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deflect how ? OS quotes - " If the IRS is shown to have deliberately covered up this scandal it could very well be what starts a serious discussion of alternative methods of tax collection that would do away with the IRS"
so do YOU care to discuss alternative methods to collect tax ?
I mentioned a Fair Tax and you?
or do you just want to slobber about something else irrelevant ?
you decide.
I was simply responding to your statement that we were stuck with the IRS no matter what. That isn't the case. There are alternatives to the IRS if they are shown to be so corrupt that they can't be trusted.
Which brings us right back to the hard drive "crashes". Nobody with functioning gray matter between their ears buys that scenario. It's an obvious attempt to cover up what took place at the IRS. So the question then becomes...what do we do to punish those responsible?
and I was responding to Rabid-I .. I ask one or two questions about those emails and everyone wanted to deflect, but the bottom line is pretty simple ... ever since Rove came close to getting his butt busted for spending $$ that was probably over the limit according to lawyers (anyway) , the right has been hell bent on busting up the already understaffed IRS by keeping them busy with BS rather than have them take a hard look at 501(c)(4) applications and groups that file them ... none of that is a secret unless you live under a rock.
ergo; IMO the email BS is just another pile of RW BS ... the IRS dodges left and right, the RW boo hoo's like babies keeping the IRS busy, and the country listens , and suffers through yet another salvo or political horsehockey.
aaaaaacccccckkkkkkkkk ...
What was she under tremendous pressure to do? Quit avoiding.
Already answered that. Now, where and when did she claim that it was conservative groups that she was under pressure to do something about?
Your answer made no sense. Why would she be under pressure to do her job?
So what is the answer?
You know what it is: She was under tremendous pressure by Democrats to rein in tax exempt conservative orgs. It can't be anything else.
Already answered that. Now, where and when did she claim that it was conservative groups that she was under pressure to do something about?
Your answer made no sense. Why would she be under pressure to do her job?
So what is the answer?
You know what it is: She was under tremendous pressure by Democrats to rein in tax exempt conservative orgs. It can't be anything else.
What I know and what you claim she stated as fact are two different things.
deflect how ? OS quotes - " If the IRS is shown to have deliberately covered up this scandal it could very well be what starts a serious discussion of alternative methods of tax collection that would do away with the IRS"
so do YOU care to discuss alternative methods to collect tax ?
I mentioned a Fair Tax and you?
or do you just want to slobber about something else irrelevant ?
you decide.
I was simply responding to your statement that we were stuck with the IRS no matter what. That isn't the case. There are alternatives to the IRS if they are shown to be so corrupt that they can't be trusted.
Which brings us right back to the hard drive "crashes". Nobody with functioning gray matter between their ears buys that scenario. It's an obvious attempt to cover up what took place at the IRS. So the question then becomes...what do we do to punish those responsible?
and I was responding to Rabid-I .. I ask one or two questions about those emails and everyone wanted to deflect, but the bottom line is pretty simple ... ever since Rove came close to getting his butt busted for spending $$ that was probably over the limit according to lawyers (anyway) , the right has been hell bent on busting up the already understaffed IRS by keeping them busy with BS rather than have them take a hard look at 501(c)(4) applications and groups that file them ... none of that is a secret unless you live under a rock.
ergo; IMO the email BS is just another pile of RW BS ... the IRS dodges left and right, the RW boo hoo's like babies keeping the IRS busy, and the country listens , and suffers through yet another salvo or political horsehockey.
aaaaaacccccckkkkkkkkk ...
Follow who benefits the most Rabbi, and Republican Party Members of Old, benefit the MOST by wiping out their inner competition with Tea Party Members.... That's just as logical as your side's accusations that Obama ordered this....isn't it? And yes, that letter from Camp COULD more than likely be to help Rove and his big donors from being found out....and being taxed for their supposed "gifts"....I was simply responding to your statement that we were stuck with the IRS no matter what. That isn't the case. There are alternatives to the IRS if they are shown to be so corrupt that they can't be trusted.
