BREAKING: 200+ “Militarized” Federal Police Surround Peaceful Rancher in Nevada

[WinterBorn]

Look.

We have 200 armed men already there. Start shooting all the cattle that are trespassing on federal land. Distribute the free beef to all the widows and orphans

And before someone starts raving about private property and the cows belonging to Bundy, look at the facts.

Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees in 1993.

He was told by a federal judge in 1998 to stop using the public land for grazing his cattle.

Last July a federal judge gave him 45 days to remove his cattle from the public land.

If you watch the above interview of Bundy, you can see that it is quite that simple.

Yes it IS just that simple. Bundy's defense is that he has been there a long time. Do you really think that is a legitimate reason to ignore laws?

He is upset that the price he pays to graze his cattle went up. I bet he doesn't complain when the price he is paid for his cattle goes up.

He wants things to stay the same way they were in the 1880s. And that is ridiculous.

He has already gotten 21 years worth of free grazing. The feds have been far more tolerant than any private landlord would have been.

Can you imagine if you owned land and he paid to graze his cattle there? You raise the fee and he stops paying. Are you going to wait 5 years to tell him to get his cattle off your land? Are you ging to wait 21 years before you round them up yourself?

 

[JimH52]

So why hasn't the "peaceful citizen" paid his grazing fees?

Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing | Fox News

“For more than two decades, cattle have been grazed illegally on public lands in northeast Clark County,” the BLM said in a statement. “BLM and (the National Park Service) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially. Impoundment of cattle illegally grazing on public lands is an option of last resort.”

If I were a rancher in the area and had been paying to graze my cattle, I would think this guy is getting special treatment.

 

[MisterBeale]

Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?

His ranch is private, he grazes on federal property.

His family has run this business this way for generations. It's really a political issue, not an environmental one. It's motivated by the competition I'm sure. Factory farming uses Bovine growth hormones, antibiotics, enclosures, small spaces and grain fed beef. I'm sure this is motivated by a desire to shut him and organic farmers like him down.

Grass fed beef, organic beef is a niche market, it's highly competitive.

If you do the research, you will find that the BLM euthanized hundreds of these tortoises instead of nursing them back to health because it was too expensive. Likewise. they are spending two million to round up his cattle, when he only "owes" a million in back taxes.

It is about power and control. It is about crony capitalism, or corporatism.

http://reclaimourrepublic.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/video-rancher-cliven-bundy-family-faces-sniper-rifles-govt-standoff-americans-disappearing-rights-tortoise/

There's no much good clean food out there anymore. Good health starts with the right food. Get rid of that, and people will need this rotten deathcare system.

 

[WinterBorn]

Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?

His cattle are free grazing where they have been since the 1800's
His family has used that land since before the federal government took it.

His family never owned that land. But they have been using it.

And Bundy hasn't paid to fed the cattle in his commercial operation for 21 years.

 

[WinterBorn]

We have kangaroo courts in this country. The judge's decisions are often just as illegal as the agencies that bring the charges.

This is a travesty on the level of the one that resulted in the death of Donald Scott when the government wanted his land to be part of a Malibu view corridor.

A travesty? The grazing fees paid by the ranchers to use public lands are ridiculously low. And Bundy stopped paying those fees 21 years ago!! The feds waited 5 years (while he grazed his cattle for free) before the ordered him to stop. Then they waited another 5 years before they took action to remove his cattle.

He has been grazing 900 head of cattle, in a commercial operation, for free for 21 years. And he is the victim?? LMAO!!

He has been grazing his cattle, along with his family for 140 years. When the government wanted the land, they simply raised the fees until he couldn't pay it.
This tactic has been done before.

AZ rancher only paid $600 after feds seize prime land - CBS 5 - KPHO

Donald Scott was murdered by federal authorities when they wanted his land.
Donald Scott case - killing for land

This government has been going out of control for a long time.

When the gov't wanted the land???? The gov't already owned the land.

The gov't did not seize any land in this case. The Bundy family has never owned the land.

 

[jasonnfree]

Anyone who calls those murderers at Waco "peaceful American citizens" is a lying piece of shit. Period.[/QUOTE

The murderers at Waco were the Feds. The people inside the compound were peaceful citizens. They weren't breaking any laws until they were invaded.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Haven't really followed this story, so I'd like to get a few points cleared up. Is the ranch itself on so-called federal property where they're trying to protect the tortoise, or is he simply letting his cattle roam off of the ranch into federal property?

