Breaking- West Antarctic ice sheetin peril

[flacaltenn]

Those studies said zilch about new volcanoes causing addition ice melt around Antarctica. They said there's always been some volcanic activity beneath the ice. The part about new volcanoes is unsupported denier speculation, necessary because deniers don't have any real data backing them up.

That response is PROBABLY sufficient to make you the single entry on my ignore list.. Because you are so damn clueless after investing HUNDREDS of hour in this forum. First , you spout off that is NO EVIDENCE of volcanic at acivitivity at the WAIS. .THEN when REMINDED of this isn't true, you manufacture the ignorant fiction that only NEW volcanic acctivity matters. All while KNOWING that every single published paper about the "demise of the WAIS " and it's inevitalable catastastophic effeects on the SLevels, starts off with a disclaimer with how little is KNOWN about the source of the "war4m water intrusions or the effect or rates on the grounding lines.


So little is ACTUALLY KNOWN --- that NO ONE ought to making the claim that CO2 in the atmos is the cause.
IN FACT --- it is not necessary for the volcanic activity to be NEW at all. It only has to be sporadiccally cycling from active to dormant as vulcanism is prone to do.....

All a rational person needs to hear is what I posted and you ignored...

Now, a new study finds that these subglacial volcanoes and other geothermal "hotspots" are contributing to the melting of Thwaites Glacier, a major river of ice that flows into Antarctica's Pine Island Bay. Areas of the glacier that sit near geologic features thought to be volcanic are melting faster than regions farther away from hotspots, said Dustin Schroeder, the study's lead author and a geophysicist at the University of Texas at Austin.
This melting could significantly affect ice loss in the West Antarctic, an area that is losing ice quickly.

 

[Crick]

Ice, melts.
Also, your bottom graph is a hockey stick, the hockey stick phenomenon has been well documented to be AGW science hackery.

Ice melts? My, that IS fucking profound. And hockey sticks are well documented hackery? Where can we find such documentation?

You'd have to look outside your comfort zone, out side the "You too can be heroic, and save mother gaia" echo chamber you seem to be content in.

The rise and fall of the Hockey Stick

I've read both sides, yours tends to be fantastical with unrealistic solutions.

if it could have been natural it must have been natural?

God are you fucking STUPID.

 

[Renae]

Ice, melts.
Also, your bottom graph is a hockey stick, the hockey stick phenomenon has been well documented to be AGW science hackery.

Ice melts? My, that IS fucking profound. And hockey sticks are well documented hackery? Where can we find such documentation?

You'd have to look outside your comfort zone, out side the "You too can be heroic, and save mother gaia" echo chamber you seem to be content in.

The rise and fall of the Hockey Stick

I've read both sides, yours tends to be fantastical with unrealistic solutions.

if it could have been natural it must have been natural?

God are you fucking STUPID.

Since you have to resort to insulting me, I've won the argument. I don't doubt that man has an impact on this earth, only a fool says otherwise. However this whole AGW thing, it's a pure political group think at this point. Whatever validity the movement had died years ago as it descended into madness and scaremonger. "THE EARTH IS DOOMED!!! WINTERS WITHOUT SNOW! ICE FREE ARCTICS!!!" - were the cries. "What do we do about?" came the reply.
The answer?
"Pay higher taxes, transfer wealth to the third world (through the UN of course), lower your standard of living, pay much more for energy, more laws, regulations and control over your life."

When questioned on how much that would avert in terms of warming in 100 years?
0.5C or less

If you question the science, if you question the solution, you are attacked.

You want to call me stupid, be my guest. I'll let the common sense of the situation determine whose earned that label.

 

[Old Rocks]

Volcanic sea floor eruptions - around the world - have increased exponentially over the past several years - along with an alarming increase in volcanic activity above the surface of the oceans.

No, there's no evidence for that. There's been a mild increase in surface vulcanism, but that has a slight cooling effect due to volcanic aerosols.

If undersea volcanoes were heating the oceans and melting ice, the local hotspots in the ocean would be clearly visible. They're not, hence undersea volcanoes aren't doing anything special. It would take something like a thousand-fold increase in undersea volcanoes to make the kind of heat you're postulating, and there's zero evidence of such a thing.

ZERO evidence. A thousand fold increase in undersea volcanoes..

Dude -- you are so BADLY informed on this topic.. I just have to write Nutticelli at skepshitscience a memo that the material there is too tough for squidward. PLEASE dumb it down some more.. The guy is really struggling to keep up..

