Can Any Dem/lib Tell Us What Agency The Govt Has Run Efficiently?

[thereisnospoon]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Great story, but off topic. Was the FDA efficient in banning that drug? "efficient" not "effective". DOD for the most part is effective, but it is never efficient.

Not sure what kind of distinction you're trying to draw between effective and efficient.

You're saying Frances Kelsey spent too much money saying no to Thalidomide?

By the way -- about the nature of these things... Kelsey (who had been at FDA for a total of one month) put up that stop sign in 1960. What do you suppose would be the chances of such a stop sign getting put up in 2014?

Or in recent times at all -- Donald Rumsfeld and Aspartame

This cockamamie portrait of Da Big Bad Gummint as the villain, studiously keeping one's eye off who's pulling its puppet strings, is exactly the dance those puppeteers want to see you doing.

Good puppet. Have a cookie.

I said that was a great story, and a real success. I don't know if the FDA was efficient in that effort or not, do you? Our wonderful government has put US 17 trillion dollars in debt. It has spent 17 trillion dollars more that it has collected. It borrowed much of that from our potential enemies. Is that your definition of efficient?

You're rambling all over the map, dood. "Yeah but" this, "yeah but" that...


Fallacy of Overwhelming Exception:

​

This is classic conservatism.

It's magical thinking.

They believe we can have a top shelf military without taxes.

Ahh yes...Well that didn't take long..to roll out a straw man...
Hey financial whiz...Mr WALL STREET.....No one ever claimed we should pay no taxes.
Just because you've chosen to live in one of the most expensive cities in the US in a state which has a welfare system larger than the entire budgets of 30 other US states dos not give you the right to tell the rest of us we must suffer as you do.
And don't give me this shit that "you're good with it"....I grew up in the NY Metro area. One of the most favorite pastimes of New Yorkers is not baseball. That distinction goes to "bitching about the cost of living and the out of control taxation".
Do you know the term given to snow birds given by native Floridians? Answer "Cranky Yankees"....

 

[bripat9643]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

What is the cost of the F35 now? Ya know, the cheap version of the air defense fighter. I think it's at about $350 millions a pop. Yeah, now that's efficient!

 

[Vandalshandle]

The house my parents owned was originally supplied by a privately owned water company. The company wanted to pass a bond issue to buy the private company out. As an incentive, they promised they would improve the water pressure. It wasn't the best, but it was still adequate. My mother was so pissed because she voted for it, but after it passed the county tripled the monthly rate for water service.

Yeah, that's government "efficiency" for you - efficient at raping the taxpayers.

Sound like your mother's local government was not very efficient. Since it had the vote and support of your mother, than I guess that means that............well, you get the drift.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

Again, you show you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

"Waste" isn't necessarily inefficient. Sometimes you have to bake in "waste" into your provisioning model. Why? Because in most cases, what you are doing is not stagnant or rote. Your work or business requires you to do things are fluid and always changing. And many times you have to make the best guess about what your resources should be. It's always "efficient" to have more than you need as opposed to not enough.

Because if you have "not enough"? You've failed.

classic liberal jiberish. in red. amazing and pathetic

Not "jiberish" at all.

Reality.

only in the mind of a libtardian. "waste is good" "budgets are bad" Is that the way you run your personal finances? Do you have a credit rating of 8?

I'll match my credit rating, wealth, health, intellect and just about anything against yours any day of the week, nimrod.

WTF does that have to do with wasteful and inefficient government.
You just ran out of gas, pal....You're DONE.

 

[thereisnospoon]

USMB nutters think everything that has ever been accomplished by the US government could have been accomplished for less money.

USMB nutters.....like all Americans......would experience a drastic reduction in lifestyle if the US government expenditures were to be cut in the manner that they support.

This talking point about inefficient government is old. And....we are trimming the deficit as we speak.

Bullshit....If government took less form us and spent our money wisely, we'd have an even higher standard of living.
Government in its present form, has no accountability to the people. We have to sit by and watch as our money magically disappears. And no one gets called on the carpet.

 

[bripat9643]

The house my parents owned was originally supplied by a privately owned water company. The company wanted to pass a bond issue to buy the private company out. As an incentive, they promised they would improve the water pressure. It wasn't the best, but it was still adequate. My mother was so pissed because she voted for it, but after it passed the county tripled the monthly rate for water service.

Yeah, that's government "efficiency" for you - efficient at raping the taxpayers.

Sound like your mother's local government was not very efficient. Since it had the vote and support of your mother, than I guess that means that............well, you get the drift.

Are you calling my mother stupid, asshole?

