Buying a Lemon--Vaccine Defenders--Any Sales/Marketing Folks Out There?

[gipper]

No it's not. It's actually from the same study you linked. It's sound public health information included to remind people like you that this pandemic isn't a hoax. And that vaccines do work.

I bet you think Fauci tells the truth. Am I right? Well am I?

 

[SweetSue92]

Just like with any other drug. The list of "possible side effects" they read during the drug ads on the TV is enough to keep one from wanting to try any of them.

This is the list of possible side effects from my twice daily inhaler...

• fungal infection in your mouth or throat (thrush). Rinse your mouth with water without swallowing after using ADVAIR DISKUS to help reduce your chance of getting thrush.
• pneumonia.People with COPD have a higher chance of getting pneumonia. ADVAIR DISKUS may increase the chance of getting pneumonia. Call your healthcare provider if you notice any of the following symptoms:
  • increase in mucus (sputum) production
  • change in mucus color
  • fever
  • chills
  • increased cough
  • increased breathing problems
• weakened immune system and increased chance of getting infections (immunosuppression)
• reduced adrenal function (adrenal insufficiency).Adrenal insufficiency is a condition where the adrenal glands do not make enough steroid hormones. This can happen when you stop taking oral corticosteroid medicines (such as prednisone) and start taking a medicine containing an inhaled steroid (such as ADVAIR DISKUS). During this transition period, when your body is under stress such as from fever, trauma (such as a car accident), infection, surgery, or worse COPD symptoms, adrenal insufficiency can get worse and may cause death. Symptoms of adrenal insufficiency include:
  • feeling tired
  • lack of energy
  • weakness
  • nausea and vomiting
  • low blood pressure (hypotension)
• sudden breathing problems immediately after inhaling your medicine. If you have sudden breathing problems immediately after inhaling your medicine, stop using ADVAIR DISKUS and call your healthcare provider right away.
• serious allergic reactions.Call your healthcare provider or get emergency medical care if you get any of the following symptoms of a serious allergic reaction:
  • rash
  • hives
  • swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue
  • breathing problems
• effects on heart
  • increased blood pressure
  • a fast or irregular heartbeat
  • chest pain
• effects on nervous system
  • tremor
  • nervousness
• bone thinning or weakness (osteoporosis)
• slowed growth in children. A child's growth should be checked regularly by the healthcare provider while using ADVAIR DISKUS.
• eye problems including glaucoma, increased pressure in your eye, cataracts, or other changes in vision. You should have regular eye exams while using ADVAIR DISKUS.
• changes in laboratory blood levels (sugar, potassium, certain types of white blood cells)

Yes. But with the vaccines, they are not even reading these. They are attempting to hide them or worse...they don't even know.

Harrowing, really.

 

[SweetSue92]

No it's not. It's actually from the same study you linked. It's sound public health information included to remind people like you that this pandemic isn't a hoax. And that vaccines do work.

It's propaganda to cover for the facts and data, and that's all it is. When you have fully one-quarter of the fully vaccinated DYING, there is nothing else you need to say. We don't need "explainers". There it is.

DYING.

Not just getting sick or being hospitalized. DYING

 

[colfax_m]

Yes, cut off in Sept. Isn't that convenient? Just before Delta and the vaccines wore off.

Hey "doc" won't you tell us about "grad school"?

Ends October 2. The more recent data is no different. See the percentage of breakthrough cases? It's not going up. Flat since August.

You provided a slide deck with fabulous data. It seems you haven't absorbed it very well.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

If you are claiming the vaxxed aren’t dying, you’re mistaken.

Post a legitimate study that claims such and we have something to talk about.
So far, there has no direct evidence linking the vaccine to any death.
But hey, you're a reasonable poster. Show me something.

 

[SweetSue92]

Ends October 2. The more recent data is no different. See the percentage of breakthrough cases? It's not going up. Flat since August.

You provided a slide deck with fabulous data. It seems you haven't absorbed it very well.

View attachment 569332

Yes, and cases are exploding here among children, NONE of whom can be "fully vaccinated" in this time frame. So it will be flat for a while. That does not mean that they're not exploding among adults who have been fully vaccinated. We're seeing it here on the ground.

 

[Burgermeister]

This thread is evidence of the OP's observation. In spite of the seriousness of the decision, no amount of facts will sway a vax fanatic, until I suppose the authorities change the instructions to the obedient masses. Vax fanatics don't just cherry pick facts. They deny facts.

 

[colfax_m]

Yes, and cases are exploding here among children, NONE of whom can be "fully vaccinated" in this time frame. So it will be flat for a while. That does not mean that they're not exploding among adults who have been fully vaccinated. We're seeing it here on the ground.

You could conceivably make a case that this would have an effect on cases. The magnitude of this effect is debatable. But since hospitalizations and deaths aren't budging either, and since we all know that children don't really get hospitalized or die from COVID, the data is completely unaffected by this and my point stands. You're coming up with excuses here. Not critical analysis of the data.

What is your experience "on the ground"?

 

[SweetSue92]

Since hospitalizations and deaths aren't budging either, and since we all know that children don't really get hospitalized or die from COVID, the data is completely unaffected by this and my point stands. You're coming up with excuses here. Not critical analysis of the data.

What is your experience "on the ground"?

Michigan, many of the fully vaccinated people I know getting covid, and getting sick. Not just "testing positive". But sick. I'm a teacher so I know MANY fully vaccinated people.