Hidden Volcanoes Melt Antarctic Glaciers from Below : DNews

Antarctica is a land of ice. But dive below the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, and you'll find fire as well, in the form of subglacial volcanoes.

Now, a new study finds that these subglacial volcanoes and other geothermal "hotspots" are contributing to the melting of Thwaites Glacier, a major river of ice that flows into Antarctica's Pine Island Bay. Areas of the glacier that sit near geologic features thought to be volcanic are melting faster than regions farther away from hotspots, said Dustin Schroeder, the study's lead author and a geophysicist at the University of Texas at Austin.


This melting could significantly affect ice loss in the West Antarctic, an area that is losing ice quickly.


Study finds surprisingly high geothermal heating beneath West Antarctic Ice Sheet


Study finds surprisingly high geothermal heating beneath West Antarctic Ice Sheet
UC Santa Cruz team reports first direct measurement of heat flow from deep within the Earth to the bottom of the West Antarctic ice sheet
July 10, 2015
By Tim Stephens

UCSC researchers lowered a geothermal probe through a borehole in the West Antarctic ice sheet to measure temperatures in the sediments beneath half a mile of ice. (Photo courtesy of WISSARD/UCSC)
The amount of heat flowing toward the base of the West Antarctic ice sheet from geothermal sources deep within the Earth is surprisingly high, according to a new study led by UC Santa Cruz researchers. The results, published July 10 in Science Advances, provide important data for researchers trying to predict the fate of the ice sheet, which has experienced rapid melting over the past decade.

Lead author Andrew Fisher, professor of Earth and planetary sciences at UC Santa Cruz, emphasized that the geothermal heating reported in this study does not explain the alarming loss of ice from West Antarctica that has been documented by other researchers. "The ice sheet developed and evolved with the geothermal heat flux coming up from below--it's part of the system. But this could help explain why the ice sheet is so unstable. When you add the effects of global warming, things can start to change quickly," he said.


To paraphrase Dr Dean Edell. When you see hot springs under Antarctic glaciers -- you shouldn't first think of CO2 -- you should think about HOW how springs and water sources COMMONLY manifest..

You too Roxie --- you been told about this before in this forum. You guys got put down the bibles and start using common sense and multiple CURRENT and accurate sources of info.,.

Hidden Volcanoes Melt Antarctic Glaciers from Below : DNews

West Antarctica is also hemorrhaging ice due to climate change, and recent studies have suggested there is no way to reverse the retreat of West Antarctic glaciers. However, the timing of this retreat is still in question, Schroeder said — it could take hundreds of years, or thousands. It's important to understand which, given that meltwater from the West Antarctic Ice Sheet contributes directly to sea level rise

Hidden Volcanoes Melt Antarctic Glaciers from Below : DNews, this is from your first article. Looks as if you have once again posted an article that states opposite from what you claim.

 

[Old Rocks]

Lead author Andrew Fisher, professor of Earth and planetary sciences at UC Santa Cruz, emphasized that the geothermal heating reported in this study does not explain the alarming loss of ice from West Antarctica that has been documented by other researchers. "The ice sheet developed and evolved with the geothermal heat flux coming up from below--it's part of the system. But this could help explain why the ice sheet is so unstable. When you add the effects of global warming, things can start to change quickly," he said.

Study finds surprisingly high geothermal heating beneath West Antarctic Ice Sheet

From your second article. Mr. Flacaltenn, do you consider what you state, compared to what the article states, to be accurate commentary? You are approaching Mr. Westwall in credibility.

 

[Old Rocks]

If you feel the request for a link to data supporting your hypothesis is an insult, you are obviously a fraud.

No Roxie -- YOU have a memory problem. We've discussed the vulcanism going on below the West Antarctic -- YOU convieniently PURGE all confounding truths from your system..

We don't need to link to stuff that's already been discussed here and SHOULD be known by anyone GRIEVING about the stability of the WAIShelf..

Now I have quoted statements from the authors of the articles, within the articles, that directly contradict what you are claiming. What is your agenda that you should be trying to bend what the arcticles written by these scientists say?

 

[skookerasbil]

Message to the OP.......now worries.......a huge % of Antarctic is growing like nobody's business.


Many, many links about it posted in this thread over the last 4 years!!! >>

More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!


And nobody cares anyway........get some real responsibilities in life and you stop worrying about stoopid stuff!!

 

[Old Rocks]

Ice, melts.
Also, your bottom graph is a hockey stick, the hockey stick phenomenon has been well documented to be AGW science hackery.

Ice melts? My, that IS fucking profound. And hockey sticks are well documented hackery? Where can we find such documentation?

