But I thought European gun control countries had no crime...

[2aguy]

Sorry, it is democrat policies that have made the inner cities war zones between drug gangs...the NRA is a civil rights organization that preserves one of the most assaulted freedoms in this country...

 

[Saigon]

No they have a lower per capita death rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US because they have between 1/4 and 1/10 of the population if the US.

Jesus wept....do you seriously not understand what the words PER CAPITA mean?

Honestly, the level of literacy on this board is sometimes absolutely terrifying.

 

[Saigon]

Hmmm...Finland has the 4th highest rate of gun ownership in Europe...and a very low crime rate....

Actually we have one of the highest homicide rates in Europe, genius. We are one of very few EU countries that have suffered school shootings in recent years, and have been very slow to learn the lessons from those.

 

[2aguy]

Looked up Finnish school shootings...3...in your history...tragic...but hardly a crime wave...and interesting for the gun grabbers here in the states...in the two where the gun was named...it was a .22 caliber pistol...and again...one gun was stolen and the other guy passed all the required safety checks to get into a shooting club...

 

[Toro]

Billc -

Firstly, I have never heard anyone claim that there is no crime in Europe, and thus far you have not presented a link of anyone claiming that.

Secondly, most EU countries have a per capita death by gunshot wound rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US, because of the lower levels of gun ownership and safety-based gun laws. This does not mean no crime occurs - it means that crime occurs largely without guns, and thus without any particular mortal danger to ordinary people.

These are plain, simple facts that you can check yourself.

No they have a lower per capita death rate of between 1/4 and 1/10 of that in the US because they have between 1/4 and 1/10 of the population if the US.

Ahahahahahahaha!

Hilarious.

 

[Saigon]

Looked up Finnish school shootings...3...in your history...tragic...but hardly a crime wave...and interesting for the gun grabbers here in the states...in the two where the gun was named...it was a .22 caliber pistol...and again...one gun was stolen and the other guy passed all the required safety checks to get into a shooting club...

In a country of 5 million people, having 2 major school shootings in the past five years is something of a crime wave. Particularly as both were committed by teenage white males from middle class homes. It raises questions.

But actually the homicide problem here tends to be this - a middle age man comes home from a party drunk, grabs a hunting rifle and shoots his wife. That happens often, and highlights problems with both alcohol abuse and the presence of firearms.

 

[2aguy]

But actually the homicide problem here tends to be this - a middle age man comes home from a party drunk, grabs a hunting rifle and shoots his wife. That happens often, and highlights problems with both alcohol abuse and the presence of firearms.

And so you are saying that the majority of gun crimes consist of domestic killings...but the same man couldn't come home and murder his wife with a knife, or a club? As suicide shows...it is the intent and not the tool...that is why while we have more guns used in suicide here in the states...Japan still has twice the suicide rate we have even though they have absolute gun control...they just use different tools to commit suicide...

And they have absolute gun control in China...and they have had several knife attacks in schools...and other places...

 

[Geaux4it]

Hmmm...Finland has the 4th highest rate of gun ownership in Europe...and a very low crime rate....

Actually we have one of the highest homicide rates in Europe, genius. We are one of very few EU countries that have suffered school shootings in recent years, and have been very slow to learn the lessons from those.

Acceptable risk to live in America

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

Looking at wikipedia...for Finland and crime...

Manslaughter, murder, homicide[edit]
Homicides can be classified into four main types. Half of crimes involve men of marginalized groups (unemployed, undereducated,drug and alcohol problems) in heavy drinking situations. Thirty-five percent of homicides are committed by family members, and ten percent of homicides are classified as youth violence.[4]

Women constitute 10 percent of offenders and 25 percent of victims. The vast majority of female offenders target a husband or other family member. Twenty-three percent of homicide victims of male offenders were strangers. Fewer than 20 percent of these crimes are committed outdoors. Sixty percent of male and 30 percent of the female homicide offenders have been arrested for drunken driving at least once.[citation needed]

Firearms are used in 14 percent of the cases. Street shootings and gang violence are extremely rare. A few cases involvingmotorcycle gangs have occurred in recent years, attracting national attention.

Seems like, of the murder you have, firearms are not the most common tool...and if you banned them...something tells me those people killed would still be killed...

 

[zeke]

Sorry, it is democrat policies that have made the inner cities war zones between drug gangs...the NRA is a civil rights organization that preserves one of the most assaulted freedoms in this country...