Like you, my mother is naive about government. However, the fact remains that the county charged 3 times more than a private company to supply water to my parent's house. Blaming the voters doesn't change the fact that the county government is incompetent to run a water company.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Tens of thousands of babies in the 1950s-'60s were born with deformities like this from Thalidomide:​

Happened all over the world in over 40 countries. Didn't happen in the U.S.

Why not? Because the FDA put up a stop sign. And they were right.


This is Frances Kelsey of the FDA who put up that stop sign receiving the President's Award for Distinguished Citizen Service for doing that. She just turned 100 years old this summer.

​

I'm not sure what that has to do with "the economy" but there ya go.

Additionally?

The safety record of American Airliners are remarkable. That's not because the captains of industry wish Americans to safely travel by air. That's because the Government has rigorous regulations in regards to air travel.

another dem/lib that does not know what "efficient" means. Yes, american airlines are pretty safe compared to those of maylaysia and kenya. But is the FAA efficient in its regulation of airlines? Is TSA an efficiently run agency? How about the border patrol? are we getting efficient effective border security from that govt agency?

Hey, you asked for an example, you got two --- now you want to "yeah but" cherrypick?

Poster please.

those are not examples of efficient operations. Success can be achieved in an inefficient operation. Our military is very effective, but I don't think anyone on earth would call DOD efficient. the USPS does a pretty good job delivering the mail, but it loses money every quarter----------efficient????

Again, you show you don't have any idea what you are talking about.

"Waste" isn't necessarily inefficient. Sometimes you have to bake in "waste" into your provisioning model. Why? Because in most cases, what you are doing is not stagnant or rote. Your work or business requires you to do things are fluid and always changing. And many times you have to make the best guess about what your resources should be. It's always "efficient" to have more than you need as opposed to not enough.

Because if you have "not enough"? You've failed.

classic liberal jiberish. in red. amazing and pathetic

Not "jiberish" at all.

Reality.

only in the mind of a libtardian. "waste is good" "budgets are bad" Is that the way you run your personal finances? Do you have a credit rating of 8?

I'll match my credit rating, wealth, health, intellect and just about anything against yours any day of the week, nimrod.

Sure, OK. you post yours and then I'll post mine.

View attachment 31860

Go

Monthly Credit Bureau Score
TransUnion
Aug 18, 2014 (monthly)
773

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

+17 points since
Jul 18, 2014...

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it......

 

[thereisnospoon]

Dollar for dollar, America offers the most effective and efficient government on the planet, doing so for about 20 cents on the dollar nationally, 28 cents if you include state and local taxes.

The OP is parroting a talking point. If he isn't maybe he can prove the above WRONG and/or name another country that can match or best those figures.

Hmm.
Better check your facts.
In the link provided below, it is shown that for every dollar the US govt spends, it borrows 50 cents...
So your figures just don't pass the smell test.\
US Government Budget Visualized Tax Revenue Deficit stacked in 100 bills

 

[rightwinger]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

What is the cost of the F35 now? Ya know, the cheap version of the air defense fighter. I think it's at about $350 millions a pop. Yeah, now that's efficient!

Don't know....what is the going rate for an invisible aircraft?

 

[thereisnospoon]

[]It's much easier to fire incompetents in the private sector as you know only too well.

Um, no, not really. I've seen incompetents promoted and I've seen really good people fired or driven to quit.

But you live in an ex-communist shithole because you couldn't even meet that low standard.

I know we don't have your murder rate, drug problems, gangs, homelessness, fat women and corrupt politicians (well...not as corrupt anyway), but you're the only one I've ever heard calling Prague a shit hole. With Chicago, that's simply a given.

You've been fired several times because of incompetence as we all know. You should have been a postal worker because I don't think you could even cut it at Wal-Mart.

I no longer post to Joe because he contributes nothing to threads. All he does his bitch whine and and complain about how he's been a victim his entire working career. And that nothing that has befallen him is his doing. Everything in Joe's life he has been a victim. He lashes out at those who oppose his point of view.

 

[thereisnospoon]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Not the point. The issue is that government could do infinitely better.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Most of them.

Most government agencies couldn't find their backsides with both hands in a well-lit room surrounded by mirrors.

Oftentimes staffed by dull, unimaginative, self-seeking bureaucratic and calendar-watching pension-sniffers, bellying-up to the trough for their unfair share of budget dollars, territorial, secretive, self-promoting, self-preserving, overlapping and wasteful, many of those same departments need a thorough housecleaning, mission and charter review, new performance indicators and outcomes evaluation, new and more visible and transparent public accountability, and, in some cases, closure, consolidation or downsizing.