You'd have to look outside your comfort zone, out side the "You too can be heroic, and save mother gaia" echo chamber you seem to be content in.

The rise and fall of the Hockey Stick

I've read both sides, yours tends to be fantastical with unrealistic solutions.

if it could have been natural it must have been natural?

God are you fucking STUPID.

Since you have to resort to insulting me, I've won the argument. I don't doubt that man has an impact on this earth, only a fool says otherwise. However this whole AGW thing, it's a pure political group think at this point. Whatever validity the movement had died years ago as it descended into madness and scaremonger. "THE EARTH IS DOOMED!!! WINTERS WITHOUT SNOW! ICE FREE ARCTICS!!!" - were the cries. "What do we do about?" came the reply.
The answer?
"Pay higher taxes, transfer wealth to the third world (through the UN of course), lower your standard of living, pay much more for energy, more laws, regulations and control over your life."

When questioned on how much that would avert in terms of warming in 100 years?
0.5C or less

If you question the science, if you question the solution, you are attacked.

You want to call me stupid, be my guest. I'll let the common sense of the situation determine whose earned that label.

You are fucking stupid. No one is predicting doom. What is being predicted is a more difficult time in the future due to stupid asses like you ignoring reality. If you question the science, then present counter arguements based on science. As far as preventing the consequences from the 400 ppm+ CO2 already in the atmosphere, not going to happen. What we can prevent, provided the consequences of the 400 ppm+ in the Arctic does not prevent it, is the consequences of 500+ ppm.

 

[Old Rocks]

Message to the OP.......now worries.......a huge % of Antarctic is growing like nobody's business.


Many, many links about it posted in this thread over the last 4 years!!! >>

More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!


And nobody cares anyway........get some real responsibilities in life and you stop worrying about stoopid stuff!!

No link, no credibility.

 

[mamooth]

That response is PROBABLY sufficient to make you the single entry on my ignore list..

Boring.

Because you are so damn clueless after investing HUNDREDS of hour in this forum. First , you spout off that is NO EVIDENCE of volcanic at activity at the WAIS.

No, I said nothing like that. Try responding what I wrote, instead of what you wish I'd written.

THEN when REMINDED of this isn't true, you manufacture the ignorant fiction that only NEW volcanic activity matters.

Anyone with common sense understands that. If that old volcanic activity had not caused any ice sheet retreats for thousands of years, then it's clear that then that old volcanic activity couldn't be causing it now, and that significant new volcanic activity would be necessary. You've shown no evidence for such a thing.

All while KNOWING that every single published paper about the "demise of the WAIS " and it's inevitable catastrophic effects on the SLevels, starts off with a disclaimer with how little is KNOWN about the source of the "warm water intrusions or the effect or rates on the grounding lines.

So once more, we see your "We don't know every single thing ... therefore my magical theory with no evidence to back it up has to be correct!" line of reasoning.

That's not how science works. You don't get to wave your hands around and invoke magic. You have to back up your magic. You haven't.

 

[skookerasbil]

Message to the OP.......now worries.......a huge % of Antarctic is growing like nobody's business.


Many, many links about it posted in this thread over the last 4 years!!! >>

More Proof the skeptics are WINNING!!


And nobody cares anyway........get some real responsibilities in life and you stop worrying about stoopid stuff!!

No link, no credibility.

meh...........its all in that thread. With about 4 billion other links which decimate the makey-uppey crap that comes from the climate science industry. This West Antarctic ice sheet crap is the latest spin to respond to the epic losing.

Anybody can go GOOGLE Antarctic Ice Sheet growing and find scores of links!!! Im too tired.

The curious should check it out.........its laughable.

Google

Anyway.........Ive been asking for a link around here for years in response to the question, "Where is the science mattering?"

Havent gotten one link!!! From anybody!!




[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/laughing%20man%203.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[flacaltenn]

If you feel the request for a link to data supporting your hypothesis is an insult, you are obviously a fraud.

No Roxie -- YOU have a memory problem. We've discussed the vulcanism going on below the West Antarctic -- YOU convieniently PURGE all confounding truths from your system..

We don't need to link to stuff that's already been discussed here and SHOULD be known by anyone GRIEVING about the stability of the WAIShelf..

Now I have quoted statements from the authors of the articles, within the articles, that directly contradict what you are claiming. What is your agenda that you should be trying to bend what the arcticles written by these scientists say?

When were those articles written? Because since 2014 --- this is "breaking science" and they are hot on the trail of the "warm water" sources under those coastal glaciers..