What a fucking tool you are dude. The NRA is the marketing arm for ALL the gun manufactures in the USA. Period.

Speaking of all those "assaulted freedoms" you must be speaking about guns. Seeing as how you are OBSESSED with guns.

How many assaults did you stop last night? And how many of your guns were taken away in the past few days?

If you say "NONE" to either one, then I say WTF Billo? Where was that assault on your freedom? Or your safety?
You a one trick pony dude. Grow the fuck up.

 

[2aguy]

And how many of your guns were taken away in the past few days?

You don't follow the issue that closely do you...

Seeing as how you are OBSESSED with guns.

Guns, no. Freedom, yes...and since the 2nd amendment is constantly under attack it needs protecting...

 

[Geaux4it]

To bad she didn't blow his head off.

-Geaux

Another would be burglar stopped by gun wielding homeowner

Lawton_For the second time in just one week a shooting is ruled justified in connection with an attempted burglary. This time it happened in Lawton's Old Town North Addition in the 500 block of Bell. The homeowner says he was asleep in the middle of the afternoon when he heard someone trying to break in. He says his first reaction was to grab his gun to stop the would be burglar in his tracks.

This is a very separate case from Tuesday's incident where the burglar was killed. This would be burglar - who also happened to be a 17 year old boy - was not hit by gunfire. He got lucky because he very well could have been killed - and the law would have allowed it.

Another would be burglar stopped by gun wielding homeowner - KSWO Lawton OK- Wichita Falls TX News Weather Sports. ABC 24 7 Telemundo -

 

[Saigon]

Acceptable risk to live in America

-Geaux

So you consider a death by gunshot wound rate TEN TIMES that of other countries to be acceptable?

You're a fool.

 

[2aguy]

The NRA is the marketing arm for ALL the gun manufactures in the USA. Period.

The NRA is one of a few organizations fighting back against people trying to remove the 2nd amendment from our society...the other one would be the Second Amendment Foundation...do you know how many private and public organizations lobby against the 2nd Amendment...how many powerful individuals fight to end that right...?

 

[Saigon]

Looking at wikipedia...for Finland and crime...

Seems like, of the murder you have, firearms are not the most common tool...and if you banned them...something tells me those people killed would still be killed...

Some would be - some would not.

What we know for an absolute fact is that murder will always exist - it is the number of murders that rises or falls dependent largely (but not solely) on the availability of a lethal weapon.

I would not support a ban on guns, by the way. What I support is a sensible licensing scheme, which I believe will be introduced soon here.

 

[Geaux4it]

Acceptable risk to live in America

-Geaux

So you consider a death by gunshot wound rate TEN TIMES that of other countries to be acceptable?

You're a fool.

No, I'm a real American,

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

So you consider a death by gunshot wound rate TEN TIMES that of other countries to be acceptable?

You're a fool.

I would say you are a moron but I thought we were having a rational discussion...it is not surprising that as a gun grabber you are the first one to name call and use insults...

there are 10-12,000 gun murders in the United States by criminals who ignore all of our gun laws...

There are 2.5 million times a year where law abiding citizens use guns to save lives and stop violent crime...because they have guns...

Hmmm...you run the numbers...if you can...and tell me which number is bigger...you can take your shoes off if it helps you count...

 

[Geaux4it]

Looking at wikipedia...for Finland and crime...

Seems like, of the murder you have, firearms are not the most common tool...and if you banned them...something tells me those people killed would still be killed...

Some would be - some would not.

What we know for an absolute fact is that murder will always exist - it is the number of murders that rises or falls dependent largely (but not solely) on the availability of a lethal weapon.

I would not support a ban on guns, by the way. What I support is a sensible licensing scheme, which I believe will be introduced soon here.

No it wont

Next?

-Geaux

 

[2aguy]

Well, you have had 3 school shootings...which ones would your sensible licensing schemes have stopped, keeping in mind the one shooter passed all the checks to belong to one of your gun clubs and the other kid stole the gun from his father...who must have passed all of your gun checks...the other incident I didn't look deep enough to find which laws were broken or ignored...

 

[Saigon]

Billc -

It is not possible to have a rational discussion with someone who sees no link between one country having tens times the guns of another country - and also having ten times the rate of death by gunshot wound.

Until such time as you can accept and address that point, you aren't at the starting line for rational discourse.