Breaking: Charleston SC, white male shoots 8 people at Souths oldest black church

[TyroneSlothrop]

Ronald "Racist in Chief" Reagan went to Philadelphia Mississippi to start his campaign in 1980...16 years earlier 3 civil Rights workers were vile murdered by recalcitrant racist bigots and bastards in that city ...Ronnie Reagan was celebrating that connection to racial murder 16 years previous as part of the Southern Strategy a Big dog whistle ... He made Racism mainstream again ...

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

..........the Southern military tradition, whatever it has evolved into in more recent history, has its roots in the institution of and particularly the preservation of slavery. Whether it is slave patrols, militias focused on putting down slave revolts or musters intended to overawe subject populations - while no institution has a single origin, this basic fact about the history of the American South is unquestionably true. It is particularly so about South Carolina.

The Dark History of Race and Terror

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Those victims families show all you liberals what true Christianity is.
I'm not a believer but God bless all of them

 

[Statistikhengst]

Yes, this thread is easily going to make it to 2,000 posts, what with kkkorrell's undying love of the confederate flag and all.

 

[Statistikhengst]

"Staytes Raaaaaaaaaaaaahhts!"

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[dblack]

His parents were almost certainly racists too. They raised him to do this and gave him the fucking gun. His friends heard him say he was going to it. They all need to be held accountable for their part in this.

witch hunt?

No. I'm not suggesting anyone should be considered guilty until proven innocent. But we need to start holding parents accountable when they release these dangerous animals into society.

If someone trained a vicious attack dog, let it loose in the neighborhood, and it killed innocent people, you can bet they'd be up on charges. If the parents did have any role, if they knew of his violent threats, if they goaded him on with their own hateful racism, if they gave him the gun knowing of his violent fantasies, they should be facing charges alongside him.

 

[JQPublic1]

'
There are some serious cultural problems in the white community.

I expect leaders in their community to come forward and address this. The white community needs to think long and hard about this.

Why? It wasn't the white community that committed this crime.

Well, technically, the white community produced the guy who did commit the crime. That is the same as saying blacks make up 13% of the population but commit 50% of all murders. That makes ALL blacks guilty by racial association. I won't stoop to that kind of state sanctioned racism ..I just threw it out there to keep things in context!

in no way does discussing the fact that blacks,13% of the population commit 50% of all murders, make all blacks guilty by racial association.

But bringing up such a statistic on this thread is tasteless at best and vicious at worst. In what way does that have anything even remotely to do with 9 of our fellow black citizens who were brutally and senselessly murdered at the hands of a racist white person?

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Well, taken in the context in which I used it, that stat it is not vicious or tasteless. Read the paragraph that I wrote and tell me if you don't agree that it adds some value to the op. It is certainly on topic

In saying that, I bear no responsibility for any response to my posts that might be insensitive to some.

 

[guno]

The K hristian K racker K oalition

 

[Statistikhengst]

I expect leaders in their community to come forward and address this. The white community needs to think long and hard about this.

Why? It wasn't the white community that committed this crime.

Well, technically, the white community produced the guy who did commit the crime. That is the same as saying blacks make up 13% of the population but commit 50% of all murders. That makes ALL blacks guilty by racial association. I won't stoop to that kind of state sanctioned racism ..I just threw it out there to keep things in context!

in no way does discussing the fact that blacks,13% of the population commit 50% of all murders, make all blacks guilty by racial association.

But bringing up such a statistic on this thread is tasteless at best and vicious at worst. In what way does that have anything even remotely to do with 9 of our fellow black citizens who were brutally and senselessly murdered at the hands of a racist white person?

Gesendet von meinem GT-I9515 mit Tapatalk

Well, taken in the context in which I used it, that stat it is not vicious or tasteless. Read the paragraph that I wrote and tell me if you don't agree that it adds some value to the op. It is certainly on topic

In saying that, I bear no responsibility for any response to my posts that might be insensitive to some.