Did those articles specify that volcanic activity had been RULED OUT !!!!

 

[Crick]

Is volcanic activity contributing to the melting of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet?
Asked by Morag

Wow, this is an interesting question! You can learn all about subglacial volcanoes here. The West Antarctic Ice Sheet has many subglacial lakes beneath it; geothermal heating is thought to contribute to the melting of the base of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet. However, the extent of this, and the rate, is very poorly known and currently not included in glaciological numerical models. Actual volcanoes may, during eruptions, melt quite large portions of the ice sheet around them. In Iceland, volcanic eruptions beneath the ice sheet regularly cause catastrophic floods, called jokulhlaups. Subglacial volcanoes are therefore probably contributing at least a little to Antarctic ice sheet melt; the extent to which this is happening is probably reasonably stable over longer timescales.

Is volcanic activity contributing to the melting of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet? - AntarcticGlaciers.org

Thus very unlikely to be responsible for the destabilisation of the WAIS.

 

[Crick]

From Hidden Volcanoes Melt Antarctic Glaciers from Below

The minimum average heat flow beneath Thwaites Glacier is 114 milliwatts per square meter (or per about 10 square feet) with some areas giving off 200 milliwatts per square meter or more, the researchers report today (June 9) in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. (A milliwatt is one-thousandth of a watt.) In comparison, Schroeder said, the average heat flow of the rest of the continents is 65 milliwatts per square meter.

Thwaites Glacier - 5,490 sq km
West Antarctic Ice Sheet - 1,970,000 sq km

Thwaites makes up slightly more than 1/360th of the WAIS.

and, from Earth's internal heat budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Global internal heat flow
Estimates of the total heat flow from Earth’s interior to surface span a range of 43 to 49 terawatt (TW), or 1012 watt.[8] The closest estimate is 47 TW,[1] an average crust heat flow of 91.6 mW/m2, and is based on more than 38,000 measurements. The respective mean heat flows of continental and oceanic crust are 70.9 and 105.4 mW/m2.[1]

This does not make a case for volcanism being a major player in the destabilization of the WAIS.

 

[skookerasbil]

February 2016 Sea Surface Temperature (SST) Anomaly Update

Looks like some impressive warming there.

At 40 below zero this means exactly shit!

LAUGH.................MY................BALLS...................OFF


[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/Canadian-Icebreaker-Working-to-Free-Stuck-Cargo-Ship1.jpg.html][/URL]


When they stop building ice breakers s0ns..........then come talk to us about this!!!

USCG: Icebreaker Project

 

[Renae]

You are fucking stupid. No one is predicting doom. What is being predicted is a more difficult time in the future due to stupid asses like you ignoring reality. If you question the science, then present counter arguements based on science. As far as preventing the consequences from the 400 ppm+ CO2 already in the atmosphere, not going to happen. What we can prevent, provided the consequences of the 400 ppm+ in the Arctic does not prevent it, is the consequences of 500+ ppm.

So now we cannot prevent the damage being done from 400 out of 1,000,000 parts per of CO2.

Moving them goal posts.

You want science yet you're deep in "arguements" of shoddy pseudoscience. The Antarctic isn't melting because of a few hundred CO2 particles extra that may or may not entirely be from man. Climate, is cyclical, it changes. It has been warmer, it has been colder. That's the science. The greatest fraud in history has been to convince people they are changing the climate, that more Government is the answer and that terrible things will happen if we "DON'T ACT NOW!"

 

[flacaltenn]

From Hidden Volcanoes Melt Antarctic Glaciers from Below

The minimum average heat flow beneath Thwaites Glacier is 114 milliwatts per square meter (or per about 10 square feet) with some areas giving off 200 milliwatts per square meter or more, the researchers report today (June 9) in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. (A milliwatt is one-thousandth of a watt.) In comparison, Schroeder said, the average heat flow of the rest of the continents is 65 milliwatts per square meter.

Thwaites Glacier - 5,490 sq km
West Antarctic Ice Sheet - 1,970,000 sq km

Thwaites makes up slightly more than 1/360th of the WAIS.

and, from Earth's internal heat budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Global internal heat flow
Estimates of the total heat flow from Earth’s interior to surface span a range of 43 to 49 terawatt (TW), or 1012 watt.[8] The closest estimate is 47 TW,[1] an average crust heat flow of 91.6 mW/m2, and is based on more than 38,000 measurements. The respective mean heat flows of continental and oceanic crust are 70.9 and 105.4 mW/m2.[1]

This does not make a case for volcanism being a major player in the destabilization of the WAIS.