So for people who are not vaccine crazies, this is having an effect. Lots of normal, thinking people wondering about these vaccines---after they had two shots and a bad case of covid....

 

[SweetSue92]

You could conceivably make a case that this would have an effect on cases. The magnitude of this effect is debatable. But since hospitalizations and deaths aren't budging either, and since we all know that children don't really get hospitalized or die from COVID, the data is completely unaffected by this and my point stands. You're coming up with excuses here. Not critical analysis of the data.

What is your experience "on the ground"?

Oh, and one who had the BOOSTER and still got sick with covid. True story. I do not lie here.

 

[SweetSue92]

This thread is evidence of the OP's observation. In spite of the seriousness of the decision, no amount of facts will sway a vax fanatic, until I suppose the authorities change the instructions to the obedient masses. Vax fanatics don't just cherry pick facts. They deny facts.

Right. I have actual data from the State of Michigan, with links, and these folks are arguing. Okay.

 

[colfax_m]

Michigan, many of the fully vaccinated people I know getting covid, and getting sick. Not just "testing positive". But sick. I'm a teacher so I know MANY fully vaccinated people.

So for people who are not vaccine crazies, this is having an effect. Lots of normal, thinking people wondering about these vaccines---after they had two shots and a bad case of covid....

Ah, so your evidence is personal. You aren't even in healthcare.

What a dangerous way to come to conclusions. You are opening yourself to so much bias here. Confirmation bias. Selection bias. Reporting bias.

The data shows that those without vaccines are FAR more likely to be hospitalized and FAR more likely to die. The data is 100% clear. So if you want to know why some people strongly advocate that, it's because it doesn't have to be this way.

 

[colfax_m]

Right. I have actual data from the State of Michigan, with links, and these folks are arguing. Okay.

As I've pointed out, the data proves the efficacy of vaccination.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Right. I have actual data from the State of Michigan, with links, and these folks are arguing. Okay.

No, you are cherry picking your data. We are just pointing that out. If you don't want to get the vaccine, fine. That is your right. Ignorant, Irresponsible, Selfish, and Ill-informed. But, your right.
Here's another table from your study you might want to keep in mind. I don't expect to change your mind because it's already made up (It was long ago so don't bother with any of your "science" or "data" justifications).
All you need to look at it the top row. The numbers say, sooner or later, your luck is bound to run out.

 

[SweetSue92]

Ah, so your evidence is personal. You aren't even in healthcare.

What a dangerous way to come to conclusions. You are opening yourself to so much bias here. Confirmation bias. Selection bias. Reporting bias.

The data shows that those without vaccines are FAR more likely to be hospitalized and FAR more likely to die. The data is 100% clear. So if you want to know why some people strongly advocate that, it's because it doesn't have to be this way.

Truth:

The vaccines do not prevent or reduce transmission. The vaccines do not prevent you from getting covid. We are down to this: they MAY keep you from getting a severe case or dying. But that effect is waning over time.

They come with potential hefty side effects and likely minor ones that may make you miss work.

So it is perfectly reasonable to decimate mandates and let every person make a reasonable decision for themselves, especially given that we know NO long term effects.

I invite anyone to find anything unreasonable in what I said.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, you are cherry picking your data. We are just pointing that out. If you don't want to get the vaccine, fine. That is your right. Ignorant, Irresponsible, Selfish, and Ill-informed. But, your right.
Here's another table from your study you might want to keep in mind. I don't expect to change your mind because it's already made up (It was long ago so don't bother with any of your "science" or "data" justifications).
All you need to look at it the top row. The numbers say, sooner or later, your luck is bound to run out.
View attachment 569338

Not pertinent. Going back to January. Disingenuous, that's how they massage the data.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, you are cherry picking your data. We are just pointing that out. If you don't want to get the vaccine, fine. That is your right. Ignorant, Irresponsible, Selfish, and Ill-informed. But, your right.
Here's another table from your study you might want to keep in mind. I don't expect to change your mind because it's already made up (It was long ago so don't bother with any of your "science" or "data" justifications).
All you need to look at it the top row. The numbers say, sooner or later, your luck is bound to run out.
View attachment 569338

Hey Jack call me more names. That will do it.

 

[SweetSue92]

No, you are cherry picking your data. We are just pointing that out. If you don't want to get the vaccine, fine. That is your right. Ignorant, Irresponsible, Selfish, and Ill-informed. But, your right.
Here's another table from your study you might want to keep in mind. I don't expect to change your mind because it's already made up (It was long ago so don't bother with any of your "science" or "data" justifications).
All you need to look at it the top row. The numbers say, sooner or later, your luck is bound to run out.
View attachment 569338

Yes, unless I have some cross-immunity...which is quite likely now that I have been through four waves, have no antibodies, teach 150 children a day and STILL have not caught it....I will get Covid. You are right.

I am prepared, for one thing.

Secondly, I prefer natural immunity to vaccines. I know that hurts your feelings and sensibilities. Why, though? Who cares?

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Hey Jack call me more names. That will do it.

I call you that because it is what it is. Your personal liberties end at the tip of your nose.
If you want to make that decision for yourself, fine. It's everyone else in your orbit that I care about.
Not you.

 

[JackOfNoTrades]

Not pertinent. Going back to January. Disingenuous, that's how they massage the data.

Vaccines were available for frontline workers starting in December, 2020. The data range is pertinent.
In fact, it makes it more pertinent since it is looking at the entire availability of the vaccine. Not just the
last couple months