Both Sides of the Gun Debate Need to Listen to This

[2aguy]

Currently your right to an automatic weapon is infringed. Do you have a problem with that?

It really isn't

all you have to do is get a federal permit and pay an additional tax and anyone who can pass a background check to buy a rifle can get one

You need to think this through a little better. If you don't feel having to get a federal permit, pay an additional tax, and pass a background check are not restrictions you should have no issue with any other gun control measure.

The government's right to tax is not considered an infringement. However, I do think it should be abolished.

The ability to tax a Right is an infringement from the 14th Amendment created to address democrats taxing the Right to vote for blacks and the poor....and other taxes...Murdock v. Pennsylvania...

Murdoch v. Pennsylvania....you cannot tax the exercise of a Right.....which is why taxes on guns and ammo need to be abolished..

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)



4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.

5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.

6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.

7. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution, and exists independently of state authority, the inquiry as to whether the State has given something for which it can ask a return is irrelevant. P. 319 U. S. 115.

8. A community may not suppress, or the State tax, the dissemination of views because they are unpopular, annoying, or distasteful. P. 319 U. S. 116.

------

Page 319 U. S. 108



The First Amendment, which the Fourteenth makes applicable to the states, declares that

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ."

It could hardly be denied that a tax laid specifically on the exercise of those freedoms would be unconstitutional. Yet the license tax imposed by this ordinance is, in substance, just that.

 

[2aguy]

how does my right to own a gun infringe on your right to life? Please explain...

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

And how would gun laws stop those criminals who are already felons from having those weapons?

 

[2aguy]

There are 2 types of people in the world right now.
Future victims of a crime.
Law Abiding citizens who can protect themselves.

Alang will be a future victim, and I wont shed a tear...

There are way more than 2 types.

Dad Accidentally Shoots 14-Year-Old Son Dead In Front of Family At Gun Range

And?

Americans use their guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack, according to the Department of Justice research commissioned by bill clinton.....and supported by the research done by the CDC under obama in 2013...

 

[alang1216]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

 

[2aguy]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

That may be you...but it isn't the democrat party. As we saw at the CNN Town hall, the D.C. anti gun march, and the thoughts from the former left wing Supreme Court justice......and now towns and cities across the country enacting exactly that kind of gun control.....

They want to ban all guns and repeal the 2nd Amendment...you can pretend they don't, or if you know it is true, lie that they don't...but that is what they want......

They can't pretend or lie to us anymore......

 

[Auld Phart]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns.

unless you have a magic wand, it's not going to happen in this country.




Just like it hasn't happened in any other country.

 

[2aguy]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

We already have all the laws we need to do that. Nothing else that is proposed does this.......

 

[alang1216]

how does my right to own a gun infringe on your right to life? Please explain...

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

And how would gun laws stop those criminals who are already felons from having those weapons?

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

 

[alang1216]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns.

unless you have a magic wand, it's not going to happen in this country.

Just like it hasn't happened in any other country.

It isn't a 100% attainable goal but I trust we can improve on our current track record.

 

[alang1216]

We already have all the laws we need to do that. Nothing else that is proposed does this.......

How do you know?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

How do you know who is and who isn't a responsible gun owner, those that have done a background check?

 

[alang1216]

And?

Americans use their guns 1,500,000 times a year to stop violent criminal attack, according to the Department of Justice research commissioned by bill clinton.....and supported by the research done by the CDC under obama in 2013...

So?

Maybe if we were able to keep more guns out of the wrong hands there wouldn't be so many attacks.

 

[alang1216]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

How do you know who is and who isn't a responsible gun owner, those that have done a background check?

Those who have used guns to commit a crime would fail that test as would the insane, they young, the irresponsible, etc. Will it ever be 100%? Never but we can improve.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

how does my right to own a gun infringe on your right to life? Please explain...

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

And how would gun laws stop those criminals who are already felons from having those weapons?

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

However a key finding is that "the illegal market is the most likely source" for these people to obtain a gun. "In fact, more than half the arrestees say it is easy to obtain guns illegally," the report states. Responding to a question of how they obtained their most recent handgun, the arrestees answered as follows: 56% said they paid cash; 15% said it was a gift; 10% said they borrowed it; 8% said they traded for it; while 5% only said that they stole it.

Do you think a criminal who wants to kill someone is going to register a weapon?

 

[alang1216]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

That may be you...but it isn't the democrat party. As we saw at the CNN Town hall, the D.C. anti gun march, and the thoughts from the former left wing Supreme Court justice......and now towns and cities across the country enacting exactly that kind of gun control.....

They want to ban all guns and repeal the 2nd Amendment...you can pretend they don't, or if you know it is true, lie that they don't...but that is what they want......

