Breaking confirmed active shooter at Texas Walmart 18 ppl shot

[Jitss617]

Another law will be created by democrats disarming another blacks neighborhood

Like the Mulford Act in California?

Want to elaborate I live in Boston

 

[Lovebears65]

 

[Defiant1]

You have a valid point, except that each case creates precedent. And we aren’t talking about gun grabbing are we? We are talking about resrptricting very specific types of guns, just as machine guns were restricted.

Define what you'd like to restrict?

It's not that easy.

I'd like tonsee the same definition... However, I'm sure "assault style" weapons/guns/firearms/rifles will be misused.
Hell's bells, I can take a bb gun and assault someone.
Assault is an action, not a weapon. Ffs

Absolutely not you fricking idiot. An attack by a BB gun is completely different than an attack by an AR-15. That is why we need to outlaw AR-15.

Get a fucking dictionary fumbduck. Maybe, just maybe you'll learn the difference between an adjective and a noun, but then again...maybe not.

If some guy is sitting in his truck watching porn while mama shops and he sees this guy park, dress up, load up and start to wak towards WalMart. Can he shoot him in the back no questions asked or would the LW kooks (like those here) call that Murder and demand he be locked away for using a gun in a gun free zone?

Yes, it would be murder. Under our constitution, the gunman has the right to load up and walk right into that mall. State and local government may have laws to stop him, but our constitution not only allows but grants the person the right.

As long as gun ownership is a right, and not a privileged what happened in El Paso and Dayton can continue everyday and twice on Sunday. As the weapons become more powerful, the number killed will keep increasing.

They happened 12 times in 2018, you nitwit......93 killed.....knives kill over 1,500 every year, cars over 38,000....according to a nitwit like you we now need to ban cars and knives......

Those weapons are no different from any other semi-auto rifle you doofus.....what allowed him to kill is time....time in a gun free zone until someone pointed a gun at him and made him stop....

At the Russian Polytechnic School shooting, you doofus......the shooter used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and killed 20 people and wounded 40....

So tell us about your theory now...

This is another idiot that makes ridiculous arguments that the number of guns and access to guns is a big part of the number of mass shootings in the US. No other country comes close to the number as mass shootings as the USA. No one wants to take guns away from those who are responsible gun owners.
Not to do more to keep guns away from the mentally ill and those with criminal intent makes you complicit in all of the mass murders.

It is already against the law for someone who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent to possess a firearm.

How would the criminal intent thing work? Will there be a number to call if I decide to go shoot up some people?

 

[bodecea]

Republicans in at least 13 states tried to file birther bills in state legislators.

Obama spent a good deal of his youth in Indonesia, not Kenya.

Obama releasing what is now known as a poorly made up birth certificate only fuels the speculation.

You cannot condemn leftists for going Full Retard over Trump and be or rationalize being a birther because it’s the exact same psychological state.

Yeah i can. There is a reason he released a fradulent certificate and it is fradulent. The question begs is why.

Couple that with refusal to release college records and the answer will be found

College records.

Jeremiah Wright.

Lots of questions. OH but he's soooooo cool. Creased pants.

What annoys me is they demand Trump's tax returns but go absolutely bonkers on demands on anything Obama.

Wait...Obama didn't provide his tax returns?

 

[theHawk]

The last paragraph in the shooter's manifesto is informative relative to his goal of slaughtering non-Americans. He says all his reasoning about all the issues facing America pre-date Trump and his campaign for the presidency. He knows though that Trump will be blamed by the media and all other leftists as he writes a manifesto worth reading. He knows he will be killed and hopes for that rather than being captured or shot by another shopper, because he will get the death penalty anyway. He also knows much of the same things I do regarding the future of America and the end of capitalism. He knows with enough Hispanics living here they will vote for the party who will give them free stuff but he realizes with the coming automation there will be fewer jobs available for the unskilled as there are today. He holds out hope for America.

I wish the article would copy and paste but alas.

"The Inconvenient Truth About Me:"

ImgurImgur

Open borders policy created this guy, will the left take responsibility?

Again....an abuser blaming the victim.

Who has been abused?

 

[bodecea]

Republicans in at least 13 states tried to file birther bills in state legislators.

Obama spent a good deal of his youth in Indonesia, not Kenya.

