auld Phart]

You can pass laws yes but you cannot infringe on the rights of people to keep and bear.

Every law is meant to infringe on a right.

No they are not

You have no right to steal, murder or rape so laws on these matters infringe on no one's rights

I have inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Is your right more important than mine, or any other gun owner?

 

[alang1216]

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

do any of your current neighbors own firearms?

Do you feel safe in your current neighborhood knowing your neighbors own firearms?

I don't if any of them own guns or not so my ignorance is my bliss. I did meet one neighbor while walking the dog, and he was carrying a machete. He is a West Point grad and one of the finest people I know but no, I didn't feel any safer.

I ask this question of liberals but never get an answer.

If you are walking down the street, and you see me openly carrying my .45 S&W, M&P shield, and then you hear Allah ooh Akbar and a rag wearing, machete wielding terrorist coming at you, with intent to cut your head off, do you want me to walk away with my weapon, or pull it and use it in your defense?

Quite the hypothetical there but sure, please defend me.

See here's where the rubber meets the road when it comes to the rights of others.

I for one will not pull my weapon to defend you from a terrorist who wants to cut off your head.

Why? Because you made the choice not to exercise your right to keep and bear arms. You made the choice to leave your protection in the hands of the government and its law enforcement agencies.

I have so much respect for you and your rights that I would never presume to question you on that choice and would never force my choices upon you.

So if I see you getting the tar kicked out of you by some thugs or about to be beheaded by some terrorist I will call the police and an ambulance for you and hope you don't get killed before they show up.

And you should thank me for respecting your right to make your own decisions.

You're welcome by the way.

All I ask is that you reciprocate

Thanks, no problem. I make the judgement that it is more dangerous for my family to be around a deadly weapon. So far it has been the right call.