Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[Kondor3]

[
My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

Horseshit.

You know what, my last trip to the DMV to get my license renewed, I was in an out in less than ten minutes. And I had the option of doing it by mail. (I just like my DL to have a recent picture on it.)

Meanwhile, when I went to the Comcast Office next door to the DMV to ask some questions on how to do something, I didn't get nearly the answer I wanted and they had me waiting twice as long.

Frankly, I don't worship "the Bottom LIne" the way you assholes do.

The Bottom LIne meant that when the last company I worked for lost money, it was easier to fire the people who had been their longer because they made more money. They didn't fire the managers who made all the bad decisions that lead them to that point. They fired Joe because even though Joe had seniority on everyone, he had also made $50,000 in medical insurance claims the year before due to an injury.

Yes, i guess the system you praise works great for the 1%ers. The same could be said about pre-Revolutionary France. If you were the First or Second Estates, it was awesome. Until the rabble broke out the Guillotines, anyway.

Too bad you didn't read the rest of the exchange between our colleague Sallow and I, terminating with clarifications and near-same-page agreement, here...

Can Any Dem lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently Page 4 US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

That was just the start, and it was served-up as a benchmark, and point of departure, not the end-all be-all nor an endorsement.

WTF is wrong with you? Somebody pee in your Cheerios this morning?

 

[candycorn]

Did @Redfish ever post his credit score, @Sallow?

 

[AmericanGirl05]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

I'm a Federal retiree who had 38 years of service in 6 different Federal agencies.

You can't imagine what I've seen. And I was proud of being able to serve my country.

The idea of the Federal bureaucracy is to be fair, not efficient, and to carry out the will of people in a professional manner.

However, the Obama Administration has appointed incompetents and sycophants and politicized the civil service.

It will never recover.

 

[Londoner]

Horseshit.

You know what, my last trip to the DMV to get my license renewed, I was in an out in less than ten minutes. And I had the option of doing it by mail. (I just like my DL to have a recent picture on it.)

Meanwhile, when I went to the Comcast Office next door to the DMV to ask some questions on how to do something, I didn't get nearly the answer I wanted and they had me waiting twice as long.

Bingo.

Here is what Republicans don't understand.

Large Corporations - because of the toxic levels of lobbying that began in 1980 - are the new "Big Government". They now wield the centralized power of Washington against the interest of consumers. Problem is, there information source are owned by the corporations that own government - so our Republican friends, however well meaning, are now the useful idiots of the powers which control the very bureaucracy they hate.

The cable/internet companies, for instance, have a virtual monopoly (which is repeated across industries, including health insurance, transportation and energy). Large corporations, with the help of their Washington puppets, have divided the country into fixed "no-compete" zones which allows them to raise rates & decrease services without being disciplined by competition. This is why the USA is last among advanced industrial nations for its ratio of citizens with/without access to internet, which access, in a Democracy, is now almost essential to informed citizenship, not to mention educational and career advancement.

The deregulatory movement that started under Carter devolved into a farce under Reagan/Bush/Clinton. Lobbyists now write their own regulations and the laws that government their industry.

Look at the SEC under Clinton/Bush. It went from an agency which was a semi-effective at preventing fraud to an enabler of Enron and the derivatives nightmare. Nearly every government agency has been fully captured by the most powerful market players.

Welcome to the final phase of capitalism where corporations no longer have to compete and offer good service to retain customers. (The Right has been duped. They still think we have the kind of "Main Street" Capitalism of Adam Smith's era. They don't get. AIG is larger than the Edinburgh of Smith's youth. These mega-corporations are not only larger than many of the governments they own, but they have promised many sitting congressmen lobbying positions when they leave office. Do not ever mention this to Republicans because their news sources never fully explain lobbying and the degree of control our capitalists have over Washington)

Our noble capitalists now own The US government - and the following video is an example of the service they provide. I'll take the DMV any day of the week.

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

What is the cost of the F35 now? Ya know, the cheap version of the air defense fighter. I think it's at about $350 millions a pop. Yeah, now that's efficient!

Don't know....what is the going rate for an invisible aircraft?

It's not invisible. The F35 is no cheaper than the F22, and the whole point of the F35 was that it was supposed to be cheaper than the F22. The average cost of the F15 fighter over the entire program is $43 million. The F35 will cost almost 10 times as much. The price of an F117 Nighthawk is $42 million.

There is no way anyone can claim the F35 is a cheap airplane, no matter what its capabilities.

F35 is developing state of the art technologies that were beyond imagination a decade ago. We have had many aircraft in our history that did not work out. Doesn't mean you don't keep trying
Our same inept government has also developed the B52, C130, F16 and other airframes that have served over 50 years
Want a high tech airplane developed by our inept government? Look at the SR71

 

[Meathead]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

I thought in your world large corporations were controlling government anyway.