Obama releasing what is now known as a poorly made up birth certificate only fuels the speculation.

You cannot condemn leftists for going Full Retard over Trump and be or rationalize being a birther because it’s the exact same psychological state.

Yeah i can. There is a reason he released a fradulent certificate and it is fradulent. The question begs is why.

Couple that with refusal to release college records and the answer will be found

It’s the same thing because you believe an improbable conspiracy based on thin reeds of speculation and easily refutable questions because of your political affiliation and ideology.

It’s all the same. “X President is bad and I hate him and I’ll believe almost anything about him that’s bad no matter how improbable and outlandish.” It doesn’t matter who the President is or his political opponents are. Birthers are no different than people affiliated with TDS. ODS and TDS are the same psychological state. Only highly partisan people can’t see the difference.

I believe Obama is covering something up. You keep skipping over HE released a fradulent b/c. Why?

It wasn't fraudulent. You are delusional.

 

[Clementine]

 

[bodecea]

You cannot condemn leftists for going Full Retard over Trump and be or rationalize being a birther because it’s the exact same psychological state.

Yeah i can. There is a reason he released a fradulent certificate and it is fradulent. The question begs is why.

Couple that with refusal to release college records and the answer will be found

It’s the same thing because you believe an improbable conspiracy based on thin reeds of speculation and easily refutable questions because of your political affiliation and ideology.

It’s all the same. “X President is bad and I hate him and I’ll believe almost anything about him that’s bad no matter how improbable and outlandish.” It doesn’t matter who the President is or his political opponents are. Birthers are no different than people affiliated with TDS. ODS and TDS are the same psychological state. Only highly partisan people can’t see the difference.

I believe Obama is covering something up. You keep skipping over HE released a fradulent b/c. Why?

You’re demonstrating what I mean.

He didn’t release a fraudulent birth certificate. But you believe he did because you don’t like Obama and rely on news sources to reaffirm your views.

Yeah he did. The piece of crap was created on Adobe software. Adobe wasnt even in existence until 1982. Explain that. If not leave me alone

Simply not true....but you'll believe anything if it's put out by the RW.

 

[Flopper]

So when will America say enough is enough? Do you have to wait until someone you love gets gunned down before you say "Time to ban guns?"
Bottom line: A nutcase would not have killed and injured close to 50 people with a knife or another available weapon.
Do something about America's gun crisis. Or is the juvenile mentality of gun nuts and profits for the rich more important than children's lives?

We will never say it's enough.
But if you think it's enough, you need to get together with your vile democrat leaders, declare your independence, write up some kind of constitution or whatever for yourselves. Then you can come after us. Just make sure you come heavy.


We are ready to fight to keep our rights, if you want our rights removed you should be willing to fight to take them.

If you and your ilk don't have the balls to do it then STFU.

Rental Truck, in Nice, France....86 killed, 435 injured.

When will we say enough is enough and ban rental trucks?

Maybe when there are like 4 of those in a month.......

Then maybe you asshats will get serious about ending gun free zones.....where shooters go because they know they have at least 6 free minutes to kill....because normal people are unarmed and helpless...

Neither area was a gun free zone. There were people at Walmart that were armed and they did nothing.

Aside form the fact that most gun owners are not trained to handle shooters in public, there are legal issues. In general, most citizen can not make an arrest or detain a person. Only if firing in self defense are they on safe grounds legally.

Although a gun free zone could be a green light for a gunman it can be a problem also. In a place where guns are normally carried, another person with a gun is not likely to get much attention. The opposite is true in places where no one carries a gun.

Despite the popularity of the pro-gun “good guy with a gun” myth, civilian gun owners typically do not take down mass shooters and can actually contribute to the overall chaos. With today's high power and high capacity guns, most of the killings takes that take place in crowded open areas happens within seconds of the first shot. That means our good guy with a gun is going have to be at the right place at right time with the right weapon, and possess the skills to take down the bad guy quickly without killing innocent people.

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia
Gun laws in Ohio - Wikipedia

 

[leftwinger]

Thankyou DR. Laura Shitslinger.

How would you describe it, then, Old Yeller?

A hopeless troubled no-girlfriends? unemployed useless Punk playing video games and trying to stay high while Illegals take all the entry level jobs (constuction) and he is stuck home with no momey, not learning job skills. Forced Military boot camp for all 18 yr olds is one solution.