I was not responding to your posting...

 

[emilynghiem]

Einstein said it best. Racism is a white persons disease.

Absolutely. You will not find an example on the planet that comes even close.
Whites have crashed like a tsunami over this planet decimating nearly every native population they have encountered.

Dear Hutch Starskey

Don't leave out the Asians. The kamikaze genocides committed by one Asian entity against another are so horrible, I don't know if they've been fully documented. The Pol Pot / Cambodian genocides, the Japanese and Chinese massacres of entire villages and populations we may not ever know the full extent of.

The Whites such as Hitler and Imperial Expansionism may get more press and prominence in history books.
But that doesn't mean they are the only ones.

The Black slave issue gets more press and attention historically, but percentage wise that doesn't mean it is the largest in numbers. By population alone the Asian slavery is much larger, but that doesn't get as much attention.

As one math teacher joked in class, the next time someone tries to lay a guilt trip on you about the millions of starving people in China, tell them "Oh yeah? Name one" and shut them up.

Because you can't name any of the Asians killed or enslaved in historic and ongoing oppression,
how can any of those numbers be counted or compared. It can't be.

Racism is a projection and all people of all classes and cultures have projected some form of
class division to justify tribal warfare and dominance.

The Whites are better at documenting the history "linearly" which is part of the EuroLINEAR culture.

But holistically and collectively, the suffering from oppression and war from all cultures goes off the map.

If you only focus on Whites, of course, that is what you will see.
This is just a microcosm of what the whole of humanity goes through
in a learning curve to overcome injustice and work toward lasting peace and justice in stages.

The European culture tends to document things in HISTORICAL linear order
but really the process is holistic and crosses over and connects all cultures we may or may not hear about.

Stop and think for a moment. Just consider what the British, Spanish and portuguese are responsible for alone. On what continents?

Dear Hutch Starskey
Also look at the larger context: Look at the historic contributions and lifesaving impact on humanity that
some of these same cultures have offered historically.

For everything good there is something equally bad;
For everything bad there is something equally good.

In the bigger picture, humanity comes out even. For example:
America has its strong points, but those very strengths can be our downfall and our weakness.
Christian faith has saved lives and changed the world, but the religious abuses associated with it, the cults and crusades, have been purely Antichrist the exact opposite, to show that humanity has both sides. Anything good can be abused for evil, anything bad can be repurposed and used for good. There is a flipside to each thing, and we learn how to forgive and correct the worst, while making the most of the good we can find in these things.

For each person, your greatest flaw or weakness can be your saving grace,
even as your greatest strength can be the Achilles' heel that kills you.

There is a justice in the larger sense, but you have to put everything in full perspective to see it.

For every wrong and debt, there is a blessing for forgiving overcoming and correcting the damages.
So the bigger the debts, the bigger the rewards when justice and peace are restored.

where we seek restoration, then both the good and the bad will take care of themselves.
It does work out, but over many generations where both the good and bad karma or debts/blessings
are passed forward, and motivate corrections to improve on the past and build a better future.

All humanity is in this together. We fight separate battles, but they follow the same general process.
We all benefit from learning, growing and sharing from the lessons we learn for the sake of our future.

 

[Statistikhengst]

Well, after more than 1,400 postings, we see the following pattern:

Lefties have a heart and some empathy. They also know a racist when they see one.

Righties have no heart, no soul, nix empathy. Fuggedaboudit. And to them, it's only a racist if it's Sharpton, Obummer and Co. And, and if that negero pastor had just had a gun, then he wouldn't have died, so it's all his fault and fuck all of you! Oh, and the Dukes of Hazzard was a cool show and since the confedrayte flaayg flew there, it's not raycizt!

Yin is divorcing Yang, I hear...

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear Noomi
RE: Don't you think that perhaps you can actually prevent this from happening if you fucking banned guns?

Yes and no. Of course we need to keep guns out of the hands of mentally and criminally ill people such as Adam Lanza in Newtown and now Dylann Roof in this case.