Which brings us right back to the hard drive "crashes". Nobody with functioning gray matter between their ears buys that scenario. It's an obvious attempt to cover up what took place at the IRS. So the question then becomes...what do we do to punish those responsible?
and I was responding to Rabid-I .. I ask one or two questions about those emails and everyone wanted to deflect, but the bottom line is pretty simple ... ever since Rove came close to getting his butt busted for spending $$ that was probably over the limit according to lawyers (anyway) , the right has been hell bent on busting up the already understaffed IRS by keeping them busy with BS rather than have them take a hard look at 501(c)(4) applications and groups that file them ... none of that is a secret unless you live under a rock.
ergo; IMO the email BS is just another pile of RW BS ... the IRS dodges left and right, the RW boo hoo's like babies keeping the IRS busy, and the country listens , and suffers through yet another salvo or political horsehockey.
aaaaaacccccckkkkkkkkk ...
So, wait. You think that the entire scandal is because Republicans are out for the IRS because the IRS went after Rove for potentially illegal campaign contributions?
Seriously? That's the dumbest thing I've seen since Care4me suggested Lois Lerner is really a GOP plant.
The IRS is seriously out of control. That's obvious. And it isnt just this scandal either.
Follow who benefits the most Rabbi, and Republican Party Members of Old, benefit the MOST by wiping out their inner competition with Tea Party Members.... That's just as logical as your side's accusations that Obama ordered this....isn't it? And yes, that letter from Camp COULD more than likely be to help Rove and his big donors from being found out....and being taxed for their supposed "gifts"....and I was responding to Rabid-I .. I ask one or two questions about those emails and everyone wanted to deflect, but the bottom line is pretty simple ... ever since Rove came close to getting his butt busted for spending $$ that was probably over the limit according to lawyers (anyway) , the right has been hell bent on busting up the already understaffed IRS by keeping them busy with BS rather than have them take a hard look at 501(c)(4) applications and groups that file them ... none of that is a secret unless you live under a rock.
ergo; IMO the email BS is just another pile of RW BS ... the IRS dodges left and right, the RW boo hoo's like babies keeping the IRS busy, and the country listens , and suffers through yet another salvo or political horsehockey.
aaaaaacccccckkkkkkkkk ...
So, wait. You think that the entire scandal is because Republicans are out for the IRS because the IRS went after Rove for potentially illegal campaign contributions?
Seriously? That's the dumbest thing I've seen since Care4me suggested Lois Lerner is really a GOP plant.
The IRS is seriously out of control. That's obvious. And it isnt just this scandal either.
7 Republican group apps were audited
100 and something Tea Party apps were questioned
6 Democratic group applications were audited
Looks like "favoritism" was given to both the Democratic party and the Republican Party members of old.
And then you claim a letter sent to Schulman of the IRS, the Republican Appointed Head of the Irs division, from Camp 10 days prior to the hard drive crash, was the reason for her crash, and that Camp's letter was about focusing on conservative groups, which is FALSE and it does not state that at all in the letter.....when Irs knew in early May of the request for more information of the Gift Tax, so a month or 2 beforehand, not 10 days, also failing to account that Schulmer did not even talk to Learner about this situation until the very end of June, which is DOCUMENTED.
The letter that supposedly led to the crash of Lois Lerner?s hard drive - The Washington Post
There is a lot of liberty being taken in all of these accusations, when what we need is actual facts....
or at least circumstantial evidence to support your speculation....
Like:
Did the hard drives that crashed, all crash at once? Did they crash separately? Were there any other hard drive crashes involved with people of no interest to this investigation at the same time? How many hard drives have crashed at the Irs over the last 5 years? Was this time period of the Learner hard drive crash/crashes an unusual period, with more crashes than usual? What percentage, are these 7 hard drive crashes of suspicion, of the total irs hard drive crashes? What was the common practice of Irs employees, for saving emails, and how did that differ from regulations? Was it learner and these other 7 crashed computers of interest users, the only people at the IRS that did not make hard paper copies of their emails? Or was this normal practice by all at the IRS, and if so, why? Did it follow protocol? Is there any possibility of this information being stored on a server somewhere? Is there a way to trace who may have intentionally crashed a hard drive...what would it take for 7 people being able to do this on their own? Is this even a case where 7 individuals could crash their own hard drives individually? Or did all of these hard drives somehow get hit all at once with a crash?
A lot of the answers to the questions above, could help in discerning what really happened.
And what about the communication on the other end? Who got these phantom emails? Can information be gotten from these other computers? I heard over 750 of these supposed emails missing were recovered from other employee's that were copied....?
