Can Anti-Same Sex M Advocates Address These Facts?

[Father Time]

It shouldn't be about who raises the biggest fuss. I thought we were talking equality for all, not making some more equal then others?

Allowing same sex couples to marry is giving them equality.

No kidding...but then who else is gonna demand equality?

Does it matter? Giving gays marraige does not oblige us to give marraige to anything else.

 

[CurveLight]

Why? Because you say so?

You're talking about history, my viewpoint and your viewpoint of it have no bearing. It is simply a fact that marriage is historically a religious matter.

You are absolutely wrong. Marriage is historically a "POLITICAL" matter. A means of cementing political alliances and concentrating wealth and power. AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.

That is true but it kind of glosses over how it applied to all socioeconomic groups. Even today those bullshit traditions are carried on by fathers "giving" their daughters away.

 

[mudwhistle]

You make no sense. When did I ever say that only the people who raise the most hell deserve equality?

Today.....

No he never said that. Weren't you brazenly tossing out accusations about lying what others post? Lol. Read the post again.

I read it fuck face.

Slippery slope? That's nonsense. Same sex marriage is struggling to get enough public support as it is. What other form of marriage is even close to having enough support to ever be legalized?

I know you've latched onto his joint and don't wanna let go but that's too bad.

Why don't you butt out.

You're what I call a time waster.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

what it does is cause a slippery-slope condition where eventually anyone can marry anyone or anything.

Incorrect. Like all legal contracts, the ability to enter enter such a contract is a requisite. Your assertion was refuted in this thread in several forms.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.

and those things should be removed from marriage
marriage is a religious ceremony and the government should get out of it
if you want those laws, then get a civil union contract

Wow. Any subject you talk about shows you don't know much of anything. Marriage is not a religious ceremony dumbass. There are a lot of atheist couples who are a testament to that fact.

Marriage is a religious ceremony.

marriage is also a legal contract.

Marriage is also a socially recognized union between persons that, in most forms, implies sexual and emotional exclusiveness.

This is the unfortunate result of using the same word to refer to different things.

The subject of this law/debate is marriage as a legal contract.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Marriage is not a religious ceremony and it never has been endemic to any church.

In many societies, what we call marriage as a socially recognized union has had strong religious undertones. In Europe, this was especially true, as t5he Catholic Church was the onyl government in half a continent for a long time.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I've never understood these. There are maybe 5 on the list I can understand, like hospital visitation, but those have been taken care of and are easy to do, they truly aren't issues anymore. All the rest are issues that deal with mutual children, that situation is completely N/A. Take 18 for example. Why would they need a joint insurance plan? Joint insurance is for when your spouse stays home with your children and therefore cannot work.

Gay couples can adopt and/or get sperm/egg donation.

They need to decide whether or not they are gay. Gay people don't have children. Straight people do.

Fail. Neither of the statments above is correct.

Some gay people have children and not all straights have children, proving both of your claims false.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

They need to decide whether or not they are gay. Gay people don't have children. Straight people do.

Say.....wtf? Are you seriously making this claim or is it sarcasm?

Let me slightly tweak my comment. Gay COUPLES don't have children.

Lesbian couples can have children.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

So gays are better at marriage than straights? Lol.

Can they cure cancer too?

Give it time. Gays will soon learn that marriage sucks

Well Hollywood might be a bit different without them.

Show tunes and musicals might be different if not nonexistent.

The arts would be really different without them.

The ignorant man sees only stereotypes...

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Why? Because you say so?

You're talking about history, my viewpoint and your viewpoint of it have no bearing. It is simply a fact that marriage is historically a religious matter.

You are absolutely wrong. Marriage is historically a "POLITICAL" matter. A means of cementing political alliances and concentrating wealth and power. AND THAT IS THE TRUTH.

Historically, the Church was inseparable form the State.

It never went well, so the Founding Fathers decided we should do things differently.

 

[mudwhistle]

Allowing same sex couples to marry is giving them equality.

No kidding...but then who else is gonna demand equality?

According to you only the people that raise the most hell deserve equality.

Famous line during the civil rights movement, "If not now, WHEN?"

If it were up to the conservatives, we would still have "slaves". After all, Jesus approved.

I think you're mistaking Southern Democrats for Republicans.

 

[CurveLight]

Marriage is not a religious ceremony and it never has been endemic to any church.

In many societies, what we call marriage as a socially recognized union has had strong religious undertones. In Europe, this was especially true, as t5he Catholic Church was the onyl government in half a continent for a long time.

Of course there are long ties to religion but that is not the same as saying it is endemic to religion as some claimed.

 

[CurveLight]

Today.....

No he never said that. Weren't you brazenly tossing out accusations about lying what others post? Lol. Read the post again.

I read it fuck face.

Slippery slope? That's nonsense. Same sex marriage is struggling to get enough public support as it is. What other form of marriage is even close to having enough support to ever be legalized?

I know you've latched onto his joint and don't wanna let go but that's too bad.

Why don't you butt out.

You're what I call a time waster.

He never said only the loudest "deserve" equality. He was simply pointing out in the arena of marriage the only recognizable current argument is in relation to gays.
The reason you call me a time waster is because you know you don't have enough time on this earth to successfully debate so you resort to pettiness and trying to silence me with the "butt out" stuff. Stop whining. If you don't like your posts criticized then stop writing them.

 

[NYcarbineer]

No kidding...but then who else is gonna demand equality?

According to you only the people that raise the most hell deserve equality.

Famous line during the civil rights movement, "If not now, WHEN?"

If it were up to the conservatives, we would still have "slaves". After all, Jesus approved.

I think you're mistaking Southern Democrats for Republicans.

Southern Democrats were the CONSERVATIVES of the South for decades.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Yes.....and your point is????

Are you trying to garner sympathy now?

You make no sense. When did I ever say that only the people who raise the most hell deserve equality?

Today.....

Then even you shouldn't have a problem quoting it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you believe the slippery slope theory,

why didn't outlawing polygamy lead to outlawing monogamy?

 

[CurveLight]

If you believe the slippery slope theory,

why didn't outlawing polygamy lead to outlawing monogamy?

Because monogamy is the rule. It is the form of personal relationships to which all others are placed in contrast.

 

[CurveLight]

You make no sense. When did I ever say that only the people who raise the most hell deserve equality?

Today.....

Then even you shouldn't have a problem quoting it.

He did quote it in response to my pointing out he put words in your mouth. Basically, he failed to comprehend your point and continues to be ignorant even after it was explained.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

If you believe the slippery slope theory,

why didn't outlawing polygamy lead to outlawing monogamy?

Because monogamy is the rule. It is the form of personal relationships to which all others are placed in contrast.

Not historically.

Care to try again?

 

[CurveLight]

If you believe the slippery slope theory,

why didn't outlawing polygamy lead to outlawing monogamy?

Because monogamy is the rule. It is the form of personal relationships to which all others are placed in contrast.

Not historically.

Care to try again?

The context is marriage/monogamy in the US today. Monogamy is obviously the rule in America.