Can any con/repub give me good reason why the rich should not be taxed MORE?

[Wurlitzer28]

At this point in matters not who gets taxed more but the question which should be asked is "Given the fed's inability to live within their means what sane person would give them a single penny more"

History proves they will spend more than they take in, then demand more, then spend even more, then demand more, then spend much much more, ......

Unless some ADULT stops this insanity there will be no limit as to how much they will steal from the producers so as to buy votes for their re-election.

True patriotic Americans should demand the government return to its Constitutional limits and any president must limit their executive orders to orders relating to the executive branch ONLY.

 

[The T]

I am no socialist. Capitialism is what made this country so powerful. I think it's great. But that doesn't mean that the government has no place in it. The rich didn't get rich on their own. Society helped make them rich.

If you read through this thread....you see two streams of thought.

1. Everyone should pay something.
2. We need to cut spending.

If those two conditions are met, we might agree to raise taxes. And my guess is that people (the wealthy) would be willing to pay.

If you just want to keep spending...forget it.

Redistribution doesn't work...and that's the current scheme.

 

[Intense]

I am no socialist. Capitialism is what made this country so powerful. I think it's great. But that doesn't mean that the government has no place in it. The rich didn't get rich on their own. Society helped make them rich.

If you read through this thread....you see two streams of thought.

1. Everyone should pay something.
2. We need to cut spending.

If those two conditions are met, we might agree to raise taxes. And my guess is that people (the wealthy) would be willing to pay.

If you just want to keep spending...forget it.

Redistribution doesn't work...and that's the current scheme.

The current Scam.

 

[Wiseacre]

If we can limit tax deductions and still lower the rates and get more revenue, why isn't that a good deal? That's the offer from the repubs in the super committee that the dems turned down.

Look, just as was a bad idea to drastically cut spending by refusing the raise the debt ceiling, so also is it a bad idea to raise taxes that much either. Especially now, even Clinton said so.

 

[Listening]

Can any con/repub give me good reason why the rich should not be taxed MORE?

Because they are special. Many are "demi-gods", that's why Republicans call the the "CREATORS" (play heavenly music here). They are the only ones who work hard. They deserve to run the country. Because they made lots of money.

Perhaps you should ask the rich lib/dems why they don't/haven't willingly, paid more in taxes...duh. Are 'they' special?

Why not ASK OBAMA???
on his $1.7 million (MILLIONAIRE!!!) reported income to reduce his 2010 taxes to 26% rather then donating the full 35% and not taking any charitiable donations as a TAX WRITE OFF!!!
Obama's 2010 Tax return
Obama's Adjusted gross income $1,728,096
Federal taxes paid 453,770 26.26% of gross income
Donations 245,075 14.18% of his income.

Think of the hypocrisy! He bitches and moans about millionaires and billionaires NOT paying "enough">..
AND he takes $245,075 in donations, and OTHER by the way UNKNOWN
deductions.. to chisel his tax bill down to 26%.. when HE COULD HAVE
paid MORE but no... he took advantage of "TAX LOOPHOLES!!

I think that puts him at a lower net rate than Buffet's secretary.

It's gotta be close.

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Anybody who isn't for corporations paying an income tax for profits in other counties (or eliminating federal income taxes of citizens living in other countries), isn't truly for a "fair tax".

We're the only country in the world that charges companies a tax on world-wide income.

Not true. This is from the IRS:

"The corporate foreign tax credit is a set of provisions designed by Congress to eliminate potential double taxation on the foreign-source income of U.S. corporations. Double taxation occurs when an item of income is taxed by both the United States, as the corporation's country of residence, as well as by the country where the income was generated. The current provisions allow U.S. businesses to credit their foreign taxes paid, accrued, or deemed paid against their U.S. income tax liability, subject to limitations that prevent taxpayers from using taxes paid in a country with a higher tax rate than the U.S. to offset their tax liability on U.S. income. Corporations are required to calculate this credit separately for different income categories to prevent taxpayers from combining income that is traditionally taxed at low rates, such as dividend or interest income, with income that is typically taxed at higher rates, such as active business income. The corporate foreign tax credit is reported on Form 1118, Foreign Tax Credit - Corporations."

