Boycott Israel

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you are so confused. You do not even know what the term "Palestine" actually means; let alone understand the borders.

The elements of the Arab League, acting in support of the Arab Palestinians, used both Threats or Actual Force on the Israelis to destroy the political sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Jewish State.

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

So who was violating whose territory?

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE)

​

View attachment 220693
​

SOURCE: Under Secretary General for Legal Affairs Legal Affairs
​

(COMMENT)

Of course, you would have a dispute over the borders. Both the major Arab Palestinian factions (Ramallah Government and Gaza Government) have their own particular view on this matter.

In the eyes of many Arab Palestinians, particularly those involved hostilities and in the support of violence, your view "must be" the proper view. Otherwise, the entire justification for the actions of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, begins to unravel.

The term "Palestine" does not mean what you think it means. While there is no legal impediment in using the term "Palestine" as to describe the geographic area once under the Mandate for Palestine, the boundaries of that geographic area did not constitute a self-governing institution (a state). Take a few minutes to read and understand the Memo.

As for the borders of Israel, they are actual and physical. The sovereignty of Israel is not theoretical but enforced and treated as a fact in reality. YOU touch the border. It has the quality of real substance, a tangible object. It is not some pipe dream that the Arab Palestinians and fantasy.

Now that does not mean that the Arab Palestinians can live as refugees in self-imposed enclaves run by the UNRWA. But the Arab Palestinians do this at the own discretion.

Most Respectfully,
R

You ducked my question. Here is a map of Palestine that includes its defined international boundaries.

These are the same international boundaries that were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice agreements. (After the Mandate left Palestine.) There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

The Armistice agreements mentioned Palestine many times and twice called the land inside those boundaries Palestine. There was no mention of a place called Israel. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation by armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Israel does not recognize those lines as its borders.

BTW, the armistice was called by a UN Security Council resolution. Nobody lost that war.

 

[Hollie]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

 

[Hollie]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

You mindlessly cut and paste without understanding what you cut and paste.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

You mindlessly cut and paste without understanding what you cut and paste.

So, are you going to refute my post or just blabber on about nothing?

 

[Hollie]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

You mindlessly cut and paste without understanding what you cut and paste.

So, are you going to refute my post or just blabber on about nothing?

What is there to refute?

That cut and paste map has been dumped repeatedly here: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate, as elsewhere.

Monty cut and pasted it multiple times across multiple threads and you picked it up and are now cutting and pasting it.

What are you suggesting the map represents?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

You mindlessly cut and paste without understanding what you cut and paste.

So, are you going to refute my post or just blabber on about nothing?

What is there to refute?

That cut and paste map has been dumped repeatedly here: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate, as elsewhere.

Monty cut and pasted it multiple times across multiple threads and you picked it up and are now cutting and pasting it.

What are you suggesting the map represents?

 

[Hollie]

You forgot to append “....because I say so” to your legal ruling.

I just post what the documents say. You can argue with the documents if you like.

You mindlessly cut and paste without understanding what you cut and paste.

So, are you going to refute my post or just blabber on about nothing?

What is there to refute?

That cut and paste map has been dumped repeatedly here: The Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate, as elsewhere.

Monty cut and pasted it multiple times across multiple threads and you picked it up and are now cutting and pasting it.

What are you suggesting the map represents?

Your usual retreat. There's no reason for you to spam this with your usual cutting and pasting.

There is a thread dedicated for that.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, you are so confused. You do not even know what the term "Palestine" actually means; let alone understand the borders.

The elements of the Arab League, acting in support of the Arab Palestinians, used both Threats or Actual Force on the Israelis to destroy the political sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Jewish State.

Palestine has international borders. Israel has no borders.

So who was violating whose territory?

(IMPORTANT REFERENCE)

​

View attachment 220693
​

SOURCE: Under Secretary General for Legal Affairs Legal Affairs
​

(COMMENT)

Of course, you would have a dispute over the borders. Both the major Arab Palestinian factions (Ramallah Government and Gaza Government) have their own particular view on this matter.

In the eyes of many Arab Palestinians, particularly those involved hostilities and in the support of violence, your view "must be" the proper view. Otherwise, the entire justification for the actions of the Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters, begins to unravel.

The term "Palestine" does not mean what you think it means. While there is no legal impediment in using the term "Palestine" as to describe the geographic area once under the Mandate for Palestine, the boundaries of that geographic area did not constitute a self-governing institution (a state). Take a few minutes to read and understand the Memo.