Learn to work, clean up, dress up, show up, respect or go to Jail for non-compliance.

If the illegals were taking all the entry level jobs, we wouldn't have 3.7% unemployment.

If the illegals were taking all the entry level jobs, we wouldn't have 3.7% unemployment

1. Find the number of unemployed people. ...
2. Find the number of employed people. ...
3. Remove people who are not considered to be in the labor force. ...
4. Divide the number of unemployed people by the total number of employed and unemployed people. ...
5. Multiply the decimal number by 100 to get the percentage.

That number (UR) always bothers me. It seems more a poll than a true measure. If you are not looking (given up) you are not counted?

Illegals are not eligible to work but those not caught do work? The GOVT dumps them here waiting on asylum hearings but they cant work? Huh? Who pays.

Kids used to work on the farm or entry level at age 13-16. Now? LW kooks wont even let them cut lawns. They push them to LW indoctrination centers (colleges) where most need to go to trade schools. The illegals drive the trucks and carry shingles up the ladder.

Illegals aren't counted so you are barking up the wrong tree. You are bothered by your own hatred, so you invent a scenario that doesn't exist. There is no evidence they are stealing American jobs. If that were really true, don't blame the illegals, blame the enablers. Why do people like you always target the wrong people? Answer, hate!

Illegals aren't counted so you are barking up the wrong tree. You are bothered by your own hatred, so you invent a scenario that doesn't exist. There is no evidence they are stealing American jobs. If that were really true, don't blame the illegals, blame the enablers. Why d

If illegals got jobs that Americans could hold then thats a problem. Correct?
If Americans give up and quit looking they are no longer counted? Correct? Just a thought.

 

[2aguy]

So when will America say enough is enough? Do you have to wait until someone you love gets gunned down before you say "Time to ban guns?"
Bottom line: A nutcase would not have killed and injured close to 50 people with a knife or another available weapon.
Do something about America's gun crisis. Or is the juvenile mentality of gun nuts and profits for the rich more important than children's lives?

We will never say it's enough.
But if you think it's enough, you need to get together with your vile democrat leaders, declare your independence, write up some kind of constitution or whatever for yourselves. Then you can come after us. Just make sure you come heavy.


We are ready to fight to keep our rights, if you want our rights removed you should be willing to fight to take them.

If you and your ilk don't have the balls to do it then STFU.

Rental Truck, in Nice, France....86 killed, 435 injured.

When will we say enough is enough and ban rental trucks?

Maybe when there are like 4 of those in a month.......

Then maybe you asshats will get serious about ending gun free zones.....where shooters go because they know they have at least 6 free minutes to kill....because normal people are unarmed and helpless...

Neither area was a gun free zone. There were people at Walmart that were armed and they did nothing.

Aside form the fact that most gun owners are not trained to handle shooters in public, there are legal issues. In general, most citizen can not make an arrest or detain a person. Only if firing in self defense is are they on safe legally.

Although a gun free zone could be a green light for a gunman it can be a problem also. In a place where guns are normally carried, another person with a gun is not likely to get much attention. The opposite is true in places where no one carries a gun.

Despite the popularity of the pro-gun “good guy with a gun” myth, civilian gun owners typically do not take down mass shooters and can actually contribute to the overall chaos. With today's high power and high capacity guns, most of the killings takes that take place in crowded open areas happens within seconds of first shot. That means our good guy with a gun is going have to be at the right place at right time and possess the skills to take down the bad guy quickly without killing innocent people.

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia
Gun laws in Ohio - Wikipedia

Wrong.....the one guy who had a gun took kids away from the danger......more guns didn't arrive until the police showed up.

And the lie that civilians don't stop mass shooters is a lie...nothing more......actual cases...why you guys keep repeating it is obvious...you hate guns and if people think that ending gun free zones will deter mass shooters, you lose...

Actual research rather than your emotions...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[2aguy]

So when will America say enough is enough? Do you have to wait until someone you love gets gunned down before you say "Time to ban guns?"
Bottom line: A nutcase would not have killed and injured close to 50 people with a knife or another available weapon.
Do something about America's gun crisis. Or is the juvenile mentality of gun nuts and profits for the rich more important than children's lives?