His cattle are free grazing where they have been since the 1800's
His family has used that land since before the federal government took it.

His family never owned that land. But they have been using it.

And Bundy hasn't paid to fed the cattle in his commercial operation for 21 years.

Im sure there is plenty to the story that bolsters both sides. But at what point does that equate to this type of force being used against an unviolent American?

 

[WinterBorn]

The state government had 0 problem with what he is doing. The feds are stepping on state issues

FEDERAL LAND is a state issue??????????????????????????????????

REALLY?

Why don't you look up how long his family has used the land as compared to when the feds took over the land.

Yes, his family has been there a long time. But they never owned the land in question. They used it, but never owned it.

So if my family has been in an area for a long time, should I get to ignore any new laws or new gov't agencies?

Because that is exactly what Bundy is claiming with his "preemptive rights" nonsense.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So here are the facts as I understand them:

- Bundy's family has been using that land for grazing for generations.
- The government at some point, but after Bundy's family had been grazing there, claimed that the land was federal property.
- The government claims it is trying to protect some subspecies of tortoise.
- Bundy stopped paying his grazing fee in 1993.

If these facts are correct, then the only real thing to say is that the government had no right to the land in the first place, and that Bundy's family, and probably other ranchers who were driven from the area, had the property right to that land. As far as the argument regarding the tortoises goes, the government's success rate for protecting endangered or at risk species' is so low as to be essentially nonexistent, so it's not even a factor in this case.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

It's fucking grass, dirt & cow shit lol

Organize the army to defend this patch of grass from those dastardly cows.

Really? This is what our government does? Why don't they do this on the damn border?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

FEDERAL LAND is a state issue??????????????????????????????????

REALLY?

Why don't you look up how long his family has used the land as compared to when the feds took over the land.

Yes, his family has been there a long time. But they never owned the land in question. They used it, but never owned it.

So if my family has been in an area for a long time, should I get to ignore any new laws or new gov't agencies?

Because that is exactly what Bundy is claiming with his "preemptive rights" nonsense.

And how did they not own the land prior to the government taking it? They, and other ranchers presumably, were the ones who mixed their labor with the land, so who has a better claim to ownership than they do?

 

[WinterBorn]

His cattle are free grazing where they have been since the 1800's
His family has used that land since before the federal government took it.

His family never owned that land. But they have been using it.

And Bundy hasn't paid to fed the cattle in his commercial operation for 21 years.

Im sure there is plenty to the story that bolsters both sides. But at what point does that equate to this type of force being used against an unviolent American?

He stopped paying the grazing fee in 1993.
It was 5 years before a federal judges ruled that he had to stop grazing on federal land.
It was 15 more years, and another federal judge saying the same thing, before the feds started working to remove his cattle.
It has been almost a year since the second ruling.

How long do the feds allow someone to ignore the law and federal rulings before they take any sort of action? They are not doing anything to Bundy. They are removing his cattle from public land, like a federal judge ordered him to do 16 years ago.

 

[Dot Com]

rw fauxrage is strong in this thread. He needs to be held accountable for being a freeloader.

 

[MisterBeale]

And before someone starts raving about private property and the cows belonging to Bundy, look at the facts.

Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees in 1993.

He was told by a federal judge in 1998 to stop using the public land for grazing his cattle.

Last July a federal judge gave him 45 days to remove his cattle from the public land.

If you watch the above interview of Bundy, you can see that it is quite that simple.

Do you mean "NOT quite that simple" ?

I've read his position - he's full of crap. He's a welfare cowboy whose family has been feeding off the public trough for 127 years. And he has 14 children to boot. He can't afford to pay for his cattle's feed, but he keeps cranking out kids that the taxpayers are gonna have to support as well.

This is the definition of generational welfare.

Yes, thank you.

I fail to see how this is any different than the mineral rights that the government gives to the oil companies. Please, do elucidate me.

Oh, wait. You need cheap gas. That's the difference.

Well, guess what? I'm primarily a vegetarian. The only time I buy beef is from ranchers like these. You know how much a pound of ground beef is from grass fed beef? About $12/lb. If we let the factory farms use the BLM to force these farmers out of business, you won't have that option anymore. Do you really know where most of your beef really comes from?

You will be left with beef polluted with bovine growth hormones, mad cow disease, super antibiotic resistant pathogens, & just generally nasty rotten stinking meat.