The idea that companies in the US pay a "world tax", compared to individuals isn't true. As I said before: Companies don't pay US federal taxes in other countries-when the profit is earned there, like Americans do.

If you have any sources that say otherwise-I'd love to hear them.


SOI Tax Stats - Corporate Foreign Tax Credit Statistics

The high U.S. corporate income tax rate is driving jobs overseas as businesses work to remain as competitive as possible in the global marketplace. It doesn’t help that the United States is the only country in the world that taxes its businesses on the income they earn in foreign countries. Every other country only taxes businesses on the income earned within their borders. A reduction of the corporate income tax rate down to at least the average 25 percent rate in the OECD is long overdue.

High Corporate Income Tax Rate Driving Jobs Overseas

So your source on the issue is The Founddry, which is a secondary source, that's obviously biased if you read the article. Mine is the IRS-a primary source. Take a guess at which one is more accurate when it comes to discussing taxes?

According to the IRS companies making profits in other countries only pay the difference between US taxes and that other country's taxes (if there is one).

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not true. This is from the IRS:

"The corporate foreign tax credit is a set of provisions designed by Congress to eliminate potential double taxation on the foreign-source income of U.S. corporations. Double taxation occurs when an item of income is taxed by both the United States, as the corporation's country of residence, as well as by the country where the income was generated. The current provisions allow U.S. businesses to credit their foreign taxes paid, accrued, or deemed paid against their U.S. income tax liability, subject to limitations that prevent taxpayers from using taxes paid in a country with a higher tax rate than the U.S. to offset their tax liability on U.S. income. Corporations are required to calculate this credit separately for different income categories to prevent taxpayers from combining income that is traditionally taxed at low rates, such as dividend or interest income, with income that is typically taxed at higher rates, such as active business income. The corporate foreign tax credit is reported on Form 1118, Foreign Tax Credit - Corporations."

The idea that companies in the US pay a "world tax", compared to individuals isn't true. As I said before: Companies don't pay US federal taxes in other countries-when the profit is earned there, like Americans do.

If you have any sources that say otherwise-I'd love to hear them.


SOI Tax Stats - Corporate Foreign Tax Credit Statistics

The high U.S. corporate income tax rate is driving jobs overseas as businesses work to remain as competitive as possible in the global marketplace. It doesn’t help that the United States is the only country in the world that taxes its businesses on the income they earn in foreign countries. Every other country only taxes businesses on the income earned within their borders. A reduction of the corporate income tax rate down to at least the average 25 percent rate in the OECD is long overdue.

High Corporate Income Tax Rate Driving Jobs Overseas

So your source on the issue is The Founddry, which is a secondary source, that's obviously biased if you read the article. Mine is the IRS-a primary source. Take a guess at which one is more accurate when it comes to discussing taxes?

According to the IRS companies making profits in other countries only pay the difference between US taxes and that other country's taxes (if there is one).

I've known this for years (decades?), that was just the first thing I found after looking for a minute or two.

According to the IRS companies making profits in other countries only pay the difference between US taxes and that other country's taxes

Yes! If a US company makes $1 billion in Brazil, after they pay taxes there, they still owe US taxes.
If a Brazilian company makes $1 billion in the US, after they pay US taxes, they don't owe any additional taxes to Brazil for those US based profits.

I'm glad you agree with my claim. Now what were you saying about bias?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It has been an issue since the 1970's that productivity in the lower and middle class jobs have risen, but wages have remained flat. In other words, the "rich" are not earning all of the money that they make.

If those at the top of the income distribution receive far more than the value of what they create, and those at lower income levels receive less, then one way to correct this is to increase taxes at the upper end of the income distribution and use the proceeds to protect important social programs that benefit working-class households, programs that are currently threatened by budget deficits.

This would help to rectify the maldistribution of income that is preventing workers from realizing their share of the gains from economic growth.

In what way does this not make any sense?

And don't get it twisted. I have nothing against the wealthy. I think these hard-working individuals deserve to be well paid for what they do, but not nearly to this extent.