They can't pretend or lie to us anymore......

There are millions of people who vote Democrat but they are not the party and I'm sure many of them are gun-owners. I know plenty. Show me where the Democrat Party calls for banning all guns or repealing the 2nd?

 

[alang1216]

If conservatives are so smart why do they have to lie?

Here is what she says: I definitely did not say what was quoted. As an advocate for civil liberties I am not out to arrest innocent folks! Several years ago I sponsored a bill in the Vermont legislature to ban certain assault rifles. Previous to that almost 10 years ago I sponsored a bill advocating a seven day waiting period before someone could purchase a hand gun.

If you don't care what you write then neither do I.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

But you want all the rest of US responsible gun owners to give up ours

This is your straw man not my position. I want ONLY responsible gun owners to have guns. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

That may be you...but it isn't the democrat party. As we saw at the CNN Town hall, the D.C. anti gun march, and the thoughts from the former left wing Supreme Court justice......and now towns and cities across the country enacting exactly that kind of gun control.....

They want to ban all guns and repeal the 2nd Amendment...you can pretend they don't, or if you know it is true, lie that they don't...but that is what they want......

They can't pretend or lie to us anymore......

There are millions of people who vote Democrat but they are not the party and I'm sure many of them are gun-owners. I know plenty. Show me where the Democrat Party calls for banning all guns or repealing the 2nd?

Louisiana Democratic Party Chair Suggests Repealing the Second Amendment
Democrat Calls for Liberal Re-Defining of 2nd Amendment
Repeal the Second Amendment? Almost Half of Democrats Say Yes | National Review

I have tried to have a debate with you, showing how wrong you are. But now with your latest answer where you don't know Democrats calling for repealing the 2nd amendment, I must use the typical liberal thinking picture for you.

 

[Pop23]

Kind of a squishy definition. Swords are arms. Does the 2nd give us the right to bear every possible kind of arm or only a limited subset?

It does not specify

So we can regulate and or ban certain guns under the Constitution then. Since it doesn't specify.

It doesn't say you can......

either

It doesn't say I can yell fire in a crowded theater either. Do I have that right?

Yelling fire in a crowded theater is only illegal when no fire exists.

It is illegal (pointing out the obvious) to create a panic, no matter where you are, when no threat exists, and you know that no threat exist. And it has little application to the 1st amendment.

But thanks for playing.

 

[Pop23]

how does my right to own a gun infringe on your right to life? Please explain...

If I lived next door to a crack house and they had an arsenal of automatic weapons I don't think I'd feel very safe.

And how would gun laws stop those criminals who are already felons from having those weapons?

Registration might make it harder for felons to get weapons since they can be traced.

OMG. THAT MAY BE THE STUPID POST OF THE YEAR!

Like a criminal CARES!

 

[hunarcy]

Currently your right to an automatic weapon is infringed. Do you have a problem with that?

It really isn't

all you have to do is get a federal permit and pay an additional tax and anyone who can pass a background check to buy a rifle can get one

You need to think this through a little better. If you don't feel having to get a federal permit, pay an additional tax, and pass a background check are not restrictions you should have no issue with any other gun control measure.

The government's right to tax is not considered an infringement. However, I do think it should be abolished.

The ability to tax a Right is an infringement from the 14th Amendment created to address democrats taxing the Right to vote for blacks and the poor....and other taxes...Murdock v. Pennsylvania...

Murdoch v. Pennsylvania....you cannot tax the exercise of a Right.....which is why taxes on guns and ammo need to be abolished..

Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 U.S. 105 (1943)



4. A State may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution. P. 319 U. S. 113.

5. The flat license tax here involved restrains in advance the Constitutional liberties of press and religion, and inevitably tends to suppress their exercise. P. 319 U. S. 114.

6. That the ordinance is "nondiscriminatory," in that it applies also to peddlers of wares and merchandise, is immaterial. The liberties guaranteed by the First Amendment are in a preferred position. P. 319 U. S. 115.

7. Since the privilege in question is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution, and exists independently of state authority, the inquiry as to whether the State has given something for which it can ask a return is irrelevant. P. 319 U. S. 115.

8. A community may not suppress, or the State tax, the dissemination of views because they are unpopular, annoying, or distasteful. P. 319 U. S. 116.

------

Page 319 U. S. 108



The First Amendment, which the Fourteenth makes applicable to the states, declares that

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press . . ."

It could hardly be denied that a tax laid specifically on the exercise of those freedoms would be unconstitutional. Yet the license tax imposed by this ordinance is, in substance, just that.

Ah, so there should be no tax on fully automatic weapons. OK.