 

[Wildman]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
looks photshopped to me, look at the dark lines around the legs, feet and toes, it is posible, but i do not believe this crap, besides,


Pojo, ......................... .............

 

[Iceweasel]

Here is what Republicans don't understand.

Large Corporations - because of the toxic levels of lobbying that began in 1980 - are the new "Big Government". They now wield the centralized power of Washington against the interest of consumers. Problem is, there information source are owned by the corporations that own government - so our Republican friends, however well meaning, are now the useful idiots of the powers which control the very bureaucracy they hate.

Typical leftist drivel. There are Republican and Democrats that are very much part of the crony capitalism and sweetheart deals. It happens because government is too big and far reaching. Conservatives are the ones protesting it, all libs do is rail against big business.

The cable/internet companies, for instance, have a virtual monopoly (which is repeated across industries, including health insurance, transportation and energy). Large corporations, with the help of their Washington puppets, have divided the country into fixed "no-compete" zones which allows them to raise rates & decrease services without being disciplined by competition. This is why the USA is last among advanced industrial nations for its ratio of citizens with/without access to internet, which access, in a Democracy, is now almost essential to informed citizenship, not to mention educational and career advancement.

The deregulatory movement that started under Carter devolved into a farce under Reagan/Bush/Clinton. Lobbyists now write their own regulations and the laws that government their industry.

Look at the SEC under Clinton/Bush. It went from an agency which was a semi-effective at preventing fraud to an enabler of Enron and the derivatives nightmare. Nearly every government agency has been fully captured by the most powerful market players.

Welcome to the final phase of capitalism where corporations no longer have to compete and offer good service to retain customers. (The Right has been duped. They still think we have the kind of "Main Street" Capitalism of Adam Smith's era. They don't get. AIG is larger than the Edinburgh of Smith's youth. These mega-corporations are not only larger than many of the governments they own, but they have promised many sitting congressmen lobbying positions when they leave office. Do not ever mention this to Republicans because their news sources never fully explain lobbying and the degree of control our capitalists have over Washington)

Our noble capitalists now own The US government - and the following video is an example of the service they provide. I'll take the DMV any day of the week.

Or "Republicans" (because you are too stupid to understand not all are conservative) reject the left's attempts to demonize capitalism. We know better. The problem is government, not a free market system that works best for the economy.

 

[Redfish]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

We have control over our government????????????? really?

corporations are controlled by their financial results and their shareholders. the government is accountable to no one. Sure, we can vote them out, but the number of lifetime congressmen and women prove that does not work.

Which govt agency do you think we citizens have control of? which of them is accountable to us?

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

We have control over our government????????????? really?

corporations are controlled by their financial results and their shareholders. the government is accountable to no one. Sure, we can vote them out, but the number of lifetime congressmen and women prove that does not work.

Which govt agency do you think we citizens have control of? which of them is accountable to us?

Yes we have control over our government, we see the results in every election
All government agencies are accountable to the people
We have no control over a corporation who seeks profit over the best interests of we the people

 

[Redfish]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

We have control over our government????????????? really?

corporations are controlled by their financial results and their shareholders. the government is accountable to no one. Sure, we can vote them out, but the number of lifetime congressmen and women prove that does not work.

Which govt agency do you think we citizens have control of? which of them is accountable to us?

Yes we have control over our government, we see the results in every election
All government agencies are accountable to the people
We have no control over a corporation who seeks profit over the best interests of we the people

LOL, you amaze me with your naivte.

We have the ultimate control over corporations. If we don't like them or what they are doing we stop buying their products and they go out of business.

Your claim about elections might have some validity if we had term limits, but we don't. Instead we have congress full of career politicians who are sucking the country dry while they fill their bank accounts. But I guess you are OK with that as long as they are democrats, right?

 

[rightwinger]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

We have control over our government????????????? really?

corporations are controlled by their financial results and their shareholders. the government is accountable to no one. Sure, we can vote them out, but the number of lifetime congressmen and women prove that does not work.

Which govt agency do you think we citizens have control of? which of them is accountable to us?

Yes we have control over our government, we see the results in every election
All government agencies are accountable to the people
We have no control over a corporation who seeks profit over the best interests of we the people

LOL, you amaze me with your naivte.

We have the ultimate control over corporations. If we don't like them or what they are doing we stop buying their products and they go out of business.

Your claim about elections might have some validity if we had term limits, but we don't. Instead we have congress full of career politicians who are sucking the country dry while they fill their bank accounts. But I guess you are OK with that as long as they are democrats, right?

Now who is being naive?

 

[Redfish]

Exactly

The idea that we should entrust our lives to large corporations that we have no control over instead of a government that we do is just plain scary

We have control over our government????????????? really?

corporations are controlled by their financial results and their shareholders. the government is accountable to no one. Sure, we can vote them out, but the number of lifetime congressmen and women prove that does not work.