You really don't want to know where that shit you buy at Wal-Mart comes from. It certainly doesn't come from ranchers like this guys.

 

[Katzndogz]

A travesty? The grazing fees paid by the ranchers to use public lands are ridiculously low. And Bundy stopped paying those fees 21 years ago!! The feds waited 5 years (while he grazed his cattle for free) before the ordered him to stop. Then they waited another 5 years before they took action to remove his cattle.

He has been grazing 900 head of cattle, in a commercial operation, for free for 21 years. And he is the victim?? LMAO!!

He has been grazing his cattle, along with his family for 140 years. When the government wanted the land, they simply raised the fees until he couldn't pay it.
This tactic has been done before.

AZ rancher only paid $600 after feds seize prime land - CBS 5 - KPHO

Donald Scott was murdered by federal authorities when they wanted his land.
Donald Scott case - killing for land

This government has been going out of control for a long time.

When the gov't wanted the land???? The gov't already owned the land.

The gov't did not seize any land in this case. The Bundy family has never owned the land.

The government owned the land because it TOOK the land in 1993. Your error is in thinking that the federal government OWNS all land not otherwise owned by someone else. All vacant land does not belong to the government.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

His family never owned that land. But they have been using it.

And Bundy hasn't paid to fed the cattle in his commercial operation for 21 years.

Im sure there is plenty to the story that bolsters both sides. But at what point does that equate to this type of force being used against an unviolent American?

He stopped paying the grazing fee in 1993.
It was 5 years before a federal judges ruled that he had to stop grazing on federal land.
It was 15 more years, and another federal judge saying the same thing, before the feds started working to remove his cattle.
It has been almost a year since the second ruling.

How long do the feds allow someone to ignore the law and federal rulings before they take any sort of action? They are not doing anything to Bundy. They are removing his cattle from public land, like a federal judge ordered him to do 16 years ago.

Why is it any other case can be adjudicated through the courts but this one requires 200 armed men?

 

[WinterBorn]

So here are the facts as I understand them:

- Bundy's family has been using that land for grazing for generations.
- The government at some point, but after Bundy's family had been grazing there, claimed that the land was federal property.
- The government claims it is trying to protect some subspecies of tortoise.
- Bundy stopped paying his grazing fee in 1993.

If these facts are correct, then the only real thing to say is that the government had no right to the land in the first place, and that Bundy's family, and probably other ranchers who were driven from the area, had the property right to that land. As far as the argument regarding the tortoises goes, the government's success rate for protecting endangered or at risk species' is so low as to be essentially nonexistent, so it's not even a factor in this case.

How do you see the ownership of the land being with Bundy?? Did they file the deeds, pay the taxes or do all the other things that signify ownership?

Even Bundy agrees that it is public land.

But if you want to say that the Bundy family has owned it for 140 years, then I guess that they owe some pretty serious back taxes, wouldn't you say?

 

[nodoginnafight]

The state government had 0 problem with what he is doing. The feds are stepping on state issues

FEDERAL LAND is a state issue??????????????????????????????????

REALLY?

Why don't you look up how long his family has used the land as compared to when the feds took over the land.

I know those numbers - your contention that the management of FEDERAL LANDS is really a state issue is absurd.

 

[WinterBorn]

Im sure there is plenty to the story that bolsters both sides. But at what point does that equate to this type of force being used against an unviolent American?

He stopped paying the grazing fee in 1993.
It was 5 years before a federal judges ruled that he had to stop grazing on federal land.
It was 15 more years, and another federal judge saying the same thing, before the feds started working to remove his cattle.
It has been almost a year since the second ruling.

How long do the feds allow someone to ignore the law and federal rulings before they take any sort of action? They are not doing anything to Bundy. They are removing his cattle from public land, like a federal judge ordered him to do 16 years ago.

Why is it any other case can be adjudicated through the courts but this one requires 200 armed men?

It HAS been adjudicated through the courts. Bundy ignore the rulings for better than 15 years, and continued to graze his hundreds of head of cattle for free.

This entire operation is about removing the cattle. They are not in a stand-off with Bundy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hopefully I will be eating some of his cows at a discount soon.

Beef prices are expected to rise between 300 and 1000% in the next 6 months. You could easily be paying $20 a pound for hamburger by summer. Killing off cattle is the BLM's way of helping drive prices even further up.

And some of the loony left here deny that there is an active war being waged by the democrats to destroy the middle class.....