We will never say it's enough.
But if you think it's enough, you need to get together with your vile democrat leaders, declare your independence, write up some kind of constitution or whatever for yourselves. Then you can come after us. Just make sure you come heavy.


We are ready to fight to keep our rights, if you want our rights removed you should be willing to fight to take them.

If you and your ilk don't have the balls to do it then STFU.

Rental Truck, in Nice, France....86 killed, 435 injured.

When will we say enough is enough and ban rental trucks?

Maybe when there are like 4 of those in a month.......

Then maybe you asshats will get serious about ending gun free zones.....where shooters go because they know they have at least 6 free minutes to kill....because normal people are unarmed and helpless...

Neither area was a gun free zone. There were people at Walmart that were armed and they did nothing.

Aside form the fact that most gun owners are not trained to handle shooters in public, there are legal issues. In general, most citizen can not make an arrest or detain a person. Only if firing in self defense is are they on safe legally.

Although a gun free zone could be a green light for a gunman it can be a problem also. In a place where guns are normally carried, another person with a gun is not likely to get much attention. The opposite is true in places where no one carries a gun.

Despite the popularity of the pro-gun “good guy with a gun” myth, civilian gun owners typically do not take down mass shooters and can actually contribute to the overall chaos. With today's high power and high capacity guns, most of the killings takes that take place in crowded open areas happens within seconds of first shot. That means our good guy with a gun is going have to be at the right place at right time and possess the skills to take down the bad guy quickly without killing innocent people.

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia
Gun laws in Ohio - Wikipedia

Since most public spaces ban normal people from carrying guns you have no argument. When normal people can't carry their legal guns into places, they don't have them to stop these killers....then you guys say...see...good guys don't stop these guys....meanwhile, again, actual research of attacks where people with guns are present...not cops......they have a 94% effective rate against them..

Do you understand that actual mass shooters tell us they pick gun free zones? That the El Paso shooter stated he chose the Walmart because he thought it would be a lightly protected target?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

 

[bodecea]

It’s the same thing because you believe an improbable conspiracy based on thin reeds of speculation and easily refutable questions because of your political affiliation and ideology.

It’s all the same. “X President is bad and I hate him and I’ll believe almost anything about him that’s bad no matter how improbable and outlandish.” It doesn’t matter who the President is or his political opponents are. Birthers are no different than people affiliated with TDS. ODS and TDS are the same psychological state. Only highly partisan people can’t see the difference.

I believe Obama is covering something up. You keep skipping over HE released a fradulent b/c. Why?

You’re demonstrating what I mean.

He didn’t release a fraudulent birth certificate. But you believe he did because you don’t like Obama and rely on news sources to reaffirm your views.

Yeah he did. The piece of crap was created on Adobe software. Adobe wasnt even in existence until 1982. Explain that. If not leave me alone

No he did not.

You are believing nonsense from highly biased partisan news sites that slant or make up news to advance a political agenda, a political agenda that you agree with.

It’s no different than a liberal believing Trump was urinated on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel.

And it doesn’t matter what I post to refute what you said because you won’t believe it.

Yeah he did. Because you claim he didn't means nothing. There is no way that crap was his original certificate. It's impossible to have been done on Adobe software in the 60s. Impossible.

Fact

What is YOUR expertise on what valid birth certificates look like? What is your proof that Former President Obama's birth certificate was done on Adobe software? YOUR proof....not what someone told you....

 

[bodecea]

I believe Obama is covering something up. You keep skipping over HE released a fradulent b/c. Why?

You’re demonstrating what I mean.

He didn’t release a fraudulent birth certificate. But you believe he did because you don’t like Obama and rely on news sources to reaffirm your views.

Yeah he did. The piece of crap was created on Adobe software. Adobe wasnt even in existence until 1982. Explain that. If not leave me alone

No he did not.

You are believing nonsense from highly biased partisan news sites that slant or make up news to advance a political agenda, a political agenda that you agree with.

It’s no different than a liberal believing Trump was urinated on by a hooker in a Moscow hotel.

And it doesn’t matter what I post to refute what you said because you won’t believe it.

Yeah he did. Because you claim he didn't means nothing. There is no way that crap was his original certificate. It's impossible to have been done on Adobe software in the 60s. Impossible.