However, banning guns from criminally ill people doesn't cure the criminal illness.
That's missing the very root disease and arguing over how to manage the symptoms.

If you think restraining orders are enough to keep abusers from hurting their victims,
how many people have died at the hands of someone who was "barred by law"?
The law didn't matter, they are dead all the same. It doesn't cure the CAUSE of the abusive
sick personality that rebels against authority, rules and laws to try to express control.

We have to do more than just manipulate the symptoms.
We shouldn't neglect gun safety and responsibility for enforcing legal use;
that is a critical factor in backing law enforcement in general for public safety.

But in addition to that, we need to seriously invest in stopping mental
and criminal cases from going unchecked until someone gets injured or dies.

It's not like these are random; most have trouble signs in advance and can be addressed
and prevented at that level, regardless if guns are involved. Like any other types of deady diseases, these cases can be identified and treated earlier for better chances of success.

WCSC Police searching for suspect following downtown Charleston shooting

Story is breaking. Very little info. Its an AME church. Traditionally black church. Suspect said to.be white male in early 20s who is still loose. News says 8 victims. Havent said if they're deceased or just wounded. Havent revealed their identity. No other details. Horrible story unfolding.

What sort of sick racist bastard guns down more than a dozen innocent people praying?

How many mass shootings is this so far, America? Don't you think that perhaps you can actually prevent this from happening if you fucking banned guns?

Hi Noomi if you look at the difference in ATTITUDE, the church families who are praying for this young man's soul and answering him with forgiveness in order to overcome the anger and hate and bring healing.

If you look at his twisted negative way of reacting, and even his uncle's inability to even grasp much less forgive his nephew,
this is where the change happens that saves lives, that makes the difference between abusive/retributive
personalities and those who respond with INCLUSION not rejection.

This cannot be legislated, Noomi

This is a spiritual process of agreeing to accept the higher change that comes with letting go
through forgiveness. The wrongs are still wrong, the crimes are still crimes punished by law.
Forgiveness does not change that or magically make the wrongs go away. .They are still wrong and answered for.

Forgiveness allows the mind and soul to let go of the negativity that this young man was trapped in.

Forgiveness is the key to spiritual freedom and mental stability, clear stable perception
that isn't skewed by warped emotions against one group or another, projected hate or anger outwardly.

He is very sick still. Not responding and not understanding the full extent to what he has done.
If he understood he would be as crushed as his family and the other families.
The difference is if they have the spiritual grace and support to let go and let the collective energy of Life or God
carry the weight, not take that on themselves. these people are truly blessed who are praying to uplift
and heal this young man of his sickness.

They know their souls are intact and are more concerned to save the troubled soul of this man
and his aggrieved family who are totally burdened and are having to cope with all that, not knowing how to deal with it.

If you put the spiritual health first, then the mental and physical issues will follow.
As faithful as the Black church community is, and what they have had to overcome,
if everyone pulls together at the rate they are asking, there will be a lot more healing come out of this
because the leadership is on that side and not on the side of letting hate divide people and ruin any more relations.

The church followers are rising above and setting a higher example to uplift others, so more good will come of this in the future. I hope the family sees that this man and others like him get help for their sickness, and find they can heal
and never have to live another nightmare like this.

Until we learn about the spiritual cause and cure, and solve it at the root,
then the symptoms with violence and guns will follow the anger and hatred.
When one level is cured, then the rest will follow as well. Healing will change the entire dynamic
and it will not be an issue of guns anymore, the focus will be on healthy minds and relations without division and abuse.

 

[emilynghiem]

Well, after more than 1,400 postings, we see the following pattern:

Lefties have a heart and some empathy. They also know a racist when they see one.

Righties have no heart, no soul, nix empathy. Fuggedaboudit. And to them, it's only a racist if it's Sharpton, Obummer and Co. And, and if that negero pastor had just had a gun, then he wouldn't have died, so it's all his fault and fuck all of you! Oh, and the Dukes of Hazzard was a cool show and since the confedrayte flaayg flew there, it's not raycizt!