As for the borders of Israel, they are actual and physical. The sovereignty of Israel is not theoretical but enforced and treated as a fact in reality. YOU touch the border. It has the quality of real substance, a tangible object. It is not some pipe dream that the Arab Palestinians and fantasy.

Now that does not mean that the Arab Palestinians can live as refugees in self-imposed enclaves run by the UNRWA. But the Arab Palestinians do this at the own discretion.

Most Respectfully,
R

You ducked my question. Here is a map of Palestine that includes its defined international boundaries.

These are the same international boundaries that were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice agreements. (After the Mandate left Palestine.) There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

The Armistice agreements mentioned Palestine many times and twice called the land inside those boundaries Palestine. There was no mention of a place called Israel. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation by armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Israel does not recognize those lines as its borders.

BTW, the armistice was called by a UN Security Council resolution. Nobody lost that war.

Yup, the Muzzies really fucked that up, eh?
At the rate they're going, when they finally get a State of Palestine, it'll be the size of Lichtenstein.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Oh, there you go again...

You ducked my question. Here is a map of Palestine that includes its defined international boundaries.

These are the same international boundaries that were referenced in the 1949 UN Armistice agreements. (After the Mandate left Palestine.) There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

The Armistice agreements mentioned Palestine many times and twice called the land inside those boundaries Palestine. There was no mention of a place called Israel. Palestine was divided into three areas of occupation by armistice lines that were specifically not to be political or territorial boundaries. Israel does not recognize those lines as its borders.

BTW, the armistice was called by a UN Security Council resolution. Nobody lost that war.

[REFERENCE for UN MAP 103.1(b)]

​

(COMMENT)

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947) You know, it is the Annex to that Resolution that you claimed never happened. I won't be so naive as to claim foul. However, I would like to bring to your attention that the International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and either the Jewish State or the Arab State (the names having not been finalized when the Partition Plan was adopted).

Contrary to your statement, it is an outline of International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and some self-governing institution called Palestine. The actual authority for the Government of Palestine was the UK.

"Between July 1920 and May 1948, Palestine was a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine was considered a territory administered under "Mandate of Palestine" by the United Kingdom, who was entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

As you mentioned the "Armistice Agreements," I find it necessary to bring to your attention that the entirety of the territory → on the day the agreements were signed → formerly under the Mandate of Palestine, was either under the control of the State of Israel - or - one of the members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt). There again, no self-governing institution called "Palestine" was mention. In fact, up until the Resolution on Palestine was adopted at the Seventh Arab League Summit, Rabat, Morocco 28 October 1974, and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) became the sole legitimate "Representative of the Palestinian People" (in any Palestinian territory that is liberated) the Arab Palestinians had NO territory over which they were the Self-Governing Institution.

As a point of order, a point of fact:

• On March 26, 1979: The Armistice of 24 February 1949 between Israel and Jordan, became historical. only remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved.

• On October 26, 1994: The Armistice of 3 April 1949 between Israel and Jordan, became historical. only remaining in force until a peaceful settlement between the Parties is achieved.
​

The significance here is that the Demarcation Lines associated with the Armistice Agreements were dissolved without prejudice to the issue of the status of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank or Jerusalem (any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967). The Arab League parties knew very well that there would be future territorial settlements over boundary lines (the Armistice Lines were not to be considered as permanent political or territorial boundary) or to claims of either Party. The Armistice Lines were, essentially military ceasefire lines and agreed upon only by the Military Representative. Whereas, the Treaties were executed under the Vienna Convention on Treaty Law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947)

It is a 1946 map of Palestine that was later marked with the partition plan. The map is older than the partition plan.

 

[Hollie]

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947)

It is a 1946 map of Palestine that was later marked with the partition plan. The map is older than the partition plan.

It was convenient for you to backtrack after the misrepresentation didn’t work?

 

[Sixties Fan]

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947)

It is a 1946 map of Palestine that was later marked with the partition plan. The map is older than the partition plan.

You forget the 1937 Partition plan.
And that in 1920 there was not going to be a Partition.
And that in 1925, the Mandate was Partitioned into TransJordan (78%) and the "Rest" of the Mandate.

The Arabs got much more than they ever deserved to get out of the Mandate for the Jewish Homeland, and all because the British were just as much a bunch of Jew haters as too many Arabs are.


