But I thought European gun control countries had no crime...

[2aguy]

It is not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who sees no link between one country having tens times the guns of another country - and also having ten times the rate of death by gunshot wound.

Until such time as you can accept and address that point, you aren't at the starting line for rational discourse.

Typical lefty...the numbers dispute your argument...so you insult me...

 

[2aguy]

The three school shootings in Finland...

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  [*]Jokela school shooting
  The Jokela school massacre was a school shooting that occurred on November 7, 2007 ... at the Raumanmeri school in Rauma , when a 14-year-old ...
  31 KB (4,406 words) - 02:34, 7 August 2014
  [*]Kauhajoki school shooting (section Shooting)
  "The Kauhajoki school shooting occurred on September 23, 2008, at Seinäjoki ...the country's history, in Rauma in 1989, leaving two people dead ...
  30 KB (4,373 words) - 02:34, 7 August 2014
  [*]Raumanmeri school shooting
  The Raumanmeri school shooting was a school shooting that occurred on January 24, 1989, at the Raumanmeri secondary school in Rauma , ...
  2 KB (283 words) - 00:14, 23 May 2013

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• 
  Keep in mind...one of the school shootings seems to have been a copy cat...and two of the shooters were nuts...and the 14 year old stole his gun from his father while the other two passed all the levels of gun control laws in Finland...2 of the guns were .22 caliber pistols...

 

[Saigon]

Billc -

I really have 0 interest in your dodging and avoidance tactics.

It is not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who sees no link between one country having tens times the guns of another country - and also having ten times the rate of death by gunshot wound.

When you are willing to address this issue, then by all means lets discuss it. If not, I see no point in continuing.

 

[2aguy]

We also have a border with Mexico...you do not...we have drug cartels from mexico driving a lot of inner city gun violence...you do not...it is far more complicated than just having access to guns...since we have over 310 million people and only 10-12,000 gun murders a year and a lot more times where guns are used to stop crime...

If you want to discuss the actual problem then fine...if you just want to blame guns than you are the fool...Finlands gun problems are the same as ours...criminal gangs...we have a lot more criminal gangs in our inner cities than you do...cancel out gun violence committed by these gangs and our level of violence goes way down...since law abiding citizens don't commit gun crimes...no matter how many guns we have...

 

[August West]

We also have a border with Mexico...you do not...we have drug cartels from mexico driving a lot of inner city gun violence...you do not...it is far more complicated than just having access to guns...since we have over 310 million people and only 10-12,000 gun murders a year and a lot more times where guns are used to stop crime...

If you want to discuss the actual problem then fine...if you just want to blame guns than you are the fool...Finlands gun problems are the same as ours...criminal gangs...we have a lot more criminal gangs in our inner cities than you do...cancel out gun violence committed by these gangs and our level of violence goes way down...since law abiding citizens don't commit gun crimes...no matter how many guns we have...

Bill.....every person who is behind bars was once a "law abiding citizen".

 

[2aguy]

Bill.....every person who is behind bars was once a "law abiding citizen".

But it is those people who are using the guns to kill people...and there are a lot more of our 310 million people who own and carry guns every day who aren't killing people or committing crimes...and those people get out of jail and commit crimes and kill again...

 

[2aguy]

On gangs and gun crimes...

Gun Violence National Institute of Justice

Gangs and Gun-Related Homicide
Gun-related homicide is most prevalent among gangs and during the commission of felony crimes. In 1980, the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during arguments was about the same as from gang involvement (about 70 percent), but by 1993, nearly all gang-related homicides involved guns (95 percent), whereas the percentage of gun homicides related to arguments remained relatively constant. The percentage of gang-related homicides caused by guns fell slightly to 92 percent in 2008, but the percentage of homicides caused by firearms during the commission of a felony rose from about 60 percent to about 74 percent from 1980 to 2005.[5]

Show us how to deal with criminal drug gangs and we will reduce our gun murder rate...

 

[2aguy]

The real problem with guns in the United States...gangs...

80 percent of crime is committed by gangs--must be the gun lobby s fault - St. Louis gun rights Examiner.com

 

[Meathead]

Bill.....every person who is behind bars was once a "law abiding citizen".

It is exceedingly rare to witness such an obtuse "point".

 

[Luddly Neddite]

have a lobbying group that helps "thugs" acquire guns.

The democrat party is not a lobbying group...and the ACLU...well yeah...you're right there...

You said you thought Europe has no crime, now you say the ACLU supplies guns to thugs -

Is there anything you've gotten right?

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say such patently stupid crap?

 

[2aguy]

How do we lower our gun crime rate...lower than Finland's ...we ban gangs...not guns...

What Percentage Of American Murders Are Gang Related Extrano s Alley a gun blog

Doing some data mining with 2010 numbers, and extrapolating from the number of murders solved by arrest to all known murders, it appears that approximately 78 percent, slightly more than three out of every four murders, are gang related.

For 2010, the FBI reported 14,478 murders and non-negligent homicides. Of those, approximately 11,290 were in some way gang related.

And, for those of a thoughtful turn of mind, those numbers mean that were it not for gang activity, the United States homicide rate would be in the 1 per 100,000 range.

 

[AceRothstein]

Billc -

Firstly, I have never heard anyone claim that there is no crime in Europe, and thus far you have not presented a link of anyone claiming that.