Yin is divorcing Yang, I hear...

Dear Statistikhengst
You remind me of how many on the far right see the left as heartless,
not caring for life or freedom, but putting political control over choices first, even if it means killing the unborn, euthanizing the elderly, and denying knowledge and access to spiritual healing that could save lives because of political rejection of Christianity. More interested in pushing drugs than healing the addictions.
More interested in political power and controlling the poor through govt programs
than freeing people from dependence by teaching them to own and govern their own affairs.

Both see the other as selfish and power mongering.
it depends which audience you are focused on addressing, and which you think the other group is neglecting.
Just know that from their perspective, they think the same looking at the other side from where they are coming
from trying to solve problems while they think the opposition "doesn't care" and just defends their political control.

 

[emilynghiem]

His parents were almost certainly racists too. They raised him to do this and gave him the fucking gun. His friends heard him say he was going to it. They all need to be held accountable for their part in this.

witch hunt?

No. I'm not suggesting anyone should be considered guilty until proven innocent. But we need to start holding parents accountable when they release these dangerous animals into society.

If someone trained a vicious attack dog, let it loose in the neighborhood, and it killed innocent people, you can bet they'd be up on charges. If the parents did have any role, if they knew of his violent threats, if they goaded him on with their own hateful racism, if they gave him the gun knowing of his violent fantasies, they should be facing charges alongside him.

To put it in legal terms, if we set up means of diagnosing the level of dangers of criminal illness,
where it can be MEDICALLY confirmed to what degree such people are a danger to themselves or others,
then we can hold people accountable legally.

This is NOT to start labeling people or further stigmatizing sickness,
but to demystify it, recognize the causes and cures of these conditions,
so NOBODY runs or hides from getting help.

If we judged people for having diabetes or cancer how could they get help with early diagnosis and treatment?

So if people KNOW someone is criminally ill and dangerous
YES
I agree we have the legal responsibility to report and detain such people.
The key is medically proving a system of diagnostics where it
IS NOT depriving people of rights or freedoms without due process.

There must be a way to determine the level of sickness
just like stages of cancer and identify who needs to go in for constant supervision if
the disease is that far progressed. Get the politics out of it, stick to medical science and legal ethics,
and this can be resolved. Stop the stigma, get the resesarch and Development done so people can get help.

 

[emilynghiem]

BTW rightwinger
would you consider the Fort Hood Shooting (leaving 13 people dead)
an act of "terrorism" or "mass murder" or "workplace violence" as the govt classed it for political convenience.

If you are so adamant that this act constitutes Terrorism
what about Fort Hood, is that Terrorism or an individual committing mass murder?

What do numbers have to do with it? Fort Hood shooting was not considered an act of terrorism so how can this be?

What would make the marathon bombings terrorism but not this massacre of innocent blacks?

Is it only terrorism when Muslims do it but not when racist whites do it?

Muslim terrorist killed the Boston Marathon victims and the WTC victims because they were AMERICAN'S.

Root killed the members of the church because they were black

How is that not terrorism?

The entire Jim Crow/KKK of the south was terrorism. How is this not the same?

Yes and no rightwinger
Even Muslims were killed in the buildings in 9/11 (not just the Radical Muslim Jihadist terrorists who died)
The Terrorists didn't just target White Americans or US Soldiers but anyone and everyone in those buildings
they were attacking to make a global statement even killing Muslim Americans as part of the collateral damage.

here, the shooter was targeting Blacks specifically
and YES I get your point that he targeted a historic black church
that would maximize the publicity and statement he wanted to make in the media.

PART of what he did was like other terrorist attacks, similar to the Aurora shooter whose act of murder also involves the element of terrorism.

Another difference in how these are viewed is whether these people are acting as part of a COLLECTIVE movement or entity acting as a "national or religious identity" on its own.