Fact

OMG!

SmellyIrishAss is a BIRTHER!

Not surprising....there's a chunk of comprehensive thinking missing in Birthers.

 

[bodecea]

Might be safer to stay in Mexico

You can stay at your girlfriend’s parents.

lol.... silly you.... incels don't have girlfriends..................

At least real ones......

 

[bodecea]

Mark Levin says:

'Democrat presidential candidates waste no time politicizing mass murders. Attack the president & 2nd amendment. Shameless, heartless, & disgusting'.

Well.....Mark Levin.....

 

[Flopper]

If some guy is sitting in his truck watching porn while mama shops and he sees this guy park, dress up, load up and start to wak towards WalMart. Can he shoot him in the back no questions asked or would the LW kooks (like those here) call that Murder and demand he be locked away for using a gun in a gun free zone?

Yes, it would be murder. Under our constitution, the gunman has the right to load up and walk right into that mall. State and local government may have laws to stop him, but our constitution not only allows but grants the person the right.

As long as gun ownership is a right, and not a privileged what happened in El Paso and Dayton can continue everyday and twice on Sunday. As the weapons become more powerful, the number killed will keep increasing.

They happened 12 times in 2018, you nitwit......93 killed.....knives kill over 1,500 every year, cars over 38,000....according to a nitwit like you we now need to ban cars and knives......

Those weapons are no different from any other semi-auto rifle you doofus.....what allowed him to kill is time....time in a gun free zone until someone pointed a gun at him and made him stop....

At the Russian Polytechnic School shooting, you doofus......the shooter used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun and killed 20 people and wounded 40....

So tell us about your theory now...

I don't respond to relies that do not address my post.

 

[playtime]

Might be safer to stay in Mexico

You can stay at your girlfriend’s parents.

lol.... silly you.... incels don't have girlfriends..................

Projecting?

since i just celebrated my 34th wedding anniversary with my husband, i would say you must be asking for yerself.

cool story.

 

[playtime]

 

[Flopper]

We will never say it's enough.
But if you think it's enough, you need to get together with your vile democrat leaders, declare your independence, write up some kind of constitution or whatever for yourselves. Then you can come after us. Just make sure you come heavy.


We are ready to fight to keep our rights, if you want our rights removed you should be willing to fight to take them.

If you and your ilk don't have the balls to do it then STFU.

Rental Truck, in Nice, France....86 killed, 435 injured.

When will we say enough is enough and ban rental trucks?

Maybe when there are like 4 of those in a month.......

Then maybe you asshats will get serious about ending gun free zones.....where shooters go because they know they have at least 6 free minutes to kill....because normal people are unarmed and helpless...

Neither area was a gun free zone. There were people at Walmart that were armed and they did nothing.

Aside form the fact that most gun owners are not trained to handle shooters in public, there are legal issues. In general, most citizen can not make an arrest or detain a person. Only if firing in self defense is are they on safe legally.

Although a gun free zone could be a green light for a gunman it can be a problem also. In a place where guns are normally carried, another person with a gun is not likely to get much attention. The opposite is true in places where no one carries a gun.

Despite the popularity of the pro-gun “good guy with a gun” myth, civilian gun owners typically do not take down mass shooters and can actually contribute to the overall chaos. With today's high power and high capacity guns, most of the killings takes that take place in crowded open areas happens within seconds of first shot. That means our good guy with a gun is going have to be at the right place at right time and possess the skills to take down the bad guy quickly without killing innocent people.

Gun laws in Texas - Wikipedia
Gun laws in Ohio - Wikipedia

Wrong.....the one guy who had a gun took kids away from the danger......more guns didn't arrive until the police showed up.

And the lie that civilians don't stop mass shooters is a lie...nothing more......actual cases...why you guys keep repeating it is obvious...you hate guns and if people think that ending gun free zones will deter mass shooters, you lose...

Actual research rather than your emotions...

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

As long as you pick the right numbers, you can prove almost anything. The FBI has also found unarmed ‘good guys’ doing more than armed ‘good guys’. In Dayton, an unarmed bouncer grabbed the barrel of the gun blocking the gunman from entering the bar.

A Study of Active Shooter Incidents in the United States Between 2000 and 2013 | Federal Bureau of Investigation