Now, why is it that the Palestinian Arabs never boycotted the Hashemite for being literally given 78% of Palestine.

Or Jordan and Egypt in 1948 when they got Gaza and Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter?

No terrorism against Egypt or Jordan to hand back the land to the rightful people, as they thought themselves to be, the Muslim Arabs.

 

[P F Tinmore]

However, I would like to bring to your attention that the International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and either the Jewish State or the Arab State (the names having not been finalized when the Partition Plan was adopted).

How can it be finalized?

Link?

All of the international borders mentioned in the Armistice Agreements were between Palestine and the neighboring states. No borders for an Israel were mentioned.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get it right!

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947)

It is a 1946 map of Palestine that was later marked with the partition plan. The map is older than the partition plan.

(COMMENT)

In 1946, the eternal boundaries would have been demarcations between the members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt), and the territory under the "Mandate for Palestine" (the Government of Palestine); as explained in Posting #5350.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, get it right!

As you can see, this is not a "Map of Palestine;" but rather this is a "Map of the Plan of Partition" (Base Survey Map of 1946 as Modified to depict the recommendations of A/RES/181 II 1947)

It is a 1946 map of Palestine that was later marked with the partition plan. The map is older than the partition plan.

(COMMENT)

In 1946, the eternal boundaries would have been demarcations between the members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt), and the territory under the "Mandate for Palestine" (the Government of Palestine); as explained in Posting #5350.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Mandate was not Palestine. It was a temporarily assigned administration. When the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

How can it be finalized?

However, I would like to bring to your attention that the International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and either the Jewish State or the Arab State (the names having not been finalized when the Partition Plan was adopted).

How can it be finalized?

Link?

All of the international borders mentioned in the Armistice Agreements were between Palestine and the neighboring states. No borders for an Israel were mentioned.

(COMMENT)

The name "Israel" was finalized on mid-night 14/15 May 1948. The name State of Palestine was finalized in December 2012.

As for links, I just gave you the UN Memo on the Name for the State of Palestine. As for the Israeli cable declaring Independence, well, I just don't feel like looking that up for the ump-teenth thousandth time.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

How can it be finalized?

However, I would like to bring to your attention that the International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and either the Jewish State or the Arab State (the names having not been finalized when the Partition Plan was adopted).

How can it be finalized?

Link?

All of the international borders mentioned in the Armistice Agreements were between Palestine and the neighboring states. No borders for an Israel were mentioned.

(COMMENT)

The name "Israel" was finalized on mid-night 14/15 May 1948. The name State of Palestine was finalized in December 2012.

As for links, I just gave you the UN Memo on the Name for the State of Palestine. As for the Israeli cable declaring Independence, well, I just don't feel like looking that up for the ump-teenth thousandth time.

Most Respectfully,
R

The name "Israel" was finalized on mid-night 14/15 May 1948.

Not mentioned in the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

Why was that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

How can it be finalized?

However, I would like to bring to your attention that the International Borders on the map are between members nations of the Arab League (going clockwise from True North, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt) and either the Jewish State or the Arab State (the names having not been finalized when the Partition Plan was adopted).

How can it be finalized?

Link?

All of the international borders mentioned in the Armistice Agreements were between Palestine and the neighboring states. No borders for an Israel were mentioned.

(COMMENT)

The name "Israel" was finalized on mid-night 14/15 May 1948. The name State of Palestine was finalized in December 2012.

As for links, I just gave you the UN Memo on the Name for the State of Palestine. As for the Israeli cable declaring Independence, well, I just don't feel like looking that up for the ump-teenth thousandth time.

Most Respectfully,
R

As for the Israeli cable declaring Independence, well, I just don't feel like looking that up for the ump-teenth thousandth time.

Do you mean the one that never defined its territory?

Why was that?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Boycott Israel
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

And you get it wrong once again. AND I don't feel like giving you even half-credit...

The Mandate was not Palestine. It was a temporarily assigned administration. When the Mandate left, Palestine was still there.

(COMMENT)

Right. I did not say that the Mandate was Palestine. But the Territory under which the Mandate applied was the territory boundary for the Government of Palestine (the UK) which the Arab Palestinians declined to participate in.

• "After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed. (Notice)​

When the Mandate terminated the Successor government was put in place. Guess what, it was not the Arab Palestinians. Any progress the Arab Palestinians might have been able to make if they had chosen peaceful diplomacy over combat of an armed invasion was lost.

Most Respectfully,
R