Do you really expect to get a discussion with the way you titled your thread you fucking libturd

 

[FactFinder]

What YOU think someone SHOULD be paid is irrelevant in a free society... you NOR government gets to dictate what someone SHOULD be paid...

And in a free society of equal treatment under law, how is it you think the 'evil rich' should be treated differently where ~50% pay income taxes and ~50% pay ZERO income taxes to the fed??

Government also does not exist for the redistribution of wealth... sorry charlie, this ain't a commune

The only share you are entitled to is the share you actually earn thru your own effort, choices, actions, etc.... not one that is owed to you simply because you exist as a citizen in this country

So stock brokers who drove the economy in the ground thru "creative" financial instruments and drove the value of those instruments into negative territory deserve multi million dollar bonuses how?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What YOU think someone SHOULD be paid is irrelevant in a free society... you NOR government gets to dictate what someone SHOULD be paid...

And in a free society of equal treatment under law, how is it you think the 'evil rich' should be treated differently where ~50% pay income taxes and ~50% pay ZERO income taxes to the fed??

Government also does not exist for the redistribution of wealth... sorry charlie, this ain't a commune

The only share you are entitled to is the share you actually earn thru your own effort, choices, actions, etc.... not one that is owed to you simply because you exist as a citizen in this country

So stock brokers who drove the economy in the ground thru "creative" financial instruments and drove the value of those instruments into negative territory deserve multi million dollar bonuses how?

Which financial instruments drove the economy into the ground? How?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can any Democrat tell me why the rich need to be shaken down? Capitalism does not eat the rich imho.

EAT THE RICH! - YouTube

Socialists do eat the rich.

Why do you think they like socialism so much better than capitalism?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

What YOU think someone SHOULD be paid is irrelevant in a free society... you NOR government gets to dictate what someone SHOULD be paid...

And in a free society of equal treatment under law, how is it you think the 'evil rich' should be treated differently where ~50% pay income taxes and ~50% pay ZERO income taxes to the fed??

Government also does not exist for the redistribution of wealth... sorry charlie, this ain't a commune

The only share you are entitled to is the share you actually earn thru your own effort, choices, actions, etc.... not one that is owed to you simply because you exist as a citizen in this country

So stock brokers who drove the economy in the ground thru "creative" financial instruments and drove the value of those instruments into negative territory deserve multi million dollar bonuses how?

Why would people who make there money and livelihood on a system try to drive it into the ground? Your opinion makes no sense. Why would people try to kill the thing that makes them rich?

 

[Cecilie1200]

What about cutting SPENDING?? You know.. on those redundant agencies, entitlement programs, etc?? You don't just cope with a deficit problem by taxing more on the 50% that pay federal income taxes

Yup, I'm on board with cutting spending. But we're talking about taxes now. Try and stay on topic.

You're the one saying that how you attack the deficit is thru higher taxation on the 'rich' or ending the 'Bush tax cuts'... I am merely saying that cutting spending is the better approach

You assume that attacking the deficit is his primary goal, rather than just a smokescreen he's tossing out to conceal his true aims and to try to sucker people into agreeing to raise taxes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Can any lib/dem give me a good reason why the gov't should spend more than 4 trillion in about 3 years over the revenue they took in? We're about to hit 15 trillion in debt by year's end, many project the debt to rise to $25 trillion in 10 years.

News flash to the lib/dems: you can't raise taxes enough to cover it, not even close. Say we did raise taxes enough to get an extra trillion in revenue like Obama wants. What the fuck are you going to do about the other 24 fucking trillion dollars in debt? When are you going to accept the fact that we have a spending problem that our kids are going to have to pay for?

I'd concede that it may take both, but in the ratio of how much government discipline and tax increases it's going to to take far more of the former than the later. Here's an idea dem's. What if we could raise tax revenue without actually raising tax rates?

First you're going to have to make them understand that they aren't the same thing.

 

[Oldstyle]

It's still an opinion, no matter how strongly you believe it slappy

And I don't even know (nor do I care) what you question is.

But whatcha gonna do?

Bottom line on this issue still hasn't changed, Manifold...

The reason that Obama didn't raise taxes during this economic downturn...why Christina Romer said it was a bad idea to raise taxes in an economic downturn...is that doing so will throw a wet blanket over an already anemic recovery.