Uh-huh.

Unlike the Private Sector, which are run by the cream of the crop.

frankly, I've seen more incompetence in the private sector than I've ever seen in the government.

My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

And there in lies the difference between conservative and liberal thought.

For conservatives, wealth is the one and only goal. With wealth, for a conservative, comes power and the ability to exert one's will over others.

For liberals, it is the advancement of civilization, as a whole that is the goal. If a civilization is effective in providing safety, scholarship and is sustainable for the future, that's success.

It's a vastly different mindset.

What a pile of dog crap.....Hey, you just borrowed a juicy rationalization from tomorrow. You now owe. Pay your tab

 

[bripat9643]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

What is the cost of the F35 now? Ya know, the cheap version of the air defense fighter. I think it's at about $350 millions a pop. Yeah, now that's efficient!

Don't know....what is the going rate for an invisible aircraft?

It's not invisible. The F35 is no cheaper than the F22, and the whole point of the F35 was that it was supposed to be cheaper than the F22. The average cost of the F15 fighter over the entire program is $43 million. The F35 will cost almost 10 times as much. The price of an F117 Nighthawk is $42 million.

There is no way anyone can claim the F35 is a cheap airplane, no matter what its capabilities.

 

[thereisnospoon]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

Oh so now it's the fault of the taxpayers that government spends more than it receives in revenues.
That's just terrific.
BTW it is not "we" that do the demanding,. It is all the fucking parasites that vote for politicians who promise free shit that do the demanding. And liberal political candidates are all too eager to oblige them.
As opposed to you, I don't want a fucking save the essential forms and functions of government from those pricks up in Washington.
The most frightening thing I have ever heard is "I'm with the government. I'm here to help".....

 

[thereisnospoon]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

I agree with you 100%. But we are 17 trillion dollars in debt. We have not achieved those things you mentioned with fiscal efficiency. Are you now, as a liberal, claiming that NASA and DOD have been run efficiently?

We are 17 trillion in debt because we are lazy and demand we get more services for less taxes

We are getting what we the people asked for

so we should just say WTF and continue the path to fiscal ruin???????????? is that your plan?

but you are dodging. I asked if you think NASA and DOD were run efficiently. care to answer?

NASA and DOD....absolutely

Given the uncharted R&D mission they have undertaken they are both efficient and effective

Haven't seen a better space program or defense

OMG, $200 dollar hammers. bridges to nowhere. weapons systems that the military does not want or need, NASA being used for muslim outreach.

what planet are you on?

What is the cost of the F35 now? Ya know, the cheap version of the air defense fighter. I think it's at about $350 millions a pop. Yeah, now that's efficient!

Don't know....what is the going rate for an invisible aircraft?

It's not invisible. The F35 is no cheaper than the F22, and the whole point of the F35 was that it was supposed to be cheaper than the F22. The average cost of the F15 fighter over the entire program is $43 million. The F35 will cost almost 10 times as much. The price of an F117 Nighthawk is $42 million.

There is no way anyone can claim the F35 is a cheap airplane, no matter what its capabilities.

Yet those geniuses cancelled the F-22 project....Oh, Lockheed Martin was paid for aircraft they didn't build.
The F-35 is a very cool aircraft. But it's $400 million per unit cost is an absolute tragedy.

 

[thereisnospoon]

We have the strongest military in the history of mankind, safe food and drugs, we went to the moon, we have made major strides in protecting our environment, government funded R&D in medicine, science and technology

I will take our government over any government on earth

Anyone want to argue with me?

Oh, nolo contendere...

However, even within the sampling domain of The Best that you cite here, there is great waste, and great fault, and great laziness, and great greed, and great inefficiency.

You can argue that one until you're blue in the face but it won't get you anywhere.

Show me a more efficient and effective government and we can start

Go at it

because everyone else is worse justifies mismanagement or our finances?????????????? only in the mind of a liberal.

Just putting things in perspective

The fact that you can't name a preferable govt speaks volumes

this is not about our govt vs some other govt. it is about our govt wasting our hard earned tax money and the fact that you libs want to turn more over to them to waste.

You are demanding an absolute without a comparable model of success from another nation

We do damned well

I am not denying that------------do you deny that we could to better? Do you really think that the govt could manage medical care for 330,000,000 people efficiently?

Why don't you quit dancing around and cut to the chase
You want to privatize our government


And yes, I think the government could do a better job at managing our medical care than a hodgepodge of insurance companies

Well fortunately you'll never get your wish.
What you think is immaterial....All of you people who want government run health insurance are simply looking for free services. Newsflash....Not possible.