You're an idiot when you try to use info you don't really understand. 120 or 200 mW/m2 may SOUND like a small number -- but SO IS the equivalent of a 0.25degC rise in seawater intrusion (the poor excuse to link this damage to GW).. And the heat flow in the REST of the continents has little bearing on this SPECIFIC patch of very frozen ground. It only has to produce water at greater than about 20 degF (because of pressure) to make large holes/channels in the base of the ice.

THEY DON'T KNOW the actual geo hot spots. HAVE NOT MEASURED THEM at their source. Have NO Fuccing idea how often they are active. The OUTFLOW of heated water under the glacier HAS been noticed. And because it's flowing TOWARDS the sea --- it can not possibly be "warm water upwells" from the ocean.

To geo survey that much land with so few resources is NOT gonna happen in this decade. But here's my guess.
They will luck out -- find a hot springs source,.. Drill and frack one of those "al gore -- 3million degree" geothermal mines and be able to power a Small Marriot and a Starbucks for the scientists and tourists on the WAIS..

These yahoos are drilling so many holes in 100,000 yr old ice that THEY are probably contributing to the "de-footing" of these glaciers..

 

[flacaltenn]

Maybe O'Rocks will get his diploma and sign on for a 4 yr tour of duty on the Thwaites.. He'll have MORE time to post on USMB and we'll enjoy getting the daily ice and temp report from him.. God Speed O'Rocks. Blast some ice for us,.....

 

[flacaltenn]

Please read ALL of this -- or remain hopelessly behind and stupid.. Your choice. It's always nice to know EXACTLY what problem you R fixing before the 10 foot floods arrive..

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Scientists Reveal New Map of Antarctica’s Mysterious Volcanic ‘hot zones’ - Principia Scientific Intl

There is a mysterious line of volcanoes that have formed in certain areas of Antarctica – and could hold the key to the area’s future.

For years, researchers have been trying to look below the ice sheets to find out why, but due to extreme cold their technology has not been able to gather any answers.

Now with the assistance of ruggedized seismometers, geologists have been able to get the first look at the mantle below the ice, revealing areas of ‘hot rock’.


The recordings from the instrument were of earthquakes from January 2010 to January 2012, which were used to create maps of seismic velocities below the first valley.

This was the first time researchers had technology that was tough enough to withstand Antarctica’s harsh weather and the first time humans eyes have seen below this region.

A giant blob of super heated rock about 60 miles beneath Mount Sidley was seen on the map.

This is the last chain of volcanic mountains in Marie Byrd Land at one end of the transect.

What surprised researchers the most was the hot rock beneath Bentley Subglacial Trench, a deep basin at the other end of the transect.

This means the rift system just recently became active.

Mount Sidley, the highest volcano in Antarctica, sits directly above a hot region in the mantle, Lloyd said.

Mount Sidley is the southernmost mountain in a volcanic mountain range in Marie Byrd Land, a mountainous region dotted with volcanoes near the coast of West Antarctica.

‘A line of volcanoes hints there might be a hidden mantle plume, like a blowtorch, beneath the plate,’said Doug Wiens, PhD, professor of earth and planetary sciences and a co-author on the paper.

 

[flacaltenn]

Because you are so damn clueless after investing HUNDREDS of hour in this forum. First , you spout off that was NO EVIDENCE of volcanic at activity at the WAIS.

No, I said nothing like that. Try responding what I wrote, instead of what you wish I'd written.

When a poster starts blatantly lying like that to me --- I shut you off. You DID try to tell Whirled Publishing that there was evidence of volcanic activity under the WAIS..

And here is the link to your attempt to deflect..

Breaking- West Antarctic ice sheetin peril

No, there's no evidence for that. There's been a mild increase in surface vulcanism, but that has a slight cooling effect due to volcanic aerosols.

If undersea volcanoes were heating the oceans and melting ice, the local hotspots in the ocean would be clearly visible. They're not, hence undersea volcanoes aren't doing anything special. It would take something like a thousand-fold increase in undersea volcanoes to make the kind of heat you're postulating, and there's zero evidence of such a thing.

No aerosols involved at all you nutbag.. And hotspots off the the coast of the WAIS are HARD to survey at depth. So there's little data. ALSO little data for the juvenile explanation of "deep water well-ups" that are SOLELY due to CO2 in the atmos..

Reply all you want to this thread. You've lost credibility by trying to pile lie upon lie. YOU DID attempt to backhand and dismiss a poster who may know MORE than you about the recent science at the WAIS.... So I'll proceed as THO you are on ignore..