Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
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Please see my Post #1537 above.Gaza is still occupied. You do not understand that having a military on a border which is closed while children nearby are sniped at, controlling the airspace, forbidding fishermen to go beyond three miles in their own waters, and periodically massacring the civilian population so that the entire Gaza is like a concentration camp, is effective occupation.I offered a solution, namely the Israelis, both military and settlers, should return to Israel. This will render acts of resistance to the occupation obsolete.
It didn't work with Gaza. No part of Gaza is "occupied" by either military or settlers. The boundary between Gaza and Israel is clear. And yet the Gazans are still resisting.
Why is that, do you think?
Let's review. You said that the removal of military and settlers from territory will render acts of resistance obsolete and will therefore result in a peaceful solution to the conflict.
Israel unilaterally removed all military and all settlers from Gaza. And yet the Gazans still resist. It did not result in peace. It did not provide a solution.
Knowing this, why do you assert that these types of unilateral actions by Israel will bring peace? Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting it will bring different results.
(And I fully agree with Rocco that your interpretation of the law is unsound).
The answer to your first question is that the Israelis should end their brutal occupation of the State of Palestine and learn how to get along with their nearest neighbors.Creating settlements is forbidden in international law.What does Israel need to do to live in peace? What do the Palestinians and Gazans have to do?
The limited self-government allowed in the occupied territories is a sham, similar to the Judenräte of occupied Poland in the last century.
Israel and you need to understand these things.
You dodged my question. What should Israel do in order to have peace? What should the Palestinians and Gazans do in order to have peace?
(And no, creating settlements is not forbidden in international law. See my thread titled "Settlements Are Not Illegal".)
Please see my Post #1545 above.Please see my Post #1537 above.Gaza is still occupied. You do not understand that having a military on a border which is closed while children nearby are sniped at, controlling the airspace, forbidding fishermen to go beyond three miles in their own waters, and periodically massacring the civilian population so that the entire Gaza is like a concentration camp, is effective occupation.I offered a solution, namely the Israelis, both military and settlers, should return to Israel. This will render acts of resistance to the occupation obsolete.
It didn't work with Gaza. No part of Gaza is "occupied" by either military or settlers. The boundary between Gaza and Israel is clear. And yet the Gazans are still resisting.
Why is that, do you think?
Let's review. You said that the removal of military and settlers from territory will render acts of resistance obsolete and will therefore result in a peaceful solution to the conflict.
Israel unilaterally removed all military and all settlers from Gaza. And yet the Gazans still resist. It did not result in peace. It did not provide a solution.
Knowing this, why do you assert that these types of unilateral actions by Israel will bring peace? Definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting it will bring different results.
(And I fully agree with Rocco that your interpretation of the law is unsound).
You present an opinion on law from someone at Oxford; a quote from Ban Ki Moon; and an opinion by a non-profit organization from ten years ago and you consider that LAW?!
Wowsa.
Address the substance of my post -- you claim that removal of military and civilian persons from a territory will remove the necessity of resistance and will therefore bring peace. I have demonstrated that this is not so using the example of Gaza.
The answer to your first question is that the Israelis should end their brutal occupation of the State of Palestine and learn how to get along with their nearest neighbors.
The answer to your second question is that the Palestinians should persuade the Israelis to go home.
And Yes, the Israeli settlements are in breach of Article 49 of the Geneva Convention which forbids an occupier from transferring its own civilians into the territory it occupies. "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
ICRC service
All the countries of the world and top jurists are in agreement that the Jewish Settlements in the Occupied Territories are illegal. Israel is a scofflaw rogue state, I'm afraid.The answer to your first question is that the Israelis should end their brutal occupation of the State of Palestine and learn how to get along with their nearest neighbors.
The answer to your second question is that the Palestinians should persuade the Israelis to go home.
And Yes, the Israeli settlements are in breach of Article 49 of the Geneva Convention which forbids an occupier from transferring its own civilians into the territory it occupies. "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
ICRC service
Everything in your post depends on there being existing boundaries between Israel and Palestine. There are none. Until we define what territories are "occupied" and what is "home" your request is entirely meaningless.
Second, we must define what it means to be "occupied" as Israel withdrew from Gaza entirely but some people (in error) still consider it "occupied".
So define the territory. Define the conditions. Only then can we know if Israel has met them.
All the countries of the world and top jurists are in agreement that the Jewish Settlements in the Occupied Territories are illegal. Israel is a scofflaw rogue state, I'm afraid.The answer to your first question is that the Israelis should end their brutal occupation of the State of Palestine and learn how to get along with their nearest neighbors.
The answer to your second question is that the Palestinians should persuade the Israelis to go home.
And Yes, the Israeli settlements are in breach of Article 49 of the Geneva Convention which forbids an occupier from transferring its own civilians into the territory it occupies. "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
ICRC service
Everything in your post depends on there being existing boundaries between Israel and Palestine. There are none. Until we define what territories are "occupied" and what is "home" your request is entirely meaningless.
Second, we must define what it means to be "occupied" as Israel withdrew from Gaza entirely but some people (in error) still consider it "occupied".
So define the territory. Define the conditions. Only then can we know if Israel has met them.
Expert jurists and international treaty conventions are hardly populum.All the countries of the world and top jurists are in agreement that the Jewish Settlements in the Occupied Territories are illegal. Israel is a scofflaw rogue state, I'm afraid.The answer to your first question is that the Israelis should end their brutal occupation of the State of Palestine and learn how to get along with their nearest neighbors.
The answer to your second question is that the Palestinians should persuade the Israelis to go home.
And Yes, the Israeli settlements are in breach of Article 49 of the Geneva Convention which forbids an occupier from transferring its own civilians into the territory it occupies. "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
ICRC service
Everything in your post depends on there being existing boundaries between Israel and Palestine. There are none. Until we define what territories are "occupied" and what is "home" your request is entirely meaningless.
Second, we must define what it means to be "occupied" as Israel withdrew from Gaza entirely but some people (in error) still consider it "occupied".
So define the territory. Define the conditions. Only then can we know if Israel has met them.
Then it should be super easy to tell me where the borders are between Israel and Palestine. And back up your claim with quotes to legal instruments outlining those boundaries.
(and btw, argumentum ad populum is a logical fallacy)
And just so you can see that I put my money where my mouth is, here is a "top jurist" and his legal analysis of why the territory is under Israel sovereignty.
(COMMENT)You appear to be unfamiliar with International Law.