If they are acting alone, they tend to be categorized as mass murderers.

If the emphasis is on the group and agenda (like Al Qaeda and Taliban) and not on individual members acting alone, this gets labelled COLLETIVELY as "terrorism" and not as individual acts of murder.

BTW rightwinger
would you consider the Fort Hood Shooting (leaving 13 people dead)
an act of "terrorism" or "mass murder" or "workplace violence" as the govt classed it for political convenience.

If you are so adamant that this act constitutes Terrorism
what about Fort Hood, is that Terrorism or an individual committing mass murder?

OK ...lets put the latest red herring to bed and label Ft Hood as a terrorist attack

Was the attack on the black church an act of terrorism?

If the people who experienced it describe it that way, yes I respect that.
If people reading or hearing about this feel "terrorized" by it, sure I'll give you that, too.

My general sense is even if it does involve the same process and strategy as terrorist attacks
this does not seem to be the primary focus or intent.
His focus was not to "terrorize" Black people or the public.

He was "shooting to kill" so the DEATHS made a statement about race,
not terrorizing anyone as the end in itself. So that may be an inseparable factor,
but given his goal, he could approach them all calmly and quietly, kill them all without
any screaming yelling or panic to alarm anybody, either inside or outside the incident,
and still achieve his goal. Which was to kill Black people to make a media statement against race.

He reminds me more of the shooter who killed the abortion doctor in church.
The focus was on killing, and any other terror or resulting reaction was a natural consequence.

thanks rightwinger
I guess the point is the same way forgiveness and justice are in the heart of the beholder,
so is terrorism. If this man and his actions terrorize people, sure, that's terrorism to them.
I can share my general response, but can't speak for this man or any others involved, so they'd have to say for themselves how it affected them.

 

[emilynghiem]

Pointing out that the black community or at least black leaders have a tendency to support black criminals is just the truth.

As the white community and "white leaders" do not do that, it is not a double standard, but different behavior being judged differently.

But even discussing the actions of black leaders and/or the black community does not blame all blacks.

Dear Correll

Excuse me but yes, the 'white' and the "wealthy" people will forgive, overlook and enable crimes, abuses and corruption of people they relate to and do not see as a threat. I have friends who believe the freedom of businesses and benefits to the economy are more important to preserve, even at the cost of abuses of this freedom.

Does that mean they coddle and enable crooks? yes, the lack of oversight and regulation does mean allowing corruption to go unchecked. Like the Republicans who won't question war spending or corporate tax breaks, but yell about social welfare.

The same way you might see this with black leaders excusing and coddling black criminals,
the same can be said of people who forgive the wealthy corporate leaders for abusing tax money and govt
to their financial benefit and living off taxpayers by "corporate welfare" while everyone complains about "social welfare"

I've had friends completely overlook abuses by corporate crooks, because they assume the system will take care of it.
So this seems like coddling crooks, because they'd rather err on the side of too much freedom, even at the cost of abuses by criminals, rather than too much govt regulation. So they look the other way, and appear to enable corporate corruption.

 

[emilynghiem]

BTW rightwinger
would you consider the Fort Hood Shooting (leaving 13 people dead)
an act of "terrorism" or "mass murder" or "workplace violence" as the govt classed it for political convenience.

If you are so adamant that this act constitutes Terrorism
what about Fort Hood, is that Terrorism or an individual committing mass murder?

What do numbers have to do with it? Fort Hood shooting was not considered an act of terrorism so how can this be?

What would make the marathon bombings terrorism but not this massacre of innocent blacks?

Is it only terrorism when Muslims do it but not when racist whites do it?

Muslim terrorist killed the Boston Marathon victims and the WTC victims because they were AMERICAN'S.

Root killed the members of the church because they were black

How is that not terrorism?

The entire Jim Crow/KKK of the south was terrorism. How is this not the same?