 

[JoeB131]

[]It's much easier to fire incompetents in the private sector as you know only too well.

Um, no, not really. I've seen incompetents promoted and I've seen really good people fired or driven to quit.

But you live in an ex-communist shithole because you couldn't even meet that low standard.

I know we don't have your murder rate, drug problems, gangs, homelessness, fat women and corrupt politicians (well...not as corrupt anyway), but you're the only one I've ever heard calling Prague a shit hole. With Chicago, that's simply a given.

You've been fired several times because of incompetence as we all know. You should have been a postal worker because I don't think you could even cut it at Wal-Mart.

I've seen pictures from your country. YOu have plenty of fat women. Frankly, your country is the third world of Europe, the shithole they go to for cheap labor.

But man, keep ontrolling the thread, baby, that's all you're good for.

 

[JoeB131]

[
My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

Horseshit.

You know what, my last trip to the DMV to get my license renewed, I was in an out in less than ten minutes. And I had the option of doing it by mail. (I just like my DL to have a recent picture on it.)

Meanwhile, when I went to the Comcast Office next door to the DMV to ask some questions on how to do something, I didn't get nearly the answer I wanted and they had me waiting twice as long.

Frankly, I don't worship "the Bottom LIne" the way you assholes do.

The Bottom LIne meant that when the last company I worked for lost money, it was easier to fire the people who had been their longer because they made more money. They didn't fire the managers who made all the bad decisions that lead them to that point. They fired Joe because even though Joe had seniority on everyone, he had also made $50,000 in medical insurance claims the year before due to an injury.

Yes, i guess the system you praise works great for the 1%ers. The same could be said about pre-Revolutionary France. If you were the First or Second Estates, it was awesome. Until the rabble broke out the Guillotines, anyway.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The USDA is another efficient Federal agency, given the size and scope of its regulatory responsibilities, the many challenges facing American agriculture, and its administrative duties concerning the SNAP program.


In essence the issue of the 'efficiency' of the Federal government is nothing more than a partisan game of bickering over whether the glass is half empty or half full.

The USDA is totally unnecessary, so how is it "efficient?" I once did some contract work for the FDA, and I can tell you from personal experience that there is nothing "efficient" about it.

THe USDA would have to hire ten times the inspectors to keep up with the demand for enforcement. Government dowes not consider food safety a priority. Oh, the USDA does inspect plants. But usually the USDA only sends agents in when the general public or a person alerts the dept of violations. Then it takes months if not years for the USDA to send in agents. Yet, all the employees keep getting paid.
Here's a perfect example. My father in law along with several other people on the same road raised broiler chickens for what was then Holly Farms, which was bought by Tyson Foods. Not once in the 25 years he grew these birds did the USDA visit his or anyone else's operation. NOT ONCE...

 

[thereisnospoon]

[
My experience has been pretty much the reverse.

As have the experiences of a great many others, else the stereotyping of government agencies would never have gained such traction.

Private companies have a bottom-line indicator of success... their bottom line.

Government agencies can operate inefficiently (sometimes, grotesquely inefficiently) for decades on end, without fear of closure, because of a guaranteed revenue stream.

And a highly politicized and pro forma Performance Review process.

You know as well as I do that these fundamental differences between the public and private sectors contribute-to and sustain the inefficiency of a great many government agencies.

This is not to say that there are not legions of dedicated public servants within that sector who are largely devoted to their country and service to their countrymen.

But to ignore the grotesque inefficiencies and problematic operations of so many of these agencies is to ignore the 10-ton elephant in the room.

Horseshit.

You know what, my last trip to the DMV to get my license renewed, I was in an out in less than ten minutes. And I had the option of doing it by mail. (I just like my DL to have a recent picture on it.)

Meanwhile, when I went to the Comcast Office next door to the DMV to ask some questions on how to do something, I didn't get nearly the answer I wanted and they had me waiting twice as long.

Frankly, I don't worship "the Bottom LIne" the way you assholes do.

The Bottom LIne meant that when the last company I worked for lost money, it was easier to fire the people who had been their longer because they made more money. They didn't fire the managers who made all the bad decisions that lead them to that point. They fired Joe because even though Joe had seniority on everyone, he had also made $50,000 in medical insurance claims the year before due to an injury.

Yes, i guess the system you praise works great for the 1%ers. The same could be said about pre-Revolutionary France. If you were the First or Second Estates, it was awesome. Until the rabble broke out the Guillotines, anyway.

Shut the fuck up....