Which govt agency do you think we citizens have control of? which of them is accountable to us?

Yes we have control over our government, we see the results in every election
All government agencies are accountable to the people
We have no control over a corporation who seeks profit over the best interests of we the people

LOL, you amaze me with your naivte.

We have the ultimate control over corporations. If we don't like them or what they are doing we stop buying their products and they go out of business.

Your claim about elections might have some validity if we had term limits, but we don't. Instead we have congress full of career politicians who are sucking the country dry while they fill their bank accounts. But I guess you are OK with that as long as they are democrats, right?

Now who is being naive?

you, as I said earlier.

BTW, when do you revert to your jake identity?

 

[NYcarbineer]

You guys keep ranting about turning all of medicine over to the government. What has the government ever run efficiently? the post office? DOD? Social security? medicare? welfare? border security? the budget?

Why would you want to turn more of our economy over to them?

What's inefficient about Social Security?

 

[Sallow]

Did @Redfish ever post his credit score, @Sallow?

Nope

 

[Sallow]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

And there in lies the difference between conservative and liberal thought.

For conservatives, wealth is the one and only goal. With wealth, for a conservative, comes power and the ability to exert one's will over others.

For liberals, it is the advancement of civilization, as a whole that is the goal. If a civilization is effective in providing safety, scholarship and is sustainable for the future, that's success.

It's a vastly different mindset.

Newsflash, mine good colleague...

We are closer to being on the same page here than you appear to perceive...

My reference to private corporations and gauges for success is not an indicator that I (or anyone else) citing that gauge is not also in favor of the advancement of civilization.

It is merely an articulation of the hard-and-fast indicators available in the private sector, versus the need for better barometers and mission and charter and goals and outcomes measurement in the public sector.

Nowhere in my own meanderings here on the subject will you find a mindless advocacy that the private sector can do everything better than the public one.

I throw rocks at the public sector here as my own microscopic contribution to public airings of opining that we have much work yet to do on the public side of the fence.

Well heck.

I am a big advocate of finding out where a plan goes wrong..and fixing it.

Yes men are just as injurious to a process as people who want to tear it down.

Grats.

how would you fix our national debt of 17 trillion dollars?

Put a moratorium on Defense Spending for 2 years.

That would clean up about 16 trillion in debt.

 

[Sallow]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

Again, you show you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

"Waste" isn't necessarily inefficient. Sometimes you have to bake in "waste" into your provisioning model. Why? Because in most cases, what you are doing is not stagnant or rote. Your work or business requires you to do things are fluid and always changing. And many times you have to make the best guess about what your resources should be. It's always "efficient" to have more than you need as opposed to not enough.

Because if you have "not enough"? You've failed.

Right. The Post Office is in a business that is "fluid" and "always changing."

Who are you trying to kid?

The post office is much more effective and efficient then either FEDEX or UPS.

The reason it's "losing" money is because conservatives in Congress are trying to kill it:

1. Through funding pensions in a manner no other business or public agency has to do.
2. Having no control over how to price services, so they are kept unusually low.

Sheesh..that was easy.

 

[Sallow]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

Of course it does.

Because it's in line with the magical thinking.

There is no benchmark or metric they can point to, without cherry picking.

 

[Redfish]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

And there in lies the difference between conservative and liberal thought.

For conservatives, wealth is the one and only goal. With wealth, for a conservative, comes power and the ability to exert one's will over others.

For liberals, it is the advancement of civilization, as a whole that is the goal. If a civilization is effective in providing safety, scholarship and is sustainable for the future, that's success.

It's a vastly different mindset.

Newsflash, mine good colleague...

We are closer to being on the same page here than you appear to perceive...

My reference to private corporations and gauges for success is not an indicator that I (or anyone else) citing that gauge is not also in favor of the advancement of civilization.

It is merely an articulation of the hard-and-fast indicators available in the private sector, versus the need for better barometers and mission and charter and goals and outcomes measurement in the public sector.

Nowhere in my own meanderings here on the subject will you find a mindless advocacy that the private sector can do everything better than the public one.

I throw rocks at the public sector here as my own microscopic contribution to public airings of opining that we have much work yet to do on the public side of the fence.

Well heck.

I am a big advocate of finding out where a plan goes wrong..and fixing it.

Yes men are just as injurious to a process as people who want to tear it down.

Grats.

how would you fix our national debt of 17 trillion dollars?

Put a moratorium on Defense Spending for 2 years.

That would clean up about 16 trillion in debt.

How would Obama destroy ISIS as he said he wants to do? Would you lay off 100% of the military?

your statement is just plain stupid, not surprising coming from you.