Yes and no rightwinger
Even Muslims were killed in the buildings in 9/11 (not just the Radical Muslim Jihadist terrorists who died)
The Terrorists didn't just target White Americans or US Soldiers but anyone and everyone in those buildings
they were attacking to make a global statement even killing Muslim Americans as part of the collateral damage.

here, the shooter was targeting Blacks specifically
and YES I get your point that he targeted a historic black church
that would maximize the publicity and statement he wanted to make in the media.

PART of what he did was like other terrorist attacks, similar to the Aurora shooter whose act of murder also involves the element of terrorism.

Another difference in how these are viewed is whether these people are acting as part of a COLLECTIVE movement or entity acting as a "national or religious identity" on its own.

If they are acting alone, they tend to be categorized as mass murderers.

If the emphasis is on the group and agenda (like Al Qaeda and Taliban) and not on individual members acting alone, this gets labelled COLLETIVELY as "terrorism" and not as individual acts of murder.

BTW rightwinger
would you consider the Fort Hood Shooting (leaving 13 people dead)
an act of "terrorism" or "mass murder" or "workplace violence" as the govt classed it for political convenience.

If you are so adamant that this act constitutes Terrorism
what about Fort Hood, is that Terrorism or an individual committing mass murder?

OK ...lets put the latest red herring to bed and label Ft Hood as a terrorist attack

Was the attack on the black church an act of terrorism?

Hi rightwinger
1. supposedly Bill O'Reilly referred to this shooter as a terrorist.
So if you are okay with O'Reilly agreeing with you, you have a backer.

2. OP-ED What the shooting in Charleston has to say to us Crescent City Jewish News
here is a Jewish pastoral type article addressing the hate crimes and attacks on Black churches
as acts of terrorism.

So yes, to answer your question, there is quite a diverse crowd that views this as an act of terrorism.

I focus more on the mental sickness and spiritual healing process of the man and all the
surviving family members and communities that have the challenge of coming together for healing
through all this aftermath.

So I see a lot more forgiveness, compassion, outreach and acceptance of higher responsibility
going on that to me far outweigh elements of terrorism, political pandering and division as undercurrents.

 

[emilynghiem]

This guy is a nut jobber...but it is not a hate crime. No such thing. He is a common criminal. Black or White. An Arab launching an attack against a nation-state is a terrorist.

No, it's clearly a HATE CRIME!!!!! Recent reports from his friends are making that perfectly clear. He was even railing about Trayvon Martin.

There is no such thing as a hate crime. Only criminal behavior.

This is not a hate crime

It goes beyond that.......it is outright terrorism

Root killed twice as many people as the terrorists at the Boston Marathon bombing

What do numbers have to do with it? Fort Hood shooting was not considered an act of terrorism so how can this be?

when the punk says y'all are raping our white women and taking over the country that's a hate crime. the guy said he wanted to start a race war. did the guy at Fort Hood say that?

1. The shooter at Fort Hood yelled "Allah Akbar" or "God is Greatest" as a recognized Jihadist war cry

2. And the reason that was not recognized as a terrorist attack is for govt political and legal convenience.
by labelling it workplace violence they avoid complications of addressing it as a terrorist attack and "combat"

Obama's strategy is to minimize and divert focus away from these attacks, not to inflame and incite more.

What he uses to inflame and incite are the police brutality cases as racist. He doesn't mind stirring that up.
And baiting people with the gun control issues, he doesn't mind pushing those buttons so he can project blame.

 

[Noomi]

Yes and no. Of course we need to keep guns out of the hands of mentally and criminally ill people such as Adam Lanza in Newtown and now Dylann Roof in this case.

The problem is that you cannot tell whether someone is criminally or mentally ill until they commit a crime such as this.

President Obama is very correct when he said that this kind of mass murder does not happen in other advanced countries. Why doesn't anyone see the obvious staring them in the face?

 

[Noomi]

No they're not. They are calling for gun bans everytime these things happen.

It happens all too often. Make it stop by banning guns but you won't, because a shiny metal toy is fucking important than saving lives.