Secondly, most EU countries have a per capita death by gunshot wound rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US, because of the lower levels of gun ownership and safety-based gun laws. This does not mean no crime occurs - it means that crime occurs largely without guns, and thus without any particular mortal danger to ordinary people.

These are plain, simple facts that you can check yourself.

No they have a lower per capita death rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US because they have between 1/4 and 1/10 of the population if the US.

You should look into what per capita means.

 

[Politico]

No they have a lower per capita death rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US because they have between 1/4 and 1/10 of the population if the US.

Jesus wept....do you seriously not understand what the words PER CAPITA mean?

Honestly, the level of literacy on this board is sometimes absolutely terrifying.

Seeing as it is well known that overall less people affects per capita numbers, yeah your literacy certainly is terrifying.

 

[westwall]

They have a bigger crime problem than we do. Their street patrol police do not even have guns. It is a very bad situation over there.

Police in Europe are better armed than police in the US for the most part. Standard equipment for the vast majority are submachine guns. The British Bobbies can choose to not be armed but they are not prevented from being armed. Plus the Brits have special "armed police" units with heavy weaponry not unlike our SWAT teams.

 

[westwall]

Billc -

Firstly, I have never heard anyone claim that there is no crime in Europe, and thus far you have not presented a link of anyone claiming that.

Secondly, most EU countries have a per capita death by gunshot wound rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US, because of the lower levels of gun ownership and safety-based gun laws. This does not mean no crime occurs - it means that crime occurs largely without guns, and thus without any particular mortal danger to ordinary people.

These are plain, simple facts that you can check yourself.

Actually the primary reason for the lower homicide rate is the makeup of the countries population. Here in the US we have a large proportion of black and Hispanic gangs that are responsible for 70% of the homicides in this country. When you compare the white crime rate with the predominantly white populations of Europe, the crime rates are nearly the same.

This is not a race issue, it is a cultural issue.

 

[JoeB131]

Were they with the Pope??! I would believe that one! That guy appears to be able to get away with anything! Belgium courts cannot even haul him in on two rape charges from young women in Argentina! Europeans believe he is a paedophile. Must be quite convenient to have the security and cover of the Vatican at your fingertips!

Wow, Jerry, you seem to have this real hangup about the Catholics.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Actually the primary reason for the lower homicide rate is the makeup of the countries population. Here in the US we have a large proportion of black and Hispanic gangs that are responsible for 70% of the homicides in this country. When you compare the white crime rate with the predominantly white populations of Europe, the crime rates are nearly the same.

This is not a race issue, it is a cultural issue.

Racial Makeup of the United Kingdom.

• 87.1% White
• 7.0% Asian
• 3.0% Black
• 2.0% Mixed
• 0.9% Other[3][

Nope. they've got plenty of minorities.

What they don't have are guns.

Guns in the United Kingdom Firearms gun law and gun control

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in the United Kingdom is 6.71 firearms per 100 people

Total Homicides - 2011/12: 653
Gun Homicides - 2011: 38

Now, let's compare the US.

Race/Ethnicity (2013)
By race:[159]
White	77.7%
African American	13.2%
Asian	5.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native	1.2%
Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander	0.2%
Multiracial (2 or more)	2.4%
By ethnicity:[159]
Hispanic/Latino (of any race)	17.1%
Non-Hispanic/Latino (of any race)	82.9%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Hmmm.. Not that big a difference.

But-

The estimated rate of private gun ownership (both licit and illicit) in the United States is 101.05231 firearms per 100 people

Total Homicides - 2012: 14,827
Gun Homicides - 2012: 8,896

Sorry, man, it ain't the Darkies, it's the guns.

 

[Saigon]

I'm constantly amazed that Americans consider race to be the issue in comparing US - EU gun crime.

I think it's a fair assumption that no one who has ever set foot in Rotterdam, Manchester, Birmingham, Berlin or Paris would leave with the impression that there aren't many coloured people there. Really....that is a terribly silly line of reasoning.

 

[Toro]

Billc -

Firstly, I have never heard anyone claim that there is no crime in Europe, and thus far you have not presented a link of anyone claiming that.

Secondly, most EU countries have a per capita death by gunshot wound rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US, because of the lower levels of gun ownership and safety-based gun laws. This does not mean no crime occurs - it means that crime occurs largely without guns, and thus without any particular mortal danger to ordinary people.

These are plain, simple facts that you can check yourself.

Actually the primary reason for the lower homicide rate is the makeup of the countries population. Here in the US we have a large proportion of black and Hispanic gangs that are responsible for 70% of the homicides in this country. When you compare the white crime rate with the predominantly white populations of Europe, the crime rates are nearly the same.

This is not a race issue, it is a cultural issue.

I've done the statistics on this.

Idaho is 93% white. Canada is 77% white. Canada has strict gun laws. Idaho does not. Over the past 15 years, the murder rate is roughly 50% higher on average in lily-white, gun-toting Idaho than it is in Canada. And Idaho has 1/20th the population of Canada.

 

[2aguy]

I think it's a fair assumption that no one who has ever set foot in Rotterdam, Manchester, Birmingham, Berlin or Paris would leave with the impression that there aren't many coloured people there.

As Denmark is showing, the immigrant community is where a lot of their gun crime is happening...in the U.S. we have inner cities where minorities are mainly concentrated in cities controlled by one political party, the democrats...and their policies have created generations of teenagers raising teenagers on welfare without adults rolemodeling responsible behavior...and the only real role models they have are teenage mothers and gang banger fathers...that is the root of our gun problem in the United States...