We do need answers, but the right questions are not being asked imo....
And then we have the whole issue of whether this money donated by these super super rich donors, should be tax deductible gifts or not...the law implies NOT, but the Camp letter is telling IRS, the law and regulations should be IGNORED, because it was never paid attention to in the past, and the IRS dropped their audits on these 5....
NOW HOW IS THAT NOT ILLEGAL or WRONG, of these Republicans? How is telling the IRS head, to ignore the law on gift taxes for 501c4's not wrong?
And also, politics aside, do all of you think that these huge donations and all donations to political pacs should not be in the Sunshine, should be in Darkness? I think we should know who is paying for our politicians...it's the only way to keep things on the up and up...SUNSHINE.
This is such an obvious coverup of what took place at the IRS that it's laughable to anyone to contend differently. Yet here you are...attempting to do just that...
no, I want proof that it is NOT happenstance, to be able to support your theory....not assumptions, but real, tangible proof....surely this can be gotten? Saying that it is too off the wall for this to be happenstance, and knowing as fact that this did not happen by happenstance, are 2 different things, especially in a court of Law....or when criminal accusations or slander, are being touted....Follow who benefits the most Rabbi, and Republican Party Members of Old, benefit the MOST by wiping out their inner competition with Tea Party Members.... That's just as logical as your side's accusations that Obama ordered this....isn't it? And yes, that letter from Camp COULD more than likely be to help Rove and his big donors from being found out....and being taxed for their supposed "gifts"....So, wait. You think that the entire scandal is because Republicans are out for the IRS because the IRS went after Rove for potentially illegal campaign contributions?
Seriously? That's the dumbest thing I've seen since Care4me suggested Lois Lerner is really a GOP plant.
The IRS is seriously out of control. That's obvious. And it isnt just this scandal either.
7 Republican group apps were audited
100 and something Tea Party apps were questioned
6 Democratic group applications were audited
Looks like "favoritism" was given to both the Democratic party and the Republican Party members of old.
And then you claim a letter sent to Schulman of the IRS, the Republican Appointed Head of the Irs division, from Camp 10 days prior to the hard drive crash, was the reason for her crash, and that Camp's letter was about focusing on conservative groups, which is FALSE and it does not state that at all in the letter.....when Irs knew in early May of the request for more information of the Gift Tax, so a month or 2 beforehand, not 10 days, also failing to account that Schulmer did not even talk to Learner about this situation until the very end of June, which is DOCUMENTED.
The letter that supposedly led to the crash of Lois Lerner?s hard drive - The Washington Post
There is a lot of liberty being taken in all of these accusations, when what we need is actual facts....
or at least circumstantial evidence to support your speculation....
Like:
Did the hard drives that crashed, all crash at once? Did they crash separately? Were there any other hard drive crashes involved with people of no interest to this investigation at the same time? How many hard drives have crashed at the Irs over the last 5 years? Was this time period of the Learner hard drive crash/crashes an unusual period, with more crashes than usual? What percentage, are these 7 hard drive crashes of suspicion, of the total irs hard drive crashes? What was the common practice of Irs employees, for saving emails, and how did that differ from regulations? Was it learner and these other 7 crashed computers of interest users, the only people at the IRS that did not make hard paper copies of their emails? Or was this normal practice by all at the IRS, and if so, why? Did it follow protocol? Is there any possibility of this information being stored on a server somewhere? Is there a way to trace who may have intentionally crashed a hard drive...what would it take for 7 people being able to do this on their own? Is this even a case where 7 individuals could crash their own hard drives individually? Or did all of these hard drives somehow get hit all at once with a crash?
A lot of the answers to the questions above, could help in discerning what really happened.
And what about the communication on the other end? Who got these phantom emails? Can information be gotten from these other computers? I heard over 750 of these supposed emails missing were recovered from other employee's that were copied....?
We do need answers, but the right questions are not being asked imo....
And then we have the whole issue of whether this money donated by these super super rich donors, should be tax deductible gifts or not...the law implies NOT, but the Camp letter is telling IRS, the law and regulations should be IGNORED, because it was never paid attention to in the past, and the IRS dropped their audits on these 5....