So if we can't raise taxes why haven't we cut spending?

I think we all can admit that government is rife with waste...we are broke and having to borrow money to keep ourselves afloat...and yet we STILL haven't cut government spending and forced them to clean up their act. That's insane...

So vote for Ron Paul in the primary. That's what I'm going to do.

I would but the little guy's idea that it's OK for Iran to have the bomb is so idiotic that I don't want him anywhere near the Oval Office. Newt Gingrich would be the best choice if you wanted things fixed but I'm not sure he can beat Obama because he's so hated by many Americans because he went after Clinton. Romney can beat Obama but I'm still angry at him for foisting RomneyCare on Massachusetts and helping to give the country ObamaCare. Perry can't win because he's clueless in debates and Obama would eat his lunch under our current method of choosing Presidents.

The guy I've always wanted to run and would vote for in a nanosecond is Paul Ryan.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I fall into the broad category of the rich. And I'm willing to pay more. Just as soon as those paying nothing pay something.

Basically just a continuation of the elite rich mentality. "I'll pay more as long as there is more suffering beneath me."

Yeah, it's really elitist to say, "I'll gladly continue pulling the cart if you'll just get out of it and push a little."

 

[Oldstyle]

Yup, I'm on board with cutting spending. But we're talking about taxes now. Try and stay on topic.

You're the one saying that how you attack the deficit is thru higher taxation on the 'rich' or ending the 'Bush tax cuts'... I am merely saying that cutting spending is the better approach

You assume that attacking the deficit is his primary goal, rather than just a smokescreen he's tossing out to conceal his true aims and to try to sucker people into agreeing to raise taxes.

He's someone that STILL thinks pouring more water into that leaking bucket while talking about fixing it "somewhere down the line" makes sense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What YOU think someone SHOULD be paid is irrelevant in a free society... you NOR government gets to dictate what someone SHOULD be paid...

And in a free society of equal treatment under law, how is it you think the 'evil rich' should be treated differently where ~50% pay income taxes and ~50% pay ZERO income taxes to the fed??

Government also does not exist for the redistribution of wealth... sorry charlie, this ain't a commune

The only share you are entitled to is the share you actually earn thru your own effort, choices, actions, etc.... not one that is owed to you simply because you exist as a citizen in this country

So stock brokers who drove the economy in the ground thru "creative" financial instruments and drove the value of those instruments into negative territory deserve multi million dollar bonuses how?

I don't know about you, but I don't employ any stock brokers. Ergo, I am not paying any bonuses to stock brokers (unless, of course, the government has decided to give my tax money to some stock brokers via bailouts or what-have-you), which means it's none of my business to decide if they "deserve" them or not. It's the business of whoever employs them.

And if you really want to point out the people who "drove the economy into the ground", I'm thinking you need to dig a lot deeper than a vague accusation of "stock brokers".

 

[Cecilie1200]

What YOU think someone SHOULD be paid is irrelevant in a free society... you NOR government gets to dictate what someone SHOULD be paid...

And in a free society of equal treatment under law, how is it you think the 'evil rich' should be treated differently where ~50% pay income taxes and ~50% pay ZERO income taxes to the fed??

Government also does not exist for the redistribution of wealth... sorry charlie, this ain't a commune

The only share you are entitled to is the share you actually earn thru your own effort, choices, actions, etc.... not one that is owed to you simply because you exist as a citizen in this country

So stock brokers who drove the economy in the ground thru "creative" financial instruments and drove the value of those instruments into negative territory deserve multi million dollar bonuses how?

Why would people who make there money and livelihood on a system try to drive it into the ground? Your opinion makes no sense. Why would people try to kill the thing that makes them rich?

Well, liberals keep trying to kill the US economy, which makes many of THEM rich. You're asking for logic from people who have none.

 

[Ropey]

I fall into the broad category of the rich. And I'm willing to pay more. Just as soon as those paying nothing pay something.

Basically just a continuation of the elite rich mentality. "I'll pay more as long as there is more suffering beneath me."

Yeah, it's really elitist to say, "I'll gladly continue pulling the cart if you'll just get out of it and push a little."

Well put.