NOW HOW IS THAT NOT ILLEGAL or WRONG, of these Republicans? How is telling the IRS head, to ignore the law on gift taxes for 501c4's not wrong?
And also, politics aside, do all of you think that these huge donations and all donations to political pacs should not be in the Sunshine, should be in Darkness? I think we should know who is paying for our politicians...it's the only way to keep things on the up and up...SUNSHINE.
Do you REALLY want to claim that the hard drive crashes of the Head of Exempt Organizations, the Chief of Staff of the Director of the IRS, the Head of IRS public relations and 4 of the agents working in the office that handles exempt organizations is simple happenstance? And that this all took place after Camp's letter arrives at the IRS? And that nobody retrieves any of this lost data even though it is backed up on tape? And that none of these people have made paper copies of this data even though they are required by law to do so?
Is that what you're REALLY going to go with, Care?
Your answer made no sense. Why would she be under pressure to do her job?
So what is the answer?
You know what it is: She was under tremendous pressure by Democrats to rein in tax exempt conservative orgs. It can't be anything else.
What I know and what you claim she stated as fact are two different things.
How come the investigator the president hired did not ask to see emails and hard drives of the subject of the investigation or interview the alleged victims before determining that no crimes were committed?
What evidence did she review that showed lerner did nothing criminal?
And before you simply answer "I don't know".....
Why would the President accept her findings as conclusive if, in fact, she did not have access to emails and hard drives of Lois Lerner?
And before you answer "I don't know"....
If you were a victim of a rogue banker who stole all of your money....would you be satisfied with findings of "no crime committed" if the investigator did not interview you or look at any of the electronic records of the banker?
Or are you going to do what everyone else on the left has done and ignore these questions?
no, I want proof that it is NOT happenstance, to be able to support your theory....not assumptions, but real, tangible proof....surely this can be gotten? Saying that it is too off the wall for this to be happenstance, and knowing as fact that this did not happen by happenstance, are 2 different things, especially in a court of Law....or when criminal accusations or slander, are being touted....Follow who benefits the most Rabbi, and Republican Party Members of Old, benefit the MOST by wiping out their inner competition with Tea Party Members.... That's just as logical as your side's accusations that Obama ordered this....isn't it? And yes, that letter from Camp COULD more than likely be to help Rove and his big donors from being found out....and being taxed for their supposed "gifts"....
7 Republican group apps were audited
100 and something Tea Party apps were questioned
6 Democratic group applications were audited
Looks like "favoritism" was given to both the Democratic party and the Republican Party members of old.
And then you claim a letter sent to Schulman of the IRS, the Republican Appointed Head of the Irs division, from Camp 10 days prior to the hard drive crash, was the reason for her crash, and that Camp's letter was about focusing on conservative groups, which is FALSE and it does not state that at all in the letter.....when Irs knew in early May of the request for more information of the Gift Tax, so a month or 2 beforehand, not 10 days, also failing to account that Schulmer did not even talk to Learner about this situation until the very end of June, which is DOCUMENTED.
The letter that supposedly led to the crash of Lois Lerner?s hard drive - The Washington Post
There is a lot of liberty being taken in all of these accusations, when what we need is actual facts....
or at least circumstantial evidence to support your speculation....
Like:
Did the hard drives that crashed, all crash at once? Did they crash separately? Were there any other hard drive crashes involved with people of no interest to this investigation at the same time? How many hard drives have crashed at the Irs over the last 5 years? Was this time period of the Learner hard drive crash/crashes an unusual period, with more crashes than usual? What percentage, are these 7 hard drive crashes of suspicion, of the total irs hard drive crashes? What was the common practice of Irs employees, for saving emails, and how did that differ from regulations? Was it learner and these other 7 crashed computers of interest users, the only people at the IRS that did not make hard paper copies of their emails? Or was this normal practice by all at the IRS, and if so, why? Did it follow protocol? Is there any possibility of this information being stored on a server somewhere? Is there a way to trace who may have intentionally crashed a hard drive...what would it take for 7 people being able to do this on their own? Is this even a case where 7 individuals could crash their own hard drives individually? Or did all of these hard drives somehow get hit all at once with a crash?
A lot of the answers to the questions above, could help in discerning what really happened.
And what about the communication on the other end? Who got these phantom emails? Can information be gotten from these other computers? I heard over 750 of these supposed emails missing were recovered from other employee's that were copied....?
We do need answers, but the right questions are not being asked imo....
And then we have the whole issue of whether this money donated by these super super rich donors, should be tax deductible gifts or not...the law implies NOT, but the Camp letter is telling IRS, the law and regulations should be IGNORED, because it was never paid attention to in the past, and the IRS dropped their audits on these 5....
NOW HOW IS THAT NOT ILLEGAL or WRONG, of these Republicans? How is telling the IRS head, to ignore the law on gift taxes for 501c4's not wrong?
And also, politics aside, do all of you think that these huge donations and all donations to political pacs should not be in the Sunshine, should be in Darkness? I think we should know who is paying for our politicians...it's the only way to keep things on the up and up...SUNSHINE.
Do you REALLY want to claim that the hard drive crashes of the Head of Exempt Organizations, the Chief of Staff of the Director of the IRS, the Head of IRS public relations and 4 of the agents working in the office that handles exempt organizations is simple happenstance? And that this all took place after Camp's letter arrives at the IRS? And that nobody retrieves any of this lost data even though it is backed up on tape? And that none of these people have made paper copies of this data even though they are required by law to do so?
Is that what you're REALLY going to go with, Care?
You don't get it....a month before camp's formal letter, the irs was notified of the letter and gift tax situation...so it was 1 to 2 months before the crashed hard drives that the irs was aware of the situation with gift tax issues...shouldn't she have crashed all those hard drives back then instead of waiting 6 weeks, if your contention is correct, that she was trying to hide something regarding the gift tax issue of these 5 PACS that were being audited that Camp's 1st letter was about?
And you say all of this was backed up on tape, is this true? has this been proven? Where are these 'tapes'? (or server files) link or it didn't happen!
What I know and what you claim she stated as fact are two different things.
How come the investigator the president hired did not ask to see emails and hard drives of the subject of the investigation or interview the alleged victims before determining that no crimes were committed?
What evidence did she review that showed lerner did nothing criminal?
And before you simply answer "I don't know".....
Why would the President accept her findings as conclusive if, in fact, she did not have access to emails and hard drives of Lois Lerner?
And before you answer "I don't know"....
If you were a victim of a rogue banker who stole all of your money....would you be satisfied with findings of "no crime committed" if the investigator did not interview you or look at any of the electronic records of the banker?
Or are you going to do what everyone else on the left has done and ignore these questions?
None of those answer the question about what rabbi claimed as fact.
What I find astounding, Care...is your total ignorance about the tape back up that wasn't used and the paper copies required by law that were never made. I'm curious...what is your usual news source? What do you read or watch that didn't cover any of this?
I am well aware of all of that and thus my thousand and 1 questions....What I find astounding, Care...is your total ignorance about the tape back up that wasn't used and the paper copies required by law that were never made. I'm curious...what is your usual news source? What do you read or watch that didn't cover any of this?
Huh?
Care comes across as well informed.
She was not aware that not only were the emails lost on the hard drive....but none saved on the IRS server...none saved on the blackberry server and no paper copies have been found? Is she also not aware that paper copies are required by law?
Care....is it true you were not aware of this?
That is not a dig on you Care....it is concerning that the media is not doing their job.
You really did not know about this?
How come the investigator the president hired did not ask to see emails and hard drives of the subject of the investigation or interview the alleged victims before determining that no crimes were committed?
What evidence did she review that showed lerner did nothing criminal?
And before you simply answer "I don't know".....
Why would the President accept her findings as conclusive if, in fact, she did not have access to emails and hard drives of Lois Lerner?
And before you answer "I don't know"....
If you were a victim of a rogue banker who stole all of your money....would you be satisfied with findings of "no crime committed" if the investigator did not interview you or look at any of the electronic records of the banker?
Or are you going to do what everyone else on the left has done and ignore these questions?
None of those answer the question about what rabbi claimed as fact.
So in other words, you TOO refuse to address my questions.
FYI Boo....you and I have been debating this topic for weeks now......it has to do with the overall topic...
You have been saying there is nothing there and it is a GOP witch hunt and a waste of tax payer money (exactly what Pelosi and the rest of them expected you to regurgitate...and you did)
SO please....address my questions......
Bet you don't!
